266 réponses à ce sujet

[BaKaNoOB]

Gillityr The Original wrote...

No, I do not share that opinion. The melee instant kill is what makes those enemies scary, and require tactics.

This ^

[Trakarg]

helloesposito wrote...

Seems like no one enjoys a challenge. Don't get close until you can finish the job. I always see a vanguard charge or a korgan heavy melee at a banshee with full barriers and then is killed. Know you have limits, please.

Plenty of people enjoy a challenge.  The thing is, banshee, for example, are not challenging in the slightest.  Can you get in melee range of them?  No, you'll probably die.  That doesn't mean they're hard.  When you're at range, all they'll do is occasionally throw an easily-dodgeable ball of energy.  That's it.  Infiltrators and adepts will take a banshee down incredibly fast while the banshee practically bends over to take it.

Melee characters are already gimped from shields/health and melee damage being conflicting stats (when both are needed to be a viable melee character).  These bull**** insta-kills only make things worse for an already-marginalized type of character.

Play a krogan vanguard.  You're amazing against Geth.  Against Reapers and Cerberus?  You're a liability.  The krogan vanguard can't even hop back to avoid the (somewhat) avoidable insta-kills.  Human vanguards have a bit more leeway, seeing as they're easily able to dodge backwards and avoid brute/atlas/phantom insta kills.  They still can't charge a banshee, though.

[Bad Alchemy]

Anthunny wrote...

Gillityr The Original wrote...

No, I do not share that opinion. The melee instant kill is what makes those enemies scary, and require tactics.

THIS

+1

If there is no fear of being insta gibbed then everyone stands there using their skills instead of being pushed out of their positions into enemy fire, i.e no game vareity.

[JediNg]

Yeah.. you're on your own with that OP.

[tonnactus]

Samerandomscreennameidontcareabout wrote...


Phantoms are second only to banshees in terms of dangerousness.

You must be kidding. As an asari  adept or engineer only got killed when i dont paid attention and they came from behind.Otherwise stasis/decoy and they are dead in two shots. Thats not boss material if they are so easy to defeat(and they an be crowd controlled after their barrier is down).
Its even easy enough to just use shotguns like the disciple to just stagger them in one place.

Modifié par tonnactus, 13 avril 2012 - 11:18 .

[Biosplosions]

Trakarg wrote...

helloesposito wrote...

Seems like no one enjoys a challenge. Don't get close until you can finish the job. I always see a vanguard charge or a korgan heavy melee at a banshee with full barriers and then is killed. Know you have limits, please.

Plenty of people enjoy a challenge.  The thing is, banshee, for example, are not challenging in the slightest.  Can you get in melee range of them?  No, you'll probably die.  That doesn't mean they're hard.  When you're at range, all they'll do is occasionally throw an easily-dodgeable ball of energy.  That's it.  Infiltrators and adepts will take a banshee down incredibly fast while the banshee practically bends over to take it.

Melee characters are already gimped from shields/health and melee damage being conflicting stats (when both are needed to be a viable melee character).  These bull**** insta-kills only make things worse for an already-marginalized type of character.

Play a krogan vanguard.  You're amazing against Geth.  Against Reapers and Cerberus?  You're a liability.  The krogan vanguard can't even hop back to avoid the (somewhat) avoidable insta-kills.  Human vanguards have a bit more leeway, seeing as they're easily able to dodge backwards and avoid brute/atlas/phantom insta kills.  They still can't charge a banshee, though.

Exactly this. Biotic explosions make them a joke, but rest of the classes will take forever to kite and kill them with impunity. The only "challenging" part is during objective waves where they respawn next to you in swarms after nuking them with a missile which makes it a no. of missiles vs no. of banshees game.

Modifié par Biosplosions, 13 avril 2012 - 11:26 .

[Jayleia]

tonnactus wrote...

Its actually funny that a girl with a sword could instantly kill a krogan vanguard on silver.(a banshee is at least a boss enemy, a phantom isnt) What is the point of playing a vanguard when someone could only charge cannon fodder? And against elite and boss enemies all other classes are better?

I play a Vanguard, at least on bronze.  On bronze nothing stops me from charging Phantoms CHARGENOVAROLLBACKSHOTGUN

On silver they may be harder

CHARGENOVAROLLBACKSHOTGUNCHARGE...unless they can do their insta-kill while staggered...

[zRz Tyr]

SinerAthin wrote...

I'm fine with instakills on my human.

I'm fine with instakills on my Asari.

I'm fine with instakills on my Salarian.

I'm fine to a degree with instakills on my Turian.

However, I'm NOT fine with Instakills on my KROGAN!

This.

[Lexa_D]

Vanguards kill Phantoms rather easy
Asari with Stasis kill Phantoms as any mook
Everyone with Falcon (duno about Striker yet) can lock them into stagger until they are dead
Krogan on rage can melee it in 2 hits.

And now we see all this drama. Try picking other factions/difficulty levels

[Trakarg]

Jayleia wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Its actually funny that a girl with a sword could instantly kill a krogan vanguard on silver.(a banshee is at least a boss enemy, a phantom isnt) What is the point of playing a vanguard when someone could only charge cannon fodder? And against elite and boss enemies all other classes are better?

I play a Vanguard, at least on bronze.  On bronze nothing stops me from charging Phantoms CHARGENOVAROLLBACKSHOTGUN

On silver they may be harder

CHARGENOVAROLLBACKSHOTGUNCHARGE...unless they can do their insta-kill while staggered...

Krogan vanguards can't roll back.  Nor can they nova, actually.  Charging phantoms is a much more dangerous venture for someone without a dodge-roll.

Also, bronze lol.

[legion999]

I believe they should occur only when you have low health but apart from that I'm fine with them. Staggers on the other hand.... ugh.

[Igipopp]

I only find puzzling that my salarian engie (Derp his name), do well against cerb/geth but sucks against reapers. They seem to be ignoring the decoy. o_O

[bpzrn]

A Krogan crying about getting killed, LOL

[Escocido]

Trakarg wrote...

Jayleia wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Its actually funny that a girl with a sword could instantly kill a krogan vanguard on silver.(a banshee is at least a boss enemy, a phantom isnt) What is the point of playing a vanguard when someone could only charge cannon fodder? And against elite and boss enemies all other classes are better?

I play a Vanguard, at least on bronze.  On bronze nothing stops me from charging Phantoms CHARGENOVAROLLBACKSHOTGUN

On silver they may be harder

CHARGENOVAROLLBACKSHOTGUNCHARGE...unless they can do their insta-kill while staggered...

Krogan vanguards can't roll back.  Nor can they nova, actually.  Charging phantoms is a much more dangerous venture for someone without a dodge-roll.

Also, bronze lol.

On Silver and Gold: Charge-->WRRRAAAHAHA--->Shotgun blast. Still alive? Then charge again.

Only works on one at a a time, though.

[Trakarg]

Escocido wrote...

Trakarg wrote...

Jayleia wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Its actually funny that a girl with a sword could instantly kill a krogan vanguard on silver.(a banshee is at least a boss enemy, a phantom isnt) What is the point of playing a vanguard when someone could only charge cannon fodder? And against elite and boss enemies all other classes are better?

I play a Vanguard, at least on bronze.  On bronze nothing stops me from charging Phantoms CHARGENOVAROLLBACKSHOTGUN

On silver they may be harder

CHARGENOVAROLLBACKSHOTGUNCHARGE...unless they can do their insta-kill while staggered...

Krogan vanguards can't roll back.  Nor can they nova, actually.  Charging phantoms is a much more dangerous venture for someone without a dodge-roll.

Also, bronze lol.

On Silver and Gold: Charge-->WRRRAAAHAHA--->Shotgun blast. Still alive? Then charge again.

Only works on one at a a time, though.

Much safer just to blast them with a GPS.  Phantom against a GPS:  -Staggered, staggered, dead.-

Applies to any difficulty.

[NicLopez]

Insta kills are stupid, they dont really make it fun, and add a cheap challenge instead of a real one. Besides that they look horrible, ive seen people get pulled from a good meter or two away. Not fun, not cool, not smart. should be removed,or at least add some other way to escape other than biotic explosions.

[Sidney]

Frankly the OHK are what makes those foes challenging and increases your heartrate a bit when they are around. No issues with that. I would quibble with the problem of getting caught in the animations at times - I had a phantom "tractor beam" me from a good distance because the animation had started before my Asari popped away.

Heck on the Brutes what I hate it their death blow that if you are too close when they fall they'll wipe out your health and shields.

[illsteward]

 Since this thread seems pretty live, let me add my two cents as well...From the beginning of ME3, I loved Heavy Melee mechanic. I played SP as a Heavy Melee Vanguard, using the top Vanguard talent that cuts your Charge cooldown to half after Heavy Melee with combination of the Charge top ability that replenishes your shields after successful Charge.Now, I have unlocked the Batarian Soldier MP class. Immediately after seeing the talents, I maxed out the Blade Armor and his Training talent (Don't recall the name now), just to get the heaviest, most effective melee on the class.Since then, I have been frequently bringing down Banhsees, Brutes, Atlases and Phantoms in melee with ease. I can solo an Atlas or Phantom without bringing a gun into the fight. Took down my share of Banshees as well.Why the long start? Because I think instakills are fine. Yeah, so they can instakill any class. That's cool, but - they instakill only in Melee. If you don't feel like risking the kill, don't melee them or take a class or ability, that can handle it. Sure, the Banshee have a mighty pull, but that's just because it is ment to be a demon. Seriously, anyone who knows WHAT a Banshee is should not be surprised that they have Pull ability and instant kill.
I never got an instakill from Atlas or Brute. Sure, Brute can do a lot of damage if he gets you by his charge, so that MIGHT qualify as instakill.
As for the others, let me offer a lore explanation how they work (based on ME3 lore + common SciFi/Cyberpunk clichés):

Banshee Melee

The Banshee is an Ardat-Yakshi (Asarii) that have been fully devoured by her inner greed and craving for power. As said in the campaign, when Asarii found out that she is on the Ardat-Yakshi track, she can find safe harbour in a monastery, where other Yakshis help her deal with the gift.
Reapers accelerated the process, changing indoctrinated Ardat-Yakshi into warmongers of destruction. Since even a common Ardat-Yakshi kills everyone it mates with, the Banshees are ultimate killers. By using their biotic powers, they bring their victim to close quarters, then impale it and proceed with the mating. The invasive mating process accelerates neural degeneration in the subject's body, eventualy leading to permanent death due to lack of neural fucntions. Krogans are not excluded in this. Due to Banshee impaling it's victim, it can spawn obliteration on both of the Krogan's neural systems, allowing for no time for regeration.

[/i]Phantom Melee[i]

Ah yes, Phantoms... the most elusive Cerberus units. Genetically and technologicaly perfected girls (ever wondered why girls? Because they can be much more brutal and effective), wielding two weapons. One is implatned mass-acceleration gun, the other a monowire blade, capable of instant kills (at least I never got insakill from Phantom on ranged).
A monowire blade is a blade composed of one or two molecules. Since the Phantoms are clad in an armor, the blade fuctions basicaly as an extension of their cybernetic suits. I am not even sure if they are capable of ever leaving those suits, but due to their movements it seems not. Would that be the case, the actual blade might be one of their implants and since the Phantoms are biotics, it is only probable that it works as a sort of biotic empowerment.
But, I hear you say, the Phantoms never use biotic powers? Well, they do. They have one power. The power to instantly kill anything that they can gourge the blade to. How? Singularity.
What is Singularity, as an ability? It creates an object with huge mass difference, an object so massive that it brings everything else to it. Imagine that a Phantom sticks her sword inside of you and spawns a Singularity at the end of the sword. Now not only we understand why the sword is made of monowire (single molecules shatter much harder then compouds, at least due to gravity - breaking of Kai Leng's Phantom Sword was due to Spehard's Awesomness), we also understand why she kills only using her sword. Why the Krogans are included in this insta-kill as well? Lore reason is simple enough - the bigger they are, the harder they fall. Imagine a singularity - a point so massive that it distors the space around itself - spawning INSIDE your Krogan. Yeah, be glad that he can ever get up.


As for the "insta-kills being bad when the characters spawn before you and kills you on the beginning of the wave" - no. For Phantom, Brute, even for the Atlas, you always have some time to get away. Even if you lag seriously. And honestly, if you are so lagged that those seconds are far beyod your range, chances are you are not making a difference to the team anyway. Yes, I sometimes get THIS lagged. I quit. Even if it is Wave 10, I quit because the game becomes unplayable for me and I become burden for the team. If you do get yourself killed in the beginning of the wave (lonely sniper sniping from a spawn point maybe?) well, sucks to be you, but remember - on 25 minutes of average (for Gold or Silver, 12 for Bronze), you will get up in two to three minutes, tops. Meanwhile, you can watch your squadmates, elaborate on what will come AND you have informed them that an insta-kill enemy is on the loose. Yes, it can get boring, but it is no different from standing inside a Geth spawn point and gething bombed by a bunch of Rocket Troopers with a Prime or two. Unless you have medigel, that is.

Which brings me to one point - please, BW, do let Medigel restart you after instakill. The game would be easier and Vanguards wouldn't have to be on their guard so much in latter waves... Other than that, the instant kills are just fine to me.

Also, the Banshee kill is escapable. You just need to deal tremendous amount of damage, then she drops you. Granted, you need a teammate to do that, since you are being pulled (you are being screwed... Literaly), but I've been opened on Silver several times already, so it IS possible.

Modifié par illsteward, 13 avril 2012 - 12:16 .

[tonnactus]

Igipopp wrote...

I only find puzzling that my salarian engie (Derp his name), do well against cerb/geth but sucks against reapers. They seem to be ignoring the decoy. o_O

Which difficulty? It works at least an brutes when the decoy is nearer to them then your salarian of course.

[Brugdor]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

Nompire wrote...

This part still makes me sad. The rest is good info though, thanks!

Yeah, she was a bit of an experiment... on the whole internally I think we're a little split on the feeling of it. It does make her scary - but it can definitely feel cheap sometimes too (especially with lag on clients). :happy:

There are powers we have such as Reave that require shields to be down to work properly. Why not at least require that our shields be down for us to be insta-killed? And make the damage immunity you have upon being picked up also make you immune to insta-kills (I'm glaring at Phantoms as I say this)?

[appleyum]

tonnactus wrote...

Its actually funny that a girl with a sword could instantly kill a krogan vanguard on silver.(a banshee is at least a boss enemy, a phantom isnt) What is the point of playing a vanguard when someone could only charge cannon fodder? And against elite and boss enemies all other classes are better?

You can melee grab and instant kill Cereberus sniper and engineer.  I think we are even.

[Jayleia]

Trakarg wrote...

Jayleia wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Its actually funny that a girl with a sword could instantly kill a krogan vanguard on silver.(a banshee is at least a boss enemy, a phantom isnt) What is the point of playing a vanguard when someone could only charge cannon fodder? And against elite and boss enemies all other classes are better?

I play a Vanguard, at least on bronze.  On bronze nothing stops me from charging Phantoms CHARGENOVAROLLBACKSHOTGUN

On silver they may be harder

CHARGENOVAROLLBACKSHOTGUNCHARGE...unless they can do their insta-kill while staggered...

Krogan vanguards can't roll back.  Nor can they nova, actually.  Charging phantoms is a much more dangerous venture for someone without a dodge-roll.

Also, bronze lol.

Hey, I'm not elite like you, so there, I'm considering taking Aiko into Silver, now that I'm getting more comfortable with her.  And, also, there's a reason why I play human/asari Vanguards.

[Eire Icon]

BaKaNoOB wrote...

Gillityr The Original wrote...

No, I do not share that opinion. The melee instant kill is what makes those enemies scary, and require tactics.

This ^

Yep gotta agree with this - its why I keep my distance from these enemies

[Igipopp]

tonnactus wrote...

Igipopp wrote...

I only find puzzling that my salarian engie (Derp his name), do well against cerb/geth but sucks against reapers. They seem to be ignoring the decoy. o_O

Which difficulty? It works at least an brutes when the decoy is nearer to them then your salarian of course.

On silver and gold. On bronze I play a soldier or a low lvl char. 

[AsheraII]

tonnactus wrote...

Its actually funny that a girl with a sword could instantly kill a krogan vanguard on silver.(a banshee is at least a boss enemy, a phantom isnt) What is the point of playing a vanguard when someone could only charge cannon fodder? And against elite and boss enemies all other classes are better?

The Phantom is definitely a boss. She just doesn't have shield+armor or barrier+armor for protection like other bosses, but barrier+health. Still, that doesn't make her less of a boss. Just a different type of boss.

In case you never noticed, you'll run into Atlasses before you run into a Phantom. If you were to compare how they spawn, you'd find that the Atlas and the Brute are on a similar tier, and that the Phantom and the Banshee are on a similar tier as well. You'll encounter those pairs on similar waves and in comparable amounts.