211 réponses à ce sujet

[Bellendaine]

bleachorange wrote...

Anaki86 wrote...

Actually Shepard's spectre status was suspended in ME2. They had taken it after he was killed in ME2 and didn't reinstate it when he returned because he was working with Cerberus. During the scene after the council meeting in ME3 where the turian councilor asks Shepard to get the Primarch he notes that Shep's spectre status has been reinstated.

Actually that depends on who the Earth Councillor was in ME2. If Anderson was your choice, you can get reinstated then if you want. If so, in ME3, the Turian councilor 'upholds' your spectre status since you were on a probation of sorts due to your dealings with Cerberus.

Shep's Spectre status can be reinstated in ME2 regardless of whether
Udina or Anderson is councillor.  You just have to pick the right
answers and they'll reinstate it.  My Shep's always is ... if it's
reinstated in ME2, the turian councillor just says they've chosen to
"uphold" your Spectre status in ME3.

[eoinnx03]

Yeah play arrival. He turned himself in so the Aliance could tell the baterians that Shep would be punnished for his crimes, while they secretly planned for war. Even though it was all just a rouse, they were starting to listen to Shepard.

[IanPolaris]

Bellendaine wrote...

bleachorange wrote...

Anaki86 wrote...

Actually Shepard's spectre status was suspended in ME2. They had taken it after he was killed in ME2 and didn't reinstate it when he returned because he was working with Cerberus. During the scene after the council meeting in ME3 where the turian councilor asks Shepard to get the Primarch he notes that Shep's spectre status has been reinstated.

Actually that depends on who the Earth Councillor was in ME2. If Anderson was your choice, you can get reinstated then if you want. If so, in ME3, the Turian councilor 'upholds' your spectre status since you were on a probation of sorts due to your dealings with Cerberus.

Shep's Spectre status can be reinstated in ME2 regardless of whether
Udina or Anderson is councillor.  You just have to pick the right
answers and they'll reinstate it.  My Shep's always is ... if it's
reinstated in ME2, the turian councillor just says they've chosen to
"uphold" your Spectre status in ME3.

Not quite true.  If you killed the Council in ME1 and picked Udina, you can not regain Spectre status in ME2.  With any other combo you can.

-Polaris

[elfshepard]

Mesina2 wrote...

elfshepard wrote...

Actually turning yourself in is only one of the options in the Arrival DLC

But I guess Bioware doesn't care about choices

NO THERE WASN'T!


Shepard can complain, but that's it.


And why would you NOT turn yourself over?
If you don't, Batarian Hegemony and System's Alliance get in war with Reapers in galaxy.


What kind of selfish idiot Shepard has to be not to turn himself over?

If Shepard picks the Renegade option Hackett eventually says that he expects Shepard to be on earth with his dress blues on. Shepard never says he will actually comply. Also he shouldn't have any dress blues since he is not an Alliance officer anymore.

Modifié par elfshepard, 13 avril 2012 - 01:12 .

[Kitty Fae]

Wait wait.. i thought you said you were going to stop replying?

elfshepard wrote...
OK now I'm really finished replying ../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png

elfshepard wrote...

I think that was my last post I've actually got to go now.

Modifié par Kitty Fae, 13 avril 2012 - 05:36 .

[Han Shot First]

Shepard turned himself in, and he didn't have much choice.

You have to think of it in terms of story rather than gameplay. Where players are having an issue with this is in wondering why their Shepard couldn't just blast his way through anyone who demanded a trial. While Shepard might have been capable of that in gameplay, he isn't in the story. Shepard might be an N7 and a Spectre, but he is still just a man. He can't solo his way through an entire army.

That, and from a story perspective he needed to turn himself in. He needs the Alliance fleet to defeat the Reapers. He wasn't going to achieve that by going rogue and hiding out in the fringe as some kind of pirate.

Also he shouldn't have any dress blues since he is not an Alliance officer anymore.

That isn't true.

Shepard never leaves the Alliance. In fact throughout the entirety of Mass Effect 2 he is referred to as Commander Shepard, not Mister Shepard, Private Citizen.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 13 avril 2012 - 10:49 .

[Farbautisonn]

Han Shot First wrote...

Shepard turned himself in, and he didn't have much choice.

You have to think of it in terms of story rather than gameplay. Where players are having an issue with this is in wondering why their Shepard couldn't just blast his way through anyone who demanded a trial. While Shepard might have been capable of that in gameplay, he isn't in the story. Shepard might be an N7 and a Spectre, but he is still just a man. He can't solo his way through an entire army.

-I get what you are saying here. He would have to be the reincarnation of Simo Hayha and a tactical and strategic genious en par with Giap and have Joker be Erich Hartmann etc for him to fit the profile of what he does ingame. Its a fairytale.

However even fairytales have to be loyal to their own inherit logic and lore. And thats where the problems start. Because Shepards character and his dialogue is all over the place. He is a N7/SOG/Devgru infantryman and he apparenty wants to disregard strategy and tactics completely... Thats not really clever. His dialogue options over the course of Me3 doesnt precisely strike you as a guy who was chosen for a tactica unit. 

He could and likely should have turned himself in for a trial. But that trial should have been a mere formality and then he should have been put in "house arrest" / "Confined to barracks" etc and then be put in a lab where they could study his implants, or in a warcollage to educate officers on small unit tactics vs Reapers and reaper tech. But the trial never happens, and the officers in the "defense tribuneral" (Hearing) act like ****ing idiots, not like officers. There are ROTC candidates that would likely demonstrate greater command material and authority after 3 months of training. And then we havent even thought about what Jack, the woman who can break free from a Max security faciliy, would do if her love interest, someone who passed the first two walls of defense would do to get him back. There is basically nothing she would not kill to get him back to her. Just as there is nothing she would not kill to protect her students in ME3.

The story makes little sense so we are forced to "connect the dots" as best we can. However those dots dont fit at all, and in fact fit so poorly that anyone that ever read a clancy novel is yanking fist sized chunks of hair from his groin in frustration.

That, and from a story perspective he needed to turn himself in. He needs the Alliance fleet to defeat the Reapers. He wasn't going to achieve that by going rogue and hiding out in the fringe as some kind of pirate.

-It wouldnt be the first time in history that happened, and it wouldnt be the first time it happened for Shephard either.

[anmiro]

 Shepard was a spectre, but he's still an alliance officer and subject to their laws. I think the choice that is missing from the series was to leave the alliance entirely.

[Wulfram]

Han Shot First wrote...

That isn't true.

Shepard never leaves the Alliance. In fact throughout the entirety of Mass Effect 2 he is referred to as Commander Shepard, not Mister Shepard, Private Citizen.

On Tali's loyalty mission, Shepard does in fact say that "technically I'm no longer in the alliance military at all".

[Mirajin]

Prismvg wrote...

elfshepard wrote...

And Spectres all have enemies so I don't buy "keep the Batarians of his back" line

Missing the point. If the Alliance wouldn't have taken action the Batarians would've gone to war.

Pretty much this right here. The Batarians wanted blood, so the Alliance appeased them by "detaining" Shepard.

[FlashedMyDrive]

If Shepard didn't turn himself in, he'd be branded a traitor by the Alliance. They'd cut ties with him and hunt him down for his arrest. If Shepard wasn't arrested, the Batarians would have gone to war, making things a WHOLE lot worse.

There were no positives to Shepard resisting the trial, renegade or paragon.

Modifié par FlashedMyDrive, 13 avril 2012 - 04:55 .

[Zcorck]

Sure would've been nice if he could've spent all that time prepping for the Reapers.

[FlashedMyDrive]

Zcorck wrote...

Sure would've been nice if he could've spent all that time prepping for the Reapers.

Doing what exactly? Nobody would side with him. To the galaxy, reapers are a myth, Shepard works with Cerberus, and Shepard is a terrorist who destroyed an entire star system.

Can't really raise an army with that.

Modifié par FlashedMyDrive, 13 avril 2012 - 04:59 .

[Transgirlgamer]

My theory is that Shepard allowed herself to be arrested and co-operated with the alliance so that they would listen to her and co-operate when the reapers came.

[Transgirlgamer]

anmiro wrote...

 Shepard was a spectre, but he's still an alliance officer and subject to their laws. I think the choice that is missing from the series was to leave the alliance entirely.

Actually, by becoming a Spectre, Shepard was placed outside all laws.  And when she dies at the start of ME2, she became no-longer a part of the alliance military, she was reported KIA.  No-one ever reinstated her to our knowledge in ME2, therefore, they didnt really have any jurisdiction over her until she accepted reinstatement at the start of ME3.  At which point she either was already a Spectre (Shepard can be reinstated in ME2) so outside of their jurisdiction or she became one again soon after arriving at the citadel for the first time in ME3.  Placing her once again, outside their jurisdiction.

The title commander is something she has earned but it doesn't mean she is still a part of the military.  You are entitled to call yourself by the highest rank you earned untill you die.  I've never heard of anyone doing it as less than a captain, but I definately haven't heard everything.

[zambingo]

elfshepard wrote...

I don't know if this question has been asked before but it was one of the biggest plot holes that struck me.

In ME1 Hacket and Anderson make a big deal about only answering to the Council and not answering to the Alliance anymore.

Arsenic Touch wrote...

Shepard turned himself in.

It's not a plothole, you need to play arrival.

In addition to what Arsenic Touch wrote, there are some player's Shepards that DO NOT get reinstated as a Spectre in ME2. Mine among them. My Shep wasn't even given the opportunity to turn down the offer to be reaffirmed.

[Transgirlgamer]

zambingo wrote...

elfshepard wrote...

I don't know if this question has been asked before but it was one of the biggest plot holes that struck me.

In ME1 Hacket and Anderson make a big deal about only answering to the Council and not answering to the Alliance anymore.

Arsenic Touch wrote...

Shepard turned himself in.

It's not a plothole, you need to play arrival.

In addition to what Arsenic Touch wrote, there are some player's Shepards that DO NOT get reinstated as a Spectre in ME2. Mine among them. My Shep wasn't even given the opportunity to turn down the offer to be reaffirmed.

Shepard still wasn't an Alliance officer though.  Even if she wasn't a Spectre.  She was listed KIA when the Normandy was destroyed and wasn't formally reinstated until the start of ME3.

[zambingo]

Being listed as KIA and not reinstated into the Alliance until after the start of ME3 has zero bearing on whether [or not] the Alliance has the authority to arrest/detain Shep.

Modifié par zambingo, 13 avril 2012 - 05:26 .

[Rosey]

Did you folks forget that the vast majority of Humanity are pissed because their so called hero "faked their own death and joined Cerberus"?

The Alliance is within its rights to Arrest Shepard for that alone. It's effectively desertion. And then he went and ran around in a starship built off the classified plans of the original normandy.

And then blew up a mass relay. And if he didn't (you didn't play arrival) it doesn't matter, because of the above statement.

So, yea... Your shepard might not have volentarily turned himself in, but there's plenty of cause to arrest him, if for no other reason then to show publicly that faking your death and deserting your post is NOT OKAY. It doesn't matter if that's not what really happened. The public isn't going to believe Shepard really died. No one comes back from death, right?

[Zcorck]

FlashedMyDrive wrote...

Zcorck wrote...

Sure would've been nice if he could've spent all that time prepping for the Reapers.

Doing what exactly? Nobody would side with him. To the galaxy, reapers are a myth, Shepard works with Cerberus, and Shepard is a terrorist who destroyed an entire star system.

Can't really raise an army with that.

The Defense Committee seemed quick to ask for his assistance and advice regarding the Reapers, even before their sensors spotted the Reapers.
Admiral Anderson also said that Shepard's knowledge of the Reapers kept them from discharging him, so I don't see why they'd then keep him there if they didn't believe him.
He could try and ensure that there wouldn't be any possible interference with Alliance ops from Cerberus?
See if his Cipher could help him with the Prothean Archive on Mars?
Prep the system like Garrus did?
There was this guy, I believe he was a former Councilor of the entire Human race and the Admiral of the Fifth Fleet who believed him? I think those people do have a measure of influence, as it was also stated in Arrival...
There were people from the STG & Spectres who believed him?
Help Legion and his people?
Increase Wrex's influence so he could command more Krogans, or expand his influence into the Galactic Community?
Speed up & improve on plot-related things I can't talk about in this part of the forum?
Ask his mother(assuming your Shep is a Spacer) to help with the preparation like making sure that the people of Earth could evacuate as soon as possible with as many as possible among other things?

Spectres are still technically covert operatives. Face-change would be a start. While it wouldn't stop more advanced scanners, he still knows people like Bailey who were more than happy to keep him from popping up on scanners as shown in ME2 if Shepard asked for such.
Not wear that N7 armor wherever he goes, and a cloak like Kasumi's wouldn't hurt either.
Use someone like Zaeed to act as leader in situations where detection may be possible and act like his lackey instead.
The Shadow Broker for instance is one with influence and connections to grant Shepard access in normally unaccessible places through either blackmail, info-trade or because those people already work for her.
Could also use another ship than the Normandy. Covert Operatives did manage to get around without a ship like the Normandy in the past.

just to mention a few examples

[jbadm04]

it isnt that hard, is it?
Batarians are no council race and dont even have an embassy with council races, what do they care if some "operative" is a council spectre or not? Shep destroyed a Batarian colony and if SHep got good reasons or not, the Batarians dont care (or did anyone got another impression about this "race"?). In the end, the council do what they do best, they delegate the problem to its source: Alliance. And the alliances best interest is to avoid war with the Batarians at any cost, Shep being "the" muster alliance soldier (not matter if Paragon or Renegade) turns him/herself in, whats the problem?

ME3 got various problems, but this is definitely none of them.

[Mr. MannlyMan]

It makes sense. It just was never outright explained by Bioware during ME3, because they assumed that most people would draw their own conclusions about why Shep surrendered himself in accordance with their own experience. It was more efficient and effective than coming up with 10 in-game explanations that may or may not have "conflicted" with the player's own ideas about Shepard; that would have just made things worse.

Think about it:

Non-Spectre Shep -- Turned himself in to avoid persecution and having the Council send a Spectre to take him down; also, to avoid having the Alliance cut ties with him.
Reinstated-Spectre Shep -- Turned himself in to avoid having the Council revoke his Spectre status as a precaution. If Shepard is willing to cooperate fully with the government, the Council has no need to remove his Spectre privileges unless the batarians push for it, because as long as he's in voluntary custody, he's not a threat (and he's under constant surveillance), therefore the only reason to label him a "rogue" would be political in nature.

Bioware didn't have to outright explain this.

That's not to say that the same applies to the ending, though; don't assume that I mean that. Their reason for leaving out an explanation HERE was because they didn't want it to go against players' self-conceived motivations for Shepard. The endings only needed one explanation, and didn't have to canonize Shepard's motivations at all.


Though it probably would have been better if they stated, "Well, the Council was going to cut ties with you anyway, and the Alliance was about to declare you rogue, so Shepard HAD to protect his reputation in court." But, eh, what can you do?

[bluewolv1970]

Gilliy wrote...

Did you folks forget that the vast majority of Humanity are pissed because their so called hero "faked their own death and joined Cerberus"?

The Alliance is within its rights to Arrest Shepard for that alone. It's effectively desertion. And then he went and ran around in a starship built off the classified plans of the original normandy.

And then blew up a mass relay. And if he didn't (you didn't play arrival) it doesn't matter, because of the above statement.

So, yea... Your shepard might not have volentarily turned himself in, but there's plenty of cause to arrest him, if for no other reason then to show publicly that faking your death and deserting your post is NOT OKAY. It doesn't matter if that's not what really happened. The public isn't going to believe Shepard really died. No one comes back from death, right?

so being dead is considered desertion now???  Doesn't Hackett (you know, the guy in charge of the alliance fleet) send Shepard an email at the beginning of ME2 asking him to place a memorial for the first Normandy?  Did he seem concerned that Shep was working with Cerberus?  Did Hackett express concern about Shepard in the Shadow Borker files?  Did Hackett have concerns about Shepard and Cereberus when he sent Shepard on the mission to rescue Kenson and when he actually Stepped foot ON the SR2 to debrief?

And nothing Shepard did in ME2 was in Alliance space and Shepard was declared dead by the Alliance and thus not legally a part of the Alliance when with Cerberus - and as the OP pointed out he WAS a spectre under most circumstances...

Modifié par bluewolv1970, 13 avril 2012 - 06:29 .

[Mr. MannlyMan]

Zcorck wrote...

*snip*

Shepard could have done a lot of things. I don't think he wanted to complicate matters further, though. Making trouble for the Alliance, and evading the Council wouldn't have made matters better.

[chevyguy87]

zambingo wrote...

Being listed as KIA and not reinstated into the Alliance until after the start of ME3 has zero bearing on whether [or not] the Alliance has the authority to arrest/detain Shep.

It does serve as a popular tax dodge according to Bailey.