255 réponses à ce sujet

[DJBare]

shepard1038 wrote...

A question if the destroy ending kills all synthetics why do some people say that if you bring Edi to the catalyst run she survives on the destroy ending and if you don't she doesn't survive, is this a bug or something else???

Somebody said it was not a bug, but I'm far too tired to seek out the source.

[Bowie Hawkins]

MadCat221 wrote...

Teen girl refugee who isn't catching on that her parents aren't coming on the next transport?  Dead.

It's not so much that she isn't catching on as that she's in denial and struggling to come up with a way to avoid admitting that her parents are dead.

[trembli0s]

If the case is that the StarChild is flat-out wrong, why should we believe anything that he says? Why trust him at all?

I don't have a problem with a faulty narrator archetype but that opens up a whole can of worms for the other options:

Control - Silly human, you just killed yourself for no reason, and we will raze the galaxy anyway.

[GSSAGE7]

I always figured that the geth, EDI, and Shepard (sometimes) died in the destroy ending because they all have Reaper tech in them. The only way for the geth to live past Rannoch is for them all get the Reaper code. TIM said that he used Reaper tech to upgrade EDI into what she is, and I vaguely recall it being said somewhere that there was Reaper tech involved with the Lazarus project.
I kinda figured the reason Shep survived if you had enough EMS was just because he was strong enough to overcome the lack of implants. Just my own little fanwank, so it could be wrong.

[tufy1]

Salfin wrote...

I think the condradictions are there to allow people to make their own decisions about what happens.

I'm 99,9% certain those contradictions are there because the team didn't spend more than a second on their "artistic ending". After all, the Destroy ending with low EMS kills Shepard as well, suggesting that it simply targets any cybernetic organism (and since Shepard is partially cybernetic, that kills him/her). With higher EMS, Shepard survives, suggesting the Allies managed to control their reaction to such an extent that specifically reaper organisms are targeted. Since both Geth and EDI had some Reaper code, that would kill or at least severely weaken them, but not Shepard.

However, no matter which ending you choose, for some reason, Normandy crashes, which makes no sense at all, let alone thinking what Normandy was doing anyway. Also, regardless of choice, you still betray a part of your allies, oh savior of the galaxy.

As someone above said, this is like trying to divide by zero - and no matter how many times you'll multiply it, you'll still get an undefined answer.

Modifié par tufy1, 12 avril 2012 - 06:41 .

[Dead_Meat357]

I doubt it. Regardless of whether or not you believe in the indoctrination theory, the Starchild obviously lied as Shepard doesn't necessarily die here. Everything said from the moment he walks up is suspect and should be questioned.

[Spectre-61]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Rabid Rooster wrote...

This just made me wonder something, why in the hell would the number and strength of my military forces change change the effect of what the space magic errr energy does? Just wondering, doesnt make any sense like the ending.

This is a fair question for sure.  When I went through the game I was definitely more interested in the big guns I was recruiting, rather than the scientists and engineers.  However, based on the end result, the EMS definitely affects what impact the pulse has.

My conclusion is that the EMS score more reflects the ability to engineer and protect the Crucible rather than our direct ability to face Reapers in conflict.

I don't think this is made as clear as it should have been though, unfortunately.  It's also possible the team had plans to utilize the military assets as well, but at that point I'm just starting to make guesses myself.

But the game does not see differences in War Assets. If you have high EMS but alomost nothing for the crucible in the end, it's no difference to a crucible with a lot of assets.

BTW what's the citadel defense force for?

[Allan Schumacher]

DJBare wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...
I don't think it's so much whether or not the Catalyst is lying, but rather whether or not the Catalyst is all knowing. Lying is an attempt to deceive, but the Catalyst could simply just be wrong.

That's a very good point, but allow me to speculate for a moment(I know, bad word), the crusible is designed in such a fashion that with the destroy choice it only targets reaper tech, the firing solution you might say, the catalyst would be aware of this because the crusible is now attached to the citadel.

Maybe.  We aren't really told one way or another.  The Catalyst doesn't mention that humanity will be eradicated if you have a low EMS score, and the ending cinematic shows that that happens, which leads me to believe he's not omnipotent.

[Shajar]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I think it's possible, but mostly due to the perceived effects of the Crucible's pulse.  From what we have at the end, we can deduce that what the Crucible affects is related to the EMS we have at the end of the game.  Very low, buildings and people are eradicated, a bit higher and people are spared but the buildings still go kaput, while it seems only the Reapers are affected in the most optimal ending.  Furthermore, Shepard's survival is also dependent on it.

I think it's plausible that with a higher EMS, the pulse targets the reapers more specifically and may spare the Geth.

Its very cool that there is guy  from Bioware who talks like and is just Fan here, and being active even if not part of ME team. Most of times devs never post on forums but this guy is special +1 for that 

@Topic

I refuse to believe my friends die, but if so then it must for sace of Tali's house. Shepard needs to be alive, dead Shep cannot build it

Modifié par Shajar, 12 avril 2012 - 06:45 .

[DJBare]

Dead_Meat357 wrote...

I doubt it. Regardless of whether or not you believe in the indoctrination theory, the Starchild obviously lied as Shepard doesn't necessarily die here. Everything said from the moment he walks up is suspect and should be questioned.

And that is arguably where it all fell apart, because we were not given the option to question him, take it on face value or just stand there until the crusible blows up.

[DarthSyphilis59]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

If the starkid is lying, than he is doing it so unbelievably badly.

You're saying "Oh, he's obviously lying about the fact that I'm going to commit Genocide, but he's not lying about, say, which device has which effect, or any of the other billion things I'm taking on faith from him. The only thing he's lying about is killing the Geth, everything else I fully believe."

I don't think it's so much whether or not the Catalyst is lying, but rather whether or not the Catalyst is all knowing. Lying is an attempt to deceive, but the Catalyst could simply just be wrong.

That is why starchild needs to get slapped!

[Allan Schumacher]

trembli0s wrote...

If the case is that the StarChild is flat-out wrong, why should we believe anything that he says? Why trust him at all?

I think there's a difference between being flat out wrong, and it just being a mistake.  You bring up an interesting point because as I played through the sequence I found myself inherently distrusting of him, but not to the point where I flat out refused to believe what he was telling us entirely.

I don't have a problem with a faulty narrator archetype but that opens up a whole can of worms for the other options:

Control - Silly human, you just killed yourself for no reason, and we will raze the galaxy anyway.

LOL.  Reading this, I probably found myself believing the general idea behind the Catalyst's explanations, simply because my mind required it.  Not a good reason but it's my reason.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 12 avril 2012 - 06:54 .

[Bill Casey]

Modifié par Bill Casey, 12 avril 2012 - 06:53 .

[MoZedK]

A good question, that is hard to answer, but if you are under the assumption that the space kid is Harbinger it self, well then why woulden't he be laying well the fact is he would.
He want you to do something other, but thats a looong discution that I am now trying to make on a video.
But taking some time have never tryed making a video befour.

[Warp92]

Sweet!! Choices

Bill Casey wrote...

[Meltemph]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...
I don't think it's so much whether or not the Catalyst is lying, but rather whether or not the Catalyst is all knowing. Lying is an attempt to deceive, but the Catalyst could simply just be wrong.

That's a very good point, but allow me to speculate for a moment(I know, bad word), the crusible is designed in such a fashion that with the destroy choice it only targets reaper tech, the firing solution you might say, the catalyst would be aware of this because the crusible is now attached to the citadel.

Maybe.  We aren't really told one way or another.  The Catalyst doesn't mention that humanity will be eradicated if you have a low EMS score, and the ending cinematic shows that that happens, which leads me to believe he's not omnipotent.

Considering EDI can live, I think it is obvious the kid is wrong or lying... Either that or BW forgot within about 2 hours between the cerberus base and the ending, that EDI is composed or reaper tech.

[Spectre-61]

Warp92 wrote...

Sweet!! Choices

Bill Casey wrote...

Hmm...

I can't decide.

[Meltemph]

I think there's a difference between being flat out wrong, and it just being a mistake. You bring up an interesting point because as I played through the sequence I found myself inherently distrusting of him, but not to the point where I flat out refused to believe what he was telling us entirely.

Actually, I had a pretty extreme distrust for him. Outside of the destroy ending, his views on things was near identical to TIM's idea's. Control ending is obvious, but the synthesis ending is also his idea. Remember back on Mars, where they talk to TIM about what he is doing to his troops, "synthesizing" by combining reaper tech with humans. Shep calls it brutal experiments or something of the sort, but then TIM responds with, "No, it is improvements".

[DJBare]

Meltemph wrote...

Considering EDI can live, I think it is obvious the kid is wrong or lying... Either that or BW forgot within about 2 hours between the cerberus base and the ending, that EDI is composed of reaper tech.

It should be noted EDI is based "in part" on reaper tech.

[Allan Schumacher]

variobunz wrote...

But the game does not see differences in War Assets. If you have high EMS but alomost nothing for the crucible in the end, it's no difference to a crucible with a lot of assets.

I agree that there's really no differentiation.  Outside of the notion that even the military assets would still be able to help construct the Crucible, I don't really have a good explanation.  It's mostly based on Hackett's conversation where he discusses his concerns about whether or not the crucible can be focused to target only the Reapers, and the result of the videos we have at the end (especially the Destroy endings).

BTW what's the citadel defense force for?

LOL!!!  Unless it gets explained away, I'd probably just consider that a whoops

[Bill Casey]

Meltemph wrote...

Actually, I had a pretty extreme distrust for him. Outside of the destroy ending, his views on things was near identical to TIM's idea's. Control ending is obvious, but the synthesis ending is also his idea. Remember back on Mars, where they talk to TIM about what he is doing to his troops, "synthesizing" by combining reaper tech with humans. Shep calls it brutal experiments or something of the sort, but then TIM responds with, "No, it is improvements".

And there's the whole Saren thing about "organic and machine combined" as the pinnacle of evolution...
And the whole Collector thing, and the Keepers, and the Zha'Til thing, and the Human Reaper thing, and Sovereign, and husks, and the Reapers themselves...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 12 avril 2012 - 06:57 .

[tufy1]

Allan Schumacher wrote...
LOL.  Reading this, I probably found myself believing the general idea behind the Catalyst's explanations, simply because my mind required it.  Not a good reason but it's my reason.

See, I went the exact opposite direction. My very first reaction is "wait, who are you to tell US what we should do? What happened to freedom of choice? I've just proven you're wrong a couple of missions ago and have Geth and Quarians fighting against the Reapers together, yet you're telling me that peace is a lie? HELL NO!"

I then first tried shooting the kid, then going back to the elevator and when I realized there really is no different way out of it, I tried all three different endings through reloads. Then I closed the game shocked at what the hell just happened and couldn't sleep that evening, afraid that the huge questionmark above my head might fall down and kill me.

[Arppis]

DJBare wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

Considering EDI can live, I think it is obvious the kid is wrong or lying... Either that or BW forgot within about 2 hours between the cerberus base and the ending, that EDI is composed of reaper tech.

It should be noted EDI is based "in part" on reaper tech.

Hah, maybe she will be half-wited afterwards?

[DJBare]

Arppis wrote...
Hah, maybe she will be half-wited afterwards?

Well, that would assume she requires the reaper tech to maintain her memories and experiences, I prefer to think the reaper tech gave her AI a kick start to the next level in synthetic evolution.

[Ironhandjustice]

No problem with starchild... if this:

http://social.biowar.../index/11175157