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Report EA to the BBB coz of mass effect 3....seriously???


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#51
AkiKishi

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AJRimmsey wrote...
well when the meeting on what to do for the fans was held,the vast majority of the complaints were about plot holes and closure.
everyone was saying the same thing "we dont want more endings,we want closure"

then as soon as they announced closure,the ragers started shouting "we dont want closure,we want more endings"

how the feck do they answer that ?


Vast majority seems unlikely given how many people are still complaining.... Different people wanted different things, united by the ending being a total suck fest. Some people might be happy with "closure" but for others that was never what it was about. Pulling out a complete unknown 5 minutes before the ending, making everything you did completely pointless and ripping off Deus Ex a game most gamers will have played. Why did anyone at Bioware think that was a good idea ? That is what Bioware really needs to answer.

#52
Kuari999

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AJRimmsey wrote...

thunderhawk862002 wrote...

AJRimmsey wrote...

They are listening to the fans.

they are not listening to frothing ranters treating the whole affair as a outlet for lonely rage


If they are listening they aren't hearing us.  The PR team has been horrible to say the least.  They should fix it but I'd like to know how Hudson doesn't think the endings we got were A, B, or C.  I'd like to know how Walters thinks that the Rachni decision played a huge role just in the final battle.  I have a hard time seeing how clarifications will help those kind of things if the endings stay the same.  The epilogue may change but not the endings.


well when the meeting on what to do for the fans was held,the vast majority of the complaints were about plot holes and closure.
everyone was saying the same thing "we dont want more endings,we want closure"

then as soon as they announced closure,the ragers started shouting "we dont want closure,we want more endings"

how the feck do they answer that ?


Actually, majority of what I've seen is that explaining a lot of the stuff that goes on won't fix plot holes.  The Normandy escape for example...  no matter how they try to explain that, it'll be contrived and out of character.  It was LITERALLY just there for the Adam and Eve symbolism and no other purpose.  That's something that needs to be changed, not explained, because either way, it makes Joker out to be a coward and Shepard's squad as cowards as well.  TECHNICALLY if they do the epilogue right, they are giving more endings.  The final decision I understand being A, B, or C, but the results based off that and past decisions is where its supposed to go beyond.  That's how it works *shrugs*

#53
leeboi2

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Cupcakes, billboards, reporting? Seriously? YOU GUYS ARE TAKING IT TOO ****ING FAR!

#54
Drake_Hound

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@ jimmy cause , the first time I finished the game the ending was ok .
Wasn't even the plot holes that bothered me , neither the out of control element .
Cause it was there tale , there canon law , they can do everything with that .

Sadly the moment I imported my shepard , or the character I grown attached to trough the adventure , none of the ending fits .. cause the out of control didn't fit .
For a game about choices especially Mass Effect serie , were choices matters the paragon and renegade matters , were no matter the outcome there is something you can do .
Suddenly the ending is out of control ?

There is no other way to solve it then ad additional ending , not cause I want it .
not cause the sceaming fans want it , cause it has to do the serie justice .

no matter what trust has been broken , atleast have the decency to fix your own serie we loved.

#55
AJRimmsey

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so far we have had >

charitys profiting from the rage
cupcake company making profit from the rage
bioware making profit from the rage
EA making profit from the rage
group organisers making money from the rage
splinter group making money from the rage
review sites making money from the rage
non game related sites making money from the rage

and its the ragers they are feeding off

and its the ragers who will ultimatley get nothing from it all

this is what makes me laugh so hard i almost pooped

#56
thunderhawk862002

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AJRimmsey wrote...

thunderhawk862002 wrote...

AJRimmsey wrote...

They are listening to the fans.

they are not listening to frothing ranters treating the whole affair as a outlet for lonely rage


If they are listening they aren't hearing us.  The PR team has been horrible to say the least.  They should fix it but I'd like to know how Hudson doesn't think the endings we got were A, B, or C.  I'd like to know how Walters thinks that the Rachni decision played a huge role just in the final battle.  I have a hard time seeing how clarifications will help those kind of things if the endings stay the same.  The epilogue may change but not the endings.


well when the meeting on what to do for the fans was held,the vast majority of the complaints were about plot holes and closure.
everyone was saying the same thing "we dont want more endings,we want closure"

then as soon as they announced closure,the ragers started shouting "we dont want closure,we want more endings"

how the feck do they answer that ?


A lot of people have problems with star child.  If the endings aren't changed star child will still be there.  People view star child as throwing away the previous ME lore for something totally new at the last second.  Clarification won't help with that or the A, B, C endings.

#57
Drake_Hound

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Well jimmy you can keep on laughing the sad truth is that in a world where we should have a economical decline , too many people have enough money .

Harsh reality , basically you are not laughing you are dying inside .

#58
AJRimmsey

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thunderhawk862002 wrote...

AJRimmsey wrote...

thunderhawk862002 wrote...

AJRimmsey wrote...

They are listening to the fans.

they are not listening to frothing ranters treating the whole affair as a outlet for lonely rage


If they are listening they aren't hearing us.  The PR team has been horrible to say the least.  They should fix it but I'd like to know how Hudson doesn't think the endings we got were A, B, or C.  I'd like to know how Walters thinks that the Rachni decision played a huge role just in the final battle.  I have a hard time seeing how clarifications will help those kind of things if the endings stay the same.  The epilogue may change but not the endings.


well when the meeting on what to do for the fans was held,the vast majority of the complaints were about plot holes and closure.
everyone was saying the same thing "we dont want more endings,we want closure"

then as soon as they announced closure,the ragers started shouting "we dont want closure,we want more endings"

how the feck do they answer that ?


A lot of people have problems with star child.  If the endings aren't changed star child will still be there.  People view star child as throwing away the previous ME lore for something totally new at the last second.  Clarification won't help with that or the A, B, C endings.


to be completely honest and non callous i could care less about the lore,canon or ending,i never read the codex in all 3 games,and never cared who lived or died in any,also never imported a save.

what irked me about the whole affair is the parasitic nature of those feeding off ragers.

oh,and lying,i really dont like the lying,from the publishers lies about content and dlc to the lies groups spread to justify the raging.
and of course the whole thing starting because some didnt like the ending,that always was to me lunacy.

#59
Trell073

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Man I just wish this game wasn't the one to receive all this rage spiraling up & up & up.

#60
Xerxes52

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slyguy200 wrote...

DaJe wrote...

Travie wrote...

They falsely advertised their game. If they end up with a lower BBB rating it will be justice.

Justice will be served when they get in trouble for it, or face some kind of real consequences.


This, the BBB may add a sense of legitimacy to the false advertisements claims, they ultimately have no government-given power to prosecute those claims.

Now if the FTC decided these claims had merit, then they have the power to punish EA/Bioware.

#61
AJRimmsey

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Xerxes52 wrote...

slyguy200 wrote...

DaJe wrote...

Travie wrote...

They falsely advertised their game. If they end up with a lower BBB rating it will be justice.

Justice will be served when they get in trouble for it, or face some kind of real consequences.


This, the BBB may add a sense of legitimacy to the false advertisements claims, they ultimately have no government-given power to prosecute those claims.

Now if the FTC decided these claims had merit, then they have the power to punish EA/Bioware.



psst.over here

*open coat*

Advertising Review

BBB has nothing to report concerning Bioware Corp's advertising at this time.


actual fact..only £3

#62
Xerxes52

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AJRimmsey wrote...

Xerxes52 wrote...

slyguy200 wrote...

DaJe wrote...

Travie wrote...

They falsely advertised their game. If they end up with a lower BBB rating it will be justice.

Justice will be served when they get in trouble for it, or face some kind of real consequences.


This, the BBB may add a sense of legitimacy to the false advertisements claims, they ultimately have no government-given power to prosecute those claims.

Now if the FTC decided these claims had merit, then they have the power to punish EA/Bioware.



psst.over here

*open coat*

Advertising Review

BBB has nothing to report concerning Bioware Corp's advertising at this time.


actual fact..only £3



Doesn't really matter if a member of the BBB said it or if it was an official statement, it's getting hits in the news, and people are listening to it, and it could very well draw the FTC's attention.

#63
AJRimmsey

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Xerxes52 wrote...

Doesn't really matter if a member of the BBB said it or if it was an official statement, it's getting hits in the news, and people are listening to it, and it could very well draw the FTC's attention.


completely agree,facts here rarely have anything to do with the ragers

the end result is to rage,even when public opinion is wrecked by the rage itself.

after all,the news sites only want the hits,never mind the facts,hits pays the bills,and feeding off the foolish is very profitable :P

Modifié par AJRimmsey, 12 avril 2012 - 05:35 .


#64
Dezerte

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Trell073 wrote...

Man I just wish this game wasn't the one to receive all this rage spiraling up & up & up.


Bad press is better than no press. I may not like or agree with all the methods I've seen, but the end justifies the means.

#65
Kuari999

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AJ, as I told you elsewhere, that section is reserved usually for ongoing lawsuits. The F rating is far more telling. Those are damn hard to get.  Basically the company has to IGNORE them AND the BBB needs to decide that the claims that are ignored had merit.

Modifié par Kuari999, 12 avril 2012 - 05:38 .


#66
Navasha

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All that demonstrates is peoples immaturity.

Do you honestly think people go and check the rating of the software developer to see if they should buy the game they have been wanting?

People that make claims about false advertising are the reason why everyone is forced to endure ridiculous warning labels on everything.

Modifié par Navasha, 12 avril 2012 - 05:38 .


#67
Guest_XxTaLoNxX_*

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BioWare/EA lied about what would and wouldn't be in the game to produce sales.

I fully agree with any and all reports against them until they start upholding their promises.

False Advertising is a crime. Period.

#68
Kuari999

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Navasha wrote...

People that make claims about false advertising are the reason why everyone is forced to endure ridiculous warning labels on everything.


Its also the reason for many of the good aspects of business these days.  These laws came about as a means to enforce quality standards and to quell the lying a bit.  It hasn't STOPPED it, but there's good reason for the laws existing, and frankly?  Gaming companies shouldn't be immune.  Trust me, drop advertising laws and watch how quickly all businesses screw everyone over.  If you want to call it immaturity just because it involves gaming, that's a personal problem and overall disrespectful.

Modifié par Kuari999, 12 avril 2012 - 05:42 .


#69
aries1001

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Let me ask you this:

Since when are interviews with the game's developers etc. to be taken as advertising or commercials for the game? I have never ever taken these to be commercials or adverts for the game, have they appeared on websites, in magazines or on tv-shows. They are interviews - a genre that means that a journalist interviews say Casey Hudson, Ray Myzyka or Mac Walters.

And a lot things can go wrong in an interview as seen in the unofficial fan-interview with Patrick Weekes, where the person doing the interview didn't have a notepad or tape-recorder.
Maybe the interviewer didn't understand Casey's answer well enough, manybe Casey didn't express himself clearly, but vaguely etc. etc. and so on.

Also this: Please remember that the production time needed for a magazine is at least 6-8 weeks before it is out in stores. As such, an interview appearing in a game magazine in January 2012 could have been recorded in mid november or late october 2011. And to be clear about this yet again: I don't personally think that anything said in an interview goes to what people should expect as adverts or commercials.

As for what people calling promises made to us during the game's development, I can remember when Oblivion and Fallout 3 came out. People were outraged and angry that Bethesda did not deliver what they promised to deliver. However, please understand that game development is a continuing process and a lot of things get cut during the developement process. And it seems that the DA team has a understand of this - and more than this; the DA team has also learned how to communicate this to the DA fans, forumites and this community. Now they've talk about ideas, not promises since apparently people somehow fail to understand that game development is all about ideas, getting them and making them happen, and that some of the ideas simply don't work for various reasons.

I will, however, admit that the radically different endings are, in fact, not that different. But how do we not shape the outcome and fate of entire civilizations - to cure or not ot cure - that's the question or make peace or not peace - that's also the question, isn't it?

Another thing is what expectations the PR machine form EA - and Bioware have build up - and yes, in this sense that did build an expectation that would lead to the expectations that we would fight to take back earth. The endings did not, as I see, do anything as to answer this question, or to answer the question: Are the reapers defeated? what happened? did we, the alliance, win?

#70
BellatrixLugosi

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Obviously some of the Re-takers in this thread just want to see Bioware pay for just not giving them a good ending. This is just another thing for them to tag along with and justify their lofty ideal's

#71
nycmode75

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Dakota Strider wrote...

EA acquired Bioware to make more money.  If Bioware's production was not important to EA's bottom line, why would they even purchase it in the first place?  Sure, EA makes money from different income streams.  Its called diversification, and it is smart for everyone to do, not just corporations.  But, now that one source of their income has become tarnished, I have a feeling that their other revenue streams will come under much closer scrutiny in the future. 

Change has to start somewhere.  Like the old riddle asks, "How do you eat an ElAphant?"  The answer:  "One bite at a time."

Not that I am seeking the destruction of EA or Bioware.  On the contrary, I hope this experience will make them better companies that learn to serve the needs of their customers better, and not just treat us as mindless peons whose only purpose is to buy their products.



It works both ways.  Diversification also functions under the expectation not every revenue stream (like Bioware, if people really stick to their guns and boycott their games - which I still find very suspect because who knows, what if their next game rocks out?  Watch the fans go flocking back, if the next game avoids the pitfalls of the current one) will be profitable, and that other sources of revenue will offset the feeble one until they unload it.  On a much smaller scale, it reminds me of when MTV games/Viacom unloaded Harmonix after the weight of all those musice licenses started to make the unit less economically feasible.  But I digress (though maybe EA will sell Bioware someday!  Pray for that).

There's no wrong in bringing EA or Bioware's antics to the BBB, just like there is no wrong in people voicing their opinions here or else where.  The company only has itself to blame for that.  But when companies reach the size and scope of EA, it is clear that corporations do not answer to its customers.  To them, shareholders are the top priority and as long as their balance sheets continue to grow, satisfying a bunch of ME fans won't be on the top of their to-do list.  

Yes you do eat an elephant one slice at a time.  But there are a lot of slices and while I'm sure at least someone of influence there is aware of the negative feedback on the company - I still don't have faith they will make any material changes to how they QC their games, consider favorable endings or bug check their products any better in the future.  I've really never been extremely impressed with EA on many fronts and I just don't see how this incident will change their corporate culture.  It is clear to me by now that they see customers as faceless ATM machines willing to buy whatever high profile title and whatever stupid DLC they throw at us.  I never liked how they put out those stupid online passes.  Yes all this makes sense from a business angle but it also makes customers feel like they are getting nickle and dimed.  Gone are the days when you'd buy a game and that's it.  EA has been one of the leaders of that whole "pay more" movement and given their recent track record I have an extremely hard time believing that any of the recent ME debacles will encourage them to change their ways and start caring about the consumer again.  

If anything at least Bioware is trying, even if their subsequent efforts are not exactly as good as what we all hoped for.

#72
thunderhawk862002

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AJRimmsey wrote...

thunderhawk862002 wrote...

AJRimmsey wrote...

thunderhawk862002 wrote...

AJRimmsey wrote...

They are listening to the fans.

they are not listening to frothing ranters treating the whole affair as a outlet for lonely rage


If they are listening they aren't hearing us.  The PR team has been horrible to say the least.  They should fix it but I'd like to know how Hudson doesn't think the endings we got were A, B, or C.  I'd like to know how Walters thinks that the Rachni decision played a huge role just in the final battle.  I have a hard time seeing how clarifications will help those kind of things if the endings stay the same.  The epilogue may change but not the endings.


well when the meeting on what to do for the fans was held,the vast majority of the complaints were about plot holes and closure.
everyone was saying the same thing "we dont want more endings,we want closure"

then as soon as they announced closure,the ragers started shouting "we dont want closure,we want more endings"

how the feck do they answer that ?


A lot of people have problems with star child.  If the endings aren't changed star child will still be there.  People view star child as throwing away the previous ME lore for something totally new at the last second.  Clarification won't help with that or the A, B, C endings.


to be completely honest and non callous i could care less about the lore,canon or ending,i never read the codex in all 3 games,and never cared who lived or died in any,also never imported a save.

what irked me about the whole affair is the parasitic nature of those feeding off ragers.

oh,and lying,i really dont like the lying,from the publishers lies about content and dlc to the lies groups spread to justify the raging.
and of course the whole thing starting because some didnt like the ending,that always was to me lunacy.


Well people have to start somewhere to get this nonsense stopped.  The games industry is too huge to be regulated as poorly as it is now.  Call of Duty regularly brings in close to $1 billion dollars every year.  It's high time the industry gets tougher regulation.  Do things change in development? Sure.  But then the statements during interviews should also change.  And anything said after the game has gone gold needs to absolutely be truthful.  That Rachni quote by Walters is one of the worst there is considering it was made about a week before release.

It's fine if you don't care about the lore.  Others, like me, do.   So for a story driven game to pull the star child out of the hat is absurd.    Would I be raging about the ending if the advertisements and interviews accurately reflected the end product?  Sure.  I think it was terribly done.  Would I have filed complaints with the FTC and BBB? Nope.  I never complained about the ending to them, just the advertising about the ending.  Anyone who files a complaint just about the ending is foolish considering they actually said some people would hate it.  Which is one of the truthful statments they made.

I may have not liked the ending but I wouldn't waste the BBB's or the FTC's time with it as long as it was advertised properly.

#73
AJRimmsey

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Kuari999 wrote...

AJ, as I told you elsewhere, that section is reserved usually for ongoing lawsuits. The F rating is far more telling. Those are damn hard to get.  Basically the company has to IGNORE them AND the BBB needs to decide that the claims that are ignored had merit.


ermmm..you get an F rating there if they dont have your business information or dont PAY them for a better rating.

just read the site doc.

EA got an A,simply because thier business profile is accessible.

that section also tells you they had 58 complaints in three years,and 1 is unresolved.

58 out of millions and millions of sales.


but feel free to ignore that snippet too




BellatrixLugosi wrote...

Obviously some of the Re-takers
in this thread just want to see Bioware pay for just not giving them a
good ending. This is just another thing for them to tag along with and
justify their lofty ideal's


forget retake,they are self destructing.
i checked thier forums,the organiser claimed a victory over the coming dlc,and they revolted and its all going ****** up.

damn shame :(

Modifié par AJRimmsey, 12 avril 2012 - 05:49 .


#74
Dridengx

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Chrillze wrote...

retic wrote...

 http://m.computerand..._medium=twitter

I have come to respect the opinions of many ME fans who hated the endings...but this is just too much. Does this mean we are now welcoming the age of "tour guide" gamerism, where whiners actually can force game developers everywhere to make changes on something they don't agree with? 


No one will ever be able to make EA and BioWare shutdown, but I agree this is just pathetic. this is too much for a videogame


waaaaay too much. I think there should be a disclaimer on video games for weak minded people now who get too attached

#75
SalsaDMA

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AJRimmsey wrote...

Banelash wrote...

If a president gives out false promises, high chance he won't be elected again. When a company gives out false advertising, all of a sudden its the players who are entitled and gonna create a pandemic?

Please don't be a sheep and actually know when to complain and when not to.


you`ll have to tell us what it is this weeks complaint is first.

ending ?
closure ?
plotholes ?
advertising ?
the rain ????

been so many turn arounds we have no idea what you want anymore.


AJ, you're mixing up your trolling ventures.

The BBB were involved due to false advertising, and you start talking about the ending fiasco.

They are 2 different topics. Although they are somewhat connected in that they are both in the same game, your post shows you don't really read what you respond to.