334 réponses à ce sujet

[viperabyss]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Sell it buy something else might enjoy more.

Return it when found out? Nope you chose to keep, all your choices.

They did not force you to do anything.

Sure. Let all those people who are unsatisfied with the product return their games (assuming if they can). Bioware / EA then had to eat a lot of those return costs, and EA would conclude that people don't like Mass Effect. Bioware would no longer develop Mass Effect.

So who wins? Bioware doesn't win, because one of their biggest releases is now a big flop. EA doesn't win, because they will take a huge loss. Mass Effect fans don't win, because the universe and characters they grew to love would no longer to developed.

So your comment really doesn't help anyone. 

Bioware has an unique opportunity to change the ending, so fans would continue to invest in the franchise. And seriously, the discontent did not brew from the difference of perception, or even "because it was sad". The discontent started because Bioware abandoned what made Mass Effect great in the last moment. This is not an issue of artistic integrity. This is an issue of basic creative writing skill.

And why are people whining? Because they know Bioware would listen to them, and modify the game to their liking. If they know Bioware couldn't care less about their opinion, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

[Transgirlgamer]

Keldaurz wrote...

Transgirlgamer wrote...

Keldaurz wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

One reason is that, generally, we have our own ideas about how to design games and stories and don't design them by committee in collaboration with the players. That's not really how the developer-player relationship works.

Tell that to the quest surveys on SWTOR.

AN MMO game is a different thing to a stand alone game.  An MMO game is a continuous experience that relies on the players to make up a lot of it's content.  By that, I don't mean it's story or quests, I mean the community of the game which people interact with every time they log onto the servers.  I have stopped playing MMO games as I haven't enjoyed the community the players and developers working together had built.  The first MMO I played was Star Wars Galaxies and I got into it because I really enjoyed the community, despite the repetatie grinding.  Until SOE stopped listening to the playerbase they already had and turned it into a WoW clone with a Star Wars skin.  The community died, my interest was lost and now, the game itself has closed down.

Mass Effect 3 however, is a single story.  It is much more like a book or a film whilst an MMO is more like a traitional, pen and paper or tabletop RPG.  You don't go to your favourite author or director and say 'Change this about this book/film you released' and expect them to actually do it.  It just won't happen.  Mass Effect: Deception was a special case that I don't know the details about so I can't comment on why it was a special case.

Did you know about what the surveys were ? One of the questions was always about the story. Something which has nothing to do with what you are trying to talk about. Please.

What I am talking about in the quoted post is how SWTOR is different to ME3.  In an MMO, player/developer interaction is different to in a, mostly, single player game.  That's all I was trying to say, the rest was my reasoning behind it.

[TheJiveDJ]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Zeppex wrote...

Well then why ask for player feedback at all? Why makes statements that literally state we created something with you.

Then make other statements like, we didn't know there was a demand for it.

If you tell give me feedback on what we can do better, the people giving you that feedback will generally believe that you will take that into consideration. Unless your just asking to make them feel important,

Yes, but some people interpret "please give us feedback"n as "tell us what to do and we'll for sure do it." Some people believe "I disagree with what you did" is shorthand for "you have to fix things to my specification." And some believe "I suggest this" to be the same as "AGREE WITH ME BECAUSE I'M RIGHT!" This is where discussions start to break down and why so many unproductive arguments happen in the community.

I don't believe the majority feel that way Stan.  Bottom line is Mass Effect was heavily marketed in a certain way, and BW failed to deliver on it's promises.  The real lesson here is that BW should be more careful about what they say to the community in the first place.  Hiding behind, "some people interpret it this way..." is simply a cop out.  Mr. Hudson made some very absolute statements during the advertising of this game which turned out to be false plain and simple.

[Dragoonlordz]

viperabyss wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Sell it buy something else might enjoy more.

Return it when found out? Nope you chose to keep, all your choices.

They did not force you to do anything.

Sure. Let all those people who are unsatisfied with the product return their games (assuming if they can). Bioware / EA then had to eat a lot of those return costs, and EA would conclude that people don't like Mass Effect. Bioware would no longer develop Mass Effect.

So who wins? Bioware doesn't win, because one of their biggest releases is now a big flop. EA doesn't win, because they will take a huge loss. Mass Effect fans don't win, because the universe and characters they grew to love would no longer to developed.

So your comment really doesn't help anyone. 

Bioware has an unique opportunity to change the ending, so fans would continue to invest in the franchise. And seriously, the discontent did not brew from the difference of perception, or even "because it was sad". The discontent started because Bioware abandoned what made Mass Effect great in the last moment. This is not an issue of artistic integrity. This is an issue of basic creative writing skill.

And why are people whining? Because they know Bioware would listen to them, and modify the game to their liking. If they know Bioware couldn't care less about their opinion, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

EA and Bioware would continue to be fine thanks. ME will still exist and more title will come out because you simply do not have enough evidence to back up such claims. You reverted to hyperbole when started saying they will flop, no more ME and such. Unless your magic 8 ball is superior to my magic 8 ball then such assumptions have no grounds. Bioware did listen, they made a choice and the reason we are having this conversation is because some people can't get it through their heads they made their choice. Simple self denial.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 12 avril 2012 - 06:46 .

[DreamTension]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Alamar2078 wrote...

I imagine if there was a survey they would be expected to publish results ... results that they may or may not like. Even if the survey went BW's way I wouldn't really "believe" it personally

There is no reason to publish a poll or survey with this fanbase. They dismiss anything they don't agree with. Especially the anti-ending crowd. The majority of this very thread shows this with all the whining about not listening to them when the fact is they did listen, they just chose a different solution, a solution for some of their own group asked for. Giving the tin foil hat mentality for some of this fanbase they would scream and hiss BW or EA paid off x, y or z if did not go in their favor.

By anti-enders, you mean the vocal minority or the vast majority?  There have been enough polls showing that the majority of the fans do not like the ending.  Hey, here's one via CNET.  

[TransientNomad]

Transgirlgamer wrote...

Keldaurz wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

One reason is that, generally, we have our own ideas about how to design games and stories and don't design them by committee in collaboration with the players. That's not really how the developer-player relationship works.

Tell that to the quest surveys on SWTOR.

AN MMO game is a different thing to a stand alone game.  An MMO game is a continuous experience that relies on the players to make up a lot of it's content.  By that, I don't mean it's story or quests, I mean the community of the game which people interact with every time they log onto the servers.  I have stopped playing MMO games as I haven't enjoyed the community the players and developers working together had built.  The first MMO I played was Star Wars Galaxies and I got into it because I really enjoyed the community, despite the repetatie grinding.  Until SOE stopped listening to the playerbase they already had and turned it into a WoW clone with a Star Wars skin.  The community died, my interest was lost and now, the game itself has closed down.

Mass Effect 3 however, is a single story.  It is much more like a book or a film whilst an MMO is more like a traitional, pen and paper or tabletop RPG.  You don't go to your favourite author or director and say 'Change this about this book/film you released' and expect them to actually do it.  It just won't happen.  Mass Effect: Deception was a special case that I don't know the details about so I can't comment on why it was a special case.

The book was terribly recieved, had a laundry list of plotholes and inconsistancies, and was a insult to ME lore.  Some would argue this is the same case with the games ending.  Still, endings have been changed in films and novels before in a number of different ways.  Harry Potter was originally slated to die but test audiences were against it.  In Clerks, the same thing was going to happen to the main character, but audiences were against it.  Bladerunner's director cut changed the theme of the entire original film.  The list goes on, with both big and small films and novels benefiting from test audiences and after release reactions

[Dragoonlordz]

DreamTension wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Alamar2078 wrote...

I imagine if there was a survey they would be expected to publish results ... results that they may or may not like. Even if the survey went BW's way I wouldn't really "believe" it personally

There is no reason to publish a poll or survey with this fanbase. They dismiss anything they don't agree with. Especially the anti-ending crowd. The majority of this very thread shows this with all the whining about not listening to them when the fact is they did listen, they just chose a different solution, a solution for some of their own group asked for. Giving the tin foil hat mentality for some of this fanbase they would scream and hiss BW or EA paid off x, y or z if did not go in their favor.

By anti-enders, you mean the vocal minority or the vast majority?  There have been enough polls showing that the majority of the fans do not like the ending.  Hey, here's one via CNET.  

It is a vocal minority asking for change. Keyword "vocal".

It might be majority who disliked or not, you have to rely on assumptions that those 60k original vocal or the 83% of the 20k vocal in that poll stand for 83% of 3.5+ million customers who bought it. No matter how you look at it, it is an assumption that the ratios match when scaled up.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 12 avril 2012 - 06:51 .

[DreamTension]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

viperabyss wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Sell it buy something else might enjoy more.

Return it when found out? Nope you chose to keep, all your choices.

They did not force you to do anything.

Sure. Let all those people who are unsatisfied with the product return their games (assuming if they can). Bioware / EA then had to eat a lot of those return costs, and EA would conclude that people don't like Mass Effect. Bioware would no longer develop Mass Effect.

So who wins? Bioware doesn't win, because one of their biggest releases is now a big flop. EA doesn't win, because they will take a huge loss. Mass Effect fans don't win, because the universe and characters they grew to love would no longer to developed.

So your comment really doesn't help anyone. 

Bioware has an unique opportunity to change the ending, so fans would continue to invest in the franchise. And seriously, the discontent did not brew from the difference of perception, or even "because it was sad". The discontent started because Bioware abandoned what made Mass Effect great in the last moment. This is not an issue of artistic integrity. This is an issue of basic creative writing skill.

And why are people whining? Because they know Bioware would listen to them, and modify the game to their liking. If they know Bioware couldn't care less about their opinion, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

EA and Bioware would continue to be fine thanks. ME will still exist and more title will come out because you simply do not have enough evidence to back up such claims. You reverted to hyperbole when started saying they will flop, no more ME and such. Unless your magic 8 ball is superior to my magic 8 ball then such assumptions have no grounds. Bioware did listen, they made a choice and the reason we are having this conversation is because some people can't get it through their heads they made their choice. Simple self denial.

Yeah, EA will be fine because they make other games including (somehow) one of the top selling games each year (Madden).  I don't know if you can just assume BioWare will be fine if the loyal fans stop buying content and future games.  This hinges on an ability to predict the future and future sales and if I could do that I certainly would be very rich.  

[Transgirlgamer]

Ownedbacon wrote...

Transgirlgamer wrote...

Keldaurz wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

One reason is that, generally, we have our own ideas about how to design games and stories and don't design them by committee in collaboration with the players. That's not really how the developer-player relationship works.

Tell that to the quest surveys on SWTOR.

AN MMO game is a different thing to a stand alone game.  An MMO game is a continuous experience that relies on the players to make up a lot of it's content.  By that, I don't mean it's story or quests, I mean the community of the game which people interact with every time they log onto the servers.  I have stopped playing MMO games as I haven't enjoyed the community the players and developers working together had built.  The first MMO I played was Star Wars Galaxies and I got into it because I really enjoyed the community, despite the repetatie grinding.  Until SOE stopped listening to the playerbase they already had and turned it into a WoW clone with a Star Wars skin.  The community died, my interest was lost and now, the game itself has closed down.

Mass Effect 3 however, is a single story.  It is much more like a book or a film whilst an MMO is more like a traitional, pen and paper or tabletop RPG.  You don't go to your favourite author or director and say 'Change this about this book/film you released' and expect them to actually do it.  It just won't happen.  Mass Effect: Deception was a special case that I don't know the details about so I can't comment on why it was a special case.

Regarding Mass Effect: Deception
http://kotaku.com/58...a-ton-of-errors
https://docs.google....?pli=1&sle=true

First, thank you for the links.  They've cleared up for me why Deception was a special case.

Basically it's because Deception had things that were in direct conflict with established canon.  In a book that's part of a series, that is something that should have been caught by the editors before it even went to press.  That it wasn't, is was really sloppy on their part.

ME3 is different as (as far as I can recall) nothing happens that is in direct conflict with established canon.  It's entirely possible that the godchild is somehow in the citadel somewhere we've never been before, or even it's a group of programmes in it's systems somewhere.  To paraphrase something I said in a post that said gay men shouldn't be in ME3 because they're not in the first two games, just because we haven't seen it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  And the same can be said for anything that is introduced in ME3, as far as I can remember.

[Dragoonlordz]

DreamTension wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

viperabyss wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Sell it buy something else might enjoy more.

Return it when found out? Nope you chose to keep, all your choices.

They did not force you to do anything.

Sure. Let all those people who are unsatisfied with the product return their games (assuming if they can). Bioware / EA then had to eat a lot of those return costs, and EA would conclude that people don't like Mass Effect. Bioware would no longer develop Mass Effect.

So who wins? Bioware doesn't win, because one of their biggest releases is now a big flop. EA doesn't win, because they will take a huge loss. Mass Effect fans don't win, because the universe and characters they grew to love would no longer to developed.

So your comment really doesn't help anyone. 

Bioware has an unique opportunity to change the ending, so fans would continue to invest in the franchise. And seriously, the discontent did not brew from the difference of perception, or even "because it was sad". The discontent started because Bioware abandoned what made Mass Effect great in the last moment. This is not an issue of artistic integrity. This is an issue of basic creative writing skill.

And why are people whining? Because they know Bioware would listen to them, and modify the game to their liking. If they know Bioware couldn't care less about their opinion, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

EA and Bioware would continue to be fine thanks. ME will still exist and more title will come out because you simply do not have enough evidence to back up such claims. You reverted to hyperbole when started saying they will flop, no more ME and such. Unless your magic 8 ball is superior to my magic 8 ball then such assumptions have no grounds. Bioware did listen, they made a choice and the reason we are having this conversation is because some people can't get it through their heads they made their choice. Simple self denial.

Yeah, EA will be fine because they make other games including (somehow) one of the top selling games each year (Madden).  I don't know if you can just assume BioWare will be fine if the loyal fans stop buying content and future games.  This hinges on an ability to predict the future and future sales and if I could do that I certainly would be very rich.  

You do realise Bioware has around eight studios under their banner and that Bioware is a brand?

[Keldaurz]

Transgirlgamer wrote...

Keldaurz wrote...

Transgirlgamer wrote...

Keldaurz wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

One reason is that, generally, we have our own ideas about how to design games and stories and don't design them by committee in collaboration with the players. That's not really how the developer-player relationship works.

Tell that to the quest surveys on SWTOR.

AN MMO game is a different thing to a stand alone game.  An MMO game is a continuous experience that relies on the players to make up a lot of it's content.  By that, I don't mean it's story or quests, I mean the community of the game which people interact with every time they log onto the servers.  I have stopped playing MMO games as I haven't enjoyed the community the players and developers working together had built.  The first MMO I played was Star Wars Galaxies and I got into it because I really enjoyed the community, despite the repetatie grinding.  Until SOE stopped listening to the playerbase they already had and turned it into a WoW clone with a Star Wars skin.  The community died, my interest was lost and now, the game itself has closed down.

Mass Effect 3 however, is a single story.  It is much more like a book or a film whilst an MMO is more like a traitional, pen and paper or tabletop RPG.  You don't go to your favourite author or director and say 'Change this about this book/film you released' and expect them to actually do it.  It just won't happen.  Mass Effect: Deception was a special case that I don't know the details about so I can't comment on why it was a special case.

Did you know about what the surveys were ? One of the questions was always about the story. Something which has nothing to do with what you are trying to talk about. Please.

What I am talking about in the quoted post is how SWTOR is different to ME3.  In an MMO, player/developer interaction is different to in a, mostly, single player game.  That's all I was trying to say, the rest was my reasoning behind it.

But your reasons are just made up by the moment. Feedback is always useful for developers because when you make a product, you want to know what was spot on and what was way off in order to growth as a developer. It's basic, you just wanted to assume stories can't be affected by players, viewers and or readers, when reality actually proves you are wrong and that's why there are "testers" for everything before releasing.

Modifié par Keldaurz, 12 avril 2012 - 06:53 .

[Talogrungi]

Well, the cynical school of thought would naturally say that Bioware don't want to survey all the players on the ending as, if the results were largely negative, it would impair their ability to write off "the vocal minority".

True or false, it's a fairly simple conclusion to come to.

[viperabyss]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

EA and Bioware would continue to be fine thanks. ME will still exist and more title will come out because you simply do not have enough evidence to back up such claims. You reverted to hyperbole when started saying they will flop, no more ME and such. Unless your magic 8 ball is superior to my magic 8 ball then such assumptions have no grounds. Bioware did listen, they made a choice and the reason we are having this conversation is because some people can't get it through their heads they made their choice. Simple self denial.

I never said EA and Bioware would go bankrupt. However, Mass Effect is a huge IP for Bioware. That is a fact. If people on this forum return their game (assuming they can), would Bioware has more incentive to build another sequel? Would EA be happy to fund them for another sequel?

Bioware did listen, but obviously they haven't figured out the real message behind the complaints. They thought the complaints originated from the fact that there weren't enough personalization. But while that's indeed a problem, but real problem is that the ending simply did not fit into the game, and it doesn't make sense. Take a look at the panel for PAX East, or even the answers given by the dev team to the fans. The dev team can't even answer the questions properly themselves.

It's funny that you said self denial. Let's see who's in denial: me, who's taking an event to its logical conclusion, or you, who basically just said, "you're wrong"?

[Artking3]

I'm already upset about the post-ending DLC text, I don't need a survey to further pull me out of my game immersion.

[DreamTension]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

DreamTension wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Alamar2078 wrote...

I imagine if there was a survey they would be expected to publish results ... results that they may or may not like. Even if the survey went BW's way I wouldn't really "believe" it personally

There is no reason to publish a poll or survey with this fanbase. They dismiss anything they don't agree with. Especially the anti-ending crowd. The majority of this very thread shows this with all the whining about not listening to them when the fact is they did listen, they just chose a different solution, a solution for some of their own group asked for. Giving the tin foil hat mentality for some of this fanbase they would scream and hiss BW or EA paid off x, y or z if did not go in their favor.

By anti-enders, you mean the vocal minority or the vast majority?  There have been enough polls showing that the majority of the fans do not like the ending.  Hey, here's one via CNET.  

It is a vocal minority asking for change. Keyword "vocal".

It might be majority who disliked or not, you have to rely on assumptions that those 60k original vocal or the 83% of the 20k vocal in that poll stand for 83% of 3.5+ million customers who bought it.

Hmmm.  Free advice: Don't work in any business that involves sales.

The only reason they sold nearly as much as they have is because of the very large fan base BioWare has built through the years.  The first month was largely negative press and reactions and sales have declined (expected to decline, but not at this level). 

Amazon and othe retailers have this game at reduced rates.  There is an issue at hand.  It takes very little to ****** off a customer, but it takes a hell of a lot more to get them back.  You believe it will not affect future sales, I am little bit torn on the issue, but I guess if I had to choose I am on the other side (it will affect sales).

[Njald]

Stanley Woo wrote...

One reason is that, generally, we have our own ideas about how to design games and stories and don't design them by committee in collaboration with the players. That's not really how the developer-player relationship works.

 

There is only one "demand" I think Bioware should heed from players: "make games worthy of our money".  
ME3 is not that. If you want more information as to why we think that, then check some of the soon to be 1 million replies in this subforum. 
 
So as much as you're not designing by committe, I find comments like these wasted in an enviroment like the current where the basic developer-player relationship is nonfunctional. So, get cracking and stop skipping too many corners due to shortage of time and money or you will face situations where you will have neither.

Modifié par Njald, 12 avril 2012 - 06:58 .

[Dragoonlordz]

viperabyss wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

EA and Bioware would continue to be fine thanks. ME will still exist and more title will come out because you simply do not have enough evidence to back up such claims. You reverted to hyperbole when started saying they will flop, no more ME and such. Unless your magic 8 ball is superior to my magic 8 ball then such assumptions have no grounds. Bioware did listen, they made a choice and the reason we are having this conversation is because some people can't get it through their heads they made their choice. Simple self denial.

I never said EA and Bioware would go bankrupt. However, Mass Effect is a huge IP for Bioware. That is a fact. If people on this forum return their game (assuming they can), would Bioware has more incentive to build another sequel? Would EA be happy to fund them for another sequel?

Bioware did listen, but obviously they haven't figured out the real message behind the complaints. They thought the complaints originated from the fact that there weren't enough personalization. But while that's indeed a problem, but real problem is that the ending simply did not fit into the game, and it doesn't make sense. Take a look at the panel for PAX East, or even the answers given by the dev team to the fans. The dev team can't even answer the questions properly themselves.

It's funny that you said self denial. Let's see who's in denial: me, who's taking an event to its logical conclusion, or you, who basically just said, "you're wrong"?

It is not a logical conclusion if read my responses to Dream. If you have been around here for long time you should know this. Every single title these days has the same people trying to paint a picture of it's the end of the world or road for Bioware, every single time they are proven wrong over and over and this time is no different.

[DreamTension]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

You do realise Bioware has around eight studios under their banner and that Bioware is a brand?

No, I didn't realize they had eight.  Not sure what you mean by studios.  Is that production teams?  Or is that like different developing teams with different buildings and so on?  I thought they had like three.

Of course BioWare is a brand...Brands can get tarnished very easily.  Brands can also be absorbed by the parent company very easily. 

[Njald]

Ownedbacon wrote...

Just got me wondering, why BioWare didn't have an in-game survey (post Mass Effect 3 release) using our EA accounts or one through Xbox Live, Playstation Network, and/or Origin to determine the fan reaction to the ending?

These input channels already tell Bioware/EA what they need to know : "do people play the game, how much, for how long?" "are they buying our DLCs?" 
 
I'm hoping these tell a telling story.

[Transgirlgamer]

TransientNomad wrote...

Transgirlgamer wrote...

Keldaurz wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

One reason is that, generally, we have our own ideas about how to design games and stories and don't design them by committee in collaboration with the players. That's not really how the developer-player relationship works.

Tell that to the quest surveys on SWTOR.

AN MMO game is a different thing to a stand alone game.  An MMO game is a continuous experience that relies on the players to make up a lot of it's content.  By that, I don't mean it's story or quests, I mean the community of the game which people interact with every time they log onto the servers.  I have stopped playing MMO games as I haven't enjoyed the community the players and developers working together had built.  The first MMO I played was Star Wars Galaxies and I got into it because I really enjoyed the community, despite the repetatie grinding.  Until SOE stopped listening to the playerbase they already had and turned it into a WoW clone with a Star Wars skin.  The community died, my interest was lost and now, the game itself has closed down.

Mass Effect 3 however, is a single story.  It is much more like a book or a film whilst an MMO is more like a traitional, pen and paper or tabletop RPG.  You don't go to your favourite author or director and say 'Change this about this book/film you released' and expect them to actually do it.  It just won't happen.  Mass Effect: Deception was a special case that I don't know the details about so I can't comment on why it was a special case.

The book was terribly recieved, had a laundry list of plotholes and inconsistancies, and was a insult to ME lore.  Some would argue this is the same case with the games ending.  Still, endings have been changed in films and novels before in a number of different ways.  Harry Potter was originally slated to die but test audiences were against it.  In Clerks, the same thing was going to happen to the main character, but audiences were against it.  Bladerunner's director cut changed the theme of the entire original film.  The list goes on, with both big and small films and novels benefiting from test audiences and after release reactions

J.K. Rowling didn't release a version that had Harry die, then change it due to fan outcry.  As far as I know, with Clerks, that was changed before release.  With things like directors cuts, it's a little different.  Do they change things because of fan outcry or because the directors feel that things should have been different to how they were released?  Look at Star Wars for a prime example, George Lucas refuses to changing it back to Han shooting first as was in the original because it doesn't fit how he wants the film to be, despite a huge fan reaction against it.  And that changes hardly anything in the story.

[Dragoonlordz]

DreamTension wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

DreamTension wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Alamar2078 wrote...

I imagine if there was a survey they would be expected to publish results ... results that they may or may not like. Even if the survey went BW's way I wouldn't really "believe" it personally

There is no reason to publish a poll or survey with this fanbase. They dismiss anything they don't agree with. Especially the anti-ending crowd. The majority of this very thread shows this with all the whining about not listening to them when the fact is they did listen, they just chose a different solution, a solution for some of their own group asked for. Giving the tin foil hat mentality for some of this fanbase they would scream and hiss BW or EA paid off x, y or z if did not go in their favor.

By anti-enders, you mean the vocal minority or the vast majority?  There have been enough polls showing that the majority of the fans do not like the ending.  Hey, here's one via CNET.  

It is a vocal minority asking for change. Keyword "vocal".

It might be majority who disliked or not, you have to rely on assumptions that those 60k original vocal or the 83% of the 20k vocal in that poll stand for 83% of 3.5+ million customers who bought it.

Hmmm.  Free advice: Don't work in any business that involves sales.

The only reason they sold nearly as much as they have is because of the very large fan base BioWare has built through the years.  The first month was largely negative press and reactions and sales have declined (expected to decline, but not at this level). 

Amazon and othe retailers have this game at reduced rates.  There is an issue at hand.  It takes very little to ****** off a customer, but it takes a hell of a lot more to get them back.  You believe it will not affect future sales, I am little bit torn on the issue, but I guess if I had to choose I am on the other side (it will affect sales).

There is an impact on sales, the disagreement is scale of impact. It is no where near the level the ones demanding change pretend will be if do not cave in to their demands. That same mentality is why 'pre-order cancelled' has become a meme. More huff and puff than reality shows to be the case.

[Rammastus]

People who are against the ending really need to stop saying "It was not supposed to be an A,B,C ending." No matter if there is 3, 16, or 1558 endings, they are always setup in the A,B,C style. I think it might help your case if you specify that it is the amount of endings that you are upset about as opposed to the A,B,C style. The only way I can think of to not have that style is to have an infinite number of endings, which at this point in time is impossible. Another thing I can suggest is to stop cluttering the forums with the constant new posts about how "crappy" the ending was Actually try to get one or two stickied so the rest of us can easily find and contribute to the forum posts that actually have questions or whatnot. The sheer number of new complaint posts each day is hurting your case rather than helping it. Just a few ideas to think about.

[Chronor]

Hmmm. Dragoonlordz et al. seems to have a disconnect to the central issue of all this. Personally, I agree that BW is the author of ME3, and they should tell the story in whatever manner they choose. However, things fall apart when they actively state and encourage feedback in shaping said story. Obviously, you are going to have people dissatisfied if their feedback is not being incorporated. Just normal human behavior.

Much of the frustration being expressed here and elsewhere can really be boiled down to all the lies that have been propogated prior to launch. Make no mistake, when these statements were made, the game was gold, meaning nothing will be changed unless testing revealed technical faults. So when Priestly states that fans WILL NOT expect A, B, C ending, but that's actually what we got, ... well I don't understand how you or anyone else in your camp can defend that? This is much more than the typical or normal hype associated with games pre-launch. These were actual promises of the finished product that, ultimately, were not delivered.

As for the "listening to feedback", technically BW may have listened. However, do you honestly think that what they are delivering in the EC is actually what the majority of the fanbase wanted? To me, it seems that this EC is actually the most cost-effective and economical way for BW and EA to handle the debacle because, let's be honest, money is the ultimate mover here. How much easier or economical do you think it is for them to add additional cutscenes and dialogue compared to a full rewrite of current ending or even additional ENDINGS? This is just BW taking the easier route rather than the most effective that will pacify the majority of the people who dislike the current ending. Personally, I do not condone that because while clarification and closure is good, the ending is still just as bad no matter how you slice it.

I don't know about you, but I would rather not be sheep that just takes whatever is being fed to it. Where money and promised expectations are involved, I would rather BW do more than just a token attempt to assuage the masses.

If BW was actually listening, then they would have realized that clarification and closure was only one of several points that should have been addressed with the DLC.  At the very least, BW should have been able to defend their "artistic vision."  Guess what?  There's NONE.  What does that say?

Modifié par Chronor, 12 avril 2012 - 07:08 .

[FOX216BC]

@Dragoonlordz  Please stop posting over and over again.
I have seen you do it in many other topics as well.
Clearly you don't agree with most people in this topic.
A reasonable person would simply move to another topic.
Preferably one to his/her liking.

Don't you see the irony in what you are doing here.
I'll give you a hint "vocal minority", keyword "vocal"

Modifié par FOX216BC, 12 avril 2012 - 07:21 .

[xHarrison23]

Stanley Woo wrote...

One reason is that, generally, we have our own ideas about how to design games and stories and don't design them by committee in collaboration with the players. That's not really how the developer-player relationship works.

i will remember that the players have no input in Bioware games when I go to buy another game. Ask DICE, CDPROJEKT RED, EPIC, or any other studios how much player input is considered during design. That is actually how the dveloper-player relationships usually work. They tweak stats and elements of their game all the time for players, hell DICE added in commo rose in beta stage becasue PC players wanted it.