207 réponses à ce sujet

[GorrilaKing]

I will grudgingly accept it if they grant us at least a glimpse of hope after this mess. However, they can shove their "artistic" vision where the sun don't shine. This was not art.
After countless hours of Shepard(us) proving that one can win against all odds, were were suddenly told that you simply can't fight the powerful and can only hope to survive if you become an accomplice in further atrocity.
Thanks, Casey and Mark...what a wonderful, artistic message you sent us.
And you say we " don't get it"? Oh we get it.
The problem is...it's the same message we get blasted with in Real Life day in day out!
The same " the powerful will do what they want, you can work with them and accept their insane logic...or you can die."

Congratulations. You captured the feelings of a generation. Except that no one wants to be forced to feel like that.
If I want to see hope die, I watch the news.
It's called escapism for a reason.

Sorry but this rant has been building up within me for such a long time...

Modifié par GorrilaKing, 11 avril 2012 - 08:05 .

[PaxtonFetel]

Katherine wrote...

Yeah, that quote kills me.

"we didn't know there was such a huge demand for it, to be honest with you."

What? You didn't know that there was a huge demand for our choices to matter, even though that is something you said over and over was going to happen in the game?

sign

This DLC if all of it is simply not needed. I don't understand why they spend time on it

Modifié par PaxtonFetel, 11 avril 2012 - 08:04 .

[Sesshaku]

Katherine wrote...

Yeah, that quote kills me.

"we didn't know there was such a huge demand for it, to be honest with you."

What? You didn't know that there was a huge demand for our choices to matter, even though that is something you said over and over was going to happen in the game?

They're lying to us, or they're really really really, REALLYYYY stupid.

[omntt]

GorrilaKing wrote...

I will grudgingly accept it if they grant us at least a glimpse of hope after this mess. However, they can shove their "artistic" vision where the sun don't shine. This was not art.
After countless hours of Shepard(us) proving that one can win against all odds, were were suddenly told that you simply can't fight the powerful and can only hope to survive if you become an accomplice in further atrocity.
Thanks, Casey and Mark...what a wonderful, artistic message you sent us.
And you say we " don't get it"? Oh we get it.
The problem is...it's the same message we get blasted with in Real Life day in day out!
The same " the powerful will do what they want, you can work with them and accept their insane logic...or you can die."

Congratulations. You captured the feelings of a generation. Except that no one wants to be forced to feel like that.
If I want to see hope die, I watch the news.
It's called escapism for a reason.

Sorry but this rant has been building up within me for such a long time...

You don't have to be sorry for having feelings.

[MaximizedAction]

Sesshaku wrote...

Katherine wrote...

Yeah, that quote kills me.

"we didn't know there was such a huge demand for it, to be honest with you."

What? You didn't know that there was a huge demand for our choices to matter, even though that is something you said over and over was going to happen in the game?

They're lying to us, or they're really really really, REALLYYYY stupid.

My experience in reality matters tells me they're lying.

But that can also stem from two things:
They're withholding something and have something big up their sleeve that'll win back all the fans,
or they just don't care.

Doesn't matter which, EA are leaking stocks. Something must be done soon.

[MidnightRaith]

TookYoCookies wrote...

I srsly will not be surpirsed if the extended cut is just a photoshopped in rachni queen (even if you killed her) during final mission cinematics, Kirahee giving a new "Hold the line" speach (regardless whether or not he survived on virmire) and now in the space battle if you have a certain EMS number you actually see a full reaper explode.

Then after its out and we complain, everyone will just talk about how it was free and scold us to be greatful. I'm trying to be hopeful, that the DLC will be good, and will give some catharsis, but when the lead producer thinks ending the 3rd entry in a trilogy with "lots of speculation" is a good idea it kinda kills any hope of mine that this will come to a logical conclusion. I only hope they dont screw it up any more than they already have.

People have tried to label the retake movement as "entitled gamers", but when you play Mass effect 1 and Mass effect 2 you get spoiled with an incredibly immersive and dynamic narrative. Where almost all the variables are dependent on the actions of the player. Mass effect 3 had this in only the smallest of doses, where as in the prior 2 it was the core of the game.

It was apparently decided that endorphin releasing combat mattered more to players than the narrative of the story, with out addressing players on whether or not this was the case prior to reaching this conclusion. I hope bioware and EA see the mistake theyve made and are willing to back-track.. But every response we've been given from dev's/producers/comm. reps. has been so full of sh*t im not willing to get my hopes up

I am also very reluctant to get excited about this announcement. Sure, I'm going to wait until it's released before I get too critical, but I'm afraid that with everything that's happened, it's just too much to hope that this extended cut will fix the endings in a manner that's reasonably acceptable. I'm very pessimistic regarding anything the ME team does right now and I won't be surprised at all if this only makes things worse. Perhaps this is unfair of me. I am happy that they are at least addressing the issue, however they already proved incapable of following some of their most basic themes in a massive critical error in their writing. Makes me nervous to see if they may try to write another debacle....

I don't know, on one hand, it's fantastic that they're even releasing the Extended Cut. It shows how much the relationship between consumers and developers have come. While I do not believe that customers should ever be deeply involved in the process of making a video game, I do believe that we should be able to set a standard for video games to be compared to. When that standard is not met, then we should be able to express our displeasure, as was successfully implemented here. However, on the other hand, I worry that this advancement may sacrifice the ME series. It really should have never come to this, the possibility that people won't remember ME the series, but rather ME the movement: How BW f'd up and how fans got a response. We've become an example of what happens when the relationship between a developer and the consumer wears down to the breaking point. All because of a desire to be profound. Huzzah. Speculation for everyone.

[GorrilaKing]

If only it were profound. As I said above, it's the same message everyone of us gets to hear (explicitly or implicitly) every single day.

[Faded-Myth]

The news is a week old, but it still pretty much holds true. Make the choices matter at the very least, and show some closure (negative and positive), and I'll be more accommodating to the ending.

[Sc2mashimaro]

Doctor Uburian wrote...

Tony208 wrote...

Sc2mashimaro wrote...

Katherine wrote...

Yeah, that quote kills me.

"we didn't know there was such a huge demand for it, to be honest with you."

What? You didn't know that there was a huge demand for our choices to matter, even though that is something you said over and over was going to happen in the game?

This is an easy quote to blow out of context. Keep in mind that when the ME3 team spoke of multiple endings and reflecting player choices during the lead up to release they meant the various story arcs in the game. What they were unaware of was that we wanted the very end of the game to reflect the evolution of those choices made in ME3 at the ending and the final emotional connection to our squad/friends/LI at the very end. They were figuring that those choices were adequately dealt with by the story arcs leading up to the ending. This seems obvious if you read through the evolution of their responses leading up to release and then post-release as they reacted to the backlash about the endings.

But the ending negated all those resolutions because everyones status is up in the air.

That's why the Stargazer scene MUST be completelly changed 

Everyones status: Every one who we cared about died a LONG time ago 

Are you kiding us bioware? 

Please don't misunderstand what I am saying! I am not saying that the ending did not do all of these things, but I can see from their perspective how they may have thought it would go over one way and then it went the other way. Sometimes when you are the one writing something you can blind yourself to certain implications of what you've written, forget something you wrote earlier, or fail to realize when you have failed to communicate effectively.

The point: this quote sounds more damning than it is. Yeah, if they had been more cognizant they would have realized that the ending would fall flat, but this has more to do with how they already stated that they conceptualized the game not a complete lack of understanding of what fans wanted.

[MaximusRex]

Sc2mashimaro wrote...

Katherine wrote...

Yeah, that quote kills me.

"we didn't know there was such a huge demand for it, to be honest with you."

What? You didn't know that there was a huge demand for our choices to matter, even though that is something you said over and over was going to happen in the game?

This is an easy quote to blow out of context. Keep in mind that when the ME3 team spoke of multiple endings and reflecting player choices during the lead up to release they meant the various story arcs in the game. What they were unaware of was that we wanted the very end of the game to reflect the evolution of those choices made in ME3 at the ending and the final emotional connection to our squad/friends/LI at the very end. They were figuring that those choices were adequately dealt with by the story arcs leading up to the ending. This seems obvious if you read through the evolution of their responses leading up to release and then post-release as they reacted to the backlash about the endings.

Except the whole point of this game is to make these chocies turn into defeating the Reapers, then we get to Earth, and while some of the choices are kind of slightly shown, not all are.  

This game series has been hailed for showing how our choices matter.  This would be like NASA being shocked that people care about space travel.  Especially when people came on these forums all the time to talk about these connections and are even more impressed when they carry across all of the games, stupid little side stuff like the guy trying to get his refund, or Conrad.

[nevar00]

Isn't that what they said in the first ****ing place?

Hearing this starts to get my hopes up that maybe they will actually have some big improvements to the end. The general bad writing, underwhelming final mission, and dues ex Starkid sound like they'll be staying in place... but this would still be a big, big improvement. I'm not getting too optimistic about it, I'll wait and see.

[pjotroos]

A week ago it was clarification, now it's clarification and personalization. 4-5 more weeks and the starkid is retconned out of this galaxy

[zakaryzb]

Norskebanan wrote...

No matter how crappy we may think the ending is, it is an ending to Shepard's journey. It just is. However, Mass Effect was about more than just Shepard's journey; it involves multiple character arcs, subplots, and insignificant moments where the player did nothing but gaze at the scenery in awe at the vastness of the cosmos. The "ending" we got failed to take those last few crucial components into consideration.

Again, Shepard's story may have ended. But what about Wrex's story? What about Zaeed's story? How did these end? I hate to sound like an apologist since I'm one of the most virulent opponents of BioWare's PR in recent weeks, but good ol' Gambs here has a point. Developers were too focused on providing an end to Shepard's story, not our story.

But if you have 4000+ EMS and chose Destroy then you could argue Shepard's story did not end, just his fight with the Reapers.

[count_4]

KeilxKey wrote...

"It wasn't in the game because we didn't know there was such a huge demand for it, to be honest with you."

What the hell? I'm seriously at a loss of words here, reading this. It's like Mercedes claiming they didn't know people actually demanded 4 wheels on their cars...is there even a limit to the loss of reality of some people at BioWare?
I mean, who would've thunk people actually expected some kind of consequences and closure in a game series that's focussed on story, choice and characters, right? FFS.

[Hogge87]

zakaryzb wrote...

But if you have 4000+ EMS and chose Destroy then you could argue Shepard's story did not end, just his fight with the Reapers.

Let's put it like this: would you like to watch a movie about John Connors life after the end of Terminator 2 Or Luke Skywalkers continued life after Star Wars: Return of the Jedi?

An end doesen't NEED to mean the end of the characters life. It can exist to add dramatic and emotional depth. ME3 is actually great because it gives us the opportunity to do both.

[SaladinDheonqar]

count_4 wrote...

KeilxKey wrote...

"It wasn't in the game because we didn't know there was such a huge demand for it, to be honest with you."

What the hell? I'm seriously at a loss of words here, reading this. It's like Mercedes claiming they didn't know people actually demanded 4 wheels on their cars...is there even a limit to the loss of reality of some people at BioWare?
I mean, who would've thunk people actually expected some kind of consequences and closure in a game series that's focussed on story, choice and characters, right? FFS.

That's just PR talk. Of course they bloody knew.

[Hogge87]

count_4 wrote...

KeilxKey wrote...

"It wasn't in the game because we didn't know there was such a huge demand for it, to be honest with you."

What the hell? I'm seriously at a loss of words here, reading this. It's like Mercedes claiming they didn't know people actually demanded 4 wheels on their cars...is there even a limit to the loss of reality of some people at BioWare?
I mean, who would've thunk people actually expected some kind of consequences and closure in a game series that's focussed on story, choice and characters, right? FFS.

I say it's more along the lines of Mercedes not realising that people want their 50 000€ cars to have rust protection. Which happened, lots of E-class Mercedes would have to receive extensive and expensive rust repairs after just 4 years on swedish roads. And Mercedes did EVERYTHING to make sure that their guarantees wouldn't cover it.

Bioware gave an ending which would have been adequate for most games. They just forgot that Mass Effect was a hugely story/character driven franchise.

[zakaryzb]

Hogge87 wrote...

zakaryzb wrote...

But if you have 4000+ EMS and chose Destroy then you could argue Shepard's story did not end, just his fight with the Reapers.

Let's put it like this: would you like to watch a movie about John Connors life after the end of Terminator 2 Or Luke Skywalkers continued life after Star Wars: Return of the Jedi?

An end doesen't NEED to mean the end of the characters life. It can exist to add dramatic and emotional depth. ME3 is actually great because it gives us the opportunity to do both.

No, but the breathng scene just adds to the no closure thing.  It immediatly creates about five unanswered questions and in my opinion doesn't add "dramatic and emotional depth " just a simple "huh?".  If he died, ok obviously that's it.  But showing a little breathing scene teaser just creates more questions than resolutions.  Especially the way it was done.

Modifié par zakaryzb, 11 avril 2012 - 08:44 .

[MidnightRaith]

GorrilaKing wrote...

If only it were profound. As I said above, it's the same message everyone of us gets to hear (explicitly or implicitly) every single day.

If only. It's one of the most frustrating aspects of this whole thing. I've seen profound, Bioware. What you did wasn't it. I wish you'd simply try again instead of trying to force your horrid endings into it, but I suppose you had to draw your own line in the sand. Hopefully said line won't sacrifice a great series....

[sirjimmus86]

I just wondered - specifically at the OP was there something new announced today that we didn't know last week, I have skimmed through all the posts and they basically seem to be echoing the sentiment from PAX that Bioware are not as well versed as one might expect when it comes to PR.

[parrmi22]

Ugh. I can't stand the sight of Liara with Sheploo. Feels weird on multiple levels.

I hope this DLC makes me feel somewhat warmer and fuzzier inside.

[xsdob]

pjotroos wrote...

A week ago it was clarification, now it's clarification and personalization. 4-5 more weeks and the starkid is retconned out of this galaxy

eeyup, looks like it. But my money is on people not noticing or caring about this fact even after they've meet all the demands.

Nothing to do now but for bioware to make the imporvments and let the fans burn themselves out.

[count_4]

Hogge87 wrote...

count_4 wrote...

KeilxKey wrote...

"It wasn't in the game because we didn't know there was such a huge demand for it, to be honest with you."

What the hell? I'm seriously at a loss of words here, reading this. It's like Mercedes claiming they didn't know people actually demanded 4 wheels on their cars...is there even a limit to the loss of reality of some people at BioWare?
I mean, who would've thunk people actually expected some kind of consequences and closure in a game series that's focussed on story, choice and characters, right? FFS.

I say it's more along the lines of Mercedes not realising that people want their 50 000€ cars to have rust protection. Which happened, lots of E-class Mercedes would have to receive extensive and expensive rust repairs after just 4 years on swedish roads. And Mercedes did EVERYTHING to make sure that their guarantees wouldn't cover it.

Except that this might actually have been on purpose. A lot of things have "kill timers" so you buy them anew once the warranty expires. This seems liek a great way to try it with cars.
Besides, they were swedish roads. You're lucky enough to survive their highways under heavy rain even without your car rusting away under you. 

Modifié par count_4, 11 avril 2012 - 09:08 .

[Kanon777]

xsdob wrote...

pjotroos wrote...

A week ago it was clarification, now it's clarification and personalization. 4-5 more weeks and the starkid is retconned out of this galaxy

eeyup, looks like it. But my money is on people not noticing or caring about this fact even after they've meet all the demands.

Nothing to do now but for bioware to make the imporvments and let the fans burn themselves out.

No, personalization was promised on Ray's statement on the day before Pax, they didnt change anything from that...

[Kanon777]

I really dont understand the outrage that Bioware didnt know so many people would want a more clarified ending. If they did it would be in the game... Can someone explain what is controversial about that statement? They are just admiting th obivous...