12 réponses à ce sujet

[SnakeStrike8]

I am curious about whather or not the destroy ending really kills the geth. We know that shooting the tube will 'destroy all synthetics', but what exactly does that mean? Are we destroying all synthetic bodies? If that's the case, then the geth aren't really dead. The bodies might die, but millions of geth programs live on in servers across Rannoch and inside their warships. Same for EDI, who exists in the Normandy more than it does in Eva's body.
Are we actually wiping out the geth programs themselves? If that's true then we are truly destroying the geth (and EDI), but the technical details of who that would work are limited solely to the realm of magic- not space magic, mind, but just regular warlock magic.
Thoughts on the topic? Would the destroy variation on the ending be more palatable if we all knew that picking that option wouldn't destroy the geth entirely, but rather would just seriously wound some and kill many others?

[Allan Schumacher]

SnakeStrike8 wrote...

I am curious about whather or not the destroy ending really kills the geth. We know that shooting the tube will 'destroy all synthetics', but what exactly does that mean? Are we destroying all synthetic bodies? If that's the case, then the geth aren't really dead. The bodies might die, but millions of geth programs live on in servers across Rannoch and inside their warships. Same for EDI, who exists in the Normandy more than it does in Eva's body.
Are we actually wiping out the geth programs themselves? If that's true then we are truly destroying the geth (and EDI), but the technical details of who that would work are limited solely to the realm of magic- not space magic, mind, but just regular warlock magic.
Thoughts on the topic? Would the destroy variation on the ending be more palatable if we all knew that picking that option wouldn't destroy the geth entirely, but rather would just seriously wound some and kill many others?

I think it's possible, but mostly due to the perceived effects of the Crucible's pulse.  From what we have at the end, we can deduce that what the Crucible affects is related to the EMS we have at the end of the game.  Very low, buildings and people are eradicated, a bit higher and people are spared but the buildings still go kaput, while it seems only the Reapers are affected in the most optimal ending.  Furthermore, Shepard's survival is also dependent on it.

I think it's plausible that with a higher EMS, the pulse targets the reapers more specifically and may spare the Geth.

[Allan Schumacher]

trembli0s wrote...

So we simply have more contradictions then  : 

The most distinguishing feature of quarian biology is their weak immune system, compounded by centuries of living in sterile environments. As a result, all quarians by necessity dress in highly sophisticated enviro-suits, to protect them from disease or infection if they are injured. Their suits can be compartmentalized in the event of a tear or similar breach to prevent the spread of contaminants (similar to a ship sealing off bulkheads in the event of a hull breach). Along with their suits quarians also have extensive cybernetic augmentations integrated into their bodies. 

Ah, but is a person with cybernetics a synthetic life form?

[Allan Schumacher]

If the starkid is lying, than he is doing it so unbelievably badly.

You're saying "Oh, he's obviously lying about the fact that I'm going to commit Genocide, but he's not lying about, say, which device has which effect, or any of the other billion things I'm taking on faith from him. The only thing he's lying about is killing the Geth, everything else I fully believe."

I don't think it's so much whether or not the Catalyst is lying, but rather whether or not the Catalyst is all knowing. Lying is an attempt to deceive, but the Catalyst could simply just be wrong.

[Allan Schumacher]

Rabid Rooster wrote...

This just made me wonder something, why in the hell would the number and strength of my military forces change change the effect of what the space magic errr energy does? Just wondering, doesnt make any sense like the ending.

This is a fair question for sure.  When I went through the game I was definitely more interested in the big guns I was recruiting, rather than the scientists and engineers.  However, based on the end result, the EMS definitely affects what impact the pulse has.

My conclusion is that the EMS score more reflects the ability to engineer and protect the Crucible rather than our direct ability to face Reapers in conflict.

I don't think this is made as clear as it should have been though, unfortunately.  It's also possible the team had plans to utilize the military assets as well, but at that point I'm just starting to make guesses myself.

[Allan Schumacher]

shepard1038 wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Ah, but is a person with cybernetics a synthetic life form?

Good point but that doesn't change the fact that the Guardian said that Shepard was partially synthetic.

This is true, but it's also possible for Shepard to survive.

[Allan Schumacher]

trembli0s wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Ah, but is a person with cybernetics a synthetic life form?

Normally I would agree with you but the Catalyst point-blank pretty much says that Shepard is dying due to his implants.

Now, if you guys want to retcon the ending so that Shepard doesn't die if he chooses control..... :innocent:

It's already possible for Shepard to survive though.  The Catalyst was wrong.

[Allan Schumacher]

DJBare wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...
I don't think it's so much whether or not the Catalyst is lying, but rather whether or not the Catalyst is all knowing. Lying is an attempt to deceive, but the Catalyst could simply just be wrong.

That's a very good point, but allow me to speculate for a moment(I know, bad word), the crusible is designed in such a fashion that with the destroy choice it only targets reaper tech, the firing solution you might say, the catalyst would be aware of this because the crusible is now attached to the citadel.

Maybe.  We aren't really told one way or another.  The Catalyst doesn't mention that humanity will be eradicated if you have a low EMS score, and the ending cinematic shows that that happens, which leads me to believe he's not omnipotent.

[Allan Schumacher]

trembli0s wrote...

If the case is that the StarChild is flat-out wrong, why should we believe anything that he says? Why trust him at all?

I think there's a difference between being flat out wrong, and it just being a mistake.  You bring up an interesting point because as I played through the sequence I found myself inherently distrusting of him, but not to the point where I flat out refused to believe what he was telling us entirely.

I don't have a problem with a faulty narrator archetype but that opens up a whole can of worms for the other options:

Control - Silly human, you just killed yourself for no reason, and we will raze the galaxy anyway.

LOL.  Reading this, I probably found myself believing the general idea behind the Catalyst's explanations, simply because my mind required it.  Not a good reason but it's my reason.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 12 avril 2012 - 06:54 .

[Allan Schumacher]

variobunz wrote...

But the game does not see differences in War Assets. If you have high EMS but alomost nothing for the crucible in the end, it's no difference to a crucible with a lot of assets.

I agree that there's really no differentiation.  Outside of the notion that even the military assets would still be able to help construct the Crucible, I don't really have a good explanation.  It's mostly based on Hackett's conversation where he discusses his concerns about whether or not the crucible can be focused to target only the Reapers, and the result of the videos we have at the end (especially the Destroy endings).

BTW what's the citadel defense force for?

LOL!!!  Unless it gets explained away, I'd probably just consider that a whoops

[Allan Schumacher]

tufy1 wrote...

See, I went the exact opposite direction. My very first reaction is "wait, who are you to tell US what we should do? What happened to freedom of choice? I've just proven you're wrong a couple of missions ago and have Geth and Quarians fighting against the Reapers together, yet you're telling me that peace is a lie? HELL NO!"

I then first tried shooting the kid, then going back to the elevator and when I realized there really is no different way out of it, I tried all three different endings through reloads. Then I closed the game shocked at what the hell just happened and couldn't sleep that evening, afraid that the huge questionmark above my head might fall down and kill me.

It's partly why I went with the Destroy ending.  Not only do I wipe out the Reapers (my goal from the end of ME1), but in doing so I remove the Reaper influence and grant our cycle the opportunity to prove him wrong.  It sucked to have to (maybe? haha) sacrifice the Geth to do so, but the other options had me wary and I felt that if the Geth and Quarians could make peace, the Catalyst's assertion was flawed.

That said, I think an option to refuse the Catalyst's options would have been great.  Though the nihilist in me would have probably had the Reapers win in that case haha.  I actually don't mind the idea of being presented a genuine "no-win" situation and find that idea actually quite interesting (obviously I can see other don't >.>).  I just feel that the execution was a let down.

[Allan Schumacher]

DinoChimp wrote...

I think people are over thinking this. <snip>

Hmmm.  The way I see I think I'm having some interesting conversations with fellow fans.

[Allan Schumacher]

I don't think the destroy ending is supposed to fix the problem of synthetics wiping out all organics.