193 réponses à ce sujet

[rapscallioness]

someguy1231 wrote...

IMO, criticizing her as "fanservice" is pointless, because EVERY character in ME3 is "fanservice" in some way. All of the LIs are fanservice to their respective fans, the returning ME1 characters are fanservice to the veteran ME1 gamers, Cortez is fanservice to the gay and yaoi fangirl gamers, Vega is fanservice to newcomers, etc.

That being said, I too disliked Allers, but mainly for three reasons: She can't voice act at all, her character is relatively shallow, and her presence in the game creates a conflict of interest for IGN. I also found her character model creepy, but I generally find all of them creepy because Bioware is stuck in the Uncanny Valley. That's a big part of why I vastly prefer the alien characters over human/asari characters.

yeah, you're right. it is pretty much all fanservice to some degree.

And Yes! the character model was so creepy. But then so was Kaidan's, imo. Ugh. A good 60% of the time Kaidan's face was just.....Uncanny Valley. Idk if it was the lack of eyelashes? Idk what it was. But there were times when I just stopped in mid dialogue trying to figure out what was going on here. "Dude, what's up with your face?"  And there was this unnatural bright light on him all the time.

Some character animations in ME3 were superb, but then some looked like they were assigned to an apprentice. When he's laying in the hospital even his body looks Uncanny Valley. Ack.

So, it wasn't just Diana Allers.

[firebreather19]

Apparently enough people take IGN seriously that it can be implied Bioware gave Chobot a part to secure a good review.




Does anyone even slightly care that's the route people take when they think?

[Joeybsmooth4]

Funny how many people think Hale was the better Commander voice. I mean with all this woman hate going around it would seem that people would hate her too. Or it could be something besides people hating women in general that is the issue with Jessica.

[Kajan451]

pants witch wrote...

So you're saying... that my having a problem with people who deride women for being "****ty"... means I have an issue?  Like, an ISSUE issue?  Like, there's a problem in my head for taking offense to ****-shaming and sexism?  If that's what you're saying, you need to step the hell down.

While i don't really care for the two of you fighting, you are dangerously close to hurting your cause.

I am going to be very much of a sexist now and tell you: You start to sound like a frigid emancipationist. And i am quite certain you are certainly not one, nor would you like to come across like one.

Going ballistic at sexists only reinforces their image of jangling women that take offense thanks to being overly emotional.

Stating your opinion in a clear and logical way, will get you futher with your cause, and will be more likely heard and understood by people around you. Especially the closeminded men you are upset about.

[XTR3M3]

No offense to Ms. Chobot, but I didn't want anyone new for that role. As soon as I saw what they did with her, I was like "Why they hell didn't they let you have Emily or Khalisah for this role.....and better yet, CHOOSE between Emily or Khalisah?"

Calling us whiners is what sealed her coffin for me. She NEVER gets on the Normandy anymore only because I can't shoot her out an airlock. It doesn't matter anyway since she only gets you 5 EMS points....well actually 2 1/2 since I don't play multiplayer....so no big loss.

[shadowreflexion]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

Misogyny is the hatred of women or girls. That's just a general definition.

I see people throw this around a lot when people talk about Diana Allers and Jessica Chobot. She's a terrible voice actor, her behavior isn't exactly modest, and she's not a super nice person either. She called us all whiners.

No way she should have been in the game. There are many talented voice actors out there, why not give them a nice break?

Does this mean that I hate myself, as well?

No, there's a difference between hating someone for their gender as opposed to strongly disliking someone for a lack of talent that could have been usefull elsewhere. The way she could not convey emotion was one of my reasons why, I didn't enjoy talking to her throughtout the game. I stopped paying attention to her when I noticed that during times of great duress, damn near every news anchor that I have ever watched has had some form of solemn reverence.

Her lack of talent could not keep pace with the other voice cast crew. I know that we have an opportunity to not have her on the ship but honestly, that should not have been a choice regardless. The resources used for her character model could have been applied to Tali's face model, Emily Wong's return, (She was promised that exclusive.) or even a squadmate from ME2. It's just hard to believe that for an emotional engaging story, she was the better choice to be the voice for a galaxy.

No, you don't hate her, you just can see just like many others what a waste her character was. Why try to give a new role (albeit a small one) to a new character that didn't fit in anywhere? I mean, it wasn't her looks, her voice, so what the hell was it? It amazes me that if the people who play the game can be put off by her character from the first moment she's met on the Citadel then there isn't anyone who can tell me that the developers and the director couldn't see it and they have an ear for talent. I can really respect Simon Cowell because he would have just told her to keep doing what she was doing but she won't be doing it in ME3.

The love scenes that could have been deeper, detailed, and more meaningful with past crew members were scrapped in favor of a generic love scene with this character? I mean really? I've even taken James on a few missions and his comments are priceless and I was totally against his character replacing my old squad but he has a use. She had no emotion and could not get into character. I read her blog where she tries to defend her actions with this game and there were more than a few people who called her on it. The only thing she really did was "overtalk" the issue and try to defend the quality of her work at IGN. "I am not just the woman who licked a PSP!" That's all fine and good, she works and I can respect that. But she has no talent when it comes to voice work. I would have appreciated Olivia Munn and others compared to this woman.


Hate is a strong word and it makes things personal. But strongly disliking someone because they have no true ability is acceptable. This was supposed to be the final opus in a series that brought more to the table in this world of gaming. It should have been meticulously watched every step of the way. But instead, although a good game, we get cut content, broken story, and this woman. It can still be fixed by removing the war asset from her, reversing her role with Emily Wong, and then moving on to better things.

In closing, I don't think anyone truly hates her personally, just very dissatisfied with the choice to include her in the ME universe.

Modifié par shadowreflexion, 12 avril 2012 - 07:14 .

[Talogrungi]

I'd pick Hale over Meer, though Meer regained some ground in ME3.

Chobot's performance was pretty dire though.

[Grasich]

I just thought her character was god awful, and would have much preferred Emily, or hell, even Kalisah would have been preferable.

[Johanna]

Kajan451 wrote...

pants witch wrote...

So you're saying... that my having a problem with people who deride women for being "****ty"... means I have an issue?  Like, an ISSUE issue?  Like, there's a problem in my head for taking offense to ****-shaming and sexism?  If that's what you're saying, you need to step the hell down.

While i don't really care for the two of you fighting, you are dangerously close to hurting your cause.

I am going to be very much of a sexist now and tell you: You start to sound like a frigid emancipationist. And i am quite certain you are certainly not one, nor would you like to come across like one.

Going ballistic at sexists only reinforces their image of jangling women that take offense thanks to being overly emotional.

Stating your opinion in a clear and logical way, will get you futher with your cause, and will be more likely heard and understood by people around you. Especially the closeminded men you are upset about.

Wow.

[Myrmedus]

pants witch wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

pants witch wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

I would just like to point out one thing: there are quite a few posters in here who seem to find the word s*ut incredibly insulting, like a horrific swear word, yet are throwing the word misogyny around like a frisbee, which IMO is a far worse thing to call someone. Calling anyone who goes off on one about Allers/Chobot a misogynist is way, way too strong and makes me think some people have forgotten the meaning of the word:

Misogyny (play /mɪˈsɒdʒɪni/) is the hatred of women or girls.

Hatred, guys. Not even dislike or taking issue with but outright hatred. And on a generalist scale too (all women). Whether or not you take issue with people getting pissed off at her, to go as far as calling it misogyny is ridiculous and tantamount to calling a comedian a ****, and personally I find that far more disgusting than people using the word s*ut.

Yeah.  The real problem isn't shaming women for their sexuality, no.  The real, REAL problem is calling someone a misogynist when they do that.  Because it's so hard to be called out on your crap.

If you took the brainpower you used to come up with this backward theory and used it to understand this argument, you would come to understand that hatred is not always this obvious thing that anyone can see.  More often than not, it's insidious.

No, my issue is pitch-fork-like behaviour which some of this feels like. Alot of the posts throwing that term around are not balanced posts - they're not posts like:

"It's ****ed up to shame women but it's also ****ed up to throw the "misogynist" insult out at everyone who has a problem with Chobot."

Instead they're just "RAHR, MISOGYNISTS THE LOT OF YOU!"

No offense, but too bad.  If a bunch of people are around throwing out sexism and misogyny left and right, they're probably going to get called on it.  I'm not interested being "balanced" when it comes to that.  If some people can't handle that, they can always stop saying sexist and/or misogynist things.  Simple.

Then I'll reflect that back at you: too bad if you think they're being sexist, deal with it. Do as you expect others to do, if you want sensitivity give it in return. Act like a hard-ass and you'll get the same behaviour back. This is pretty much the first lesson you learn from your parents? It's simple.

It's like you expect everyone else to be civil but consider yourself, or the argument you're mounting, to be exempt from that.

I also think that's an issue that you may personally have that anyone or everyone who criticizes someone of your sex for being ****ty automatically hates your sex - that's called pigeon-holing.

So you're saying... that my having a problem with people who deride women for being "****ty"... means I have an issue?  Like, an ISSUE issue?  Like, there's a problem in my head for taking offense to ****-shaming and sexism?  If that's what you're saying, you need to step the hell down.

Well, firstly, I have to say I think this is kind of ridiculous, at least if I've read it correctly.

I'm not going to go into details about whether Chobot is a **** or not because I have no idea but the way I read this was like you take issue with someone being called out as a **** no matter what - as in, even if they are a complete **** and it's well known, you still take issue with it. That I think is ridiculous because I do not see why that particular thing should immune to criticism or being called out on. There are so many things in life we call people out on - heck, you think you're calling people out in this very thread on being misogynists - yet it's not ok for this one thing? I got a better idea: (again, not saying Chobot is doing this) don't act like a **** in the first place.

Sorry, I don't see why this should be one particular exception. Now, if your issue is actually that you simply don't think Chobot is a ****, or you think it's unfair to call her it based upon no information, then fine...but the generalist tone in this part of the post just seemed off.

Also I'm saying some people appear to be doing this:

"I take issue with people deriding women for being ****ty."

"These people are deriding a woman for being ****ty."

"Therefore they are misogynists aka they hate all women."

That's a huge leap of logic and ridiculous. There are alot of guys I dislike and to be honest some of them I don't know at all, does that make me a misandrist and therefore a self-hater?

Also, the insults depend on origin. For example, where I come from s*ut really isn't that bad a word and it's something I personally (and some others) call guys who behave in the same way as well. However, calling someone a misogynist or misanthrope is worse because it denotes actual hatred.

Stop saying hateful things, and you won't be called hateful.  It's easy.

In regards to Chobot, I don't think people saying her photos are ****ty are hateful, it's just a statement of fact. If they go so far as to say she slept with people in BW to get into the game then that's a step too far.

My own thoughts on this is just that I do take issue with her behaviour, it's true, but in this thread I'm more invested in the way that some people seem to be going off and generalizing a great deal based upon something that is actually only about one individual, whether just or not.

Modifié par Myrmedus, 12 avril 2012 - 07:14 .

[jumpingkaede]

Really how well known is Chobot anyway?

If Bioware wanted to put celebrity fanservice in their flagship IP they could've picked Jeri Ryan. Stick her in somewhere as a cyborg and everyone wins. Or even Olivia Munn.

[Siduri]

Kajan451 wrote...

Going ballistic at sexists only reinforces their image of jangling women that take offense thanks to being overly emotional.

Stating your opinion in a clear and logical way, will get you futher with your cause, and will be more likely heard and understood by people around you. Especially the closeminded men you are upset about.

This is the tone argument. It's often trotted out to try and shut down people who are pointing out sexism or racism. So often that it's actually become the butt of many jokes. Try googling "sexism bingo".

[zsom]

Joeybsmooth4 wrote...

For the people calling sexism when people call her same names, you should take in account that she said something close to "every woman who has made it popular have done sexy pictures" . That is a sexist and a slap in the face or many woman. While I do not think people should call her a **** making comments to that effect does not help her case at all .

Except she didn't say that... she said other successful women also had sexy pictures taken. Not the same thing by a mile...

[Myrmedus]

Siduri wrote...

Kajan451 wrote...

Going ballistic at sexists only reinforces their image of jangling women that take offense thanks to being overly emotional.

Stating your opinion in a clear and logical way, will get you futher with your cause, and will be more likely heard and understood by people around you. Especially the closeminded men you are upset about.

This is the tone argument. It's often trotted out to try and shut down people who are pointing out sexism or racism. So often that it's actually become the butt of many jokes. Try googling "sexism bingo".

Could you perhaps link to a more neutral site rather than one CALLED "geekfeminism".

[AVPen]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

pjotroos wrote...

I don't think she got the job for her looks, I think she got the job because she's supposed to be a geek magnet. I also think that's what lots of other people are thinking. It's stunt casting.

Yeah, there's that too.

That's what I actually pose as my main reason in threads about Chobot.

She's that perfect "gamer girl" that guys like. Anime, manga, video games in underwear and provocative positions. What guy wouldn't like her?

Raises hand.

[John Epler]

Aaand we're done.

Locking. For reasons that should be immediately obvious.

[Grasich]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Guys, be careful. This is getting dangerously close to becoming a flame war.

Pretty sure it's already gone there and beyond.

This thread needs a lock.

[syllogi]

pants witch wrote...

Kajan451 wrote...

pants witch wrote...

So you're saying... that my having a problem with people who deride women for being "****ty"... means I have an issue?  Like, an ISSUE issue?  Like, there's a problem in my head for taking offense to ****-shaming and sexism?  If that's what you're saying, you need to step the hell down.

While i don't really care for the two of you fighting, you are dangerously close to hurting your cause.

I am going to be very much of a sexist now and tell you: You start to sound like a frigid emancipationist. And i am quite certain you are certainly not one, nor would you like to come across like one.

Going ballistic at sexists only reinforces their image of jangling women that take offense thanks to being overly emotional.

Stating your opinion in a clear and logical way, will get you futher with your cause, and will be more likely heard and understood by people around you. Especially the closeminded men you are upset about.

Wow.

Beyond wow, I believe.  LOL.