74 réponses à ce sujet

[MizzNaaa]

I can't say who's a minority or who's a majority. I do know I did not like the endings, and thought the godchild was completely out of place, the ending lacked sense or cohesion, and the least BioWare could do is add to it, to give more context and clarity. The LEAST.

However, I don't agree with turning this into a 'movement' or a 'cause'. I'm invested in ME, I even went out of my way to buy the CE for the last game, so I understand what it means to be passionate about the universe.

Thing is, people need to realize that yelling, and shaking their fists, and threatening BioWare, or any other company really, isn't the answer. As consumers, we have the power - our money - and yet, people still choose the yelling/whining/screaming method rather than voting with their currency. Which is the main reason people call gamers entitled babies.

Am I going to boycott BioWare? No, not really. Am I going to preorder their next franchise? No, absolutely not. Am I going to take official reviews as in indicator of the quality of BioWare product? Hell to the no.

I'm going to wait, hold onto my hard earned money, and see if they manage to make games the quality of ME1 and ME2 and DA: Origins, or if they will still give us unfinished products ala DAII and ME3.

Because, that's -to me- what DAII and ME3 are, great games that needed more development times and some revisions.

So yeah, I'll wait and see.

[pikey1969]

It's a nice sentiment you got there, and personally I hardly think people who think the endings suck are the minority (thinking endings should be completely changed, is a bit of a different issue though and certainly something that I see a lot of opinions deviate on).

But YouTube search? really? That's your 'i told you so' for Bioware?

Modifié par pikey1969, 12 avril 2012 - 08:50 .

[An English Gamer]

 I read recently something where someone at Bioware might have stated that they didn't want to change the ending because of upsetting the people who already like the ending. If what I read is true and I am not just remembering a false memory then their excuse is "We can't be bothered to seperate the mission and put ALTERNATIVE ENDING on it to show it's an alternative."
They're ignoring the probable majority over the sake of displeasing the minority when all they need to do is make it like any other DLC, just it's only available at the last section of the game. Provided I really did read what I remember reading.

Modifié par An English Gamer, 12 avril 2012 - 09:11 .

[Clayless]

No, the only statistics we have are the haters are the minority.

There is no statistics on who is the majority.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Yeah. I'm not happy about the ending, but I know a couple of people who liked it fine... the thing is, they're not talking about it now. Nobody I know who thought the ending was "OK" has said "and based on that ending, I'm going to keep recommending Mass Effect to all my friends!"

That said, being dicks isn't going to help. Calmly stating that we're still upset might help... because epilogues can happen. Sequels can happen. Epilogue expansions where you play as either your possibly-dead character or somebody else can happen, and can be quite good (I'm looking at you, Awakening.)

I don't know. In the last few years, I've spent over $600 on Mass Effect products, DLC, and gifting other people the games over steam. Now thinking about the series just makes me sad. It makes me nostalgic for the hope I once had. I still love Garrus and Mordin and all my spacebros, and I don't want to dishonor the work that writers who may have had no influence on the ending put in to make me love those characters.

But the sad fact is this: when I bought Mass Effect 3, the Mass Effect series was my favorite game of all time. Now it's maybe my fourth or fifth favorite, and dropping steadily all the time. I don't hate it, but this was the first game in my entire life I ever really, truly was a FAN of. This was the first time I bought the T-shirt. This was the first time I ever thrust copy after copy of a game into the hands of my friends, breathlessly saying "you...must play this."

I'm not going to boycott. I'm not going to protest.

But unless I get an ending that is actually rational, meaningful, and satisfying, I'm not ever going to recommend this particular game again. I'm not going to buy a new N7 sweatshirt... not out of protest, but because right now, wearing anything ME related, seeing anything ME related, or talking about anything ME related makes me sad, and I wouldn't wish this on anyone.

The reason old games get played is usually word of mouth: it's why I played Chrono Trigger for the first time, years after it came out. It's why I played Suikoden, and KOTOR, and Fallout - because there were people in my life who really loved and believed in these games, and wanted to make sure I had the same wonderful experiences they had.

If Mass Effect had had a good ending, I would have spent the rest of my life breathlessly recommending it to people. I think the people who were most likely to preserve its legacy in this way are the people who are the most alienated, and that's very sad.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 12 avril 2012 - 09:26 .

[Larryboy_Dragon]

Esquin wrote...

We are the majority people. Don't forget that.

[Necrotron]

We are, most likely, not the minority. But there is no perfect evidence.

No one I've talked to enjoyed the endings, and none of them are looking forward to a 'no new ending' extended cut ending DLC.

But, of course, a sample size of twenty or so is still only twenty.

Modifié par Bathaius, 12 avril 2012 - 09:23 .

[Harbinger of your Destiny]

Shajar wrote...

Only minority ever uses forums, talks about it, contact bioware. But when most of minority people hate endings, then its same for all who bought it. They just dont care, but we arent minority even if may look like it

You do realize that the minority that does go on the forums, talks about it on youtube, and cotnacts bioware are the hardcore fans, the fans that will buy anything related to Mass Effect(comics, t-shirts, lithographs, merch) these are the people unhappy with the endings YOU DON'T WANT THESE PEOPLE UNHAPPY WITH YOU.

[OhoniX]

\\We are, most likely, not the minority. But there is no perfect evidence.

No one I've talked to enjoyed the endings, and none of them are looking forward to a 'no new ending' extended cut ending DLC.

But, of course, a sample size of twenty or so is still only twenty.

Well now you have a sample size of 21 and it's now 20:1, which is at least something.

You do realize that the minority that does go on the forums, talks about it on youtube, and cotnacts bioware are the hardcore fans, the fans that will buy anything related to Mass Effect(comics, t-shirts, lithographs, merch) these are the people unhappy with the endings YOU DON'T WANT THESE PEOPLE UNHAPPY WITH YOU.

There's no statistical data that the people aggressively fighting the endings are people who purchase Bioware products in larger proportion to other groups. 890K people bought the game on launch, which one would think would indicate that they were all reasonable serious about the game. Less than 10% of those have expressed serious issues with the ending.

Just because someone is serious about being upset about the ending doesn't mean that under other circumstances they would be more serious than average about buying Bioware products. Also, I tend to think that most of the damage has already been done on this issue, that absolutely nothing that is reasonably within Bioware's means to do would satisfy the hardcore Enders anyways. They could have been satisfied if the "ice cream and Segways" ending had been part of the original game, but since it was not, it's too late to really fix it in a way that will erase whatever consumer angst has arisen.

[The Night Mammoth]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

No, the only statistics we have are the haters are the minority.

We don't have anything of the sort.

There is no statistics on who is the majority.

Correct. 

OP, whilst I appreciate that feel strongly about the issue, there isn't any solid way to prove either way. 

Certainly, those who dislike the ending are a majority on this forum - and you could reasonably assume the people on this forum are the ones BioWare should be trying to keep happy - we have no way of definitively proving that based on the entirety of customers who bought ME3. 

Sure, you could extrapolate the various polls, and the likes on facebook, but the original numbers aren't 100% reliable as far as statistics go. 

[Christianswe]

The ending is sadly horrible.

[Gwtheyrn]

Sohlito wrote...

Oh boy. You do realize the "deserves better fans" folks have already crawled out of the woodwork right? : p

All joking aside though, there are much more constructive ways of getting your point across to the folks at Bioware and other gaming companies with suspect business practices. This, kinda isn't one of them. If one wants to be taken seriously, a rally cry during the already heightened state of ridiculousness this debacle has achieved is counter intuitive in so many ways. I don't think Bioware has forgotten that there is a large number of fans dissatisfied and unhappy, but right now they're going to handle this the best way possible for them as a company. Sucks, but that's the reality of the situation.

Some of us that dislike the ending have adapted a wait and see approach with their "olive branch". I don't know that much else, aside from even MORE ridiculous actions (that will adversely affect the community as a whole), can be done.

To be fair, from the sounds of it, they're going to handle this the best way possible for Casey Hudson's ego, not for the company. After all, we're all just too stupid to comprehend his 'artistic vision' since all we need is MORE clarification.

[howieloader]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

No, the only statistics we have are the haters are the minority.

We don't have anything of the sort.

There is no statistics on who is the majority.

Correct. 

OP, whilst I appreciate that feel strongly about the issue, there isn't any solid way to prove either way. 

Certainly, those who dislike the ending are a majority on this forum - and you could reasonably assume the people on this forum are the ones BioWare should be trying to keep happy - we have no way of definitively proving that based on the entirety of customers who bought ME3. 

Sure, you could extrapolate the various polls, and the likes on facebook, but the original numbers aren't 100% reliable as far as statistics go. 

Another thing is that people are assuming there are two options for reaction, you either hate it or you love it, when in reality there could be any number of possible reactions a person might have to the ending, it's just that the two we discuss are at the forefront of the conversation. For example, PS3 users who never played ME1&2 might think the ending is fine and not understand what the rage is about, their opinion counts and is valid but they are approaching the question from a different angle than those who have played the others...

As far as statistics go, it seems most people on here can't handle and probably just shouldn't discuss them all together because anytime they do they either A) make ridiculous assumptions or twist the data to conform to their own confirmation biases...

AND... In before seemingly inevitable "not story related"

[Dormiglione]

The majority isnt here on this forums. On this forums you find people who care about the product and who are willing to invest their time, giving feedback, reading/answering posts and so on. But its not the majority of the game owners.

[elfshepard]

Meltemph wrote...

0_o

I hated the ending... a lot actually, but it's a bit disturbing that it sounds like your are trying to evangelize. It wouldnt matter if the majority loved the ending... it still was badly written.

Why do you even care if you are the majority? >.>

lol bioware hate has become like a religion

[JamesFaith]

Dormiglione wrote...

The majority isnt here on this forums. On this forums you find people who care about the product and who are willing to invest their time, giving feedback, reading/answering posts and so on. But its not the majority of the game owners.

Exactly. When you assuming rate of people, who don't like end, only by their posts here about how they don't like it, you missed lot of people in your calculation.

At first, like Dormiglione said, not every player is fan. For some people is playing games only fun, nothing more, and they don't want invest more time to them. We donť  know how much of them dislike end.

At second, fans who likes their privacy. They can be real fans, have all books and comics, creating teories with they close friends, but they just haven't need to talk about it with strangers on forums. As example, father of my classmate is nearly sixty, started playing game quite late thanks to his son. He loves ME, he likes ending, but in his age he has no need to arguing with  youngsters on forum about it. Again, you didn't hear from this group.

At third, people, who are more interested in game itself, not only in end. They are here, they debating about characters, technologies, races and such, but they don't want to be involved in arguing about end, which make them another "silent voice".

And last one - people, who like end but don't want to justify themselves for it or arguing about it. Right now is impossible create "possitive acceptance" thread here, where you could speak only about things you like on game. Such threads are immeditiely invaded by opponents of end and they A) just saying they don't like it, trying arguing or demanding explanation, what  "likers" like on end, C) making fun of them + some attacking trolls but they exists on both sides. Such people are slowly chasing out of here, I personally know two guys, who like end, were posting here long time, but they retreated from this place, because they are simply tired of this constant demand "Explain, why you like it?" and attacks on their taste. Absence of such people again optically making group of opponents of end bigger.

I just want to say, that from posts on  forum you could make only one objective conclussion - faction of opponents is LOUD and ACTIVE, but you can't say how big majority or minority they are because you have only fraction of datas.

[Silhouett3]

Minority or not, never before people raged so loudly for a game. And those that rage evidently spends big time and money creating solid-clever content on internet and make good reason for EA to be ashamed. It's logical to assume they are at least part of the core fan base, they spend the most money for all ME related products, give the best feedback and defend the franchise against competitors.

If they won't win us back, the loss will be bigger than just body count.

[OhoniX]

Minority or not, never before people raged so loudly for a game. And those that rage evidently spends big time and money creating solid-clever content on internet and make good reason for EA to be ashamed.

I wonder what the reaction to "Aeris dies!" would have been if FFVII had come out after the Internet was more broadly vibrant.

[Kanon777]

Can someone give me a quote where bioware said the anti-enders are a minority?

[MrHiGhToWeRr]

Not a single one huh.

Then what's this?

www.youtube.com/watch

The problem with dealing with absolutes is that a single contradictory example throws out your argument. Didn't you learn that from the Star Child conversation?

BTW it only took 30 sec of "QUICK" serching youtube for that so don't try and say it was obscure. Next time, try harder.

Modifié par MrHiGhToWeRr, 12 avril 2012 - 02:22 .

[Kanon777]

Can someone give me a quote where bioware said the anti-enders are a minority?

[Kanon777]

Bump, can someone answer my question? Bioware has ever acused anti enders of being the minority? All i remember is them using the word "some" and that dosent equal minority or majority...

some:

adjective
1.being an undetermined or unspecified one: Some person may object.
2.(used with plural nouns) certain: Some days I stay home.
3.of a certain unspecified number, amount, degree, etc.: to some extent.
4.unspecified but considerable in number, amount, degree, etc.: We talked for some time. He was here some weeks.
5.Informal . of impressive or remarkable quality, consequence, extent, etc.: That was some storm.

pronoun
6.certain persons, individuals, instances, etc., not specified: Some think he is dead.
7.an unspecified number, amount, etc., as distinguished from the rest or in addition: He paid a thousand dollars and then some.

adverb
8.(used with numerals and with words expressing degree, extent, etc.) approximately; about: Some 300 were present.
9.Informal . to some degree or extent; somewhat: I like baseball some. She is feeling some better today.
10.Informal . to a great degree or extent; considerably: That's going some.

Modifié par Kanon777, 12 avril 2012 - 03:05 .

[Esquin]

MrHiGhToWeRr wrote...

Not a single one huh.

Then what's this?

www.youtube.com/watch

The problem with dealing with absolutes is that a single contradictory example throws out your argument. Didn't you learn that from the Star Child conversation?

BTW it only took 30 sec of "QUICK" serching youtube for that so don't try and say it was obscure. Next time, try harder.

What search terms were you using? I used multiple searches and never found it. But give me a moment to watch it and i'll tell you why this person doesnt count.

All his statements are opinion based. He doesn't present any real arguments. Just say's oh you're being rude and ridiculous. His argument basically boils down to "You're not entitled to have an opinion on the ending." He is clearly a bioware fanboy who hates the idea of anyone giving them any kind of critisism. He's saying anyone who hates the ending is stupid just because they hate the ending. But make no effort to rebute the reasons for why the ending was bad. 

The thing is that the reasons for the ending being bad are factual. The ending has plot holes, inconsistencies, removes all your choice, gives no closure and character inconsistencies and thematic problems.

He believes we are frustrated because Shepard dies. That is simply not true. He doesn't make any attempt to actually understand our issues. He thinks our issue has to do with Shep dying and thats just wrong. 

Here we go. He gets on to talking about the closure and why we hate the lack of closure. And says that we should be ok with not getting any because it's obvious? That's insane. He keeps bringing it back to Shep dying in most endings. That's not the point. He really makes no good points and ignores all the reasons for why the endings are objectively bad. The guy is not smart and has no understanding of the reasons for why the ending is bad.

[Brawne]

http://www.mmorpg.co...rt-2-The-5.html