399 réponses à ce sujet

[melkobelcha]

What I would like to see is more areas like the Korcari Wilds from DA:O. Imagine that area but twice as big with 4 or 5 caves/ruins/tombs to explore and a small village. Also the first area in the Brecilian Forest let you wander off the path, just need to add some caves/ruins/tombs to explore and maybe a hunters camp.

The game doesn't need to be open like Skyrim, just bigger zones like in Kingdoms of Amalur or Fable 2.

[Wulfram]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Exploration is an unfortunate blight on CRPGs. Well, it's OK in non-story based RPGs, though still pretty silly.

Exploration can be part of the story.  Ultima VII is a perfect example.  The plot opens with a murder mystery that needs to be solved, but the game offers no roadmap telling the player how to solve it.

Following up on clues and leads is one thing.  Randomly wandering the wilderness in the expectation that adventure will happen is another.

[Realmzmaster]

Exploration can be done within DA games. BG1 and BG2 are examples of larger zone exploration. DAO also did it except it was far more linear in its approach. Baldur's Gate the city in BG1 was broken into zones. You could explore the whole city. It does not have to be open world exploration like TES games.

[Sidney]

simfamSP wrote...

I'm going to use Skyrim as another example. Though the plot is weak-ish, it is still pretty solid in how it's laid out. Skyrim is freaking huge, and yet, there is still a narrative to go by. So it is possible. For an even better example: Fallout: New Vegas.

Weak-ish? Sucks is the term you are looking for.

Exploration sucks. That wandering around finding generic dungeons, caves, mines and so on is awful. I hate TES games because 95% of what you find is useless, recycled (all drauger tombs are 100% recycled assets for example), and generic. DAO had about the right level of having an "area" to visit but not being stuck just wandering about hoping to kill something random for no good reason.

[the_one_54321]

Sidney wrote...
DAO had about the right level of having an "area" to visit but not being stuck just wandering about hoping to kill something random for no good reason.

Totally disagree. The Deep Roads were the only part of the game that had any decent exploration. The rest of the game wasn't really exploring.

[Sidney]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Sidney wrote...
DAO had about the right level of having an "area" to visit but not being stuck just wandering about hoping to kill something random for no good reason.

Totally disagree. The Deep Roads were the only part of the game that had any decent exploration. The rest of the game wasn't really exploring.

Deep Roades weren't exploring, they were one long dungeon crawl.

The Brecillian Woods were exploration and then the temple was the dungeon to my mind to explain my thinking on things.

[the_one_54321]

Sidney wrote...
Deep Roades weren't exploring, they were one long dungeon crawl.

The Brecillian Woods were exploration and then the temple was the dungeon to my mind to explain my thinking on things.

The Deep Roads sprawled on and on. It was exploration in the form of a dungeon crawl. The Bracillian Forest might have been decent exploration if it wasn't so small that it took only 20 minutes to see everything.

[Pzykozis]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Sidney wrote...
Deep Roades weren't exploring, they were one long dungeon crawl.

The Brecillian Woods were exploration and then the temple was the dungeon to my mind to explain my thinking on things.

The Deep Roads sprawled on and on. It was exploration in the form of a dungeon crawl. The Bracillian Forest might have been decent exploration if it wasn't so small that it took only 20 minutes to see everything.

I don't know really Deep Roads are great, but they were far too linear for my tastes, there wasn't really that much to do in the way of exploring, no real way to get off the beaten track so to speak.

[MILK FOR THE KHORNE FLAKES]

I DON'T THINK EXPLORATION PLAYS TO THE STRENGTHS OF THE DRAGON AGE GAMES. NOT THAT I MIND EXPLORATION - I DO LOVE ME SOME MORROWIND - BUT THAT I DON'T THINK IT'S THE BEST USE OF RESOURCES IN A GAME DRIVEN BY CHARACTERS, PLOT AND (IN THEORY) TACTICAL PARTY-BASED COMBAT.

[Huntress]

I want If DA3 hero is dalish: To explore more ruins and try to connect to his people's pass,

if Human to find out what it really mean to be a seeker and what does involve to be one, do not forget the praying hours please.. seekers have to pray and show devotion to Andraste or the Maker or is not a true seeker and should be killed by any true seeker .asap.

If mage.. make them less crazy. if let say the dalish hero want to help them, do not turn them into demons right away or to attack the hero if he has being doing quest to help mages, if the hero help templars then it shouldn't talk to them at all.

Add witch hunting quest for seekers, add sumon demons to blood- mages , add elves to the fight because.. really the only job for an city elf is to be a servant or slave.. thats not very appealing.

Add qunaries and how they vision a Thedas, do not forget how the powerful leaders of the qunary people lives.. ( just add any tyrant way of live) Lets show them what power over the masses and you NOT having a voice truly means. Oh people who want to have something, money, house, raise their children without anyone interfering is looked upon as bad and selfish and has no place within the qun.

Modifié par Huntress, 15 avril 2012 - 06:11 .

[Tokion]

DA quests feels like missions, not exploration at all. There is no time to enjoy the environment, or the lack of one in DA2. The sense of adventure is not there.

Remember in BG you can walk to the edge of the map and expect a new map to be opened. You then have to explore the fog of war to find out what lies ahead. Those were great moments of adventures and Dragon Age doesn't have them. Most of the time you were given a mission(with the location), you go to the location knowing the objective lies at the end. Deep Road felt like mission corridors, like Mass Effect 2-3 missions.

Modifié par Tokion, 15 avril 2012 - 06:31 .

[The_11thDoctor]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Kingdoms of Amalur.

Exploration and open-world, but still small and focused enough that the main plot never falls by the wayside.

^ this. KOA did it right.

[coles4971]

Pzykozis wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Sidney wrote...
Deep Roades weren't exploring, they were one long dungeon crawl.

The Brecillian Woods were exploration and then the temple was the dungeon to my mind to explain my thinking on things.

The Deep Roads sprawled on and on. It was exploration in the form of a dungeon crawl. The Bracillian Forest might have been decent exploration if it wasn't so small that it took only 20 minutes to see everything.

I don't know really Deep Roads are great, but they were far too linear for my tastes, there wasn't really that much to do in the way of exploring, no real way to get off the beaten track so to speak.

Well actually you could go to the Aeducan Thaig if you wanted. It's relevant to the Dwarven Noble Origin, but even if you don't play a DN, the Warden can still access it.

I feel like I'm in the minority for feeling this, but I thought the DA:O Deep Roads were awesome - the length of it made it truly feel like an excursion (even if it was only our ragtag group of four, lol) where I'd run out of poultices and have to backtrack to Orzammar (or even elsewhere) to restock and then return to continue the adventure, and the sheer height and size of it just made it feel immense, when you reach Bownammar it's like holy sh*t this place is huge.

I understand Bioware's tight narratives don't allow for random exploration, but all the tunnels in the DR I felt were a reasonable compromise from Bioware and it just added to the vastness of the place. Hell, in the next DA game I'd love to return (as long as there's a valid reason, not just lol let's kill darkspawn) ... it's just a shame that sense of foreboding won't be there anymore, trecking through the tunnels getting deeper in to the darkspawn's habitat to eventually find out how they're made. We'll never get a moment like that again 

*rambling*

[Pzykozis]

coles4971 wrote...

Pzykozis wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Sidney wrote...
Deep Roades weren't exploring, they were one long dungeon crawl.

The Brecillian Woods were exploration and then the temple was the dungeon to my mind to explain my thinking on things.

The Deep Roads sprawled on and on. It was exploration in the form of a dungeon crawl. The Bracillian Forest might have been decent exploration if it wasn't so small that it took only 20 minutes to see everything.

I don't know really Deep Roads are great, but they were far too linear for my tastes, there wasn't really that much to do in the way of exploring, no real way to get off the beaten track so to speak.

Well actually you could go to the Aeducan Thaig if you wanted. It's relevant to the Dwarven Noble Origin, but even if you don't play a DN, the Warden can still access it.

I feel like I'm in the minority for feeling this, but I thought the DA:O Deep Roads were awesome - the length of it made it truly feel like an excursion (even if it was only our ragtag group of four, lol) where I'd run out of poultices and have to backtrack to Orzammar (or even elsewhere) to restock and then return to continue the adventure, and the sheer height and size of it just made it feel immense, when you reach Bownammar it's like holy sh*t this place is huge.

Oh, no I'm talking from exploration point of view there, the Deep Roads and Dwarven stuff in general is my favourite stuff in Origins (Bownammar being the crown of it all), hence the dwarven avatar (despite the fact that my canon is Amell). You have a point with the Aeducan Thaig (sort of forgotten that), though you do get a quest to go rescue the head of.. one of the families depending on how you play the area, Just wish there'd have been far more split offs and better scenery (scenery is probably the biggest reason I have to exploring the in the first place).

[Sidney]

simfamSP wrote...

MILK FOR THE KHORNE FLAKES wrote...

I DON'T THINK EXPLORATION PLAYS TO THE STRENGTHS OF THE DRAGON AGE GAMES. NOT THAT I MIND EXPLORATION - I DO LOVE ME SOME MORROWIND - BUT THAT I DON'T THINK IT'S THE BEST USE OF RESOURCES IN A GAME DRIVEN BY CHARACTERS, PLOT AND (IN THEORY) TACTICAL PARTY-BASED COMBAT.

Exploration does not mean TES. I've said this countless times.

No but you list BG1 as your model and that is basically TES. Same wandering the map looking for something interesting to do. The thing BG1 did right was the concept of clearing the black which when I'm in a big wilderness nothing I like so I know where I've been.

In the end what was great about BG1 wasn't the wandering it was the things you did when you got to where you were going.

Do I want better environemnts? Yes, no kidding. The day Bioware builds a city that feels like a city I'll send them cupcakes. Thing is better environments don't mean wandering about looking for something to do.

[Sidney]

aang001 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Kingdoms of Amalur.

Exploration and open-world, but still small and focused enough that the main plot never falls by the wayside.

^ this. KOA did it right.

I disagree. This is my problem with exploration. You either get the BIG world of TES or FO so the world feels real or you go station to station with Bioware. KOA the world feels insanely small despite being open because you are almost never out of visual range of where you just were,

[deuce985]

What I want? Skyrim exploration

Will I get it? No.

A more realistic expectation? Just a world that is more alive, vibrant and isn't so closed off. The best balance will be to allow a decent amount of exploration without losing story/character development. Open games practically never have good character development or story. I think something like Witcher 2 is a good example of where they can go in DA3. That world is alive and beautiful but still closed off on parts it needed to be. All that without risking losing the NPC interactions.

[Ponendus]

aang001 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Kingdoms of Amalur.

Exploration and open-world, but still small and focused enough that the main plot never falls by the wayside.

^ this. KOA did it right.

I completely agree. This to me is the perfect way to do exporation. Big, but not too big.

The big problem is that the demo area really didn't show this off and so turned alot of people off the game. Once you get past that you get to explore in big expanses, but there are limits to where you can go still. It makes it feel like a big world, without actually having to be so.

For me, games like the Elder Scrolls series are too big. It seems like so much resource is pumped into the world, that everything else falls by the wayside - I have great difficulty playing Elder Scrolls games beyond about 10 hours. It all starts to look the same to me.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Sidney wrote...

Deep Roades weren't exploring, they were one long dungeon crawl.

Sure they were.  It just wasn't free-form exploration.  But you still didn't know what was ahead or how far you had to go or how many routes there were.

That's exploration.

[Maria Caliban]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Sidney wrote...
Deep Roades weren't exploring, they were one long dungeon crawl.

The Brecillian Woods were exploration and then the temple was the dungeon to my mind to explain my thinking on things.

The Deep Roads sprawled on and on. It was exploration in the form of a dungeon crawl. The Bracillian Forest might have been decent exploration if it wasn't so small that it took only 20 minutes to see everything.

Dungeons crawls can have tons of exploration (see: Legend of Grimrock) or hardly any. The vast majority of the Deep Roads was small areas broken up by corridors that you had to go through to get to wherever the plot demanded.

From DA:O

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Sure they were.  It just wasn't free-form exploration.  But you still didn't know what was ahead or how far you had to go or how many routes there were.

That's exploration.

Fine. Then people are asking for free-form exploration.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 16 avril 2012 - 05:46 .