232 réponses à ce sujet

[MegaSovereign]

If it was executed just as poorly, the Dark Energy plot would have been just as bad as the current ending.

[TheShogunOfHarlem]

Evo_9 wrote...

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

This is marginally better. My primary issue is the whole "Humans are more genetically diverse" notion. I hate to bring in actual science but Humanity is actually genetically homogenous due to an ELE that occurred thousands of years ago.

That being said, the starchild's "logic" is about as bad as you can get as far as Mass Effect trilogy endings go.

catalyst logic is sound.

Its the writing that was as bad as you can get.

No it isn't. It's a HUGE prejudiced assumption. One that could have been thrown any organic race in the Galaxy. As I have said before it is also an anti-climactic explanation for the Reapers. Watch Sovereign's speech on Virmire again and tell that you aren't let down by that explanation.

Granted, I was hoping that the Reapers would really show how Unstoppable they really were and that their number would almost literally darken the sky on every world in the Galaxy. 

[Evo_9]

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

Evo_9 wrote...

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

This is marginally better. My primary issue is the whole "Humans are more genetically diverse" notion. I hate to bring in actual science but Humanity is actually genetically homogenous due to an ELE that occurred thousands of years ago.

That being said, the starchild's "logic" is about as bad as you can get as far as Mass Effect trilogy endings go.

catalyst logic is sound.

Its the writing that was as bad as you can get.

No it isn't. It's a HUGE prejudiced assumption. One that could have been thrown any organic race in the Galaxy. As I have said before it is also an anti-climactic explanation for the Reapers. Watch Sovereign's speech on Virmire again and tell that you aren't let down by that explanation.

Granted, I was hoping that the Reapers would really show how Unstoppable they really were and that their number would almost literally darken the sky on every world in the Galaxy. 

Yes its an huge assumption because of bad writing, they should of provided some back story to explain why the catalyst has made this assumption. If AI has wiped out organics 50 times in a row, you can forgive the catalyst in its assumption that it will happen again unless the threat is stopped.

Soverigns speech backs up the catalyst in that it wants to restore order to chaos of organic evolution.

[EHondaMashButton]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

But I suppose this will be ignored just like every other time hard facts about what Drew said are brought up.

You could've saved yourself the trouble and looked one page back to see this has already been posted.  

[xMellowhype]

Drew is an overrated writer IMO. Ending would've sucked regardless.

[BrysonC]

As has been pointed out before, BioWare kind of worked itself into a corner with the Reapers. Was a fun journey but there was little to no hope of ending it satisfactorily...an enemy as overpowered as the Reapers needed a very, VERY convenient last-minute weakness.

[Taritu]

I never understood the great mystery, or why there had to be one. Civilizations rise, they get reaped, and their collective knowledge and DNA is used to upgrade Reapers. Also, if Reapers leave it too long, despite what Sovereign says, some civilization might rise to rival them, and that they don't want. The Protheans put up one hell of a fight, and it's clear that other races have done so too.

There a lots of things they could have done. Maybe the Leviathan of Dis was defeated in a way which could be used by current races, for example. As with the "crucible" that cycle discovered it too late, but it wasn't a magic starchild talking too device (WTF does the crucible do anyway? "enable choices? Huh?).

[Taritu]

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

Evo_9 wrote...

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

This is marginally better. My primary issue is the whole "Humans are more genetically diverse" notion. I hate to bring in actual science but Humanity is actually genetically homogenous due to an ELE that occurred thousands of years ago.

That being said, the starchild's "logic" is about as bad as you can get as far as Mass Effect trilogy endings go.

catalyst logic is sound.

Its the writing that was as bad as you can get.

No it isn't. It's a HUGE prejudiced assumption. One that could have been thrown any organic race in the Galaxy. As I have said before it is also an anti-climactic explanation for the Reapers. Watch Sovereign's speech on Virmire again and tell that you aren't let down by that explanation.

Granted, I was hoping that the Reapers would really show how Unstoppable they really were and that their number would almost literally darken the sky on every world in the Galaxy. 

It took them 300 years to conquer the Protheans.  4 dreadnoughts can take out a dreadnought Reaper.  The Reapers were not invincible, just very very strong.  A magic ending was not required to defeat them, a weakness was, combined with refitting fleets, etc...

[Evo_9]

Taritu wrote...

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

Evo_9 wrote...

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

This is marginally better. My primary issue is the whole "Humans are more genetically diverse" notion. I hate to bring in actual science but Humanity is actually genetically homogenous due to an ELE that occurred thousands of years ago.

That being said, the starchild's "logic" is about as bad as you can get as far as Mass Effect trilogy endings go.

catalyst logic is sound.

Its the writing that was as bad as you can get.

No it isn't. It's a HUGE prejudiced assumption. One that could have been thrown any organic race in the Galaxy. As I have said before it is also an anti-climactic explanation for the Reapers. Watch Sovereign's speech on Virmire again and tell that you aren't let down by that explanation.

Granted, I was hoping that the Reapers would really show how Unstoppable they really were and that their number would almost literally darken the sky on every world in the Galaxy. 

It took them 300 years to conquer the Protheans.  4 dreadnoughts can take out a dreadnought Reaper.  The Reapers were not invincible, just very very strong.  A magic ending was not required to defeat them, a weakness was, combined with refitting fleets, etc...

There are 80 dreadnoughts in total at the council's disposal.

I would love to see how they will be able to conquer THOUSANDS of reapers.

would need a pretty big weakness to make a natural ending beleivable.

It took the reapers 300 years to wipe out the protheans in total. The war was probably lost a few years into the battle and the rest was just a clean up mission to wipe them out.

Modifié par Evo_9, 19 avril 2012 - 02:01 .

[Ghost]

Karpyshyn probably would have messed it up more. I like Walters as lead writer more, ME3 had a better story then the first 2 IMO and Walters also did writing for Garrus Character in ME1.

[Nozybidaj]

Sebbe1337o wrote...
Do you think it would be a better ending?

That's not setting the bar very high.

If we were to assume Drew remained the lead writer, we'd also have to assume ME2 would have been a much different story, possibly one that actually contributed overall to the trilogy, and then the 3rd game would again have been different.  That would have given him a good 60-80 hours of play time to play out the story they started in ME1.  It is a pretty safe assumption it would have turned out significantly better.

[diggisaur]

I think people would have still complained about this ending as well.

I don't quite see the logic in this ending either. YouTube the Sovereign Speech from ME1 and see if either ending makes sense. Neither does to me.

Personally if they had just gone with an organic race created the Reapers and they rebelled and now the wipe out every organic civilization I could have lived with that. Use Dark Matter to kill them - that is the ultimate weapon.

Modifié par diggisaur, 19 avril 2012 - 02:55 .

[TheShogunOfHarlem]

Taritu wrote...

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

Evo_9 wrote...

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

This is marginally better. My primary issue is the whole "Humans are more genetically diverse" notion. I hate to bring in actual science but Humanity is actually genetically homogenous due to an ELE that occurred thousands of years ago.

That being said, the starchild's "logic" is about as bad as you can get as far as Mass Effect trilogy endings go.

catalyst logic is sound.

Its the writing that was as bad as you can get.

No it isn't. It's a HUGE prejudiced assumption. One that could have been thrown any organic race in the Galaxy. As I have said before it is also an anti-climactic explanation for the Reapers. Watch Sovereign's speech on Virmire again and tell that you aren't let down by that explanation.

Granted, I was hoping that the Reapers would really show how Unstoppable they really were and that their number would almost literally darken the sky on every world in the Galaxy. 

It took them 300 years to conquer the Protheans.  4 dreadnoughts can take out a dreadnought Reaper.  The Reapers were not invincible, just very very strong.  A magic ending was not required to defeat them, a weakness was, combined with refitting fleets, etc...

Never stated that they were. Their numbers, tactics/strategies along with their tech advantage gives them a HUGE advantage and nothing more. I honestly think that it shouldn't have ended with the Reaper's defeat but with the Coalition prolonging the War for years. Any ending that wraps up the Reaper storyline too quickly is flawed.

[Deltakarma]

I knew Tali's mission meant something.... shame we will never know......

[Repearized Miranda]

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

Taritu wrote...

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

Evo_9 wrote...

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

This is marginally better. My primary issue is the whole "Humans are more genetically diverse" notion. I hate to bring in actual science but Humanity is actually genetically homogenous due to an ELE that occurred thousands of years ago.

That being said, the starchild's "logic" is about as bad as you can get as far as Mass Effect trilogy endings go.

catalyst logic is sound.

Its the writing that was as bad as you can get.

No it isn't. It's a HUGE prejudiced assumption. One that could have been thrown any organic race in the Galaxy. As I have said before it is also an anti-climactic explanation for the Reapers. Watch Sovereign's speech on Virmire again and tell that you aren't let down by that explanation.

Granted, I was hoping that the Reapers would really show how Unstoppable they really were and that their number would almost literally darken the sky on every world in the Galaxy. 

It took them 300 years to conquer the Protheans.  4 dreadnoughts can take out a dreadnought Reaper.  The Reapers were not invincible, just very very strong.  A magic ending was not required to defeat them, a weakness was, combined with refitting fleets, etc...

Never stated that they were. Their numbers, tactics/strategies along with their tech advantage gives them a HUGE advantage and nothing more. I honestly think that it shouldn't have ended with the Reaper's defeat but with the Coalition prolonging the War for years. Any ending that wraps up the Reaper storyline too quickly is flawed.

Ending? The idea of some superweapon aooearing suddenly is what killed it! I was watching a vid where this guy proposed the Crucible - actually not work, but make us think it did and why not because that did come out of nowhere. Five years is nowhere near as quick as five minutes - most certainly not seconds!

Modifié par Repearized Miranda, 20 avril 2012 - 02:54 .

[Darthlawsuit]

Sebbe1337o wrote...

Dry County wrote...

So the Reapers kill every other advanced civilization because...? They don't like competition? Maybe it would've been better in-game, but that explanation does nothing for me.

Competition? It's to solve the problem with dark energy consuming everything. They need more races (reapers) to have more collected intelligence and knowledge so they can overcome that threat.


What is dark energy then? How did it come to existence? Who knows, if this had been the ending maybe that would've been a good purpose for a new game or a book or something.

Mass Effect 1's codex said that all mass effect fields generate dark energy. The more advanced the civilization the more dark energy they produce.

[Deltakarma]

Also, I think the whole game would have been made completely different...... unless we actually had to get the crucible and fire it at some kind of dark energy vortex and still had skittle endings

[abaris]

BrysonC wrote...
an enemy as overpowered as the Reapers needed a very, VERY convenient last-minute weakness.

But why do they need that?

It's the bunny from the hat concept that seems to be at work here. And that's always bad.

Why do the Reapers need to be defeated in one miracle stroke? I would have been totally content if the alliances and the newfound peace between the races of the galaxy had given them a fighting chance and the ending would have been about averting the immediate threat. And I would have been totally content with learning that the war raged on for centuries to come with a final victory or even a peace treaty in the distant future.

Hell, I would even have swallowed that the newfound alliances made some kind of sense to the Reapes and they didn't see the need to wipe out each and every sentient being.

Modifié par abaris, 20 avril 2012 - 10:39 .

[OlympusMons423]

There was a choice there still in this ending, which is very bleak as well. You could elect to doom all use poor folk on Earth to stop the dark energy....or elect not to, choose life to try something different than what the Reapers had been choosing all along, over all those millions of years. Lets say that was your choice to choose life, hey let us give it a shot Reapers, so scram. Of course they would not let us just make that choice without one hell of a fight. The very thing that makes us such a great hope are the same things that would not allow us to conform to their plan. They don;t really understand us either.

Lets say Shepard would live with this later choice. He/she would know the even greater force coming. It would be a force you could not even reason with. Its would be very heavy on their minds. All the races would have so much work to do after this war, just to get back to where they were. Shepard might try to warn them, urging them to work out something, yet nobody would have the time to listen. Its the opening to the next chapter in the series.

Shep might get their cake, but the never could fully eat it fully, knowing what they do now. We as gamers might get the good ending, but there would be the even bigger more dangerous dark cloud hanging over it.

For us as gamers/story readers...we would not be frustrated with the doom of it all, because there would still be some time to let what we did through out the wholes series actually come to fruit. The fact that it was or was not really just all pointless would still be hanging, and open to be answered for the next game if there were one....

Besides...if in this ending all humans were gone, were would they go with this series?

So with this ending, in the final scene, after a horrific battle was fought...(and I'm about to get mushy here lol).... my male Shepard is standing out in an open field looking up at the stars on a clear night. The worry and torment is etched across his face. The cuts and bruises still have not healed completely....And then a close shot of a three fingered hand touches his back....

Tali:...Still looking for something Shepard?

Shepard:...No I think I found it...(he give a quick look back at her. Her hand slips into his)

Tali:...You worry too much, Shepard?

Shepard:...I told you Tali...(looks at her)...whats coming

Tali:...I dont care Shepard. We're safe now....we're home

Her hand slips from his. She tells him to come in soon, because its a little cold outside. We get a close shot of his eyes, returning back again to scanning the heavens.... Credit begin to roll.

We now get to be on boards like this imagine what we would do and what could possibly be done about it. Maybe (in this case) Shepard gets to live out their life somewhat at peace, or maybe its all too short....that question gets answered in ME4..... (Of course each love interest driven ending or basic ending would be different).

Modifié par OlympusMons423, 20 avril 2012 - 11:17 .

[AkiKishi]

BrysonC wrote...

As has been pointed out before, BioWare kind of worked itself into a corner with the Reapers. Was a fun journey but there was little to no hope of ending it satisfactorily...an enemy as overpowered as the Reapers needed a very, VERY convenient last-minute weakness.

Bioware just never thought it through. It's not that difficult to pace a series where something seems invincible at first but can be beaten in the end. In fact it's almost a JRPG staple when it comes to bad guys.

Take a real world example. The tank in WWI was something no soldier could hope to stand against. In WWII with the invention of shaped charge in built up areas, it's the tanks that are on the defensive.
At the end of ME you have bits of Reaper to play around with and reverse engineer. In ME2 you have Reaper blueprints at the end of the suicide mission.
ME3 ignores all of that in favour of a McGuffin that get's pulled out of no where and a diablos ex machina in the last 10 minutes.
The ground work was already laid out. It's just the Bioware chose to ignore it in favour of something that made no sense.

The best ending for ME3 would have been a partial victory. Take back Earth like it says on the advertising. But leave the Reapers out there for ME4 and a new team.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 20 avril 2012 - 11:38 .

[Medievalist]

Just stumbled upon this tweet by Drew Karpyshyn that's quite clear regarding his attitude towards the Crucible:

did the Crucible exist in the version of the trilogy that you had in mind?

I don't like to comment without having played the game, but the Crucible (as I understand it via spoilers) was new. ‪

https://twitter.com/...035587552940033

[loungeshep]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Oh look, it's this thread again.

This will be fun.



I have a shocker for all of you people thinking that having Drew here would have given us dark energy and not what we got:

You're wrong.

I'll point you to this thread:

http://social.biowar.../index/10328378 

That I took no part in. In the OP, you see a quote from Drew, saying:

The original ending was about the Reapers and the Mass Relays, not dark energy.

That's Drew talking there, folks. Your hero.

But I suppose this will be ignored just like every other time hard facts about what Drew said are brought up.

Gasp!

I think both Drew and Mac did great on the trilogy, I do think Drew's Mass Effect novels were boring, however the plot was good, I just think Mass Effect is more visual than literary.

[Blueprotoss]

 

Sebbe1337o wrote...

Do you think it would be a better ending?

Persoanlly I like the current ending and  the original ending would have been a mixed bag because there would still be a small uproar based on ME3's conclusion with everyone's opinion.

loungeshep wrote...

I think both Drew and Mac did great on the trilogy, I do think Drew's Mass Effect novels were boring, however the plot was good, I just think Mass Effect is more visual than literary.

Yep, Bioware does love to focus on vocals like growls and visuals like eyes to give us more depth to charactters and the overall story. 

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 21 juin 2012 - 03:27 .