94 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKristoffski]

I know this is a fantasy based game (a dark fantasy game at that), but I have somewhat of a feeling that throughout my 100+ hours of gaming of dragon age origins and Dragon age 2 (and all its DLC's) that the 'chantrys' god may not even exist, I understand the story between Andraste and her 'meeting and speaking to the maker' and such but I feel the maker or god if you wish does not exist in this game,well maybe sort of.

--Let me explain with a fine example of our own faiths and religion (please note these are my opinions, and I dont mean to offend peoples beleifs or faiths whatsoever), As we all know there are 4 main religious groups in our society these are christianity, Juedaism, Muslamic faith and Catholic, but the list could go on. My point is all these faith have a monotheistic, view in such that there is only one god, just like the chantry's one maker, and like these faiths in our society are all taught and preached there is one god, etc etc, just like the chantry again,

But a few thousand years back, people and society had a Polytheistic view, in were there were/are many gods, like the ancient greeks with Odin and Zeus to name a few,  and maybe this was true in the law of dragon age (havent digged that far through the codex), but if this was true, then maybe the 'Maker' in game is actually not the 'god people are lead to presume' let me explain:

Say christians preach that their god is all loving and all forgiving, this leads to people questioning then why would their god let people die of starvation, and earthquakes etc etc, --and people coming to the conclusion that there couldnt possible be a god, purely because of the monotheistic view, but what IF, the polytheistic view on gods is actually true, and that christians arent worshipping/folowing the one and only god they are lead to presume, but just one 'of' many gods, and the same for Muslims and catholics, then maybe the same could be said about the chantry

For instance the fade, is a world were spirits inhabit and such, what if Andraste actually was in the presence of a god, but just one, when there are many other gods, but that one god told her to preach that its the only one and true god etc, Im trying to imply that in the law of dragon age, there must be many gods and not just one. I have come to the conclusion that the maker may not even exist at all, or may once have, but people have lost contact with that god etc, I dont really know where Im trying to go with this as Im loosing, and distracting myself on severall topics but I just thought I'd share whats going on in my head, or that Andraste just had a dream like Leliana, I dont know faith and religion are very confusing in society and in this game

[benlg]

Then why did andrastes ashes heal Eamon if not touched by the maker.

[esper]

Lyrium... magic... seems like the two most obvious culprits. In a place where a spirit was and we were fighting ghostly vision of ourself, I am far more likely to blame lyrium, spirits and magic over anything. (In fact lyrium veins are mentioned being there...).

[TheKristoffski]

benlg wrote...

Then why did andrastes ashes heal Eamon if not touched by the maker.

Thats a very good point, Im just unsure if the maker is the 'one true god', Im just implying there could be other gods and such, or maybe Andraste really did meet the maker who knows

[Fox In The Box]

The relationship that the people of Thedas have to their respective gods is supposed to mimic the one we have in the real world. Whether or not their deities actually exist is not a question that the developers are going to give a definite answer to one way or the other.

Modifié par Fox In The Box, 11 avril 2012 - 10:47 .

[TheShadowWolf911]

considering the Legacy DLC and the implications it presents, which include the architect.........i'm going on a limb and saying MAYBE.

[akashacatbat]

I am holding out hope that Sandal is the Maker.

[Sylvius the Mad]

benlg wrote...

Then why did andrastes ashes heal Eamon if not touched by the maker.

In a world with magic in it, almost any explanation is credible.

Perhaps a demon took that opportunity to heal Eamon, hoping to wheedle its way into his mind.

Perhaps the shared belief that the ashes would work manifested a yet unknown magical force.

There are many ways in which Eamon's recovery could be explained without the need for a Maker.

[Archer]

TheShadowWolf911 wrote...

considering the Legacy DLC and the implications it presents, which include the architect.........i'm going on a limb and saying MAYBE.

I was going to use that one

Just to add/expand on it, we also have the tale of the golden city being corrupted. The Black City can be seen in the fade.

I would be tempted to lean towards a yes

[akashacatbat]

Well, just because you can see the Black City doesn't mean that the Chantry's explanation is the right one.

Ancient Greeks and Norse used to see lightning in the sky and thought it was created by gods. We still see lightning, but no one blames the gods anymore.

[whykikyouwhy]

Somewhere in my satchel of speculation is the theory that the "Maker" was a means to move from polytheism to monotheism, and focus the Thedan people under a united form of worship. And if the stories of the Maker imprisoning the Old Gods are to be taken into account, they might be allegorical. Because what I suspect is that the Maker is actually a piñata - filled with all sorts of Old God-shaped candy.

And then, when you look at certain prophecies that are uttered in-game (but cannot be mentioned specifically here due to spoilers), someone might be swinging a bat at that piñata some time in the future.

[Maria Caliban]

Yes, the Maker is real... but he's not what the Chantry thinks he is. Just like the Old Gods weren't what the Tevinter Empire thought they were.

We might even be meeting him in DA III. Look at this concept art:

[Davillo]

Wow what the hell is that is looks totally awesome, this thing reminds me of the {Idol} from the deep-roads slightly maybe because of the red lyrium strings or whatever it is. Where did ya get this pic are there any more concept arts ?

[Archer]

akashacatbat wrote...

Well, just because you can see the Black City doesn't mean that the Chantry's explanation is the right one.

Ancient Greeks and Norse used to see lightning in the sky and thought it was created by gods. We still see lightning, but no one blames the gods anymore.

I do. Everytime i see a thunderstorm i think to myself, "looks like Thors having a bad hair day again"

But to be serious, its a good point you make. Im using the Black City argument with regard to Corypheus in Legacy. The fact that he is a Tevinter Magister and he references the Black City.

That said however, the counter argument could be made that just because he is a Tevinter Magister who went there, does it necesarily mean the Black City was the home of the Maker?

Tip my hat to Bioware for good writing, this could actually be as interesting as debating real world religion!

[PinkShoes]

I dunno if the maker is real or not but i would really like it if the maker was like "I love my creations so much i will give them a gift but a gift not everyone will have but i will help everyone! MAGIC!"

Its sorta like if all those uber religous people who hate gays found out God was actually gay lol

[TheKristoffski]

akashacatbat wrote...

I am holding out hope that Sandal is the Maker.

Im praying to god he is lol, maybe he was 'touched' by the maker would explain a LOT of things

[TheKristoffski]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Yes, the Maker is real... but he's not what the Chantry thinks he is. Just like the Old Gods weren't what the Tevinter Empire thought they were.

We might even be meeting him in DA III. Look at this concept art:

This made me Nerdgasm awesome

[Withidread]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Yes, the Maker is real... but he's not what the Chantry thinks he is. Just like the Old Gods weren't what the Tevinter Empire thought they were.

We might even be meeting him in DA III. Look at this concept art:

Didn't this end up being an April Fool's joke by another artist unrelated to Bioware?

[Eternal Phoenix]

PinkShoes wrote...

I dunno if the maker is real or not but i would really like it if the maker was like "I love my creations so much i will give them a gift but a gift not everyone will have but i will help everyone! MAGIC!"

Its sorta like if all those uber religous people who hate gays found out God was actually gay lol

Unlikely since God is genderless according to the Abrahamic religions.

I don't think we'd ever meet The Maker in Dragon Age. I think Bioware want to make religion in DA like religion in the real world where it's debated upon. You'll never meet any gods while exploring the DA universe and yet there will be evidences here and there saying different things.

Concerning the Ashes:

We can't say that they worked because of Andraste having some sort of divine power within her corpse due to The Maker blessing her. For all we know she could have been a mage (which would be ironic) and a very powerful one at that. I don't think this would make sense story-wise since there's no mention of her ever using magic but for all we know she may have used it out of the public eye?

I know Oghren (I think it's him) mentions that Lyrium is within the dungeon that contains Andraste's ashes but we don't see any Lyrium and Oghren's a drunk. I hardly think he's the man to go to concerning what's real or not since he imagines schleets jumping up and attacking him.

So concerning the Ashes: maybe Oghren's right but no evidence supports that he is. Morrigan doesn't mention Lyrium in the dungeon and neither does Wayne Ronney and they are both mages. You'd think they'd sense this stuff.

I think it's more likely that Andraste was blessed by The Maker and the ashes working are proof for that. Mages tried to use magic to heal Arl Demon and it didn't work and there's really no proof that Andraste was a mage and I highly doubt Lyrium could restore a man to life from near death when magic didn't work.

Andraste was special there's no doubt there.

Concerning The Maker:

I haven't played that Legacy DLC but I hear the end boss speaks about The Maker and light and then darkness coming which seems to agree with The Chantry's story of those transgendered mages breaking into The Golden City to try and beat The Maker up but he saw them coming and GTFO of there. The end boss is also a darkspawn isn't he? This once again agrees with The Chantry's story of how the darkspawn orginated.

Some say that because the demons say The Maker don't exist that this is proof. It's not proof. Demons are liars and when you ask Justice about The Maker or the great beyond he says that he doesn't know. The truth is that demons don't know either but like trying to decieve humans or give them doubts and thus say The Maker doesn't exist.

The Maker is clearly based off of God of the Abrahamic religions but they've given The Maker a gender and made him totally different. The Bible teaches that God is a being of love but also of justice and he will not hesitate to bring down the hammer so to speak. The Maker on the otherhand is a coward who refuses to act and when his creations started being naughty, he didn't set them rules or send a new prophet to try and shepard them, he GTFO of the universe and is having an affair with another universe.

Plus he's having sex with Andraste which is his own creation. He married her didn't he?

[Eternal Phoenix]

She is called the Bride of The Maker.

[PsychoBlonde]

 Define "real" in this context.

Is there an omnipotent superbeing who created the universe of DA, then got pissed off not once, not twice, but THREE TIMES when his creation ws EXACTLY WHAT HE MADE IT TO BE and left in a huff?  Who knows.  Personally, I'd take anyone or thing making this claim with a grain of salt the size of the Astrodome.

Is there some dude out there who calls himself/will answer to "Maker"?  Prolly.

[PsychoBlonde]

Elton John is dead wrote...

She is called the Bride of The Maker.

The Catholic Church is referred to as the Bride of Christ.  Mental image left up to you.