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Better Business Bureau finds ME3 falsely advertised by Bioware and EA


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#51
Kilkia123

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honkayjeezus wrote...

"Stephens made her claim by analyzing two of the game's much-distributed marketing tag-lines. The first line she examined was a promise that Mass Effect 3 players will be able to "Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome." Of the line, Stephens says BioWare did not deliver the player the ability to fully craft their own unique experience. "There is no indecision in that statement. It is an absolute," she said. The second marketing line Stephens referenced was, "Along the way, your choices drive powerful outcomes, including relationships with key characters, the fate of entire civilizations, and even radically different ending scenarios."Regarding this statement, Stephens says BioWare's messaging is very subjective. Reading this line, she claims, a player would have a difficult time reaching the conclusion that "the game's outcome is not 'wholly' determined by one's choices."


The thing is, Stephens's conclusions are founded on BioWare marketing statements that are not inherently false at all.

Regarding the bolded lines, we were certainly able to craft our own experiences through the choices we made throughout the game. I chose for Shepard to be a Paragon, I resolved the conflicts between the Krogan and Turians, and I united the Quarians and Geth, etc.. And while I agree that the endings were quite similar aesthetically, we still did have the option of choosing what ending we would get, and the results of our decision were actually 'radically' different. Destroy all synthetics? Control the Reapers? Merge biology with technology? These are radically different outcomes that are similar only in presentation. The term 'unique' as it is seen describing the experiences is limited by contemporary technology in the video game medium. We were never going to have totally unique experiences because the choices we are able to make throughout the game are ultimately limited to what the writers at BioWare place into the story. Furthermore, somebody else, somewhere, is bound to have picked the same choices I did.

The only 'false' statement I can think of is that made by Casey Hudson a while ago (i.e. regarding A, B, and C endings). But this statement was not a part of the Mass Effect 3 advertising and as it stands is just a comment made by an employee of BioWare.

#52
XTR3M3

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BellatrixLugosi wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

AJRimmsey wrote...

"totally agree.

if i buy anything thats not as advertised i return it to store and get a refund.

i dont however keep moaning about it and try to get the manufacturer to tailor it to my needs/wants.

thats the point your brain has just totally rejected,because it involves far less drama"


But if you dont "moan" about it, then how should the creator learn and improve?

You and the others who defend BioWare are using the logic of a pupil that is angry at a teacher for criticising his homework and says "I put much work into it, you must accept it".

Sure you did, I believe that, but it doesnt change the fact your result sucked, and you should accept it if you want to improve.

Stomping your foot and saying that you are right will only result in your next homework failing as well.


Maybe people should stop trying to use Analogies for this sort of thing? 

why would we/they do that? you guys don't get why we don't like the ending so we keep trying to explain it in scenarios you will understand. Do we need to dumb down our analogies so they are easier to understand?

#53
Aesieru

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Aesieru wrote...

YOU WANT A LINK TO THE BBB?!

http://www.bbb.org/b...etter-or-worse/



#54
AJRimmsey

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BellatrixLugosi wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

AJRimmsey wrote...

"totally agree.

if i buy anything thats not as advertised i return it to store and get a refund.

i dont however keep moaning about it and try to get the manufacturer to tailor it to my needs/wants.

thats the point your brain has just totally rejected,because it involves far less drama"


But if you dont "moan" about it, then how should the creator learn and improve?

You and the others who defend BioWare are using the logic of a pupil that is angry at a teacher for criticising his homework and says "I put much work into it, you must accept it".

Sure you did, I believe that, but it doesnt change the fact your result sucked, and you should accept it if you want to improve.

Stomping your foot and saying that you are right will only result in your next homework failing as well.


Maybe people should stop trying to use Analogies for this sort of thing? 


its all they have,it deflects from the real issue,they just dont want people thinking they are moaning for the sake of moaning.

before the dlc announcment they wanted closure
bioware offered closure
now they want new endings,
which they themselves spent a month shouting that they didnt want new endings,all they wanted was closure.

they actually dont want anything other than to feel like they belong to something,no matter what that is and to moan.

right now its analogys,but after that they will start accusing anyone who thinks differently of doing what they are doing,totally ignoring the fact that they themselves were doing that 10 minutes ago.

then comes the word troll,thats when they run out of daft points or analogys

#55
XTR3M3

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Aesieru wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

YOU WANT A LINK TO THE BBB?!

http://www.bbb.org/b...etter-or-worse/


They are only going to try and deflect or ignore you and try and call this a blog even though the person who wrote it is...

Marjorie Stephens at BBB of Northern Indiana

Currently:
Director of Marketplace Services at BBB of
Northern Indiana, Director of Communications at BBB of Northern
Indiana, Director BBB Charitable &...ect

Modifié par XTR3M3, 11 avril 2012 - 07:58 .


#56
kbct

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AJRimmsey wrote...

before the dlc announcment they wanted closure
bioware offered closure


Not true. Go look at the huge thread regarding Ray's statement fifteen days before they announced the DLC for all the evidence you need.

Modifié par kbct, 11 avril 2012 - 07:59 .


#57
Aesieru

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AJRimmsey wrote...

BellatrixLugosi wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

AJRimmsey wrote...

"totally agree.

if i buy anything thats not as advertised i return it to store and get a refund.

i dont however keep moaning about it and try to get the manufacturer to tailor it to my needs/wants.

thats the point your brain has just totally rejected,because it involves far less drama"


But if you dont "moan" about it, then how should the creator learn and improve?

You and the others who defend BioWare are using the logic of a pupil that is angry at a teacher for criticising his homework and says "I put much work into it, you must accept it".

Sure you did, I believe that, but it doesnt change the fact your result sucked, and you should accept it if you want to improve.

Stomping your foot and saying that you are right will only result in your next homework failing as well.


Maybe people should stop trying to use Analogies for this sort of thing? 


its all they have,it deflects from the real issue,they just dont want people thinking they are moaning for the sake of moaning.

before the dlc announcment they wanted closure
bioware offered closure
now they want new endings,
which they themselves spent a month shouting that they didnt want new endings,all they wanted was closure.

they actually dont want anything other than to feel like they belong to something,no matter what that is and to moan.

right now its analogys,but after that they will start accusing anyone who thinks differently of doing what they are doing,totally ignoring the fact that they themselves were doing that 10 minutes ago.

then comes the word troll,thats when they run out of daft points or analogys


Um...

Maybe you never read what the ME movement very specifically said and indicated numerous times over all over the threads, but closure was THE EXACT OPPOSITE of what they wanted.

Because closure would insinuate we can't understand things, as would clarification, and obviously the amount of effort that has been put towards this game by the community very clearly indicates we understand the result, the issue was the plotholes, the false and illegal misadvertising, and our choices not mattering in the ways we were promised, nor our assets.


So... giving us what we DIDN'T want and very clearly said NOT TO DO, is NOT a solution.

#58
AJRimmsey

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[quote]Aesieru wrote...

YOU WANT A LINK TO THE BBB?!

http://www.bbb.org/b...etter-or-worse/[/quote]
[/quote]

what are you stil doing here ?

you lost all credibility with your "i am done with bioware and its games" goodbye thread...and then didnt leave

such melodrama



btw..thats the same blog link :D


any minute i expect someone to start linking fantasy quotes from here and claim its bioware stance...lmao

Modifié par AJRimmsey, 11 avril 2012 - 08:02 .


#59
hex23

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AJRimmsey wrote...

its all they have,it deflects from the real issue,they just dont want people thinking they are moaning for the sake of moaning.

before the dlc announcment they wanted closure
bioware offered closure
now they want new endings,
which they themselves spent a month shouting that they didnt want new endings,all they wanted was closure.

they actually dont want anything other than to feel like they belong to something,no matter what that is and to moan.

right now its analogys,but after that they will start accusing anyone who thinks differently of doing what they are doing,totally ignoring the fact that they themselves were doing that 10 minutes ago.

then comes the word troll,thats when they run out of daft points or analogys


You aren't making any sense. There is no "they"....the stuff you're pointing out that "they" wanted, was wanted by different people at various points since the game came out.

For example, people wanted new endings since the game came out. They also wanted closure. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

#60
BellatrixLugosi

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XTR3M3 wrote...

BellatrixLugosi wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

AJRimmsey wrote...

"totally agree.

if i buy anything thats not as advertised i return it to store and get a refund.

i dont however keep moaning about it and try to get the manufacturer to tailor it to my needs/wants.

thats the point your brain has just totally rejected,because it involves far less drama"


But if you dont "moan" about it, then how should the creator learn and improve?

You and the others who defend BioWare are using the logic of a pupil that is angry at a teacher for criticising his homework and says "I put much work into it, you must accept it".

Sure you did, I believe that, but it doesnt change the fact your result sucked, and you should accept it if you want to improve.

Stomping your foot and saying that you are right will only result in your next homework failing as well.


Maybe people should stop trying to use Analogies for this sort of thing? 

why would we/they do that? you guys don't get why we don't like the ending so we keep trying to explain it in scenarios you will understand. Do we need to dumb down our analogies so they are easier to understand?


Um, you guys use analogies that are not exactly descriptive at all, in fact they are rather base emotional level and are completely subjective only to the ending and not the game as whole.   For all the bashing at Bioware for having a illogical/non creative ending I expect more from "retaker" analogies.

#61
Aesieru

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[quote]AJRimmsey wrote...

[quote]Aesieru wrote...

YOU WANT A LINK TO THE BBB?!

http://www.bbb.org/b...etter-or-worse/[/quote]

what are you stil doing here ?

you lost all credibility with your "i am done with bioware and its games" goodbye thread...and then didnt leave

such melodrama



btw..thats the ame blog link :D

----------------------

I said I wouldn't buy any more, doesn't mean I can't post here, and I never said I wouldn't.

Also you telling me what type of credibility I do or do not have does not actually make it factual.

---

It's a link to the professional BBB blog from their site which can be accessed through their navigation. It was insinuated that this was just the game newssites saying things unofficially, so I provided proof that it was very official.

Modifié par Aesieru, 11 avril 2012 - 08:05 .


#62
hex23

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AJRimmsey wrote...
btw..thats the same blog link :D


It's a blog written by a BBB employee posted on the BBB site. Do you work for EA? I really don't understand how you could be so willfully ignorant.

#63
XTR3M3

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kbct wrote...

AJRimmsey wrote...

before the dlc announcment they wanted closure
bioware offered closure


Not true. Go look at the huge thread regarding Ray's statement fifteen days before they announced the DLC for all the evidence you need.


They certainly won't do that. They will try and deflect and minimize that as well by calling it a "blog by a consumer" or some other troll like tactic like they did the quote and statement on the BBB site this thread is about even though it is proven that the person that wrote it is in the BBB leadership of Indiana.

I now am starting to think they are one of the EA PR plants talked about here...
http://www.cinemable...izon-40885.html

#64
AJRimmsey

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Aesieru wrote...

It's a link to the professional BBB blog from their site which can be accessed through their navigation. It was insinuated that this was just the game newssites saying things unofficially, so I provided proof that it was very official.
[/b]



using insinuated and unoffically as proof its very official in the same sentence ?

are you on meds ? :D

Modifié par AJRimmsey, 11 avril 2012 - 08:09 .


#65
Zhuinden

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AJRimmsey wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

YOU WANT A LINK TO THE BBB?!

http://www.bbb.org/b...etter-or-worse/

what are you stil doing here ?
you lost all credibility with your "i am done with bioware and its games" goodbye thread...and then didnt leave
such melodrama
btw..thats the same blog link :D
any minute i expect someone to start linking fantasy quotes from here and claim its bioware stance...lmao


Notorious troll, I see. There's no point in arguing with someone who willfully shows a facade of ignorance for the schadenfreude.

Modifié par Zhuinden, 11 avril 2012 - 08:09 .


#66
BellatrixLugosi

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(facepalm)

It's.............a games...........ending............

#67
kbct

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hex23 wrote...

AJRimmsey wrote...
btw..thats the same blog link :D


It's a blog written by a BBB employee posted on the BBB site. Do you work for EA? I really don't understand how you could be so willfully ignorant.


I don't even think he analyzed the content of the blog. He just completely dismissed it.

#68
AJRimmsey

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Zhuinden wrote...


Notorious troll, I see. There's no point in arguing with someone who willfully shows a facade of ignorance for the schadenfreude.


ta daaaaaaaaaaaaaa :lol:

#69
Aesieru

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BellatrixLugosi wrote...

(facepalm)

It's.............a games...........ending............


No, it's a precedent for false advertising in games and whether they get it away with it or not.

Modifié par Aesieru, 11 avril 2012 - 08:13 .


#70
Aesieru

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AJRimmsey wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

It's a link to the professional BBB blog from their site which can be accessed through their navigation. It was insinuated that this was just the game newssites saying things unofficially, so I provided proof that it was very official.
[/b]



using insinuated and unoffically as proof its very official in the same sentence ?

are you on meds ? :D


You just butchered the English language, congratulations.

You've also inadvertently and intentionally avoided the subject matter.

THE BBB.ORG SITE OFFICIALLY IS INVESTIGATING BIOWARE.

Modifié par Aesieru, 11 avril 2012 - 08:12 .


#71
XTR3M3

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Zhuinden wrote...

AJRimmsey wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

YOU WANT A LINK TO THE BBB?!

http://www.bbb.org/b...etter-or-worse/

what are you stil doing here ?
you lost all credibility with your "i am done with bioware and its games" goodbye thread...and then didnt leave
such melodrama
btw..thats the same blog link :D
any minute i expect someone to start linking fantasy quotes from here and claim its bioware stance...lmao


Notorious troll, I see. There's no point in arguing with someone who willfully shows a facade of ignorance for the schadenfreude.

notorius troll indeed. You sir, need to look in the mirror for one of those. they posted a link written by an high level BBB employee in the Indiana BBB leadership on BBB site itself after having a REAL troll ask for proof and a link to it. That is not a "consumer blog" that is blog from BBB leadership in Indiana.

EDIT...
is it hard to type those kinds of responses from under the desk of the EA PR dept. leadership?

Modifié par XTR3M3, 11 avril 2012 - 08:14 .


#72
AJRimmsey

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Aesieru wrote...

AJRimmsey wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

It's a link to the professional BBB blog from their site which can be accessed through their navigation. It was insinuated that this was just the game newssites saying things unofficially, so I provided proof that it was very official.
[/b]



using insinuated and unoffically as proof its very official in the same sentence ?

are you on meds ? :D


You just butchered the English language, congratulations.

You've also inadvertently and intentionally avoided the subject matter.

THE BBB.ORG SITE OFFICIALLY IS INVESTIGATING BIOWARE.



THE BBB.ORG SITE OFFICIALLY CLEARED BIOWARE OF FALSE ADVERTISING.

see how easy it is to do that ;)

#73
kbct

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XTR3M3 wrote...

kbct wrote...

AJRimmsey wrote...

before the dlc announcment they wanted closure
bioware offered closure


Not true. Go look at the huge thread regarding Ray's statement fifteen days before they announced the DLC for all the evidence you need.


They certainly won't do that. They will try and deflect and minimize that as well by calling it a "blog by a consumer" or some other troll like tactic like they did the quote and statement on the BBB site this thread is about even though it is proven that the person that wrote it is in the BBB leadership of Indiana.

I now am starting to think they are one of the EA PR plants talked about here...
http://www.cinemable...izon-40885.html


Yeah, I've seen that article and discussed the possibilities. There are a couple posters that always seem to be in the right thread at the right time...

Well, gaming sites have written articles about the blog so it is apparently information worth considering. Now, if we can only get some people here to accept that it is news and stop derailing this thread...

#74
BellatrixLugosi

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Aesieru wrote...

BellatrixLugosi wrote...

(facepalm)

It's.............a games...........ending............


No, it's a precedent for false adveritsing in games and whether they get it away with it or not.


So what? Its just going to happen again.  It happens all the time with developers.  Seriously has anyone here ever......played other games.........or anything?

#75
Aesieru

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AJRimmsey wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

AJRimmsey wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

It's a link to the professional BBB blog from their site which can be accessed through their navigation. It was insinuated that this was just the game newssites saying things unofficially, so I provided proof that it was very official.
[/b]



using insinuated and unoffically as proof its very official in the same sentence ?

are you on meds ? :D


You just butchered the English language, congratulations.

You've also inadvertently and intentionally avoided the subject matter.

THE BBB.ORG SITE OFFICIALLY IS INVESTIGATING BIOWARE.



THE BBB.ORG SITE OFFICIALLY CLEARED BIOWARE OF FALSE ADVERTISING.

see how easy it is to do that ;)


Except they posted about it on the BBB website.

If you can make an official post as a BBB employee say they cleared it, THEN we can talk.

Currently, 1 point for BBB, 0 points for TrollMart.