74 réponses à ce sujet

[Esquin]

Opsrbest wrote...

So ....... did everyone just skip over the fact that the OP is citing youtube as a source of fact?

No. But it's not about that.

It's about the fact that nowhere has anyone yet been able to present a set of reasoned logical arguments that dispute the reasons for why the ending is bad. It's not yet happened. And I don't think it ever will.

[Fingertrip]

Vocal minority.

Fact.

[tjmax]

FYI bioware never made a remarks that we are a minority or majority. You can be mad at em for a number of things but thats not one of them.

[Esquin]

Fingertrip wrote...

Vocal minority.

Fact.

False. We're the over whelming majority. If you think we're a minority prove it. Better yet. Prove why we're wrong.

Even if we are a vocal minority we still have the facts on our side. The ending is bad. That is a proven fact. 

[N7KnightSabre]

Haha, ohh yes, we are the majority. I hate how they say, We have over 70 reviews of perfect scores. Yeah, the game was good but the last 15 minutes sucked soo bad that your fanbase felt screwed. That's a problem Bioware.

[Esquin]

Opsrbest wrote...

Esquin wrote...

Opsrbest wrote...

So ....... did everyone just skip over the fact that the OP is citing youtube as a source of fact?

No. But it's not about that.

It's about the fact that nowhere has anyone yet been able to present a set of reasoned logical arguments that dispute the reasons for why the ending is bad. It's not yet happened. And I don't think it ever will.

But ......... you're using youtube to prove your point. Theres threads. On this very forum.

You're using youtube to prove your point.

I've read those threads. Not one of them addresses the reaasons for why the ending is bad. No one has been able to dismiss the reasons for why the ending is bad. No one can explain the teleporting squadmates, or Jokers decision to run away. Let alone how synthesis works within the science of the mass effect universe. No one can do it.

[Gormane01]

Remember, for every 1 complaint you receive, there is 9 other people who(whilst still unhappy) didn't bother to complain.

The forums are a minority, but the number of posts and the speed of the posts shows it's not a 'small' minority. As far as forums go... this is insane.

[TheDarkShape]

I'm going to completely shatter your world: sometimes people like things that you don't like.  And you are not judge and juror of what a 'reasoned argument' is.

Modifié par TheDarkShape, 13 avril 2012 - 12:32 .

[Grasich]

I don't even see how some people are still debating this.

[AkeasharK]

Esquin wrote...

Fingertrip wrote...

Vocal minority.

Fact.

False. We're the over whelming majority. If you think we're a minority prove it. Better yet. Prove why we're wrong.

Even if we are a vocal minority we still have the facts on our side. The ending is bad. That is a proven fact. 

Opinion =/= Fact

Having watched some of the videos 'proving' the endings are bad, I've found them so laughably full of circular arguments and internal contradictions theres no point trying to convince them of any opinion besides their own.

Until you can ask every single person that has bought and played the game all the way to the end what their opinion is, any and all assumptions and polls are invalid. Particularly with 'the endings suck' since I know 'for a fact' that there are people perpetuating that opinion who haven't even bought or played the games through themselves to see what they think of the entirety in context.

[MrTijger]

Esquin wrote...

False. We're the over whelming majority. If you think we're a minority prove it. Better yet. Prove why we're wrong.

Even if we are a vocal minority we still have the facts on our side. The ending is bad. That is a proven fact. 

*laughs* Maybe you need to learn the difference between fact and opinion.

[N7KnightSabre]

mbr.to wrote...

as Shajar said: a minority uses the forums.

and there are wide variations of what people think about the ending,
some want closure/explanation and some want it changed.

so its acutally a minority within a minority.

There are people who don't use the forums who played the game, that doesn't mean that they liked the ending. 

There are a wide variation of people who differ on specifically what they felt the ending needed.  Closure/explanation/simple hatred, But this does show that Bioware didn't deliver a successful ending.  If it was well done there wouldn't be people wanting closure or an explanation.

[Grasich]

Gormane01 wrote...

Remember, for every 1 complaint you receive, there is 9 other people who(whilst still unhappy) didn't bother to complain.

The forums are a minority, but the number of posts and the speed of the posts shows it's not a 'small' minority. As far as forums go... this is insane.

If I remember the "official" number for this correctly, it's 1 complaint = 25 unhappy people.

[Esquin]

AkeasharK wrote...

Esquin wrote...

Fingertrip wrote...

Vocal minority.

Fact.

False. We're the over whelming majority. If you think we're a minority prove it. Better yet. Prove why we're wrong.

Even if we are a vocal minority we still have the facts on our side. The ending is bad. That is a proven fact. 

Opinion =/= Fact

Having watched some of the videos 'proving' the endings are bad, I've found them so laughably full of circular arguments and internal contradictions theres no point trying to convince them of any opinion besides their own.

Until you can ask every single person that has bought and played the game all the way to the end what their opinion is, any and all assumptions and polls are invalid. Particularly with 'the endings suck' since I know 'for a fact' that there are people perpetuating that opinion who haven't even bought or played the games through themselves to see what they think of the entirety in context.

I'll issue the same challenge to you that I have issued to everyone else who made such claims.

Tell me why the reasons for the ending being bad are wrong. Debate and dismiss every arguemtn. Then i'll listen. If the arguements for it being bad are so wrong then this should be an easy task for you.

[jsadalia]

YouTube postings only Bizarro evidence. Me so sad. Me want to cry.

[leapingmonkeys]

OhoniX wrote...

^ This - so many people seem to forget that it's impossible to get information from the entire fanbase, like with scientific/psychology experiments you have to take a sample and generalise the results to the entire group you're looking at. That's the scientific (Right) way of gathering information and utilizing it.

But nobody has attempted a scientific poll. Every datapoint on this issue comes from self-selecting polling/sources, which are wildly inaccurate. The basic principle is that if 50 people are really irate about something, and 50 are not, and then you give those 100 people the option of spending a moment of their time registering that perspective, then more of the irate people will sign in than the non-irate ones, and suddenly you have 40 people who hate the product and 10 people who don't, so clearly if 80% of the respondents hated it then another 40 out of the remaining 50 must hate it too, instead of just 10 of them.

To EVER claim that a poll has any validity beyond EXACTLY what it says (ie "out of a thousand IGN readers, 60% of them said X") the polling must be done scientifically, in which the sampling group is randomly chosen fro the total population, such that if 50 are for and 50 are against, and you polled 50 people total, then statistically speaking you'd get about 25 on each side, give or take the margin of error.

Neither group can claim to a definite majority here.

I'm not saying the Enders are definitely in the minority, or that non-Enders are definitely in the majority, just that it CANNOT be claimed that Enders have any definite majority without backing it up using scientifically rigorous data, and so far nobody has presented any.

Ah, but there is a widely cited study done by the White House Office of Consumer Affairs that concluded that 96% of customers who are unhappy with a product won't bother to complain to the company.  That means for every customer who does complain, there are, statisticly, 24 more who are unhappy but won't bother to complain.

I've seen plenty of survery showing upwards of 50,000 voters indicating they are unhappy with ME3.  The Retake facebook page has more than 60,000 likes.  The basic math would suggest that there are more than 1 million users unhappy with ME3 based on the number who have taken the time to actively complain about the game.

Yes, it is statistics so there is uncertainity in the numbers, but all indications are that the number of people unhappy with ME3 is significant.

[lonedude73]

Sorry if I can't make a video.
But all of you should know their a argument for every thing Mass Effect
Some people cured the genophage and some people didn't
Some people made pace with geth and quarians and some people didn't
Some people like the ending and some people didn't.
If you can't accept other peoples opinions the your selfish.
I guess there is only one thing to do.
Deal with it. 

Modifié par lonedude73, 13 avril 2012 - 12:42 .

[lonedude73]

did I kill this thread.

[OhoniX]

Remember, for every 1 complaint you receive, there is 9 other people who(whilst still unhappy) didn't bother to complain.

And also 500 other people (who were happy with the ending) who also didn't complain. Or maybe 499, it's hard to say, because they didn't say.

[77boy84]

The BSN is full of people angry about the endings, almost overwhelmingly so.
Every discussion of mass effect on any other site almost always turns to the ending and how bad it is.
It's amazon and metacritic scores have both tanked because of so many people angry about the ending.
People, all over, agree that the ending is terrible.

And yet, we're the vocal minority because Bioware and a few gaming sites in EA's pocket says so.

[Baa Baa]

GameInformer is trying to get people to think that as well. In the latest issue they say not to listen to what SOME fans say about the ending. We are not some, we are the majority. BioWare is just trying to convince other people who are new to Mass Effect and have yet to beat it, to like the ending just because they're saying "If you don't, you'll be a minority," which is entirely false.

[sUiCiDeKiNgS13]

My entire D-line and O-line bought this game at midnight when it came out. We all beat it within 4-5 days. Out of the 11 of us, 8 were disappointed/frustrated by the ending while the other 2 thought it was ok. Not great, just ok, which they said was kind of a letdown to how awesome the whole game was. 1 returned it because he said that he would rather have The Witcher than that "nonsense". Out of all of us, only two, my roommate and I, post on forums and the internet. We were the only ones to vote in Bioware's poll and like the retake thread, I unliked it a few days ago. My point is that only 2 out of 11 of ME3's target audience thought the games finale was just ok. We all loved the ride, but it didn't matter because the bus drove off into a tree, and that's all we remembered.

BTW- I know this is a small group of people, but it kind of struck a note that not everyone is an internet poster. Just those of us who prefer to add to forums.

Modifié par sUiCiDeKiNgS13, 13 avril 2012 - 08:23 .

[KingKhan03]

sUiCiDeKiNgS13 wrote...

My entire D-line and O-line bought this game at midnight when it came out. We all beat it within 4-5 days. Out of the 11 of us, 8 were disappointed/frustrated by the ending while the other 2 thought it was ok. Not great, just ok, which they said was kind of a letdown to how awesome the whole game was. 1 returned it because he said that he would rather have The Witcher than that "nonsense". Out of all of us, only two, my roommate and I, post on forums and the internet. We were the only ones to vote in Bioware's poll and like the retake thread, I unliked it a few days ago. My point is that only 2 out of 11 of ME3's target audience thought the games finale was just ok. We all loved the ride, but it didn't matter because the bus drove off into a tree, and that's all we remembered.

BTW- I know this is a small group of people, but it kind of struck a note that not everyone is an internet poster. Just those of us who prefer to add to forums.

This is absolutely relevant the majority of my friends who play mass effect disliked the ending. You can only go by personal experience in this case.

[Ziggeh]

Grasich wrote...

If I remember the "official" number for this correctly, it's 1 complaint = 25 unhappy people.

I'd love to know what industry and complaints system that's based on. It gets quoted a lot (not just here) and taken on faith that it's applicable (which is massively unlikely in this case). Frustrating.