334 réponses à ce sujet

[Dragoonlordz]

DreamTension wrote...

-snip-

Second part (I chose to buy this game): Absolutely.  I did it under false advertisements and statements (see above), but yeah nobody forced me to, but in many ways I was lied to.  I don't see how that's 'entitled' to want what I was told and what I was told to expect.

Sell it buy something else might enjoy more.

Return it when found out? Nope you chose to keep, all your choices.

They did not force you to do anything.

[TransientNomad]

ThePanzer99 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

One reason is that, generally, we have our own ideas about how to design games and stories and don't design them by committee in collaboration with the players. That's not really how the developer-player relationship works.

And that's the heart of the problem with ME3. A chunk of the customers/fan base thoroughly rejected biowares vision for the end of the story. It puts the company at a crossroads. Double down on the waterslide approach to storytelling, or let the mob help shape the story.

I'd like to see the latter versus the former in the future.

Of course there is also the issue of whether or not they should honor their words and respect the community/consumer (As in, don't lie to) as a whole and deliver the promised 16 endings, no A, B, or C choice, no space magic, and have our actions mean something in the conclusion.  

The developer/player relationship SHOULD work like this.  Developer promises things about product, player buys product based on those promises, player see's developer was true to their word.  Didn't happen here.

[Transgirlgamer]

People seem to misunderstand what asking for feedback means in terms of products like games, books and films. It doesn't mean 'Tell us what you didn't like and we'll go back and completely ret-con it for you then re-release it at our own expense.' It means 'Tell us what you didn't like and why so that in future products, we can do a better job.'

Personally, I didn't hate the endings, I didn't love them. I also don't think they fit very well in the series. I will not suggest that Bioware go back and change a single second of the game though. It is their vision, not mine.

I will try to suggest ways that they can improve in the future because I enjoy playing their games. It's pretty telling that this is the only forums for a developer that I have even visited.

I will not threaten to not buy any more of their games until I get what I want regarding a property that has already been released. I will not call the developers names and say how they're not listening to feedback because they're not giving people what they want regarding a property that has already been released.

I will, most likely, be pre-ordering Dragon Age 3 when it is announced, assuming I can afford it at the time. If they release a Mass Effect 4, I will likely buy that as well as I want to know where they go from the end of Mass Effect 3. I will also, most likely buy Mass Effect 3 DLC to see what they come up with to augment the game (and that's what the purpose of DLC really is). Although honestly, I'll probably not buy just costume packs as I don't see the point in these personally. They don't change the game experience for me.

[Calbeb]

Transgirlgamer wrote...

People seem to misunderstand what asking for feedback means in terms of products like games, books and films. It doesn't mean 'Tell us what you didn't like and we'll go back and completely ret-con it for you then re-release it at our own expense.' It means 'Tell us what you didn't like and why so that in future products, we can do a better job.'

Personally, I didn't hate the endings, I didn't love them. I also don't think they fit very well in the series. I will not suggest that Bioware go back and change a single second of the game though. It is their vision, not mine.

I will try to suggest ways that they can improve in the future because I enjoy playing their games. It's pretty telling that this is the only forums for a developer that I have even visited.

I will not threaten to not buy any more of their games until I get what I want regarding a property that has already been released. I will not call the developers names and say how they're not listening to feedback because they're not giving people what they want regarding a property that has already been released.

I will, most likely, be pre-ordering Dragon Age 3 when it is announced, assuming I can afford it at the time. If they release a Mass Effect 4, I will likely buy that as well as I want to know where they go from the end of Mass Effect 3. I will also, most likely buy Mass Effect 3 DLC to see what they come up with to augment the game (and that's what the purpose of DLC really is). Although honestly, I'll probably not buy just costume packs as I don't see the point in these personally. They don't change the game experience for me.

^^ This is absolutely everything I want to say.

[YonatanJ]

Zhuinden wrote...

YonatanJ wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

One reason is that, generally, we have our own ideas about how to design games and stories and don't design them by committee in collaboration with the players. That's not really how the developer-player relationship works.

I don't remember where exactly, but awhile ago, an offical bioware employee said that the story of Mass Effect was built along with the fans, therefore I'd say that some form of collaboration was created. I don't see why consulting with your active fanbase, be it through surveys or whatever form of communication is wrong and not a legit way to create games.
After we all, we are returning consumers and we pay for the products we get. We should have a say to some degree. (In my opinion, that is).

By the way, you keep forgetting that the entire concept of Mass Effect is that the player, his choices, his morals and what not are important to the story and eventually what forwards it. This is a point where playerchoice has been completely broken (AKA the concept of the game was broken). Therefore, the LEAST you can do is listening to what the fans have to say and respond to their questions, unlike now. Communication is key.

This is what you are looking for, apparently it was just as valid as stating the game doesn't have an A,B,C ending..
(Okay, that's not nice of me. There were various instances where fan feedback was taken in, for example the "Prothy the Prothean" or "Blasto the Hanar Spectre" cameos. But still, with the ending fiasco, it's sort of hard to take it seriously.)

Well, at least Stanley gave a reasonable response. I already feel we are collectively less insignificant.

There you have it. You contradicted Casey's statement with yours.

[Keldaurz]

Stanley Woo wrote...

One reason is that, generally, we have our own ideas about how to design games and stories and don't design them by committee in collaboration with the players. That's not really how the developer-player relationship works.

Tell that to the quest surveys on SWTOR so they get feedback from the playerbase. That kind of poll would actually helped while crafting the extended cut.

Modifié par Keldaurz, 12 avril 2012 - 06:22 .

[Dragoonlordz]

TransientNomad wrote...

ThePanzer99 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

One reason is that, generally, we have our own ideas about how to design games and stories and don't design them by committee in collaboration with the players. That's not really how the developer-player relationship works.

And that's the heart of the problem with ME3. A chunk of the customers/fan base thoroughly rejected biowares vision for the end of the story. It puts the company at a crossroads. Double down on the waterslide approach to storytelling, or let the mob help shape the story.

I'd like to see the latter versus the former in the future.

Of course there is also the issue of whether or not they should honor their words and respect the community/consumer (As in, don't lie to) as a whole and deliver the promised 16 endings, no A, B, or C choice, no space magic, and have our actions mean something in the conclusion.  

The developer/player relationship SHOULD work like this.  Developer promises things about product, player buys product based on those promises, player see's developer was true to their word.  Didn't happen here.

All quotes prior to release are subject to change. Thats why it's called development not developed.

Maybe you should listen more to what they say after release instead of prior. Lesson to be learned about blind faith and things they 'want to do' prior to release compared to 'what they have done' after released. If you chose to pre-order based on what they wanted to do instead of what have done then thats your choice. In future buy after released instead when know what have created not just what wanted to create.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 12 avril 2012 - 06:24 .

[FridgeRaider88]

Stanley Woo wrote...

One reason is that, generally, we have our own ideas about how to design games and stories and don't design them by committee in collaboration with the players. That's not really how the developer-player relationship works.

And yet many of the things that fans have clamoured for (Tali/Garrus romance, removal of the mako, etc) are the most well received, because those are the things that we want.

Clearly your development team don't get it right on their own all the time, as if they did there wouldn't be controversy regarding the ending.

I don't think, if asked beforehand, many would have said "You know what? What I think this game really needs is a new, arguably flawed character to be introduced in the last 10 minutes of the game that blows holes in the plot of the series".

Modifié par FridgeRaider88, 12 avril 2012 - 06:28 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Transgirlgamer wrote...

People seem to misunderstand what asking for feedback means in terms of products like games, books and films. It doesn't mean 'Tell us what you didn't like and we'll go back and completely ret-con it for you then re-release it at our own expense.' It means 'Tell us what you didn't like and why so that in future products, we can do a better job.'

Personally, I didn't hate the endings, I didn't love them. I also don't think they fit very well in the series. I will not suggest that Bioware go back and change a single second of the game though. It is their vision, not mine.

I will try to suggest ways that they can improve in the future because I enjoy playing their games. It's pretty telling that this is the only forums for a developer that I have even visited.

I will not threaten to not buy any more of their games until I get what I want regarding a property that has already been released. I will not call the developers names and say how they're not listening to feedback because they're not giving people what they want regarding a property that has already been released.

I will, most likely, be pre-ordering Dragon Age 3 when it is announced, assuming I can afford it at the time. If they release a Mass Effect 4, I will likely buy that as well as I want to know where they go from the end of Mass Effect 3. I will also, most likely buy Mass Effect 3 DLC to see what they come up with to augment the game (and that's what the purpose of DLC really is). Although honestly, I'll probably not buy just costume packs as I don't see the point in these personally. They don't change the game experience for me.

Agreed.

[tetsutsuru]

Transgirlgamer wrote...

They do design games for themselves and make games for themselves and then try to sell them.  It's the same with any creative endeavour as any good writer will tell you.

And before anyone tries to tell me that games are different to books or films or TV show, I'll tell you why they're not.  Because they have a story to them which neccesarily gives you limits to how your character can progress.  Sure, they're looser than a book or a film or a TV show, but it's still there.  For example, Shepard can't decide to not bother saving the galaxy and live out whatever time she has left on a remote planet where no-one will ever find her.   Certain choices are denied to you because that's how the plot is advanced.

If they designed and made games for all of us, they would be so bad and so unplayable that no-one would buy it or enjoy it.  So they stick to what they enjoy.

As to your last couple of words, you most likely didn't need to buy it.  You chose to buy it.  No-one forced you to get this game, no-one forced you to play it.  You decided to do both of these things.  And you didn't like something about it.  Big deal.  

I really don't like being confrontational, I'm generally a voice for balance and compromise.  But, grow up and learn how the world really works.  Not everyone thinks like you do, not everyone enjoys what you do.  Most people learn that pretty early in their childhood.  You really do come off as a whiny self-important child in the post I quoted.  I imagine that wasn't your intention but that's the impression I got.

Perhaps if you offered constructive criticism rather than just ranting you would have come off differently.  Maybe if you had even offered anything to back up your opinions.

I'm sorry if this has offended you, or anyone else in any way.  I don't come to these forums to argue with people or to denigrate them at all, I come here to have discussions with fellow fans, and occasionally the developers, about things I enjoy.

I would finish by saying 'if you don't have anything good to say don't say anything at all.'  But I don't believe that.  I believe that there's nothing wrong with saying something bad, if it's said in a way to help people learn and better themselves.  That was my intention with this entire post.

P.S.  To anyone not affected by the issues here, I'm sorry for the length of this post and the slight rantyness to it.  I just felt it had to be said.

Quoted for truth.  Thank you.

All of this, is really very simple.

1.  "Listening" to feedback and, in a broader pespective, "understanding", does not, in any way, instantly denote "compliance".
2.  You bought the game.  If you didn't like it, then don't spend on any further content.
3.  If you want to give feedback and they're receptive to it, go for it.  There's giving feedback, and there's bratty, immature whining like someone with an over-inflated sense of entitlement.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Someone said earlier:

If you need to explain your ending, it failed.

This is very true. It's like having to explain a punchline to a joke. The joke is no longer a joke. It has lost impact.

But in all fairness the ending is pretty straight forward up to a point. It really doesn't need explaining up to a point. The problem is the "use your imagination to fill in the blanks." I think Casey Hudson said that about using imagination. That part doesn't work with tying up the loose ends of a story.

You sold about 3 million copies of the game. You have about 3 million different interpretations of the endings out there now, and Bioware says they want to continue the Mass Effect universe. 3 million different interpretations of the endings create a significant problem with moving forward especially with the "there is no canon" mantra we've heard all along. A ton of this crap is going to have to be retconned anyway. We've seen a ton of threads arguing about plot devices, deus ex machinii, whateverelsewhoneedsdetails. This is where the problem is: what the f*** just happened?

If any survey were to be done it would have to be unbiased. It would have to be done by a third party. Bioware would have to tell a survey group what they wanted to know, and the survey group would have to write the questions. Bioware could not do the survey themselves, nor could they have any input on how the questions were asked, nor could EA have any input on this. Surveys cost money. It is very easy to skew questions to get people to answer them the way a particular group wants the questions answered. Neutrality is key. This is why there are professionals who do these things. No leading questions allowed.

The sample size would need to be 1400 for all who bought the game and would be accurate within =/- 5% IF the questions were asked with neutrality and were not leading.

Another problem here is we're getting into asking objective questions about what some people would consider subjective material -- hence why there are so many interpretations of the ending and the conclusions of because there is a lot of necessary information that was missing to draw any logical conclusion.

[xJohnsen]

Dragoonlordz wrote...


All quotes prior to release are subject to change. Thats why it's called development not developed.

Maybe you should listen more to what they say after release instead of prior. Lesson to be learned about blind faith and things they 'want to do' prior to release compared to 'what they have done' after released. If you chose to pre-order based on what they wanted to do instead of what have done then thats your choice. In future buy after released instead when know what have created not just what wanted to create.

Sorry but this makes no sense to me. You are saying we should listen to what they say after release? Sorry, but I buy my games based on what I was told before the game was release. 

I pre ordered based on "what they wanted to do". They told me that this and that was going to happen. And again, I can't decide whether or not to pre order a game with what they will say after release.

Modifié par xJohnsen, 12 avril 2012 - 06:29 .

[MorSterling]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

MorSterling wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

MorSterling wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Hepatitis P wrote...

Bioware you design Games for US and without US you wouldnt even have a Job Stanley
If you want to make a Game for yourself do it and we dont need to buy it.

But teasing us with wrong Statements about the game and its mechanic and the 16 Endings which are in fact just 3 Colored Choices and 1 Ending with slightly different Cutscenes is bull****

Grow up. They will continue to be around even if you leave. Many people still want their products even after your threats and hissy fits end. You did not pay for the creation of ME, EA did with pool of resources from many different titles and products and many people will buy their products long after your gone.

What you are missing is that they have lost credibility in lots of peoples thinking which WILL lower what they can sell.

What´s more is their PR-disaster is continuing to alienate people which will further reduce sales.

Then you have posts like yours on BSN which are selfrighteous without an ounce of understanding which further peoples disgust about how the company are handling this, way to go.

More and more people are turning their backs on you and more are getting hostile because it has gone on long enough. The threats, the hyperbole, the vitriol has run it's course and many are sick of it now. It is not just your community it is outs too and your dragging it through the mud because of your hurt feelings even after Bioware have stated exactly what they plan to do and made their solution free your still whining and many still using threats, hyperbole and vitriol in the threads and posts they create.

Actually the people doing that mostly are like you and i note that you don´t answer what wrote about at all and therefore agree that you reduce sales for BW.

I answered it when replied to someone else. One right above your reply in fact.

Eh? No you didn´t.

[Transgirlgamer]

Keldaurz wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

One reason is that, generally, we have our own ideas about how to design games and stories and don't design them by committee in collaboration with the players. That's not really how the developer-player relationship works.

Tell that to the quest surveys on SWTOR.

AN MMO game is a different thing to a stand alone game.  An MMO game is a continuous experience that relies on the players to make up a lot of it's content.  By that, I don't mean it's story or quests, I mean the community of the game which people interact with every time they log onto the servers.  I have stopped playing MMO games as I haven't enjoyed the community the players and developers working together had built.  The first MMO I played was Star Wars Galaxies and I got into it because I really enjoyed the community, despite the repetatie grinding.  Until SOE stopped listening to the playerbase they already had and turned it into a WoW clone with a Star Wars skin.  The community died, my interest was lost and now, the game itself has closed down.

Mass Effect 3 however, is a single story.  It is much more like a book or a film whilst an MMO is more like a traitional, pen and paper or tabletop RPG.  You don't go to your favourite author or director and say 'Change this about this book/film you released' and expect them to actually do it.  It just won't happen.  Mass Effect: Deception was a special case that I don't know the details about so I can't comment on why it was a special case.

[TransientNomad]

Transgirlgamer wrote...

People seem to misunderstand what asking for feedback means in terms of products like games, books and films. It doesn't mean 'Tell us what you didn't like and we'll go back and completely ret-con it for you then re-release it at our own expense.' It means 'Tell us what you didn't like and why so that in future products, we can do a better job.'

Personally, I didn't hate the endings, I didn't love them. I also don't think they fit very well in the series. I will not suggest that Bioware go back and change a single second of the game though. It is their vision, not mine.

I will try to suggest ways that they can improve in the future because I enjoy playing their games. It's pretty telling that this is the only forums for a developer that I have even visited.

I will not threaten to not buy any more of their games until I get what I want regarding a property that has already been released. I will not call the developers names and say how they're not listening to feedback because they're not giving people what they want regarding a property that has already been released.

I will, most likely, be pre-ordering Dragon Age 3 when it is announced, assuming I can afford it at the time. If they release a Mass Effect 4, I will likely buy that as well as I want to know where they go from the end of Mass Effect 3. I will also, most likely buy Mass Effect 3 DLC to see what they come up with to augment the game (and that's what the purpose of DLC really is). Although honestly, I'll probably not buy just costume packs as I don't see the point in these personally. They don't change the game experience for me.

I totally respect your opinion (hell I enjoyed 90% of the game), but I don't think responsible consumers should let Bioware/EA off the hook that easily, in regards to promising one thing, and delivering something else.  I'm not against Bioware, but I think they should be held to their word.  Next time it may not just be a horrid ending, full of plot holes, and outright lies about the endgame content, but it may be a situation more akin to Asura's Wrath.  Buy this "complete" game, but you get through it and the end is missing and to be sold at a later date.  Or other simple lies like a dev saying "Its 50 hours long!!" and its really only 10 hours, or whatnot.  


That said, I'll wait and see what this so called Extended Cut will have in it.  If it doesn't provide the gauss this festering ending needs, then Bioware has lost my buisness.

[TransientNomad]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

TransientNomad wrote...

ThePanzer99 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

One reason is that, generally, we have our own ideas about how to design games and stories and don't design them by committee in collaboration with the players. That's not really how the developer-player relationship works.

And that's the heart of the problem with ME3. A chunk of the customers/fan base thoroughly rejected biowares vision for the end of the story. It puts the company at a crossroads. Double down on the waterslide approach to storytelling, or let the mob help shape the story.

I'd like to see the latter versus the former in the future.

Of course there is also the issue of whether or not they should honor their words and respect the community/consumer (As in, don't lie to) as a whole and deliver the promised 16 endings, no A, B, or C choice, no space magic, and have our actions mean something in the conclusion.  

The developer/player relationship SHOULD work like this.  Developer promises things about product, player buys product based on those promises, player see's developer was true to their word.  Didn't happen here.

All quotes prior to release are subject to change. Thats why it's called development not developed.

Maybe you should listen more to what they say after release instead of prior. Lesson to be learned about blind faith and things they 'want to do' prior to release compared to 'what they have done' after released. If you chose to pre-order based on what they wanted to do instead of what have done then thats your choice. In future buy after released instead when know what have created not just what wanted to create.

 

Most of those are from when the game had already gone gold.  Blatant lie is blatant lie.  Sorry.

[Alamar2078]

I imagine if there was a survey they would be expected to publish results ... results that they may or may not like. Even if the survey went BW's way I wouldn't really "believe" it personally

[Keldaurz]

Transgirlgamer wrote...

People seem to misunderstand what asking for feedback means in terms of products like games, books and films. It doesn't mean 'Tell us what you didn't like and we'll go back and completely ret-con it for you then re-release it at our own expense.' It means 'Tell us what you didn't like and why so that in future products, we can do a better job.'

Personally, I didn't hate the endings, I didn't love them. I also don't think they fit very well in the series. I will not suggest that Bioware go back and change a single second of the game though. It is their vision, not mine.

I will try to suggest ways that they can improve in the future because I enjoy playing their games. It's pretty telling that this is the only forums for a developer that I have even visited.

I will not threaten to not buy any more of their games until I get what I want regarding a property that has already been released. I will not call the developers names and say how they're not listening to feedback because they're not giving people what they want regarding a property that has already been released.

I will, most likely, be pre-ordering Dragon Age 3 when it is announced, assuming I can afford it at the time. If they release a Mass Effect 4, I will likely buy that as well as I want to know where they go from the end of Mass Effect 3. I will also, most likely buy Mass Effect 3 DLC to see what they come up with to augment the game (and that's what the purpose of DLC really is). Although honestly, I'll probably not buy just costume packs as I don't see the point in these personally. They don't change the game experience for me.

Even if you didn't care about the endings, even if we agreed they "suit" the game's theme (which we won't do), they were poorly executed with tons of glaring holes up to speculation to try to tie them, and there was only one theory which only could really explain the ending as it is now, and of course it meant the ending never happened. So yeah, a poll asking for feedback asking about what went wrong and how players didn't really see the vision they had isn't exactly useless, as it provides a lot of info to see how their playerbase think. 

[YonatanJ]

Dragoonlordz wrote...


All quotes prior to release are subject to change. Thats why it's called development not developed.

Maybe you should listen more to what they say after release instead of prior. Lesson to be learned about blind faith and things they 'want to do' prior to release compared to 'what they have done' after released. If you chose to pre-order based on what they wanted to do instead of what have done then thats your choice. In future buy after released instead when know what have created not just what wanted to create.

So you're saying its fine claming your product is X,Y,Z and on release date it will be A,B,C, just because its "developement"? There's a different between slight changes and fixes and major ones like the change of the ending.  Besides, the famous quote, "It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C, " was really a few weeks away from the release of the game, meaning that the game has already gone gold.

[Keldaurz]

Transgirlgamer wrote...

Keldaurz wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

One reason is that, generally, we have our own ideas about how to design games and stories and don't design them by committee in collaboration with the players. That's not really how the developer-player relationship works.

Tell that to the quest surveys on SWTOR.

AN MMO game is a different thing to a stand alone game.  An MMO game is a continuous experience that relies on the players to make up a lot of it's content.  By that, I don't mean it's story or quests, I mean the community of the game which people interact with every time they log onto the servers.  I have stopped playing MMO games as I haven't enjoyed the community the players and developers working together had built.  The first MMO I played was Star Wars Galaxies and I got into it because I really enjoyed the community, despite the repetatie grinding.  Until SOE stopped listening to the playerbase they already had and turned it into a WoW clone with a Star Wars skin.  The community died, my interest was lost and now, the game itself has closed down.

Mass Effect 3 however, is a single story.  It is much more like a book or a film whilst an MMO is more like a traitional, pen and paper or tabletop RPG.  You don't go to your favourite author or director and say 'Change this about this book/film you released' and expect them to actually do it.  It just won't happen.  Mass Effect: Deception was a special case that I don't know the details about so I can't comment on why it was a special case.

Did you know about what the surveys were ? One of the questions was always about the story. Something which has nothing to do with what you are trying to talk about. Please.

[Dragoonlordz]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

You should read my signature OP. You would know why.

Gotta say, love your signature and totally agree with it.

[Ownedbacon]

Transgirlgamer wrote...

Keldaurz wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

One reason is that, generally, we have our own ideas about how to design games and stories and don't design them by committee in collaboration with the players. That's not really how the developer-player relationship works.

Tell that to the quest surveys on SWTOR.

AN MMO game is a different thing to a stand alone game.  An MMO game is a continuous experience that relies on the players to make up a lot of it's content.  By that, I don't mean it's story or quests, I mean the community of the game which people interact with every time they log onto the servers.  I have stopped playing MMO games as I haven't enjoyed the community the players and developers working together had built.  The first MMO I played was Star Wars Galaxies and I got into it because I really enjoyed the community, despite the repetatie grinding.  Until SOE stopped listening to the playerbase they already had and turned it into a WoW clone with a Star Wars skin.  The community died, my interest was lost and now, the game itself has closed down.

Mass Effect 3 however, is a single story.  It is much more like a book or a film whilst an MMO is more like a traitional, pen and paper or tabletop RPG.  You don't go to your favourite author or director and say 'Change this about this book/film you released' and expect them to actually do it.  It just won't happen.  Mass Effect: Deception was a special case that I don't know the details about so I can't comment on why it was a special case.

Regarding Mass Effect: Deception
http://kotaku.com/58...a-ton-of-errors
https://docs.google....?pli=1&sle=true

[Transgirlgamer]

TransientNomad wrote...

Transgirlgamer wrote...

People seem to misunderstand what asking for feedback means in terms of products like games, books and films. It doesn't mean 'Tell us what you didn't like and we'll go back and completely ret-con it for you then re-release it at our own expense.' It means 'Tell us what you didn't like and why so that in future products, we can do a better job.'

Personally, I didn't hate the endings, I didn't love them. I also don't think they fit very well in the series. I will not suggest that Bioware go back and change a single second of the game though. It is their vision, not mine.

I will try to suggest ways that they can improve in the future because I enjoy playing their games. It's pretty telling that this is the only forums for a developer that I have even visited.

I will not threaten to not buy any more of their games until I get what I want regarding a property that has already been released. I will not call the developers names and say how they're not listening to feedback because they're not giving people what they want regarding a property that has already been released.

I will, most likely, be pre-ordering Dragon Age 3 when it is announced, assuming I can afford it at the time. If they release a Mass Effect 4, I will likely buy that as well as I want to know where they go from the end of Mass Effect 3. I will also, most likely buy Mass Effect 3 DLC to see what they come up with to augment the game (and that's what the purpose of DLC really is). Although honestly, I'll probably not buy just costume packs as I don't see the point in these personally. They don't change the game experience for me.

I totally respect your opinion (hell I enjoyed 90% of the game), but I don't think responsible consumers should let Bioware/EA off the hook that easily, in regards to promising one thing, and delivering something else.  I'm not against Bioware, but I think they should be held to their word.  Next time it may not just be a horrid ending, full of plot holes, and outright lies about the endgame content, but it may be a situation more akin to Asura's Wrath.  Buy this "complete" game, but you get through it and the end is missing and to be sold at a later date.  Or other simple lies like a dev saying "Its 50 hours long!!" and its really only 10 hours, or whatnot.  


That said, I'll wait and see what this so called Extended Cut will have in it.  If it doesn't provide the gauss this festering ending needs, then Bioware has lost my buisness.

Okay.  As regards the promising one thing and delivering soething else.  I can't deny that, I wouldn't even begin to try personally.  Now that I've seen the precise wording of what someone fairly high up in the chain said about the endigns being wildly different (I forget who and what the exact wording was) I won't even try to say that people are interpreting what was said differently to how it was meant.  (Which is something I did before I knew the exact wording, with the caveat that I didn't know exactly what someone had said.)  That is something that has to be different for the next game in my opinion.

I'm looking forwards to the extended cut, partly to see if my speculation is right and partly to see what else they come up with that I haven't even thought of.  It won't stop me buying DA3 for sure as that, as far as I know, is made by a completely different team.  It may influence my decision on a future ME4 if they make it.  But likely only in a do I pre-order it or wait until it's been out a while and the price has dropped as I really do want to know how they go from the end of ME3 to another game, especially with all the relays destroyed (I have speculation about that as well that I would love to see confirmed or denied).

[Dragoonlordz]

Alamar2078 wrote...

I imagine if there was a survey they would be expected to publish results ... results that they may or may not like. Even if the survey went BW's way I wouldn't really "believe" it personally

There is no reason to publish a poll or survey with this fanbase. They dismiss anything they don't agree with. Especially the anti-ending crowd. The majority of this very thread shows this with all the whining about not listening to them when the fact is they did listen, they just chose a different solution, a solution for some of their own group asked for. Giving the tin foil hat mentality for some of this fanbase they would scream and hiss BW or EA paid off x, y or z if did not go in their favor.