151 réponses à ce sujet

[liggy002]

sonicphoto wrote...

I agree 100% with your post. Javik himself said it very CLEARLY, they had the crucible up and ready, but indoctrinated soldiers tried to control them and ruined it all. That's the big detail that convinces me of the theory. And yes I believe indoctrination starts with the star child, they haven't indoctrinated him yet, they are trying to, it is up to you if you get indoctrinated or not. Harbinger thought he killed him and left, but later on it seems he senses him there at the citadel and used indoctrination because he can't get near where shepard is at the citadel. Also, synthethics are NEVER shown dying, we don't see geth fall or EDI or anything.

So, the indoctrinated soldiers (and therefore the Reapers)  KNEW ABOUT THE CRUCIBLE.  And they didn't destroy it?  Why not?  Because they allowed the races to continue building it.  There is something very fishy about the Crucible. 

[Asharad Hett]

Orange Tee wrote...
has anyone truly considered that none of it was a dream but still indoctrination?

Yes I have, and I firmly believe it to be their intent.

[Wabajakka]

liggy002 wrote...

Orange Tee wrote...

IDT without disregarding the entire ending as a dream makes a lot more sense, it is more likely to be explained in EC DLC this way and here's my thoughts on why.

No, the scene where Shepard wakes up looks too similar to London.  Analyze the scene closely, then compare it to what you see when running to the beam,   and it will become clear that it is highly likely this scene is London.

Well, it could very well be London considering the stone rubble. Although all of those metal bits in that same scene look too much like the Citadel, especially the part of the Citadel where Shepard was. So he is on the Citadel, but the Citadel has crashed into Earth.

liggy002 wrote...

So, the indoctrinated soldiers (and therefore the Reapers)  KNEW ABOUT THE CRUCIBLE.  And they didn't destroy it?  Why not?  Because they allowed the races to continue building it.  There is something very fishy about the Crucible.  

Not necessarily, because previous cycles did not actually finish it and never actually got the Crucible to the Citadel as far as we know. We also know how arrogant the Reapers are and even if they did know, they'd find a way to sabatoge it into their favor instead of just destroying it, thus the indoc'd agents believing control and synthesis. Also, the Crucible gets destroyed if you take too long during the RGB choice, if the Starkid actually had control of the Reapers he wouldn't let that happen.

Modifié par Orange Tee, 20 avril 2012 - 05:49 .

[Wabajakka]

 

Asharad Hett wrote...

Orange Tee wrote...
has anyone truly considered that none of it was a dream but still indoctrination? 

Yes I have, and I firmly believe it to be their intent.

Awesome.

Modifié par Orange Tee, 20 avril 2012 - 05:49 .

[Wabajakka]

*Update*

Just added quite a bit to this. Take some time to read it. Much appreciated.

Going into some details on what we could likely see in the future of Mass Effect in terms of post-ending DLC or another game considering this version of the theory. Plus a quote from the first Matrix that I think is very important. Mac Walters specifically referenced the first Matrix ending in his ending writing notes. Tell me what you think!

Hope I can restore some realistic hopes into ME here.

Modifié par Orange Tee, 23 avril 2012 - 04:51 .

[draken-heart]

this is all fan fiction anyways, so both sides should get what they want in their post-game head canon.

not saying i want the endings as is, but i do not want people fussing over it anymore.

[Wabajakka]

draken-heart wrote...

this is all fan fiction anyways, so both sides should get what they want in their post-game head canon.

not saying i want the endings as is, but i do not want people fussing over it anymore.

Not exactly. I would only truly consider any of this or the original IDT to be true if it actually happens, I'm just attempting to help people make sense of it all. I'm not concluding that this is in fact what happens, just my thoughts on what happens and why it makes and hopefully is what we're getting the EC DLC and possibly post-ending DLC as I mentioned in the main post.

I can understand you not wanting people to fuss over the endings though. It has effected what is a great game a little too much, but I'm trying to be constructive as possible about this and trying to make sense of the nonsensical, if that makes sense lmao.

[draken-heart]

all the original Indoctrination Theory and this one is is just people's head canon they want to be canon.
some people like the endings as the are, forget about it and use this theory for what you want to happen in your post-game head-canon.

[Wabajakka]

draken-heart wrote...

all the original Indoctrination Theory and this one is is just people's head canon they want to be canon.
some people like the endings as the are, forget about it and use this theory for what you want to happen in your post-game head-canon.

I think you're missing the point really... I'll say again, I'm not taking this as fact and won't if proven wrong by the writers in Extended Cut, but this and the original IDT are just people trying to make sense of an ending that simply just did not make any. It's undeniably clear that Bioware made this ending ambiguous on purpose with no closure. No person can deny that the ending lacks closure of any kind and also disregards previous themes and plot points of the series, but who's to say BW didn't do that on purpose? That's what these "theories" are basically saying. Whether people liked the ending or not is irrelevant. There is something else we aren't being told in these endings and it is very clear that is the case and I'm just one of the people contibuting to theorizing what is to come next. 

Once Extended Cut rolls around, I'm sure it is what will confirm or deny any sort of theory people like me may have or maybe it won't confirm anything and this in fact will become head cannon, then in that case you would be right, but as of right now that's just not true, we'll just have to wait and see.

[Makrys]

I like it. Very plausible. But still there are inconsistencies. The whole scene with TIM and Anderson. All of that was CLEARLY indoctrination. And I see no reason why going up to the catalyst would change anything. Its all very confusing, but I like you tried to explain it in a different light.

[Skyrix]

Orange Tee wrote...

Apperently it's official the Shep is on the Citadel... I know I thought it was Earth too, but whatever.

If that's the case, where it's not all just a dream and Shepard survives, it's just more bad storytelling. First he gets charred to a crisp, bleeding from open wounds and barely able to walk, and collapses from his injuries. Then he gets up, shuffles over to the tube and shoots it, causing bursts of flame to shoot out towards him and scorch him even more. Thinking he needs to get closer because his aim is a little off or something, he runs right into it as he continues to shoot, and is totally consumed by fire. Then we cut to an exterior shot of the Citadel and we see Shepard at ground zero of an enormous explosion that's at least a few miles wide. An explosion so powerful that it rips the citadel to pieces. Shepard's supposed to have survived all that? If that's the story, it's just lame. He's not Superman. It took a lot less for him to die in Mass Effect 2; he didn't even get shot, he just fell to a planet from orbit. Which, if he's somehow still on what remains of the citidel, is exactly what's going to happen next if he doesn't get out of there. If it turns out he wakes up on Earth after having fallen there from the wreckage of the Citadel in orbit, I'm going to laugh.

[Wabajakka]

Skyrix wrote...

Orange Tee wrote...

Apperently it's official the Shep is on the Citadel... I know I thought it was Earth too, but whatever.

If that's the case, where it's not all just a dream and Shepard survives, it's just more bad storytelling. First he gets charred to a crisp, bleeding from open wounds and barely able to walk, and collapses from his injuries. Then he gets up, shuffles over to the tube and shoots it, causing bursts of flame to shoot out towards him and scorch him even more. Thinking he needs to get closer because his aim is a little off or something, he runs right into it as he continues to shoot, and is totally consumed by fire. Then we cut to an exterior shot of the Citadel and we see Shepard at ground zero of an enormous explosion that's at least a few miles wide. An explosion so powerful that it rips the citadel to pieces. Shepard's supposed to have survived all that? If that's the story, it's just lame. He's not Superman. It took a lot less for him to die in Mass Effect 2; he didn't even get shot, he just fell to a planet from orbit. Which, if he's somehow still on what remains of the citidel, is exactly what's going to happen next if he doesn't get out of there. If it turns out he wakes up on Earth after having fallen there from the wreckage of the Citadel in orbit, I'm going to laugh.

Well from what I know, the Citadel has emergency lockdown procedures for that kind of situation, which is why BW said not to expect 100% casualties of the people who were on the Citadel, so Shepard also could have been saved by the same thing and Anderson could very well be alive.

Modifié par Orange Tee, 24 avril 2012 - 05:03 .

[macrocarl]

Orange Tee wrote...

 

Asharad Hett wrote...

Orange Tee wrote...
has anyone truly considered that none of it was a dream but still indoctrination? 

Yes I have, and I firmly believe it to be their intent.

Awesome.

Yeah I was thinking this too. I've posted this as a possibility. Also, I think on e of the Devs said on Twitter that parts of the Citadel have their own shielding and survuved. One of those areas could be where Shep was making reentry back to earth plausible. Anyway, I guess we'll wait and see, but your post is very very close to one of my takes  on it (I have 3 possible theories total=])

[Wabajakka]

macrocarl wrote...

Orange Tee wrote...

 

Asharad Hett wrote...

Orange Tee wrote...
has anyone truly considered that none of it was a dream but still indoctrination? 

Yes I have, and I firmly believe it to be their intent.

Awesome.

Yeah I was thinking this too. I've posted this as a possibility. Also, I think on e of the Devs said on Twitter that parts of the Citadel have their own shielding and survuved. One of those areas could be where Shep was making reentry back to earth plausible. Anyway, I guess we'll wait and see, but your post is very very close to one of my takes  on it (I have 3 possible theories total=])

Oh nice. You want to link me too them I'd love to see them! Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this, I just didn't see much of it in these forums. Mainly just "Grr the ending sucks" or "IT Theory FTW!" etc...

[Wabajakka]

Makrys wrote...

I like it. Very plausible. But still there are inconsistencies. The whole scene with TIM and Anderson. All of that was CLEARLY indoctrination. And I see no reason why going up to the catalyst would change anything. Its all very confusing, but I like you tried to explain it in a different light.

Glad you like it.

I agree though. The second hardest to explain part of it all is the Anderson and TIM scene. Not so much TIM, but Anderson is just so awkward throughout that entire scene, I can't explain really how he's being controlled other than there being TWO indoc'd agents in the same room... Giving the Reapers the ability to control Anderson physically through Shep and TIM, there's no way TIM has the ability to control Anderson or Shepard, its entirely the Reapers doing. In fact, they have even more powerful control through TIM considering he has heavily implanted so much Reaper tech into himself, he's pretty much a damn Reaper signal beacon lol.

[Sublyminal]

Makes a lot of sense, but then again I've always thought that if you thought logically, everyone would come to this conclusion.

[Vorodill]

See if you could work with this theory too.

http://social.biowar...ndex/11264403/1

Maybe that would help you.

[Wabajakka]

Vorodill wrote...

See if you could work with this theory too.

http://social.biowar...ndex/11264403/1

Maybe that would help you.

Thanks for linking me to that.

That theory does make some good points but... If I'm not mistaken Cerberus was founded by three people that were named in a ME book if I remember correctly, TIM being one of them. So Hackett being at the head is not possible I don't think.

Although, that does not disregard Hackett being apart of Cerberus, because Cerberus is split up into 3 different cells. I don't think it's specified what these cells are, but I'd assume they'd have to do with the military (Hackett), politics (Udina) and science (Miranda? or her dad?)... Just a thought.

I do have to disagree with some of the Crucible theories in there though. Because it implies that the Catalyst really did control the Reapers and actually did exist.

Modifié par Orange Tee, 26 avril 2012 - 07:41 .

[dielveio]

There is something ODD at the breathe scene:
On the right side of the scene there is something that looks like a tube or a drill.
We see similars in the rachni mission, geth dreadnought and whatever place we have reaper tech.

[Wabajakka]

dielveio wrote...

There is something ODD at the breathe scene:
On the right side of the scene there is something that looks like a tube or a drill.
We see similars in the rachni mission, geth dreadnought and whatever place we have reaper tech.

Ya it's the same tubes we see on the Citadel as far as I know. Enough proof to say that Shep is on the Citadel, but the Citadel could have very well crashed onto Earth considering all that stone rubble around him too.

[Wabajakka]

 Just made another sizeable update to this!

Thanks to a reddit post and another BSN user I thought it would be important enough to add. Finally being able to understand wtf happened to Anderson! Take a look!

[Mendelevosa]

[Wabajakka]

I feel like that's the case with a lot of people on this thread lol. So many views yet so few replies in comparison.

Then some of the people that do reply just miss the point I'm trying to make.

Doubt that'd be the case if a few people actually took their time to do so, because this **** makes a lot of sense.

Thanks anyway though. Made me lol.

Modifié par Orange Tee, 03 mai 2012 - 04:00 .

[Vakariaan]

It all makes sense logically to me.

I really hope they've got some really amazing twist like IDT or the Manipulation Theory coming for us. Ballsy, but brilliant IMHO. I honestly do not believe that the writers would fudge up this badly considering the scope of the story. They're very, very detail oriented people. Patrick Weekes recently spoke on his twitter about the existence of a style manual for writing which delineates capitalization of words, hyphenation, etc. I guess people are pessimistic about Bioware with the DA2 ending (have not finished yet, so I can't comment further...), but that game was written by a different group of writers, anyhow. It's just, the entire story has been so well written, with such a fantastic and intricate universe... and the ending, so I've heard, was hashed out in the very beginning. They even have that one planet in ME1 that talks about the beings of light. I think there's more to all of this, here, than what meets the eye. And as it has been stated, devs have pointed out to not necessarily take everything for face value.

Also, the Reapers believe they're unstoppable because they've been doing this for countless cycles. They would not fathom that one person out of one race (out of potentially millions of races) could destroy them. In addition to this, wasn't Soverign the one to say we could not possibly comprehend the purpose of their existence? I think it was presented to us in an understandable (although contradictory) manner that they are killing organics to save organics from creating synthetics which will eventually destroy organics... so anything they do must have a deeper meaning to it, like making Shepard indoctrinated or manipulating her...

I feel like I'm rambling and I hope that all kind of made sense because I am half asleep here.

There's no way they derped the ending when they spent the last 8 years leading up to that point. It may not be the indoctrination theory, it may not be manipulation, but there's something.

[Wabajakka]

Vakariaan wrote...

It all makes sense logically to me.

I really hope they've got some really amazing twist like IDT or the Manipulation Theory coming for us. Ballsy, but brilliant IMHO. I honestly do not believe that the writers would fudge up this badly considering the scope of the story. They're very, very detail oriented people. Patrick Weekes recently spoke on his twitter about the existence of a style manual for writing which delineates capitalization of words, hyphenation, etc. I guess people are pessimistic about Bioware with the DA2 ending (have not finished yet, so I can't comment further...), but that game was written by a different group of writers, anyhow. It's just, the entire story has been so well written, with such a fantastic and intricate universe... and the ending, so I've heard, was hashed out in the very beginning. They even have that one planet in ME1 that talks about the beings of light. I think there's more to all of this, here, than what meets the eye. And as it has been stated, devs have pointed out to not necessarily take everything for face value.

Also, the Reapers believe they're unstoppable because they've been doing this for countless cycles. They would not fathom that one person out of one race (out of potentially millions of races) could destroy them. In addition to this, wasn't Soverign the one to say we could not possibly comprehend the purpose of their existence? I think it was presented to us in an understandable (although contradictory) manner that they are killing organics to save organics from creating synthetics which will eventually destroy organics... so anything they do must have a deeper meaning to it, like making Shepard indoctrinated or manipulating her...

I feel like I'm rambling and I hope that all kind of made sense because I am half asleep here.

There's no way they derped the ending when they spent the last 8 years leading up to that point. It may not be the indoctrination theory, it may not be manipulation, but there's something.

Ya I totally agree. Although I'm reluctant to believe the "being of light" stuff. I think that may have been a trashed idea. The beings of light were meant to be because they were to stop the Reapers, while starkid IS a Reaper technically, so I think they threw that one out the window.

But take a look at the Dark Energy plotline deeper. It was what the Reapers were originally set out to stop and somehow devouring organics helped that cause. I think that is what the "uncomprehensible" part of their purpose was. I mean, what organic would be able to understand that there is some unknown energy that is going to devour the whole galaxy and the only way they could think to stop it is to wipe out organics to just slow it down? How would the Reapers explain that without sounding insane or like they're lying?