211 réponses à ce sujet

[Farbautisonn]

chengthao wrote...

it can all be explained in one sentence

bad writing

hence the "ending is supposed to make us think"

i call it bad writng

If the entire intro, and the entire end plus various parts of the middle has "bad writing" stamped on it, what the hell does that say about the game?

You coulc have lifted a trial plot from Crichton, an officer from a Clancy novel, you could have watched a trial flic, hell you could have hired a Pol Sci or History or even a sociology student to proofread, or you could have asked for one on the boards to proofread pro bono.

Plus... "we fight or we die" plus "we are beyond tactics and strategy" would NEVER come from the mouth of Shepard. He is N7/Seal Team 6. Tactics and strategy is all he is. Blunt force trauma is for jarhead marines or Legionnaires. And even those are significantly more tactically trained these days than they were 40 years ago.

It makes no sense. "Bad writing" isnt an excuse. If anything its an aggrivating circumstance.

[Ericus]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

And lastly - politics. You can't escape from politics, even in space. Just because he is a Specter, doesnt' mean he can do anything he wants and he can get away with it. The Council could easily abandom him if he becomes too politicly inconvenient.

You could easily see this happening given the Council's position on the Reapers.

[Farbautisonn]

Wulfram wrote...

Farbautisonn wrote...

-Thats alot of "maybe's" and still doesnt explain why the alliance greatest asset and the most knowledgeable person about the reapers is kept in the BRIG not a Lab or in some warcollege. No. Instead we keep him locked up/confined to the brig, and have him sit on his hands for six months. Because for all we know and according to shep himself, thats pretty much what happened.

In fairness, he was kept in brig conveniently located so that he could be consulted by alliance command whenever they wanted.

I suppose a hologram transmission from a lab or a warcollege was out of the question. Budget costs...

[chengthao]

Rudy Lis wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

As far as the galaxy is concenrned, the reapers dont' exist. Hence, Shep blew up an entire system for no proper reason.

Of course, there are no vid-cams in future...
Oh, wait, they are - message from Eden prime at very beginning of ME1.

Sarcasm may dwell there.

what's ilogical is . . . . why doesn't Shepard just carry a helmet cam, today's modern SpecOp teams do it, so . . . . why doesn't Shepard, especially if s/he knows that s/he needs evidence/proof of the Reapers

Modifié par chengthao, 12 avril 2012 - 12:58 .

[Anareth]

elfshepard wrote...

I think Bioware really hyped Spectres up in ME1 and then they just bulldozed over the lore in ME3 to make it easier for themselves.

Holy sextuple post Batman!

[Rudy Lis]

Farbautisonn wrote...

"Bad writing" isnt an excuse.

It's diagnosis.

chengthao wrote...

what's ilogical is . . . . why doesn't Shepard just carry a helmet cam, today's modern SpecOp teams do it, so . . . . why doesn't Shepard, especially if s/he knows that s/he needs evidence/proof of the Reapers

Common sense.
Some just don't have it.

Modifié par Rudy Lis, 12 avril 2012 - 01:00 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Farbautisonn wrote...
-Thats alot of "maybe's" and still doesnt explain why the alliance greatest asset and the most knowledgeable person about the reapers is kept in the BRIG not a Lab or in some warcollege. No. Instead we keep him locked up/confined to the brig, and have him sit on his hands for six months. Because for all we know and according to shep himself, thats pretty much what happened.

Not really.

Shep is not the alliances greatest asset. We know he's the hero and the one who will stop the reapers, but realisticly, there's no way anyone in the the universe could know that. He's just one grunt who was in the right place at the right time last time. There's no reason whatsoever for ANYONE to consider Shepard a irreplecable war asset.


Also, his knowledge of the reaepres can be easily summarized in a few sentances. Debrief him, write down his knowledge and spread it around. No need to keep him.
What could he teach in the war college about fighting reapers anyway?

[chengthao]

Farbautisonn wrote...

chengthao wrote...

it can all be explained in one sentence

bad writing

hence the "ending is supposed to make us think"

i call it bad writng

If the entire intro, and the entire end plus various parts of the middle has "bad writing" stamped on it, what the hell does that say about the game?

You coulc have lifted a trial plot from Crichton, an officer from a Clancy novel, you could have watched a trial flic, hell you could have hired a Pol Sci or History or even a sociology student to proofread, or you could have asked for one on the boards to proofread pro bono.

Plus... "we fight or we die" plus "we are beyond tactics and strategy" would NEVER come from the mouth of Shepard. He is N7/Seal Team 6. Tactics and strategy is all he is. Blunt force trauma is for jarhead marines or Legionnaires. And even those are significantly more tactically trained these days than they were 40 years ago.

It makes no sense. "Bad writing" isnt an excuse. If anything its an aggrivating circumstance.

BW =/= proper miltary portrayal

so i simply ignore it, it used to bother me but well . . . . there's really nothing i can do so i just ignore it

as to the plot holes and illogical common sense . . . . that's just bad/lazy writing . . . . somebody didn't double check, somebody didn't plan things out, etc, etc

[chengthao]

Farbautisonn wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Farbautisonn wrote...

-Thats alot of "maybe's" and still doesnt explain why the alliance greatest asset and the most knowledgeable person about the reapers is kept in the BRIG not a Lab or in some warcollege. No. Instead we keep him locked up/confined to the brig, and have him sit on his hands for six months. Because for all we know and according to shep himself, thats pretty much what happened.

In fairness, he was kept in brig conveniently located so that he could be consulted by alliance command whenever they wanted.

I suppose a hologram transmission from a lab or a warcollege was out of the question. Budget costs...

apparently according to the in-game writing . . . it was

[Lotion Soronarr]

chengthao wrote...

Rudy Lis wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

As far as the galaxy is concenrned, the reapers dont' exist. Hence, Shep blew up an entire system for no proper reason.

Of course, there are no vid-cams in future...
Oh, wait, they are - message from Eden prime at very beginning of ME1.

Sarcasm may dwell there.

what's ilogical is . . . . why doesn't Shepard just carry a helmet cam, today's modern SpecOp teams do it, so . . . . why doesn't Shepard, especially if s/he knows that s/he needs evidence/proof of the Reapers

But he does. ME1 mentiones "suit recordings".
However, they are as believable as a shaky cammera recording of a UFO.  You can easily dismiss it as a fabrication anyway.

Remember - the galaxy think Sovereign was a geth flagship.

[chengthao]

Rudy Lis wrote...

chengthao wrote...

what's ilogical is . . . . why doesn't Shepard just carry a helmet cam, today's modern SpecOp teams do it, so . . . . why doesn't Shepard, especially if s/he knows that s/he needs evidence/proof of the Reapers

Common sense.
Some just don't have it.

but you'd at least expect it from a seasoned N7 operative

[Rudy Lis]

chengthao wrote...

BW =/= proper miltary portrayal

so i simply ignore it, it used to bother me but well . . . . there's really nothing i can do so i just ignore it

as to the plot holes and illogical common sense . . . . that's just bad/lazy writing . . . . somebody didn't double check, somebody didn't plan things out, etc, etc

Should game provided in many other areas, I'd let it slide probably. But with existing state there are too much holes I cannot ignore. There is just too much of them.

[chengthao]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

chengthao wrote...

Rudy Lis wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

As far as the galaxy is concenrned, the reapers dont' exist. Hence, Shep blew up an entire system for no proper reason.

Of course, there are no vid-cams in future...
Oh, wait, they are - message from Eden prime at very beginning of ME1.

Sarcasm may dwell there.

what's ilogical is . . . . why doesn't Shepard just carry a helmet cam, today's modern SpecOp teams do it, so . . . . why doesn't Shepard, especially if s/he knows that s/he needs evidence/proof of the Reapers

But he does. ME1 mentiones "suit recordings".
However, they are as believable as a shaky cammera recording of a UFO.  You can easily dismiss it as a fabrication anyway.

Remember - the galaxy think Sovereign was a geth flagship.

so they believed an audio recording but won't believe actual footage and audio

Modifié par chengthao, 12 avril 2012 - 01:06 .

[chengthao]

Rudy Lis wrote...

chengthao wrote...

BW =/= proper miltary portrayal

so i simply ignore it, it used to bother me but well . . . . there's really nothing i can do so i just ignore it

as to the plot holes and illogical common sense . . . . that's just bad/lazy writing . . . . somebody didn't double check, somebody didn't plan things out, etc, etc

Should game provided in many other areas, I'd let it slide probably. But with existing state there are too much holes I cannot ignore. There is just too much of them.

the plot holes are annoying and shouldn't be ignored (for the most part)

the terrible representation of the military i can ignore

[Rudy Lis]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Remember - the galaxy think Sovereign was a geth flagship.

Because they've been told to believe in it.

chengthao wrote...

but you'd at least expect it from a seasoned N7 operative

Judging by Shep's behavior in ME3 I doubt he is N7 and LtCdr. I haven't heard such imbecilic questions from youngest recruits from some backwater villages without telephone. Not cell phone - landline.

chengthao wrote...

so they believed an audio recording but won't believe actual footage and audio

Another hole in colander.

chengthao wrote...

the plot holes are annoying and shouldn't be ignored (for the most part)

the terrible representation of the military i can ignore

For me military representation is still hole. Should it be one and only hole in game - I'd ignore it. But it is one of many, so what for to plug it? It's like colander - you won't turn it into dipper just plugging one of holes.

[chengthao]

Rudy Lis wrote...

chengthao wrote...

the plot holes are annoying and shouldn't be ignored (for the most part)

the terrible representation of the military i can ignore

For me military representation is still hole. Should it be one and only hole in game - I'd ignore it. But it is one of many, so what for to plug it? It's like colander - you won't turn it into dipper just plugging one of holes.

well i've ignored it since ME1 so i guess its more 2nd nature to me, the story plot holes though . . . . well they're annoying, especially the horrible ending

[Farbautisonn]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Not really.

Shep is not the alliances greatest asset. We know he's the hero and the one who will stop the reapers, but realisticly, there's no way anyone in the the universe could know that. He's just one grunt who was in the right place at the right time last time. There's no reason whatsoever for ANYONE to consider Shepard a irreplecable war asset.


Also, his knowledge of the reaepres can be easily summarized in a few sentances. Debrief him, write down his knowledge and spread it around. No need to keep him.
What could he teach in the war college about fighting reapers anyway?

-Id really like to know who is then. TIM perhaps? 

He has been inside Reaper tech, fought reaper tech, been instrumental in killing a reaper, aquired reaper tech, etc. If he isnt the greatest asset, then he is in the top ten. All the more reason to keep him in a warcollege where he could offer tactical advice for small unit tactics (fighting husks, the indoctrinated et al), strategy for officers, and whatever else. I consider him pretty irreplaceable. If I were fighting a space holocaust Id have stuck Shepard in any number of places but never the brig.

So... would you care to "summarize" his knowledge then? 

[Rudy Lis]

chengthao wrote...

well i've ignored it since ME1 so i guess its more 2nd nature to me, the story plot holes though . . . . well they're annoying, especially the horrible ending

If it was only the ending and military representation, but perfect rest - I think many ignored that. ME3 problem is overall mediocre level and ending is just concentration of all problems. That's why I think there is no artistic integrity, just ruthless calculation.

[chengthao]

Farbautisonn wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Not really.

Shep is not the alliances greatest asset. We know he's the hero and the one who will stop the reapers, but realisticly, there's no way anyone in the the universe could know that. He's just one grunt who was in the right place at the right time last time. There's no reason whatsoever for ANYONE to consider Shepard a irreplecable war asset.


Also, his knowledge of the reaepres can be easily summarized in a few sentances. Debrief him, write down his knowledge and spread it around. No need to keep him.
What could he teach in the war college about fighting reapers anyway?

-Id really like to know who is then. TIM perhaps? 

He has been inside Reaper tech, fought reaper tech, been instrumental in killing a reaper, aquired reaper tech, etc. If he isnt the greatest asset, then he is in the top ten. All the more reason to keep him in a warcollege where he could offer tactical advice for small unit tactics (fighting husks, the indoctrinated et al), strategy for officers, and whatever else. I consider him pretty irreplaceable. If I were fighting a space holocaust Id have stuck Shepard in any number of places but never the brig.

So... would you care to "summarize" his knowledge then? 

his advice was "we fight or we die"

yeah . . .  . maybe that's what he told the Brass the first time and so they just said "this guy/girl is an idiot" and then threw him into the brig

[Farbautisonn]

chengthao wrote...

his advice was "we fight or we die"

yeah . . .  . maybe that's what he told the Brass the first time and so they just said "this guy/girl is an idiot" and then threw him into the brig

-As if a Seal Team Six/N7 member would ever utter such stupidity. It goes against everything we have learned about shephard... he is many things, but he is not a moron.

[chengthao]

Rudy Lis wrote...

chengthao wrote...

well i've ignored it since ME1 so i guess its more 2nd nature to me, the story plot holes though . . . . well they're annoying, especially the horrible ending

If it was only the ending and military representation, but perfect rest - I think many ignored that. ME3 problem is overall mediocre level and ending is just concentration of all problems. That's why I think there is no artistic integrity, just ruthless calculation.

i'm not saying the ending is the only plot hole, just that its the worst

as for the military representation . . . idk too many games that actually portray the military realistically

[chengthao]

Farbautisonn wrote...

chengthao wrote...

his advice was "we fight or we die"

yeah . . .  . maybe that's what he told the Brass the first time and so they just said "this guy/girl is an idiot" and then threw him into the brig

-As if a Seal Team Six/N7 member would ever utter such stupidity. It goes against everything we have learned about shephard... he is many things, but he is not a moron.

apparently . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . he is

[Rudy Lis]

chengthao wrote...

i'm not saying the ending is the only plot hole, just that its the worst

That's why I think it was done on purpose.

chengthao wrote...

as for the military representation . . . idk too many games that actually portray the military realistically

There are enough of them. Ironically, many, if not all military plot holes could be corrected with lesser amount of writing we've done here in this thread.

chengthao wrote...

apparently . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . he is

Yeah, in ME3. He behave like hero of bad comedy.

Modifié par Rudy Lis, 12 avril 2012 - 01:21 .

[chengthao]

Rudy Lis wrote...

chengthao wrote...

as for the military representation . . . idk too many games that actually portray the military realistically

There are enough of them. Ironically, many, if not all military plot holes could be corrected with lesser amount of writing we've done here in this thread.

there are a few but most games with a military setting get things wrong . . . . refering Marines as soldiers . . . Navy Corpsman as medics . . . . Marines calling helicopters choppers instead of helos . . . one guy totally dominating while surrounded by a bunch of inept soldiers/marines . . . . than the totally dominating guy never gets promoted for exceptional leadership or skill . . . . hell BF3 couldn't even get something as simple as the USMC uniform right

[TheRealJayDee]

Farbautisonn wrote...

Im with OP here. Months of sitting on your hands going to a trial that turns out not to be a trial but rather an advisery tribuneral on the legitimacy of Sheps claims headed by peak-level officers who are in charge of earths defense but act like idiots. Thats what we were supposed to come back.. and STAY back for? I thought I was busy saving the universe, not playing with my thumbs.

Why couldnt they have offered the Batarians full disclosure, asked to get their top agent on the Normandy as an "obersever", an olive branch? Happens all the time IRL. Why did Jack, "bat****e insane" (not really) Jack if she is a love interest not bust Shep out of the brig? (And year... he is in the brig. Says "detention" on the door... so no "house arrest" or "confined to quarters" either).

Plus if Shep has even an ounce of Renegade why would he give himself up in the first place? To placate the batarians? Shep has bigger fish to fry and he has gone against the words of the councill and the alliance before. So let the alliance denounce Shephard and then continue to capitalize on his Spectre status. And if he is a Spectre, whats the legal rights that the alliance has over him?

Months of waiting around on earth whilst things are discussed in a "committee". Im surprised they didnt make him paint fingerpaintings or write poetry to add "artistic merit" to their game...

This.

Guldhun2 wrote...

Oh wait, what's this?

UPDATED (Only if the player has not completed the Arrival DLC for Mass Effect 2)

Military Strength: -50
Admiral Hackett dispatched marines to the planet Aratoht to rescue a deep cover agent, Dr. Amanda Kenson.
The teams were killed in an explosion that wiped out both the colony
and the system's relay. The Alliance spent weeks piecing together
scattered radio transmissions, learning that the marines felt they had
no choice but to send an asteroid into the relay to prevent invasion by
the Reapers. While it bought the Alliance some time, the men and women
lost on the mission were a severe blow to the 103rd Marine Corps.



So, why was Shepard arrested if he had nothing to do with the Batarian Colony? (If you didn't buy arrival)

Dang, hadn't seen this before. Great...