207 réponses à ce sujet

[Capeo]

"It wasn't in the game because we didn't know there was such a huge demand for it, to be honest with you."

You didn't know people would like to make heads or tails of the endings and, you know, have a clue WTF happened? I really don't get that. You thought slapping together scenes with no cohesion, no explanation and no indication of their effect was going to be satisfying?

[Kanon777]

Capeo wrote...

"It wasn't in the game because we didn't know there was such a huge demand for it, to be honest with you."

You didn't know people would like to make heads or tails of the endings and, you know, have a clue WTF happened? I really don't get that. You thought slapping together scenes with no cohesion, no explanation and no indication of their effect was going to be satisfying?

Its obvious they didnt have a clue, they didnt plan for this to happen... How is this a controversial statement?

[kalerab]

"Many people mentioned that some of the choices they made in the game are not necessarily reflected in the ending scenes"

Some choices? Name one that is.

Anyway as I said before, I shall wait and see although given that my biggest problem with ending is whole existance of Starchild I dont see it that promising. Still, better something than nothing.

[Capeo]

Kanon777 wrote...

Capeo wrote...

"It wasn't in the game because we didn't know there was such a huge demand for it, to be honest with you."

You didn't know people would like to make heads or tails of the endings and, you know, have a clue WTF happened? I really don't get that. You thought slapping together scenes with no cohesion, no explanation and no indication of their effect was going to be satisfying?

Its obvious they didnt have a clue, they didnt plan for this to happen... How is this a controversial statement?

Uh, because they are writers!  Who are supposed to have a clue about their audience and...  basic writing.

[Sc2mashimaro]

MaximusRex wrote...

Sc2mashimaro wrote...

Katherine wrote...

Yeah, that quote kills me.

"we didn't know there was such a huge demand for it, to be honest with you."

What? You didn't know that there was a huge demand for our choices to matter, even though that is something you said over and over was going to happen in the game?

This is an easy quote to blow out of context. Keep in mind that when the ME3 team spoke of multiple endings and reflecting player choices during the lead up to release they meant the various story arcs in the game. What they were unaware of was that we wanted the very end of the game to reflect the evolution of those choices made in ME3 at the ending and the final emotional connection to our squad/friends/LI at the very end. They were figuring that those choices were adequately dealt with by the story arcs leading up to the ending. This seems obvious if you read through the evolution of their responses leading up to release and then post-release as they reacted to the backlash about the endings.

Except the whole point of this game is to make these chocies turn into defeating the Reapers, then we get to Earth, and while some of the choices are kind of slightly shown, not all are.  

This game series has been hailed for showing how our choices matter.  This would be like NASA being shocked that people care about space travel.  Especially when people came on these forums all the time to talk about these connections and are even more impressed when they carry across all of the games, stupid little side stuff like the guy trying to get his refund, or Conrad.

This is exactly what I mean by "out of context". He's not saying they didn't expect people to care about their choices being reflected back at them, he's saying they didn't expect for people to want that so much at the very end of the game. In other words, the "16 endings" they promised and "choices mattering" is more of a "through the whole game" thing rather than culminating at the end of the story. I'm not saying that's how it should have been done or excusing their ignorance of the fact that what we wanted was to have our choices reflected back at the ending of the game (not just throughout), but he's not saying they don't fundamentally get it - he's saying that they didn't realize the ending would come off how it did. In other words: Bioware is viewing it as a failure of execution, not a creative failure. It is impossible to know whether they are off-base in this until after they release the Extended Cut, but based on what Merizan has said, I think they may be correct.

[pharsti]

Ok, i have to just ask this... what does he mean when he says "some of the choices werent reflected in the ending"..... did he really just work on this game? None of my choices were

But, on another note, glad to see theyre doing something at least, see if they can save ME as far as im concerned.

[Sc2mashimaro]

pharsti wrote...

Ok, i have to just ask this... what does he mean when he says "some of the choices werent reflected in the ending"..... did he really just work on this game? None of my choices were

But, on another note, glad to see theyre doing something at least, see if they can save ME as far as im concerned.

How long do you consider the "ending" to be? Starchild forward? Well, then, no - you're right, effectively no choices were reflected. What about from the beginning of the mission on Earth forward? Well, then SOME choices were reflected in dialogue and who was there/not there and whether Cortez died or not.

[Verit]

What really bothers me about his statement that they "didn't know there was a demand for it", is that they created the demand in the first place. It's all nonsense, but they're obviously not going to admit they rushed the ending. I just hope they can fix it.

[Versidious]

Hogge87 wrote...

zakaryzb wrote...

But if you have 4000+ EMS and chose Destroy then you could argue Shepard's story did not end, just his fight with the Reapers.

Let's put it like this: would you like to watch a movie about John Connors life after the end of Terminator 2 Or Luke Skywalkers continued life after Star Wars: Return of the Jedi?

An end doesen't NEED to mean the end of the characters life. It can exist to add dramatic and emotional depth. ME3 is actually great because it gives us the opportunity to do both.

Terminator 3 was terrible, and the Star Wars Extended Universe novels are a mixed bunch.

[davepissedatending]

I say just wait for the dlc becouse we all no bw can make a good game 99% of me3 was Brill so if they sort out the ending nice 1. Don't think I will ever trust anything bioware ever says again tho becouse in the end non of your choices matter anyway

[RolandX9]

Katherine wrote...

Yeah, that quote kills me.

"we didn't know there was such a huge demand for it, to be honest with you."

What? You didn't know that there was a huge demand for our choices to matter, even though that is something you said over and over was going to happen in the game?

...+1. I don't dare say anything else right now.

...well, except I'm now really glad I'm almost to the point of not caring anymore. ...almost. Frack it.

[ArenCordial]

Katherine wrote...

Yeah, that quote kills me.

"we didn't know there was such a huge demand for it, to be honest with you."

What? You didn't know that there was a huge demand for our choices to matter, even though that is something you said over and over was going to happen in the game?

Exactly when the key selling point of not just one game but all three was how the series would adapt to your choices, give me a break.

Honestly can we stop the PR BS?  How hard is it to say 'guys we went with a risky approach to the original ending.   It didn't really work out for most of our fans as intended.   We intend to correct this."

Modifié par ArenCordial, 11 avril 2012 - 10:24 .

[Versidious]

ArenCordial wrote...

Katherine wrote...

Yeah, that quote kills me.

"we didn't know there was such a huge demand for it, to be honest with you."

What? You didn't know that there was a huge demand for our choices to matter, even though that is something you said over and over was going to happen in the game?

Exactly when the key selling point of not just one game but all three was how the series would adapt to your choices, give me a break.

Honestly can we stop the PR BS?  How hard is it to say 'guys we went with a risky approach to the original ending.   It didn't really work out for most of our fans as intended.   We intend to correct this."

[Vasparian]

It's lies.

[GorrilaKing]

ArenCordial wrote...

Katherine wrote...

Yeah, that quote kills me.

"we didn't know there was such a huge demand for it, to be honest with you."

What? You didn't know that there was a huge demand for our choices to matter, even though that is something you said over and over was going to happen in the game?

Exactly when the key selling point of not just one game but all three was how the series would adapt to your choices, give me a break.

Honestly can we stop the PR BS?  How hard is it to say 'guys we went with a risky approach to the original ending.   It didn't really work out for most of our fans as intended.   We intend to correct this."

Because they don't. Because, in their arrogance, they think they can smack this nihilistic, unnecessary cynical crap into our face, call it "art", then call us stupid for not understanding the profoundness of their message (nevermind that it is not profound and that it is the message that is disagreed with since it not only is a massive letdown but also violates everything the games stood for) and then still say they are proud of it and that we merely need more clarification.

They do not intend to change anything and will never apologize for it because they think this was all just fine and dandy and oh so perfect, deep and profound.
Once more with feeling: it wasn't. It's the same thing the world screams into our faces from the moment we wake up each morning: " Nothing you do matters. You cannot fight those more powerful than you. Work with them, live by their rules or be crushed."
I don't need that clarified, folks. And if I ever feel the need for more clarity and closure on that message...I watch the news.

Modifié par GorrilaKing, 11 avril 2012 - 11:00 .

[Hervana]

Protip for BioWare - before you release this extended enhanced and explicatory ending, test it on a representative cross section of experienced and invested customers (say, people from this forum, I'll do it and even waive my fee).
That way you may avoid further Mess Effect. Come to think of it, you could have done that with the whole game, us lot know what we are talking about you know. You can't have thought we didn't want better than ... this.

[Spikko]

Katherine wrote...

Yeah, that quote kills me.

"we didn't know there was such a huge demand for it, to be honest with you."

What? You didn't know that there was a huge demand for our choices to matter, even though that is something you said over and over was going to happen in the game?

I chose to to activate Legion in ME2, I trusted him and had him join my squad. I helped him in his loyalty mission.
I recruited Tali, gained her trust by helping her avoiding being exiled.
I resolved their arguing with diplomacy and they started to trust each other.

In ME3 I saved the admiral and I managed, DUE TO ALL THESE CHOICES, to achieve one of the most satisfying diplomatic victory in a videogame: the peace between Geth and Quarian.

Choices mattered A LOT in this game, truth is that people just wanted to see shepard banging his girlfriend on the normandy after a casualty-less victory against reapers.
This is so sad. Seriously, it is.

[DoomManiac]

well at least its free and every writer is involved now.

[Spikko]

Hervana wrote...

Protip for BioWare - before you release this extended enhanced and explicatory ending, test it on a representative cross section of experienced and invested customers (say, people from this forum, I'll do it and even waive my fee).
That way you may avoid further Mess Effect. Come to think of it, you could have done that with the whole game, us lot know what we are talking about you know. You can't have thought we didn't want better than ... this.

AKA "chosen group of whiners".

[The_Crazy_Hand]

It still doesn't grant us a 4th option, or an epic showdown with Harbinger. EAware respects their "vision" more than their customers, which is sad.

Hold The Wallet.

[Hervana]

Spikko wrote...

Hervana wrote...

Protip for BioWare - before you release this extended enhanced and explicatory ending, test it on a representative cross section of experienced and invested customers (say, people from this forum, I'll do it and even waive my fee).
That way you may avoid further Mess Effect. Come to think of it, you could have done that with the whole game, us lot know what we are talking about you know. You can't have thought we didn't want better than ... this.

AKA "chosen group of whiners".

Hey, I said Representative. That should include the like 1:20 who enjoyed the Tube Fiasco.

[WhiteKnyght]

Katherine wrote...

Yeah, that quote kills me.

"we didn't know there was such a huge demand for it, to be honest with you."

What? You didn't know that there was a huge demand for our choices to matter, even though that is something you said over and over was going to happen in the game?

Makes sense actually. People were finding excuses to b!tch about Mass Effect for awhile before ME3 came out.

First it was the errors in Deception followed by a lot of nitpickiness and bashing the writer's style of storytelling simply because it differs from Drew Karpyshyn.

Second, it was over the existence of the Crucible and its purpose when the beta got leaked and someone datamined for the scripts. I recall seeing someone cancelling his pre-order simply because someone told him that the Crucible destroys the Reapers. Which is a single detail about one of the endings, not all.

Third, people were complaining a lot(technically still are) over the fact that ME3 had a Day One DLC, even though it's been made clear that the DLC was made after they finished ME3 and sent it off for production. Just because it got done in time for the release and they included a code in the Collector's Edition, people assumed it was content from the game that got cut out as a way to make money.

Fourth, someone with the Space Edition leaked the endings and described them in a very poor light, which ignited most of the aggression that's going on now. This person also exaggerated them and said that all technology would be destroyed and that the races would go 200 years without any spaceflight. A clear lie now.

Now, ever since ME3 came out, people have been bashing the ending, bashing Bioware, coming up with theories, and have been wasting ridiculous amounts of money on baked goods and now billboard space. And in doing so, have provoked Bioware into making this extended cut at the cost of delaying other, more important DLCs.

If these fans aren't satisfied after this, Bioware should tell them to STHU and move on to some other game series instead of ruining it for everyone else.

[GorrilaKing]

Spikko wrote...

Katherine wrote...

Yeah, that quote kills me.

"we didn't know there was such a huge demand for it, to be honest with you."

What? You didn't know that there was a huge demand for our choices to matter, even though that is something you said over and over was going to happen in the game?

I chose to to activate Legion in ME2, I trusted him and had him join my squad. I helped him in his loyalty mission.
I recruited Tali, gained her trust by helping her avoiding being exiled.
I resolved their arguing with diplomacy and they started to trust each other.

In ME3 I saved the admiral and I managed, DUE TO ALL THESE CHOICES, to achieve one of the most satisfying diplomatic victory in a videogame: the peace between Geth and Quarian.

Choices mattered A LOT in this game, truth is that people just wanted to see shepard banging his girlfriend on the normandy after a casualty-less victory against reapers.
This is so sad. Seriously, it is.

Then let us be glad that you fully, truly understood what people really want. I never thought it was that simple...and here I was, believing that I truly wanted a better, more hopeful message in the end. Thank you for explaining my true motivation to me.
Hey, since you have now proven that you can read minds...what were Casey and mark thinking when they wrote this BS?

[xMellowhype]

There's no possible way they can integrate even one of our choices to impact the ending. I'm calling BS. Don't fall for the lies again.

[The_Crazy_Hand]

xMellowhype wrote...

There's no possible way they can integrate even one of our choices to impact the ending. I'm calling BS. Don't fall for the lies again.

I dunno about that, but it's certainly still a cop out to get us to accept their "vision" instead of giving the customers what they want.