67 réponses à ce sujet

[Kidd]

There's a difference between aesthetics and graphics, people. While the graphics are likely lower in DA2, I would definitely agree that the aesthetics are better overall (note: overall, cause cuddly darkspawn ain't all that).

Modifié par KiddDaBeauty, 13 avril 2012 - 11:51 .

[eroeru]

Aesthetics are a very personal matter - and even if some knowledge and appreciation of high arts are required to evaluate - I've got that. I'll say DA ][ is very un-artistic. Nothing interesting in it really - same old cartoonish/anime styled over-the-top over-colored heap of drawings.

[keesio74]

eroeru wrote...


The Oghren thing is a prime example of non-cliched and very interesting realistic quest-line, and the character in genera - like him or not, we don't get such a far-out dwarf-character anywhere lately. He was realistic, yet out-of-the-ordinary, and with relevance to the political/cultural situation, it's interesting how he played out. I bet lots of gladiators and warriors and vikings of old times were actually like that.

You do have the right to not like the character, but you must admit, many love him - and that he brings diversity in the game (which ][ clearly lacks - how often do you see people drastically changing around you, as in becoming hysterics , or the other way around?).

Actually I LOVE Oghren. I listed him at the top of a list of DA characters I'd most want to travel with. No one had me laughing my ass off more that Oghren. It's just that he wans't a fascinating character or anything. He was this lewd, loony drunken dwarf when you first meet him and at the end, he's still this lewd, loony drunken dwarf. And for the most part, he always felt like some minor side character. DA2 has a lot more companion side quests (several per act) and it help me get to know each of the companions better.

[keesio74]

astreqwerty wrote...

comparing dao companions with da2 is just a joke......yeah the personal quest were more interesting sometimes but the interactions were non existent

I keep hearing this. Where is all this additional interaction in DA:O? Are you talking about the fact that you can get the conversation options anytime with your companions when you right-click on them vs in DA2 where they just make a comment? If so, that is not a big deal to me. What's the point of being able to "interact" with them when they will say the same thing over and over? Do people want Leliana to tell them the same story of Aveline over and over? Do they like calling Morrigan a selfish b*tch over and over when she refuses to teach the shapeshifted specialization? I like DA2 where if they didn't have anything new or special to say, you couldn't interact with them. You don't waste time trying to see if they have something new to say, it is indicated that they do. I dunno. Maybe it is when they are romancing leliana and people get all excited when their main squeeze tells them "aren't you sweet and attentive" for the 1000th time. Or most likely they want to see the kiss animation over and over. I dunno.

[eroeru]

Ah, the internet. It's so very possible to misunderstand.

But that's a good point. Though I've even an explanation why I enjoyed the half-way get-to-know companions more. It's yet again, realistic. How many people can you claim to know in real life? How many share all of their woes and heart's desires? I for one don't know anyone like that in an absolute sense (and those who seem so, seem very annoying, as Anders and Fenris for example - also, I'd doubt their sincerity, if they were in real life).

Modifié par eroeru, 13 avril 2012 - 02:31 .

[eroeru]

It leaves a sort of bitter understanding with the companion. He/she remains mysterious or untouched in a way. That's really likeable and fascinating.

[Pasquale1234]

keesio74 wrote...

astreqwerty wrote...

comparing dao companions with da2 is just a joke......yeah the personal quest were more interesting sometimes but the interactions were non existent

I keep hearing this. Where is all this additional interaction in DA:O?

I think that perception exists largely because the relationships with DAO companions felt much more organic and real.  You could talk to them anywhere, anytime throughout the entire game, and kiss your LI, which is a much better simulation of real life relationships.  Conversely, talking to DA2 companions felt contrived and gamey - basic conversations were quests for pete's sake!  You had to sit through the loads to visit them in their homes even when they were in your party, and the all-important cinematics would often bring in other characters that were not there when you entered the space and toss your PC into a different location for the conversation.  All of that served as constant reminders that they were programmed game characters, not real people.

Modifié par Pasquale1234, 13 avril 2012 - 02:13 .

[keesio74]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

I think that perception exists largely because the relationships with DAO companions felt much more organic and real.  You could talk to them anywhere, anytime throughout the entire game, and kiss your LI, which is a much better simulation of real life relationships.  Conversely, talking to DA2 companions felt contrived and gamey - basic conversations were quests for pete's sake!  You had to sit through the loads to visit them in their homes even when they were in your party, and the all-important cinematics would often bring in other characters that were not there when you entered the space and toss your PC into a different location for the conversation.  All of that served as constant reminders that they were programmed game characters, not real people.

When you have the same exact conversation over and over verbatim, that is a constant reminder that they were programmed game characters.

And it makes sense that some companions would want to only talk when they are comfortable in their own place. In DA:O, you could be trapped in the Circle Tower trying to stop Uldred but then decide to have some personal discussions about relations while surrounded by abominations. Not the time.

Anyway I'm not saying DA2 nailed this. But I don't think it is the huge dropoff some people are saying. Both systems are imperfect.

Modifié par keesio74, 13 avril 2012 - 02:20 .

[keesio74]

eroeru wrote...

But that's a good point. Though I've even an explanation why I enjoyed the half-way get-to-know companions more. It's yet again, realistic. How many people can you claim to know in real life? How many share all of their woes and heart's desires?

I don;t know that many but I would imagine that I would really get to know the people I am "maxed out" as a friend/rival who I have been travelling with for many many years doing life threatening quests where we constantly save each other's lives. Those people I would imagine that I know really well.

[eroeru]

True. Yet, I for one think I would still be a bit distanced - unlike any of DA ][. A question of preferred personality, I'd guess.

[Pasquale1234]

keesio74 wrote...

When you have the same exact conversation over and over verbatim, that is a constant reminder that they were programmed game characters.

I have found IRL that there are times when people repeat themselves or have the same conversation more than once.  Nevertheless, there is some merit to your argument, but I still don't think it comes across as being nearly as contrived as the conversations in DA2.  I also think that some PCs might take comfort in hearing a story again, etc. - or just being able to reach out and touch base with a companion, if only to hear the sound of their voice.

And it makes sense that some companions would want to only talk when they are comfortable in their own place. In DA:O, you could be trapped in the Circle Tower trying to stop Uldred but then decide to have some personal discussions about relations while surrounded by abominations. Not the time.

That's a rather extreme example, and entirely within the player's control.  Just because you can doesn't mean you should or will - it only means you have greater player agency.

Anyway I'm not saying DA2 nailed this. But I don't think it is the huge dropoff some people are saying. Both systems are imperfect.

I don't think either game nailed it, but DAO's companion conversations felt much more natural and organic to me.  I've seen quite a few other people remark that they found the DAO companions to be much deeper and have more dialogue, and I suspect this may be one of the reasons why.

[smallwhippet]

keesio74 wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...

I think that perception exists largely because the relationships with DAO companions felt much more organic and real.  You could talk to them anywhere, anytime throughout the entire game, and kiss your LI, which is a much better simulation of real life relationships.  Conversely, talking to DA2 companions felt contrived and gamey - basic conversations were quests for pete's sake!  You had to sit through the loads to visit them in their homes even when they were in your party, and the all-important cinematics would often bring in other characters that were not there when you entered the space and toss your PC into a different location for the conversation.  All of that served as constant reminders that they were programmed game characters, not real people.

When you have the same exact conversation over and over verbatim, that is a constant reminder that they were programmed game characters.

And it makes sense that some companions would want to only talk when they are comfortable in their own place. In DA:O, you could be trapped in the Circle Tower trying to stop Uldred but then decide to have some personal discussions about relations while surrounded by abominations. Not the time.

Agree totally! As I mentioned in another thread, I hated the fact that you could accidentally initiate relationship-busting conversations while trying to open a chest!
Like you, I was hugely put off buying tha game by all the poor reviews, but absolutely loved it when I finally took the plunge (with all the usual caveats about re-used environments etc).  I concur with pretty much everything you've written.

Anyway I'm not saying DA2 nailed this. But I don't think it is the huge dropoff some people are saying. Both systems are imperfect.

[smallwhippet]

Gah! Sorry: my screen didn't show up the whole of your quote and I seem to have stuck my reply in the middle of your chunk of text!

[Amycus89]

keesio74 wrote...
one-dimensional was Oghren (drunk dwarf who eventually remains a drunk dwarf but becomes your good buddy). And his companion quest was a joke. Go to bar and help him chat up is old flame and that it?

Make the sacred ashes quest, and the fade quest with Ogren, and then try to say that he is one-dimensional again, I dare you!

[Pasquale1234]

smallwhippet wrote...

Gah! Sorry: my screen didn't show up the whole of your quote and I seem to have stuck my reply in the middle of your chunk of text!

You can edit your post to fix it if you're so inclined. 

[Momiji.mii]

It always pleases me when people who avoided DAII because of the negative buzz picks up the game and enjoys it, despite what flaws may be. Every time there's negative buzz, especially when it grows as intense as I've seen after the launch of DAII (and lately, ME3), it tends to scare off all gamers, even the ones that might actually love the game or at least enjoy it a lot.

So, it's always good to hear when people pick it up and get pleasantly surprised.

[Nashiktal]

eroeru wrote...

Aesthetics are a very personal matter - and even if some knowledge and appreciation of high arts are required to evaluate - I've got that. I'll say DA ][ is very un-artistic. Nothing interesting in it really - same old cartoonish/anime styled over-the-top over-colored heap of drawings.

Nothing interesting? I disagree. I REALLY disagree. I feel that while the new direction does fail in certain regards, it was overall more visually interesting than most of DAO, which was a copy of most generic fantasy settings. (one guy argued that he prefered the low medieval look of DAO, but I argue that is an entirely different setting in ferelden and has little to do with DA2 and kirkwall.)

There was bright vibrant colors, interesting architecture, instantly recognizable armor styles (one that makes me go, hey! that's dragon age!).

I know it comes down to a matter of taste, but I think DA2 was definitely more visually stimulating than origins.

[Uccio]

DA2 colors were too candy like and the graphics were too "clean".

[Davillo]

It's not a bad game but it should have been allot better, it's not a worthy sequel, the game is rushed.... nobody can deny that it feels to short and it got screwed with a ridiculous amount of fed-ex quests and a sub-par ending, the game feels like it's missing an act . Same **** happened to ME:3 they screwed the game in the exact same way with a worthless ending and fed-exing.

I do not know why the hell they could not make the game as rich as the first one but with the new and improved engine and mechanics( Oh I know why becasue they wanted to score a big buck with least amount of work. I'm sure they will do this though for DA:3 this is how they make money. They just improve the gameplay for the sequel but leave everything else like the story and setting half assed and uninspired. Now that they see that we like the new gameplay etc they will give us a game that has both new gameplay and they will try to make the game epic and rich like the first one and that is how we are getting screwed.

Yea DA:2 is a step in right direction but all they gave us here is new engine and game-play which would have been great if the setting was bigger. Damnit they could have made Kirkwall feel as big as it actually is and that would probably fix the game. All the location in kirkwall are tiny and the story suffers from it. Every location in Kirkwall should have been 5x or 10x bigger and more detailed and it would not have been a such a failure of a setting. Even keeping the repeating model dungeons they could have done that there was a couple more of them and the city was just freaking bigger. Right now it feels like I could walk from one end of Kirkwall to the other in 10 minutes.

[Nashiktal]

Ukki wrote...

DA2 colors were too candy like and the graphics were too "clean".

Which is a fine criticism but does not address what I said at the end of my post.

[Koire]

keesio74, you are not alone) I mostly agree with you.

Modifié par Koire, 14 avril 2012 - 09:52 .

[Silva2005]

The limited character interaction is still my biggest disappointment with Awakening and DA2. Yes they did run out things for you to talk about with your companions in Origins but at least you had the option to get to know them better. It killed me with Awakening when they added Anders and Nathaniel but then made it that you could only have a conversation when they wanted to. I would love to see them use the model from Origins in DA3 but improved so you could actually speak to your companions about decisions you've made, the events in the game at the time etc, not just generic stuff about their past. The companion quests were done really well in DA2, would like to see more of those. Would also like to see the relationships in the game not end up being like a married couple where you dont talk anymore! There's limits to how far developers can go with RP in a game but there is definately room for improvement with what they have done so far with DA

[Arppis]

I like the graphical "style" of the game too. Only thing I really wish they would have changed, was the SUPER big weapons.

And characters are pretty awesome imo too.
I also liked the smaller scale plot, I don't always need to save the world or something.

Thou I wish they would change the combat for DA3, atleast a bit. DA:0 and DA2 combat mechanics never were fun.

[Uccio]

Nashiktal wrote...

Ukki wrote...

DA2 colors were too candy like and the graphics were too "clean".

Which is a fine criticism but does not address what I said at the end of my post.

That meaning DA2 was more visually stimulating than DAO? For you maybe, for me it looked like kiddie saturnday morning cartoon.

[keesio74]

Momiji.mii wrote...

It always pleases me when people who avoided DAII because of the negative buzz picks up the game and enjoys it, despite what flaws may be. Every time there's negative buzz, especially when it grows as intense as I've seen after the launch of DAII (and lately, ME3), it tends to scare off all gamers, even the ones that might actually love the game or at least enjoy it a lot.

So, it's always good to hear when people pick it up and get pleasantly surprised.

I know I should judge things for myself instead of listen to all the buzz but I don't have as much free time for games anymore as I did when i was younger. I probably invest in two to three games a year (with three being an unusually high number) so I am very careful about what game to play.

But I learned my lesson