255 réponses à ce sujet

[Lesbian Wood Elf]

"....even the Geth"

Unless Starchild lied, then the Geth are dead in the destroy ending.

Personally, this is one aspect of the end I can get behind. Stopping the Reapers but killing all synthetic life as a tradeoff for doing so can actually be described as a bittersweet ending.

Modifié par Lesbian Wood Elf, 12 avril 2012 - 05:29 .

[Banelash]

They didn't even show this, that is how lazy the ending was. At least show the waves killing all synths.

[CrimsonHooj]

It comes down to how you defined synthetic life. It is implied that Shepard is partly synthetic and thus will die. Does that mean that someone with a pacemaker will die too? Joker is part synthetic too, he has leg braces and presumably pins in his bones to help keep them together is he considered synthetic?. Synthetic life could be anything really given the pervasiveness of technological augmentation in the game universe.

My slightly rambling point is that it's really up to your own interpretation if the Geth were killed or not. In my opinion the Geth, reapers and all other purely non-organic life forms were destroyed.

[Bfler]

trembli0s wrote...

The funny part is that the Destroy ending also pretty much BONES the Quarians.

Everything in the series has pointed to the Quarians having cybernetics to operate their suits. If you are going to die by choosing the destroy option, you can bet that the Quarians are also going to get the cosmic shaft.

You can see Tali during the crash scene in the destroy ending and she doesn't seem to be injured. 

[RedHotElite]

If, IF, the Starchild wasn't lying about the complete eradification of synthetic life, I always assumed the red energy released in the Destroy ending to be an EMP of sorts that wipes the codes and programs that make up an AI. Especially those with the Reaper code, which would essentially screw over EDI and the Geth as well as the Reapers. I don't think it would effect VIs, though. They don't have the advanced software capable of self-awareness, and if my theory is correct the energy only erases software of the most advanced and "dangerous" variety. So VIs, starship tech, life support, etc. would be unharmed and still be useable.

Sorry if that doesn't make much sense. It's late here.

Edit: Shepard is only part synthetic. Certainly not a full-fleged AI. And his/her organs have surely begun to work on their own by now, so even if it did destroy all technology Shepard would still have a chance at living. Albeit, he/she would be impaired somehow.

MadCat221 wrote...

Aria?  Dead.
Conrad?  Dead.
Jenna?  Dead
Kelly?  Dead.
Aethyta?  Dead.
Ash's family?  Dead.
Blue Rose chick?  Dead.
Kolyat?  Dead.
Dr. Michel or Dr. Chakwas?  Dead.
Extra Grissom students you may have rescued?  Dead.
Commander Bailey?  Dead.
Councilors?  Dead.
Barla Von?  Dead.
Frenchman Refugee and Batarian Refugee?  Dead.
Teen girl refugee who isn't catching on that her parents aren't coming on the next transport?  Dead.
Batarian Preacher consoling the faith-shaken batarian refugees?  Dead.


Please continue my casualty list of people killed by Bioware's want to make big booms without any thought as to the ramifications.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but doesn't Chakwas get transferred to Hackett's fleet to do research? If not...um...Sorry, Karin...

And I'm certain they would never kill off Aria.

Modifié par KevinHawke, 12 avril 2012 - 05:42 .

[Lesbian Wood Elf]

KevinHawke wrote...

If, IF, the Starchild wasn't lying about the complete eradification of synthetic life, I always assumed the red energy released in the Destroy ending to be an EMP of sorts that wipes the codes and programs that make up an AI. Especially those with the Reaper code, which would essentially screw over EDI and the Geth as well as the Reapers. I don't think it would effect VIs, though. They don't have the advanced software capable of self-awareness, and if my theory is correct the energy only erases software of the most advanced and "dangerous" variety. So VIs, starship tech, life support, etc. would be unharmed and still be useable.

Sorry if that doesn't make much sense. It's late here.

MadCat221 wrote...

Aria?  Dead.
Conrad?  Dead.
Jenna?  Dead
Kelly?  Dead.
Aethyta?  Dead.
Ash's family?  Dead.
Blue Rose chick?  Dead.
Kolyat?  Dead.
Dr. Michel or Dr. Chakwas?  Dead.
Extra Grissom students you may have rescued?  Dead.
Commander Bailey?  Dead.
Councilors?  Dead.
Barla Von?  Dead.
Frenchman Refugee and Batarian Refugee?  Dead.
Teen girl refugee who isn't catching on that her parents aren't coming on the next transport?  Dead.
Batarian Preacher consoling the faith-shaken batarian refugees?  Dead.


Please continue my casualty list of people killed by Bioware's want to make big booms without any thought as to the ramifications.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but doesn't Chakwas get transferred to Hackett's fleet to do research? If not...um...Sorry, Karin...

And I'm certain they would never kill off Aria.

Doc was on the Normandy in my save. We even cracked open some Brandy.

[trembli0s]

Bfler wrote...

trembli0s wrote...

The funny part is that the Destroy ending also pretty much BONES the Quarians.

Everything in the series has pointed to the Quarians having cybernetics to operate their suits. If you are going to die by choosing the destroy option, you can bet that the Quarians are also going to get the cosmic shaft.

You can see Tali during the crash scene in the destroy ending and she doesn't seem to be injured. 

So we simply have more contradictions then  : 

The most distinguishing feature of quarian biology is their weak immune system, compounded by centuries of living in sterile environments. As a result, all quarians by necessity dress in highly sophisticated enviro-suits, to protect them from disease or infection if they are injured. Their suits can be compartmentalized in the event of a tear or similar breach to prevent the spread of contaminants (similar to a ship sealing off bulkheads in the event of a hull breach). Along with their suits quarians also have extensive cybernetic augmentations integrated into their bodies. 

[Thornne]

The only information we are given in the game is that 'Destroy' will indeed wipe out all Geth. No information is given or shown to contradict this. So I assume the answer is 'yes'. But since there's almost nothing to go on, pick whatever answer you like.

[HTTP 404]

since you can make up your own ending.....I think the geth are alive through reaper code so that means they live in my book. Even though that stupid brat said I would die if I chose destroy because I was part synthetic, he was wrong. Clearly my shep was breathing in the rubble. so if part synthetic shep can live in destroy ending why not the partly alive geth?

[Ieldra]

Thornne wrote...
The only information we are given in the game is that 'Destroy' will indeed wipe out all Geth. No information is given or shown to contradict this. So I assume the answer is 'yes'.

Indeed. And it makes sense, given that Destroy is the pro-organics choice.

[MadCat221]

KevinHawke wrote...

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but doesn't Chakwas get transferred to Hackett's fleet to do research? If not...um...Sorry, Karin...

And I'm certain they would never kill off Aria.

Erm... I wouldn't know.  I assumed she stayed in whatever lab she was working on at the Citadel.  I never managed to bring myself to leave her behind in favor of Michel.  She puts on a good guilt trip.  


I always had a hunch that maybe Hackett was one of the "tough soldiers with piercing eyes and sensitive souls" she went for in her younger days...

Modifié par MadCat221, 12 avril 2012 - 05:55 .

[Bill Casey]

KevinHawke wrote...

If, IF, the Starchild wasn't lying about the complete eradification of synthetic life, I always assumed the red energy released in the Destroy ending to be an EMP of sorts that wipes the codes and programs that make up an AI. Especially those with the Reaper code, which would essentially screw over EDI and the Geth as well as the Reapers.

EDI can walk out of the Normandy in the Destroy ending...
It's Joker, Love Interest and one loyal squadmate...

[Allan Schumacher]

SnakeStrike8 wrote...

I am curious about whather or not the destroy ending really kills the geth. We know that shooting the tube will 'destroy all synthetics', but what exactly does that mean? Are we destroying all synthetic bodies? If that's the case, then the geth aren't really dead. The bodies might die, but millions of geth programs live on in servers across Rannoch and inside their warships. Same for EDI, who exists in the Normandy more than it does in Eva's body.
Are we actually wiping out the geth programs themselves? If that's true then we are truly destroying the geth (and EDI), but the technical details of who that would work are limited solely to the realm of magic- not space magic, mind, but just regular warlock magic.
Thoughts on the topic? Would the destroy variation on the ending be more palatable if we all knew that picking that option wouldn't destroy the geth entirely, but rather would just seriously wound some and kill many others?

I think it's possible, but mostly due to the perceived effects of the Crucible's pulse.  From what we have at the end, we can deduce that what the Crucible affects is related to the EMS we have at the end of the game.  Very low, buildings and people are eradicated, a bit higher and people are spared but the buildings still go kaput, while it seems only the Reapers are affected in the most optimal ending.  Furthermore, Shepard's survival is also dependent on it.

I think it's plausible that with a higher EMS, the pulse targets the reapers more specifically and may spare the Geth.

[DJBare]

Bill Casey wrote...

KevinHawke wrote...

If, IF, the Starchild wasn't lying about the complete eradification of synthetic life, I always assumed the red energy released in the Destroy ending to be an EMP of sorts that wipes the codes and programs that make up an AI. Especially those with the Reaper code, which would essentially screw over EDI and the Geth as well as the Reapers.

EDI can walk out of the Normandy in the Destroy ending...
It's Joker, Love Interest and one loyal squadmate...

Yup, for some unfathomable reason, some people cannot get the concept that the catalyst maybe lying.

Here I am the catalyst, billions of years of plans now under threat, oh sure mr Shepard, you can destroy us, but you will also destroy all synthetic life *places hand over mouth and snickers, I bet he falls for it and chooses one of the other options to save his Geth friends and EDI*

[Allan Schumacher]

trembli0s wrote...

So we simply have more contradictions then  : 

The most distinguishing feature of quarian biology is their weak immune system, compounded by centuries of living in sterile environments. As a result, all quarians by necessity dress in highly sophisticated enviro-suits, to protect them from disease or infection if they are injured. Their suits can be compartmentalized in the event of a tear or similar breach to prevent the spread of contaminants (similar to a ship sealing off bulkheads in the event of a hull breach). Along with their suits quarians also have extensive cybernetic augmentations integrated into their bodies. 

Ah, but is a person with cybernetics a synthetic life form?

[Bill Casey]

Lesbian Wood Elf wrote...

"....even the Geth"

Unless Starchild lied, then the Geth are dead in the destroy ending.

Personally, this is one aspect of the end I can get behind. Stopping the Reapers but killing all synthetic life as a tradeoff for doing so can actually be described as a bittersweet ending.

I think it detracts from the issue...
Reverting the Geth to their pre-upgraded state would essentially mirror destroying the Relays (Control alledgedly doesn't)...
It's rejecting the Reaper's technology and achieving it on our own terms vs. utilizing it to make our lives better...

Throwing the Geth under the bus is lame and gimmicky...
Destroying the individuality they achieved with Reaper help and allowing them the chance to eventually achieve it on their own is thematic...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 12 avril 2012 - 06:04 .

[Mr. Big Pimpin]

I'm sure that the original intention was for the geth to die in Destroy, but there's the possibility that Bioware will retcon this in the Extended Cut to keep them alive with high EMS(not that they'd ever admit it was a retcon, because if it was, then that would ruin their artistic integrity). In that same way they may retcon that the galaxy goes into a "dark age".

Modifié par Mr. Big Pimpin, 12 avril 2012 - 06:03 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

DJBare wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

KevinHawke wrote...

If, IF, the Starchild wasn't lying about the complete eradification of synthetic life, I always assumed the red energy released in the Destroy ending to be an EMP of sorts that wipes the codes and programs that make up an AI. Especially those with the Reaper code, which would essentially screw over EDI and the Geth as well as the Reapers.

EDI can walk out of the Normandy in the Destroy ending...
It's Joker, Love Interest and one loyal squadmate...

Yup, for some unfathomable reason, some people cannot get the concept that the catalyst maybe lying.

Here I am the catalyst, billions of years of plans now under threat, oh sure mr Shepard, you can destroy us, but you will also destroy all synthetic life *places hand over mouth and snickers, I bet he falls for it and chooses one of the other options to save his Geth friends and EDI*

If the starkid is lying, than he is doing it so unbelievably badly.

You're saying "Oh, he's obviously lying about the fact that I'm going to commit Genocide, but he's not lying about, say, which device has which effect, or any of the other billion things I'm taking on faith from him. The only thing he's lying about is killing the Geth, everything else I fully believe." 

If I were the starchild, there are so many better ways to lie that would make even renegade sheps pick one of the other devices to activate. Lying about just that one thing is... stupid.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 12 avril 2012 - 06:04 .

[MadCat221]

Bill Casey wrote...

KevinHawke wrote...

If, IF, the Starchild wasn't lying about the complete eradification of synthetic life, I always assumed the red energy released in the Destroy ending to be an EMP of sorts that wipes the codes and programs that make up an AI. Especially those with the Reaper code, which would essentially screw over EDI and the Geth as well as the Reapers.

EDI can walk out of the Normandy in the Destroy ending...
It's Joker, Love Interest and one loyal squadmate...

I have a feeling that there may be a hierarchy for the "loyal squadmate" appearance, because in so many vids of the ending I've seen, it ends up being Javik.  I know for certain that I got EDI fully loyal because of her "I feel alive", but for me, it's always Javik it seems.

[HTTP 404]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

SnakeStrike8 wrote...

I am curious about whather or not the destroy ending really kills the geth. We know that shooting the tube will 'destroy all synthetics', but what exactly does that mean? Are we destroying all synthetic bodies? If that's the case, then the geth aren't really dead. The bodies might die, but millions of geth programs live on in servers across Rannoch and inside their warships. Same for EDI, who exists in the Normandy more than it does in Eva's body.
Are we actually wiping out the geth programs themselves? If that's true then we are truly destroying the geth (and EDI), but the technical details of who that would work are limited solely to the realm of magic- not space magic, mind, but just regular warlock magic.
Thoughts on the topic? Would the destroy variation on the ending be more palatable if we all knew that picking that option wouldn't destroy the geth entirely, but rather would just seriously wound some and kill many others?

I think it's possible, but mostly due to the perceived effects of the Crucible's pulse.  From what we have at the end, we can deduce that what the Crucible affects is related to the EMS we have at the end of the game.  Very low, buildings and people are eradicated, a bit higher and people are spared but the buildings still go kaput, while it seems only the Reapers are affected in the most optimal ending.  Furthermore, Shepard's survival is also dependent on it.

I think it's plausible that with a higher EMS, the pulse targets the reapers more specifically and may spare the Geth.

I am gonna go ahead and jump to conclusions: so the geth live in my playthrough. 

[Rabid Rooster]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

SnakeStrike8 wrote...

I am curious about whather or not the destroy ending really kills the geth. We know that shooting the tube will 'destroy all synthetics', but what exactly does that mean? Are we destroying all synthetic bodies? If that's the case, then the geth aren't really dead. The bodies might die, but millions of geth programs live on in servers across Rannoch and inside their warships. Same for EDI, who exists in the Normandy more than it does in Eva's body.
Are we actually wiping out the geth programs themselves? If that's true then we are truly destroying the geth (and EDI), but the technical details of who that would work are limited solely to the realm of magic- not space magic, mind, but just regular warlock magic.
Thoughts on the topic? Would the destroy variation on the ending be more palatable if we all knew that picking that option wouldn't destroy the geth entirely, but rather would just seriously wound some and kill many others?

I think it's possible, but mostly due to the perceived effects of the Crucible's pulse.  From what we have at the end, we can deduce that what the Crucible affects is related to the EMS we have at the end of the game.  Very low, buildings and people are eradicated, a bit higher and people are spared but the buildings still go kaput, while it seems only the Reapers are affected in the most optimal ending.  Furthermore, Shepard's survival is also dependent on it.

I think it's plausible that with a higher EMS, the pulse targets the reapers more specifically and may spare the Geth.

This just made me wonder something, why in the hell would the number and strength of my military forces change the effect of what the space magic errr energy does? Just wondering, doesnt make any sense like the ending.

Modifié par Rabid Rooster, 12 avril 2012 - 06:06 .

[Allan Schumacher]

If the starkid is lying, than he is doing it so unbelievably badly.

You're saying "Oh, he's obviously lying about the fact that I'm going to commit Genocide, but he's not lying about, say, which device has which effect, or any of the other billion things I'm taking on faith from him. The only thing he's lying about is killing the Geth, everything else I fully believe."

I don't think it's so much whether or not the Catalyst is lying, but rather whether or not the Catalyst is all knowing. Lying is an attempt to deceive, but the Catalyst could simply just be wrong.

[DJBare]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
If the starkid is lying, than he is doing it so unbelievably badly.

Is he?, look at this forum, most posts I've seen have taken his word on face value.

[Bill Casey]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

If the starkid is lying, than he is doing it so unbelievably badly.

You're saying "Oh, he's obviously lying about the fact that I'm going to commit Genocide, but he's not lying about, say, which device has which effect, or any of the other billion things I'm taking on faith from him. The only thing he's lying about is killing the Geth, everything else I fully believe." 

Alledgedly, he's also lying about all options destroying the Mass Relays...
Control apparently doesn't...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 12 avril 2012 - 06:07 .

[Arik7]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

SnakeStrike8 wrote...

I am curious about whather or not the destroy ending really kills the geth. We know that shooting the tube will 'destroy all synthetics', but what exactly does that mean? Are we destroying all synthetic bodies? If that's the case, then the geth aren't really dead. The bodies might die, but millions of geth programs live on in servers across Rannoch and inside their warships. Same for EDI, who exists in the Normandy more than it does in Eva's body.
Are we actually wiping out the geth programs themselves? If that's true then we are truly destroying the geth (and EDI), but the technical details of who that would work are limited solely to the realm of magic- not space magic, mind, but just regular warlock magic.
Thoughts on the topic? Would the destroy variation on the ending be more palatable if we all knew that picking that option wouldn't destroy the geth entirely, but rather would just seriously wound some and kill many others?

I think it's possible, but mostly due to the perceived effects of the Crucible's pulse.  From what we have at the end, we can deduce that what the Crucible affects is related to the EMS we have at the end of the game.  Very low, buildings and people are eradicated, a bit higher and people are spared but the buildings still go kaput, while it seems only the Reapers are affected in the most optimal ending.  Furthermore, Shepard's survival is also dependent on it.

I think it's plausible that with a higher EMS, the pulse targets the reapers more specifically and may spare the Geth.

Is it an example of effective writing / game design for your "Effective Military Strength" to affect the nature of the Crucible explosion?  This was never explained.  We did not see the Crucible being damaged.  We did not see our war assets in action.   But who cares about choices and consequences in a shooter, am I right?

Modifié par Arik7, 12 avril 2012 - 06:08 .