22 réponses à ce sujet

[Amycus89]

Aside from the big problems with wave combat, reused levels, no real inventory system, I feel  the biggest problem with DA2 was the story. This even though I usually prefer more "personal" stories instead of any "epic" tale. And I think the largest culprit for this was the timeskips, which made the game unnecessarily short, disconnected you from your character, and made it so we never felt very close to any companions or other characters.

This is for example how DA2 SHOULD have handled the story:
1) Let the game begin in lothering, before the battle of ostagar. Give us time to learn our family and the town that later will be destroyed, so that we feel some of the loss of our home, and actually let us get a chance to let us care about a family member we are about to loose.

2)Let us continue playing in the ship's hold to get a picture of the desperation among all the refugees. Even if its just a chance to interact and talk to the different people there, it would set the mood and make you feel much more integrated to the story.

3) When we first arrive in kirkwall, we get to choose between joining the smugglers or mercenaries to get into the city. This was a great chance to give some sense of giving a bit replay value, with 2 seperate quest chains where you meet new people and learn about the city. Instead we only got 2 different quests to choose from, which one could actually complete in the same playthrough, and then we suddenly have a timescip where all the shopkeepers that you have never seen before suddenly acts as they have known you all your life. We never really got any clear explanation (that made sense) why we had to join the darkspawn expedition no matter what.

4)After the darkspawn edition we have another timeskip where we go from gamlen's house to a new one in the richer querters. Even here there could have been some gameplay to build and decorate your new home, as well as some more interaction from your friends (and your mother) about your sibling suddenly leaving for whatever reason.

I could continue, but I think you get the idea by now... if there hadn't been these weird timescips I would have likely managed to have made a second playthrough at least, despite all the other problems.

[Melca36]

I think it was already stated the next game would not have a 3 ACT Narrative so don't worry.

[caradoc2000]

more timeskips for DA3 please

I agree!

[LolaLei]

Yeah I wasn't keen on time skips either because I wanted to know what Hawke was upto during the years that we didn't see, plus it meant Hawke kept talking to these random people I didn't know that he'd met during those times, which kinda made me feel a bit disconnected from the character.

[cJohnOne]

Yeah it should have 4 Acts?

[esper]

I liked that da2 had a clear sense of time passed. Da:o didn't have that and it always felt wrong to me. I do, however, think that three years long timeskip are too much.
What about just jumping to the next year? Or something to make the passage of time seeing reasonable.
No returning to the circle and figuring out that a year have suddenly passed.

[LolaLei]

esper wrote...

I liked that da2 had a clear sense of time passed. Da:o didn't have that and it always felt wrong to me. I do, however, think that three years long timeskip are too much.
What about just jumping to the next year? Or something to make the passage of time seeing reasonable.
No returning to the circle and figuring out that a year have suddenly passed.

Like if you got arrested for a crime and thrown in jail for a year, time skips to when you're released or escape and you hear guards talking or something about how a year had passed or whatever, something to make it clear that it's a time skip without it seeming stupid.

[brushyourteeth]

I think the weirdest thing about timeskips was how it affected your relationships.

... Seriously, Merrill? you've been working on this mirror for how many years?

... Seriously, Marethari, you guys haven't gotten out of Sundermount after how many years?

... Seriously, Cullen, you haven't caught any of my apostate friends after how many years?

... Seriously, love interest? We're only just now having this talk after how many years?

It could go on...

I guess I understand why they didn't show us thugging around Kirkwall for three years, but relationships with people are much more complicated than what the 3 Act situation gave us.

[esper]

LolaLei wrote...

esper wrote...

I liked that da2 had a clear sense of time passed. Da:o didn't have that and it always felt wrong to me. I do, however, think that three years long timeskip are too much.
What about just jumping to the next year? Or something to make the passage of time seeing reasonable.
No returning to the circle and figuring out that a year have suddenly passed.

Like if you got arrested for a crime and thrown in jail for a year, time skips to when you're released or escape and you hear guards talking or something about how a year had passed or whatever, something to make it clear that it's a time skip without it seeming stupid.

Yeah, something like that precisely. Just so the passage of time is made clear and reasonable. 

Da:o apperently took two years, but I can never get it to fit with traveling around the map (nor do we get any passing seasons to give us that sense) and I do think that passage of times is important.

[LolaLei]

esper wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

esper wrote...

I liked that da2 had a clear sense of time passed. Da:o didn't have that and it always felt wrong to me. I do, however, think that three years long timeskip are too much.
What about just jumping to the next year? Or something to make the passage of time seeing reasonable.
No returning to the circle and figuring out that a year have suddenly passed.

Like if you got arrested for a crime and thrown in jail for a year, time skips to when you're released or escape and you hear guards talking or something about how a year had passed or whatever, something to make it clear that it's a time skip without it seeming stupid.

Yeah, something like that precisely. Just so the passage of time is made clear and reasonable. 

Da:o apperently took two years, but I can never get it to fit with traveling around the map (nor do we get any passing seasons to give us that sense) and I do think that passage of times is important.

I really wish they'd add dynamic weather to Dragon Age, that would help too.

[Amycus89]

esper wrote...

I liked that da2 had a clear sense of time passed. Da:o didn't have that and it always felt wrong to me. I do, however, think that three years long timeskip are too much.
What about just jumping to the next year? Or something to make the passage of time seeing reasonable.
No returning to the circle and figuring out that a year have suddenly passed.

In that case it would be better to show the passage of time actually making an impact on your surroundings, than just saying "a year has now passed. Believe it." I've heard ME3 did this well in the citadel. Not to mention that removing the timescips would have made the transition between the "chapters" much better. The story always felt extremely disconnected once you went from the qunari problem to the "mage vs templar" question.

[M-Taylor]

brushyourteeth wrote...

I think the weirdest thing about timeskips was how it affected your relationships.

... Seriously, Merrill? you've been working on this mirror for how many years?

... Seriously, Marethari, you guys haven't gotten out of Sundermount after how many years?

... Seriously, Cullen, you haven't caught any of my apostate friends after how many years?

... Seriously, love interest? We're only just now having this talk after how many years?

It could go on...

I guess I understand why they didn't show us thugging around Kirkwall for three years, but relationships with people are much more complicated than what the 3 Act situation gave us.

Yeah, the biggest culprits for that were Isabela/Fenris if you ask me. Isabela apparantly takes off straight after Act 2 finishes and only reappears before Act 3 begins, and Hawke is apparantly fine with that? And Hawke/Fenris were in an awkward 'are we together or aren't we' place for 3 years? Hawke never thought to address that problem? >.>..

[PinkShoes]

M-Taylor wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

I think the weirdest thing about timeskips was how it affected your relationships.

... Seriously, Merrill? you've been working on this mirror for how many years?

... Seriously, Marethari, you guys haven't gotten out of Sundermount after how many years?

... Seriously, Cullen, you haven't caught any of my apostate friends after how many years?

... Seriously, love interest? We're only just now having this talk after how many years?

It could go on...

I guess I understand why they didn't show us thugging around Kirkwall for three years, but relationships with people are much more complicated than what the 3 Act situation gave us.

Yeah, the biggest culprits for that were Isabela/Fenris if you ask me. Isabela apparantly takes off straight after Act 2 finishes and only reappears before Act 3 begins, and Hawke is apparantly fine with that? And Hawke/Fenris were in an awkward 'are we together or aren't we' place for 3 years? Hawke never thought to address that problem? >.>..

I think Fenris/Hawke was the worse one. Because you couldnt RP that romance at all. Like if it was Origins style Fenris would of been like "I just cant talk about this right now!" and after awhile when you get more of his friendship/rivalry he would of been like "okay lets chat bout this" i liked that.

I prefer DAO's style of talking but i do still feel like it can be refined.

[Wulfram]

brushyourteeth wrote...

I think the weirdest thing about timeskips was how it affected your relationships.

... Seriously, Merrill? you've been working on this mirror for how many years?

... Seriously, Marethari, you guys haven't gotten out of Sundermount after how many years?

Those both make sense in the story.  Merrill is supposed to be dangerously obsessed, and Marethari has kept the clan there for her - while both the rest of the clan and Merrill herself point out they should have gone.

edit:  A lot of the other companions storylines and romances struggle the 3 year gap, but I think Merrill's actually works quite well.

Modifié par Wulfram, 14 avril 2012 - 09:27 .

[Ulicus]

There was nothing wrong with the time skips in principle. The execution left a bit to be desired, sure, but I'd rather see this improved upon than the concept abandoned, entirely. And were people seriously annoyed by the odd reference to noodle incidents in Hawke's past? I loved them.

[CrimsonZephyr]

Ulicus wrote...
And were people seriously annoyed by the odd reference to noodle incidents in Hawke's past? I loved them.

They lacked context. You never saw any of them. They were usually just springboards for Varric or Isabela to say something witty. It's a "show, don't tell" kind of thing.

[Ulicus]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Ulicus wrote...
And were people seriously annoyed by the odd reference to noodle incidents in Hawke's past? I loved them.

They lacked context. You never saw any of them.

... but that's what a noodle incident is.

I didn't mind people who Hawke knew and the player didn't showing up, either. I just wish more had been made of them.

Modifié par Ulicus, 15 avril 2012 - 02:58 .

[G00N3R7883]

I strongly disliked the timeskips as well. Just as the OP says, I felt like it disconnected me from my character at the start of each chapter. There was a huge difference between Hawke's knowledge of recent events and Kirkwall citizens, and my own knowledge of these things. I then had to spend about an hour just "catching up".

I guess some small timeskips are okay - Witcher 2 and Deus Ex HR both have a timeskip of 3-4 days, but the only thing that happens during those days is that Geralt / Jensen travel from one town/city to another. Skipping months or years is too much.

[Abispa]

I don't mind the concept of "time-skips," so long as they are handled well. DA2 did NOT handle the concept well the passage of time was uneven to nonexistent in it's importance to the story, the relationships, or the appearance of Kirkwall. Fable II and III, while not perfect, did a MUCH better job conveying the passage of time and showing the impact of the player's action in the game world.

[nightscrawl]

M-Taylor wrote...

And Hawke/Fenris were in an awkward 'are we together or aren't we' place for 3 years? Hawke never thought to address that problem? >.>.. 

Well there are two things that partly address this: a party banter in Legacy (which I have yet to see... Grrr...), and a line in Fenris's final Questioning Beliefs when he brings up the issue and Hawke specifically says "You didn't want to talk about it," suggesting that Hawke might have attempted at one time.

That's pretty much it, unfortunately.


--- some SPOILERS for Fenris relationship... ---





Yeah... I've role-played it various ways in my head to make it fit with how they have things in the game, but it still feels awkward. The problem there is lack of communication. Fenris has these issues. I get it. But this lack of communication for three years is not acceptable. In real life I would have given him a week/two weeks max to think about things. Of course, part of the problem with Fenris is that in Act 2 (when all of this happens), he has just had the encounter with Hadriana throwing back in his face that he is still a slave and someone out there considers him property. That in turn brings up all of these emotions. Fenris can NOT move on until he is finally free, as is shown in Act 3.

While I don't like it, I think that forcing him to make some kind of decision in Act 2 would be bad, and honestly I don't think would result in the decision that the player would want from him. Because he doesn't communicate more until he has had significant character growth, he's unpredictable in this regard.

Regarding the time jumps overall, I'm on the fence. On one hand, I liked that the extended time added to your residence in Kirkwall, as well as to your relationships in the game. As much as I like Alistair (and romance him in all my DAO plays), two people coming together in a crisis is nothing new. The year of constant danger during the Blight, vulnerabilities of grief, and similarities of cause/goals are a perfect storm for having people with even a semi-attraction grow even closer. By comparison, you know your DA2 LI for almost seven years: through emotional crises, substantial increase of your fortune/status, various dangers, and yes the dullness of day-to-day living. There is a much greater opportunity to get to know someone in DA2 than there was in DAO because of the extended time period.

On the other hand, the way it was implemented vis-a-vie the relationships was not that great because it didn't really show that you had any dealing whatsoever with your LI during those three-year gaps. This is what I mainly found frustrating about the time jumps. It was as if Hawke was placed in cryogenic freeze for three years and awakens to find some things have changed around her, which she had nothing to do with.

So I suppose that I like them in concept for the story opportunities they can provide, but only if they are done in a way where continuity isn't lost for the player.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 16 avril 2012 - 02:26 .

[Thori]

I agree. No timeskips!

[Dessalines]

Yeah, I enjoy time skips in a game. I just want them handle better with the environment handle better. I also thought that they should have at least one or two missions showing hawke working in Kirkwall for a year.
I feel more disconnected from games where time does not play any factor like Skyrim. I became the leader of every major faction and save the world in only two game life weeks.
I think the time skips need to be implemented better, especially in relationships. I never really liked the Grey Warden in Dragon Age: Origins, because I am like I just met Duncan Why do i care if he dies or not?