76 réponses à ce sujet

[sheltomlee]

Stardusk wrote...

Not this again. Krogan can use shotguns as well.

o blue rose of illium, please understand the need to melee as a Krogan should

[Escocido]

GGW KillerTiger wrote...

 Ahhhhh!! Crummy Youtube video! TV screen recorded by a video camera! My eyes hurt now after 5 seconds of viewing. Owe! So what's the beef? The Krogan meant for cqc melee combat does less melee damage than ther other krogans when it coems to melee? Interesting. Oh and I also saw you call someone a newbie when in actuality melee does not pass shield gate. I have used a fully raged krogan sentinel to heavy melee gold difficulty cerberus sentinels and they had 1 shield bar left. 

Melee bypasses shield gate. I dealt damage to shielded Centurion's health on Gold. And it's not a complaint that the Broguard does little damage. Is a complaint about the fact that a power doesn't work. Which is a bug. Which is OK to report.

[veramis]

GodlessPaladin, thanks for the info. I thought melee was a little funny when fully specced krogan vanguard, I was using my gun more than melee because of it. And don't worry so much about people on the board, a lot are semi-literate young people.

[GodlessPaladin]

GGW KillerTiger wrote...

 Ahhhhh!! Crummy Youtube video! TV screen recorded by a video camera! My eyes hurt now after 5 seconds of viewing. Owe! So what's the beef? The Krogan meant for cqc melee combat does less melee damage than ther other krogans when it coems to melee? Interesting. Oh and I also saw you call someone a newbie when in actuality melee does not pass shield gate. I have used a fully raged krogan sentinel to heavy melee gold difficulty cerberus sentinels and they had 1 shield bar left. 

It does pass the shield gate, this is demonstrated in the video...

veramis wrote...

GodlessPaladin, thanks for the info. I
thought melee was a little funny when fully specced krogan vanguard, I
was using my gun more than melee because of it. And don't worry so much
about people on the board, a lot are semi-literate young people.

If only they could READ...  

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 12 avril 2012 - 11:31 .

[RecoonHoodie]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Just tested this.  When in full swing blood rage, I wasn't getting the damage bonus as a Krogan Vanguard.  I couldn't one-shot a lowly Gold Nemesis, completely unlike my Krogan Sentinel with the exact same melee specs.
 
Krogan melee needs to work.  Rage Krogan are all ABOUT melee.  Having it be glitched so that it doesn't work is not acceptable.

Video proof: 

I've just played on gold with krogan vanguard and can confirm that. Early today I played with krogan soldier  
and left nemesis death or 1 square. With vanguards not the same. Maybe the mylee synergy from the charge has anything to do with that. I don't know. 

[jelf rs]

OP should test this by using an unspecced vanguard and a specced vanguard, instead of a sentinel and a vanguard.

Though I do notice my vanguard seems to be doing less melee damage than my sentinel and soldier.

[HippyGiJoe]

This could be intentional, maybe the base melee dmg of a krogan vanguard is lower than its soldier/sentinel counterparts.
It would not make sense since the vanguard is a master in close combat, but who knows, until a Bioware rep actually answers the question its all speculation.

Bug or intended?
I vote for bug.

[Trakarg]

GGW KillerTiger wrote...

 Ahhhhh!! Crummy Youtube video! TV screen recorded by a video camera! My eyes hurt now after 5 seconds of viewing. Owe! So what's the beef? The Krogan meant for cqc melee combat does less melee damage than ther other krogans when it coems to melee? Interesting. Oh and I also saw you call someone a newbie when in actuality melee does not pass shield gate. I have used a fully raged krogan sentinel to heavy melee gold difficulty cerberus sentinels and they had 1 shield bar left. 

Melee bypasses the shield gate.  Learn to play.

[GeckoOBac]

I think it's intended, though it's a shame imho... Unless we can get proof from the game files that the base melee damage is the same for all the krogans, then I'd say that they toned down the kroguard melee damage to make up for the fast gap closing ability and higher survivability.

[Trakarg]

GeckoOBac wrote...

I think it's intended, though it's a shame imho... Unless we can get proof from the game files that the base melee damage is the same for all the krogans, then I'd say that they toned down the kroguard melee damage to make up for the fast gap closing ability and higher survivability.

If that's the case, how annoying.  Melee-heavy characters already suck on gold.  Having one that's finally viable would have been fun.  I mean, max melee damage already means you have to sacrifice shields and health thanks to Fitness's ****ty design, so it's not like melee characters (who actually want to survive) do insane amounts of damage anyway.

Modifié par Trakarg, 12 avril 2012 - 11:35 .

[ForTuchanka]

I'd post this (if you haven't already) in the existing bug thread to see if anyone from BW confirms if this is a design balance or bug. Posting separate bug threads about stuff that doesn't completely crash a game don't seem to garner any posts from anyone official. I started 4 or 5 threads about Krogans and their existing bugs without a single response from anyone official, even in the tech support forum. The bug thread at least has gotten a few mod posts in it.

[RiflemanUK]

The base melee damage is based on KroganMeleePassive and there isn't a separate one for the Krogan vanguard so it has the exact same melee damage as every other Krogan.

Therefore it's a bug.

[Verhalthur]

Whether or not you should melee on Gold is irrelevant to this topic. A bug is still a bug, even if it is one that people aren't likely to cause to happen a lot.

[DarkAbsolution]

Hmmm, it was said in an earlier post that as a sentinel the tech armor was purged prior to the melee attack. TA burst does a fair amount of damage by itself, so is it possible that's not being counted here?

[GodlessPaladin]

DarkAbsolution wrote...

Hmmm, it was said in an earlier post that as a sentinel the tech armor was purged prior to the melee attack. TA burst does a fair amount of damage by itself, so is it possible that's not being counted here?

Will people stop making stupid inane comments without even watching the video?  I mean really.

The nemesis clearly has full shields before being meleed, and was not hit by the armor burst. 

[DarkAbsolution]

Lighten up man. Am on a mobile device and didn't have bandwidth to watch the vids. No need to be an ass.

[GodlessPaladin]

RiflemanUK wrote...

The base melee damage is based on KroganMeleePassive and there isn't a separate one for the Krogan vanguard so it has the exact same melee damage as every other Krogan.

Therefore it's a bug.

Yup.

[magor1988x]

Yeah it felt weaker to me as well. I was playing a biotic det combo (Asari Justicar, Asari Adept, & Drell Adept) with my Krogan Battlemaster on Reapers on Gold difficulty.

It's a blast but, I definitely felt like their heavy melee was a bit off from the Soldier & the Sentinel versions. Definitely could be a glitch.

I don't run around focusing all my time on melee like I do on Bronze (Because it's LOLTuchankaLOL), but I definitely incorporate melee into my rotation when & where possible & it's *muuuuuuch* easier to heavy melee on Gold as a Krogan Vanguard than the other two. Using a Soldier or Sent you have to walk your quad up to an enemy & then melee them & by then your shields are gone & possibly a chunk of your health as well... Vanguard just takes all that out of it plus 100% shield restore plus Barrier for extra damage reduction.

So to the trolls, yes heavy meleeing on Gold as a BM becomes a very viable part of your toolkit as opposed to Sent & Sold.

Modifié par magor1988x, 12 avril 2012 - 12:24 .

[NazzNAA]

DarkAbsolution wrote...

Lighten up man. Am on a mobile device and didn't have bandwidth to watch the vids. No need to be an ass.

If you're unable to watch the video and then make helpful comments, why comment at all?  And then you call him an ass?  After watching the video it's hard to argue with OP's claims.  Certainly looks like a bug...or at least something that Bioware needs to test and explain why vanguard melee is considerably weaker than the sentinels.

[Gabiwan]

I think the main problem in your proving approach is that, you compare different classes. Unless you are certain that each race - regardless of their classes- has the same base damage, this stuff might not mean much. First of all, you have to check whether other races' melee damage are same for every class. Even if they are, it can still be a design choice that the values for krogan are different. Then, you have to check the values for the krogan vanguards, basically specced vs. unspecced to be sure that one of the perks doesn't apply correctly. Finally, probably there is another forum for reporting bugs like another person posted above, which can help more.

In any case, buff'em those Krogans, I wanna one shot them ravagers, just like Grunt!

[Night Wraith]

Melee is not the only thing a Krogan possesses but it is an important part of the toolkit. It needs to work.

[Pekkan]

It could be game balance reasons. Biotic charge gives such a boost when it comes to surviving, that if krogan vanguard was able to do same melee as more squishy sentinel, there would be no point in playing krogan sentinel.

[Bruceski]

Gabiwan wrote...

I think the main problem in your proving approach is that, you compare different classes. Unless you are certain that each race - regardless of their classes- has the same base damage, this stuff might not mean much. First of all, you have to check whether other races' melee damage are same for every class. Even if they are, it can still be a design choice that the values for krogan are different. Then, you have to check the values for the krogan vanguards, basically specced vs. unspecced to be sure that one of the perks doesn't apply correctly. Finally, probably there is another forum for reporting bugs like another person posted above, which can help more.

In any case, buff'em those Krogans, I wanna one shot them ravagers, just like Grunt!

It's very easy to test, don't need to look at other races.

Lv. 1 Krogan Vanguard, 1 point in rage, heavy melee (unraged) leaves one pip on a bronze Geth Trooper (825 hp).
Lv. 1 Krogan Sentinel, 1 point in rage, heavy melee (unraged, unshielded) leaves one pip on a bronze Geth Trooper (825 hp). 
Heavy melee's listed base damage is 700, with the 15% from rage that's 805 so this is consistent with expectations.  Anyway note that the melees can at most differ by 80 damage, or 10% of expected, otherwise one would show a second pip.

Looking at the video the Sentinel with full rage left two pips while the Vanguard left six.  Since a Nemesis has 1012 hp on gold that's a 3-500 damage difference (Sentinel's 2-300 hp left, Vanguard's 6-700), or 43-72% of base damage.  Figuring out exactly where the split occurs would require more thurough testing than I can do with level 1 Krogans (I'm a habitual promoter).  


So to summarise the problem:
Base damage is shown to be the same or nearly the same.
Raged damage lists the same numbers on the Powers screen.
Raged damage is different in-game.
Ergo there is a bug in either the in-game damage or the Powers information.

Modifié par Bruceski, 12 avril 2012 - 06:11 .

[Peer of the Empire]

You girls wont be kicking me. Take care that I don't kick you. Against Cerberus especially you can melee quite lackadaisically on gold. If it wasn't for phantoms you could play gold in a half daze, and even they are handled with GPS X

[Shampoohorn]

Saw the video. You're probably spot on wrt rage. It would be very informative to see Vanguard heavy melee damage vs Nemesis ±Rage active. And also Sentinel with no rage compared to Vanguard with no rage to confirm that this isn't due to some basic/hidden class difference. But there are some many permutations that it might not be worth the effort without some input from one of the devs.