211 réponses à ce sujet

[Amberion]

elfshepard wrote...

Amberion wrote...

elfshepard wrote...

Yes but why turn yourself over to the Alliance. Basically you ignored the question

Because shepard actually cares about the political situation and how the blowback with the batarians would affect the alliance's military readiness. She knows the reapers are coming, and the Alliance simply cannot affort to be fighting a war with the batarians. So she turned herself in to defuse tensions and show the batarians that the alliance is willing to take responsibility for their own. This averted a war, and saved human lives that could then go on to fight the reapers.

But all Shepard did was press a button, the Alliance set up the whole thing. They were planning to do it even before Shepard got involved. So why do the Batarians care so much about Shepard they should be pissed at the Alliance regardless.

They are pissed off at the alliance. Shepard turning herself in was a tactic designed to avert full out war. If shepard is put on trial and punished, the batarians lose their excuse to attack the alliance. If shepard had not been tried, the batarians would have viewed it as 'the alliance did this to us intentionally, it was not the act of one rogue agent' and attacked.

[elfshepard]

elfshepard wrote...

VolusvsReaper wrote...

elfshepard wrote...

I'm actually suprised that more people have not thought about this. And here I was thinking this was one of the major plotholes.

Considering the number of posts you have replied with, you are one of the few people who consider this a plot hole.

Yeah that's what I figured

My opinion is obviously in the minority here. I can respect that.

[Amberion]

elfshepard wrote...

Amberion wrote...

He's a Spectre they should blame the Council. And the Alliance was planning on destroyng the system anyway so why are they blaming Shepard.

Shepard is human. The batarians hate humans and they have a tendency to blame the alliance for just about anything they can get away with. Killing 300,000 batarian civilians and destroying a mass relay is a PRIME excuse for the hegemony to go full out war. It's just an excuse to get revenge for horning in on 'their' prime real estate. It doesn't matter who blew up the relay; all the batarians care about is that a human did it. thus, the alliance is to blame, and oh hey maybe we should glass a few of their planets and destroy a relay, maybe the charon relay, just to show them how it feels like!

But arresting Shepard should not make the Batarians less angry because all he did was do what the Alliance was going to do on its own anyway if its people had not been indoctrinated.

The batarians will be angry regardless. but you're missing one critical political element: the council. The batarians don't have an embassy on the council, the humans are a MEMBER of the council. If they didn't put shepard on trial, the council races might not have defended the humans... it's a toss-up. but if the batarians had attacked after the alliance put shepard on trial? damn straight the batarians would have been crushed by the combined council races.

[elfshepard]

Amberion wrote...

elfshepard wrote...

Amberion wrote...

elfshepard wrote...

Yes but why turn yourself over to the Alliance. Basically you ignored the question

Because shepard actually cares about the political situation and how the blowback with the batarians would affect the alliance's military readiness. She knows the reapers are coming, and the Alliance simply cannot affort to be fighting a war with the batarians. So she turned herself in to defuse tensions and show the batarians that the alliance is willing to take responsibility for their own. This averted a war, and saved human lives that could then go on to fight the reapers.

But all Shepard did was press a button, the Alliance set up the whole thing. They were planning to do it even before Shepard got involved. So why do the Batarians care so much about Shepard they should be pissed at the Alliance regardless.

They are pissed off at the alliance. Shepard turning herself in was a tactic designed to avert full out war. If shepard is put on trial and punished, the batarians lose their excuse to attack the alliance. If shepard had not been tried, the batarians would have viewed it as 'the alliance did this to us intentionally, it was not the act of one rogue agent' and attacked.

Thats like being happy that a murderer is put on trial but not the guy who planned the murder and gave the murderer a gun.

[sponge56]

elfshepard wrote...

But that is my point.

Bioware makes so many choices irrlevent.

It should have been an Earth trial if you were not a Spectre but a Council  trial if you were

But that would have completely altered the start of mass effect 3.  There would be two possible beginnings, one on earth and one on the citadel, and while sounding cool, its probaly to complicated to have done like that.  And do you honestly believe the council would want to be involved?  They would have denied having any knowledge (which they didnt in the first place) and seeing as the alliance already probaly told the batarians it was all shepards fault, there was no need for the council to get involved

[Embrosil]

First, in ME2 you are a partial Specter. You have a Specter authority in Terminus systems only. Second, my Shepard turned himself in. You know, killing 300k living beings is something he was prepared to answer for. He is not Saren, who kills innocents in a blink of an eye, just because he is a Specter. So I have no problem with that.

[elfshepard]

[quote]elfshepard wrote...

[quote]Amberion wrote...

[quote]elfshepard wrote...

[quote]Amberion wrote...

[quote]elfshepard wrote...

Yes but why turn yourself over to the Alliance. Basically you ignored the question[/quote]Because shepard actually cares about the political situation and how the blowback with the batarians would affect the alliance's military readiness. She knows the reapers are coming, and the Alliance simply cannot affort to be fighting a war with the batarians. So she turned herself in to defuse tensions and show the batarians that the alliance is willing to take responsibility for their own. This averted a war, and saved human lives that could then go on to fight the reapers.
[/quote]

But all Shepard did was press a button, the Alliance set up the whole thing. They were planning to do it even before Shepard got involved. So why do the Batarians care so much about Shepard they should be pissed at the Alliance regardless. [/quote]They are pissed off at the alliance. Shepard turning herself in was a tactic designed to avert full out war. If shepard is put on trial and punished, the batarians lose their excuse to attack the alliance. If shepard had not been tried, the batarians would have viewed it as 'the alliance did this to us intentionally, it was not the act of one rogue agent' and attacked.
[/quote]

Obviously the Alliance did it intentionally.  Its not like Shepard put thrusters on an asteriod the Alliance did.

[elfshepard]

sponge56 wrote...

elfshepard wrote...

But that is my point.

Bioware makes so many choices irrlevent.

It should have been an Earth trial if you were not a Spectre but a Council  trial if you were

 And do you honestly believe the council would want to be involved?  They would have denied having any knowledge (which they didnt in the first place) and seeing as the alliance already probaly told the batarians it was all shepards fault, there was no need for the council to get involved

Yeah but if a Spectre goes does something wrong the Council must strip him of his Spectre status like they did Saren. And for that they at least need to determine wether Shepard did the right thing or not.

[elfshepard]

Embrosil wrote...

First, in ME2 you are a partial Specter. You have a Specter authority in Terminus systems only. Second, my Shepard turned himself in. You know, killing 300k living beings is something he was prepared to answer for. He is not Saren, who kills innocents in a blink of an eye, just because he is a Specter. So I have no problem with that.

My point is choices should matter.

[elfshepard]

Ok I've had enough of replying. I've made my point. You either agree or you don't and most people don't

Thanks for the reply's everyone

[Amberion]

elfshepard wrote...

sponge56 wrote...

elfshepard wrote...

But that is my point.

Bioware makes so many choices irrlevent.

It should have been an Earth trial if you were not a Spectre but a Council  trial if you were

 And do you honestly believe the council would want to be involved?  They would have denied having any knowledge (which they didnt in the first place) and seeing as the alliance already probaly told the batarians it was all shepards fault, there was no need for the council to get involved

Yeah but if a Spectre goes does something wrong the Council must strip him of his Spectre status like they did Saren. And for that they at least need to determine wether Shepard did the right thing or not.

The details of Shepard's trial were never elaborated upon. For all we know, they did strip her of her spectre status prior to ME3. It's restored later on no matter what, anyway.

[elfshepard]

Amberion wrote...

elfshepard wrote...

sponge56 wrote...

elfshepard wrote...

But that is my point.

Bioware makes so many choices irrlevent.

It should have been an Earth trial if you were not a Spectre but a Council  trial if you were

 And do you honestly believe the council would want to be involved?  They would have denied having any knowledge (which they didnt in the first place) and seeing as the alliance already probaly told the batarians it was all shepards fault, there was no need for the council to get involved

Yeah but if a Spectre goes does something wrong the Council must strip him of his Spectre status like they did Saren. And for that they at least need to determine wether Shepard did the right thing or not.

The details of Shepard's trial were never elaborated upon. For all we know, they did strip her of her spectre status prior to ME3. It's restored later on no matter what, anyway.

Actually if you are a Spectre Anderson says so near the begining

[lewis251]

Shepard is also arrested for being part/working with Cerbeus, I don't have arrival DLC so in ME3 Andreson doesn't mention it and simple says "**** you've done" and some Alliance marines did arrival blowing up a relay stuff.

Cerbeus is an terrorist organizations so Alliance do have the right to arrest shepard, they even tired to do it several times in ME2 but were stopped by hackett, hell even the council tired to arrest you but were stopped by Anderson.

[tobiasks]

Because the Batarians are after the alliance, not the council.

[elfshepard]

lewis251 wrote...

Shepard is also arrested for being part/working with Cerbeus, I don't have arrival DLC so in ME3 Andreson doesn't mention it and simple says "**** you've done" and some Alliance marines did arrival blowing up a relay stuff.

Cerbeus is an terrorist organizations so Alliance do have the right to arrest shepard, they even tired to do it several times in ME2 but were stopped by hackett, hell even the council tired to arrest you but were stopped by Anderson.


I thought Spectres were allowed to deal with shady organisations for the greater good like Vasir blew up buildings for the Shadow Broker.

[elfshepard]

OK now I'm really finished replying

[MrTijger]

elfshepard wrote...

Thats like being happy that a murderer is put on trial but not the guy who planned the murder and gave the murderer a gun.

Welcome to politics

I see your argument btw, but I would point out that Arrival isnt a Spectre mission, its an Alliance mission undertaken at the request of Hackett, not the Council so hence the Spectre status doesnt come into play, or at least thats how I see it.

[Kakita Tatsumaru]

Robhuzz wrote...
The whole idea of a Spectre having 'unlimited power' and being 'above the law' is only partially true.
Yes, while on the citadel or on citadel colony worlds, the council vouches for the Spectre, keeping him/her out of the law's hands. However the council does not have any say in the independent governments of it's member species. If a Spectre went down to Earth and gunned down a dozen people, law enforcement would just arrest the Spectre and there's nothing the council can do to get him/her out, they do not have any power or influence down on Earth, except appeal to the respective government or threaten them with a diplomatic incident.
So yeah... so much for being above the law.

Considering what we saw in Shadow broker DLC and the kind of immunity diplomat have IRL, I think it's just one more lazy move from Bioware, like everything concerning Shepard in ME3 which have a cannon personality.

[Wulfram]

Working with Cerberus to protect the galaxy is well within the duties of a Spectre.  And my Shepard reported in to Anderson and the council ASAP, which should really clear that up.

[lewis251]

elfshepard wrote...

lewis251 wrote...

Shepard is also arrested for being part/working with Cerbeus, I don't have arrival DLC so in ME3 Andreson doesn't mention it and simple says "**** you've done" and some Alliance marines did arrival blowing up a relay stuff.

Cerbeus is an terrorist organizations so Alliance do have the right to arrest shepard, they even tired to do it several times in ME2 but were stopped by hackett, hell even the council tired to arrest you but were stopped by Anderson.


I thought Spectres were allowed to deal with shady organisations for the greater good like Vasir blew up buildings for the Shadow Broker.

it's impled (not proven ) that the council were unaware that Vasir was working for the shadow broker, with shep stating it wouldn't be allowed and she'd lose her status (again not proven) and even so Cerbeus is an Terroist Organization and an enemy to both the council and Allinace, with anyone caught working with arrested, only reason why Shepard wasn't arrested is becuase he made a deal with the council and hackett.


masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Shadow_Broker_Dossiers/Admiral_Steven_Hackett- hackett stopped them




 

[elfshepard]

MrTijger wrote...

elfshepard wrote...

Thats like being happy that a murderer is put on trial but not the guy who planned the murder and gave the murderer a gun.

Welcome to politics

I see your argument btw, but I would point out that Arrival isnt a Spectre mission, its an Alliance mission undertaken at the request of Hackett, not the Council so hence the Spectre status doesnt come into play, or at least thats how I see it.

Spectres operate independently most of the time. There is not much of a chain of command or many official missions. Spectres just do what they think is for the greater good whenever they can. It's a full time job.

[Roamingmachine]

The whole trial farce was just a way to have Shepard to be on earth when the reapers came to reap.A cheap plot device.The lore states clearly that spectres answer to the council alone.In ME1 Hackett even tells you he can't give you orders anymore and you can tell the admiral coming to inspect your ship to go pound sand. Why they even kept the 'commander' title for Shepard is beyond me.Shepard was in the councils employ the moment he was inducted, not the alliance military. I attribute this mess to bad writing on the development teams part.

[elfshepard]

elfshepard wrote...

MrTijger wrote...

elfshepard wrote...

Thats like being happy that a murderer is put on trial but not the guy who planned the murder and gave the murderer a gun.

Welcome to politics

I see your argument btw, but I would point out that Arrival isnt a Spectre mission, its an Alliance mission undertaken at the request of Hackett, not the Council so hence the Spectre status doesnt come into play, or at least thats how I see it.

Spectres operate independently most of the time. There is not much of a chain of command or many official missions. Spectres just do what they think is for the greater good whenever they can. It's a full time job.

I think that was my last post I've actually got to go now.

[Pinkeye60]

My take on this is that iirc the batarians are not a council species (they rescinded their membership and severed all relations), so I guess council law would not apply. On top of this the mission was from the Alliance as a hush hush favor and I'm guessing the human race would be top of the list of enemy's after the batarian system was destroyed by a human commander of a pro-human ship (judging by the comic with Vega).
By turning himself/herself into the alliance (who's misson it was, no matter how black ops) the human race is being seen to do something about the situation and this averting another batarian conflict. The council washed their hands of it by not having any diplomatic agreement with the batarians so it resolved down to the next authority inline.

Modifié par Pinkeye60, 12 avril 2012 - 10:43 .

[78stonewobble]

It's a debriefing not an arrest?

Well I took it as Shepard returning to light a fire under the Alliance to prepare for the Reaper attack.