266 réponses à ce sujet

[Sku1c]

Brutes have insta-kills?
I did not even know that .

This... i'm kinda curious now though, might poke one next time.

[tonnactus]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

Alternatively... you can look at the timings. The Banshee is the only one with a truly random sync kill - all the other enemies will only attempt a sync kill after a melee. So as a Vanguard (esp. as an Asari Vanguard), you can always charge with impunity... just make sure you roll away afterwards and wait a bit (3-5 seconds). If you practice it a bit, you can get the timing down.

Krogans cant roll and are slow...
But thanks for the answer.

Modifié par tonnactus, 12 avril 2012 - 07:20 .

[Machazareel]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

Nompire wrote...

This part still makes me sad. The rest is good info though, thanks!

Yeah, she was a bit of an experiment... on the whole internally I think we're a little split on the feeling of it. It does make her scary - but it can definitely feel cheap sometimes too (especially with lag on clients). :happy:

Or as a Krogan

[Delta 57 Dash]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

Alternatively... you can look at the timings. The Banshee is the only one with a truly random sync kill - all the other enemies will only attempt a sync kill after a melee. So as a Vanguard (esp. as an Asari Vanguard), you can always charge with impunity... just make sure you roll away afterwards and wait a bit (3-5 seconds). If you practice it a bit, you can get the timing down.

If you spamguard it... yes... you'll probably die. If you take a nuanced approach and are careful, you can charge the crap out of them just fine. :happy:

The only problem with the Banshee is it's tendency to drag you backwards into it.  As SOON as it gets within range for the attack, it can trigger the attack, which will kill you regardless of how much distance you've managed to run between her triggering the attack and actually starting the animation.  Which means if a banshee charges next to you and you jump down a ladder to run away, you will quite often get dragged BACK UP THE LADDER into the banshee's claws.

Also Brenon, Krogans can't roll.  Which means that the Krogan Vanguard is actually the vanguard that is the WORST at melee'ing the big, tough things.  Way to go, Design team!

Suggestion: Make the insta-kill only trigger if you are below a certain total health (hp + shields).  Like, 600, 1200, 1800 for bronze -> Silver -> Gold.  That would stop enemies that can do almost no damage to a Krogan suddenly being able to OHKO them for no reason. (espeically annoying on bronze when you charge an Atlas, heavy melee it, it swings back and does less than 1/4 your shields, you charge it, and then it picks you up and kills you.  WHAT.)

[Zerox Z21]

I understand entirely their presence, but it just feels executed poorly, especially from Phantoms. I cloaked behind one once, started a heavy melee attack while still cloaked, while it was facing away from me, then I was suddenly being stabbed. What the hell!? Screw that.

It also seems particularly unfair to vanguards as it overly nerfs the whole thing they're based around, charge. But removing the instakill would mean you could charge everything too easily. Really, those enemies should just have better close quarter reactions, that maybe knock you away and stumble, preventing you attacking, but the instant kill animation lock feels unfair to players (removing player control is always pretty unfair), as well as actually being unfair when there's lag issues. You also often get grabbed when in the middle of a heavy melee or something, which is also crap.

The Brute should just turn around and swing it's arm faster.
The Banshee could have a quicker charging version of the 'nova' effect it uses, like the asari heavy melee. Alternatively, it can also quickly turn and use a powerful throw.
Atlas' are fine, never noticed the instakill anyway, and you have plenty of leeway from behind. They're balanced by having rather alot of firepower coming forwards.
Phantoms...screw Phantoms. That gun is pretty OP as it is, especially in combination with an instakill possibility. They also are the fastest of these enemies and they deliberately run you down for the instakill, whereas the others only generally happen if you run into their face. This is partly the irritatingness of the Phantom. The other aspect is the fact it's small, and the sword doesn't particularly seem like a fair or good reason for an instakill, not when players have their damn own that can't even oneshot a normal grunt type enemy on higher difficulties. Illogical and stupid.

Those enemies should have responses to close quarters enemies, but forced, instant kill animations are not a good way to do it. They feel cheap, unfair when lag is the factor that it is, and also seems a cop out on implementing a fairer, better way. Also an unfair nerf against melee/cqc classes such as krogan, vanguards and batarians. You can't design and introduce classes like that, yet include unfair, overkill reactions to it from certain enemies.
They're just plain implemented badly, and could be improved on. Simple as.

[DiebytheSword]

I think the insta kills are cheap on Krogan because they are lore breaking, but on the other classes it makes sense to instill some fear.

[Brenon Holmes]

tonnactus wrote...

Krogans cant roll and are slow...

Yep, which means they have a disadvantage versus certain enemies. Which is offset (imo) to a certain degree 
by some of the perks of that particular kit (especially as you can one hit kill Phantoms with the right build (silver/bronze)) .

I haven't played around too much with the Krogan Battlemaster, but I just unlocked it last night... looking forward to playing around with it. I can't really comment too much on how safe it is to go charge happy with him just yet - but from what I've seen it seems more like his charge tends to be slower anyways, so the playstyle will probably have to be different. :happy:

[tzabaothg]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

Alternatively... you can look at the timings. The Banshee is the only one with a truly random sync kill - all the other enemies will only attempt a sync kill after a melee. So as a Vanguard (esp. as an Asari Vanguard), you can always charge with impunity... just make sure you roll away afterwards and wait a bit (3-5 seconds). If you practice it a bit, you can get the timing down.

If you spamguard it... yes... you'll probably die. If you take a nuanced approach and are careful, you can charge the crap out of them just fine. :happy:

Assuming there are no latency issues this is true. But who doesn't have latency issues?

I can't count the number of times I have charged a phantom, stunned her, then been instagibbed. I can see being dropped, but being out the rest of the round is completely ridiculous.

It really is a stupid mechanic, especially considering the prevalence of melee abilities/characters in the game. To add insult to injury half of the new characters in the last DLC beg to be specced for melee.

For the higher risk involved in landing melee (especially on Gold) the return should be greater than that of both biotic spam and sniping. Sadly this is not the case.

[Silicon891]

You can always break a phantoms sword and then charge in. Kind of hard to insta-kill without a sword.

I hate instakills, but as has been pointed out already, they make you think and force you to move. Almost every round I play with a vanguard, a phantom or banshee kills them. Is it that hard to turn and move?

[Link Ashland 614]

It adds a big challenge and a bit of fear, so it's not stupid.

It is stupid when you're 10 feet away from the enemy, and you're hauled to it for the kill.

[Adhin]

I'm fine with it as stated before they all only ever do it after specific points. The issue I find (more so with banshee) is she will often try to sync kill you halfway across a map. I've been dragged some absurd distances with out ever seeing the banshee before but usually it stops after a bit though once i've been phased through a wall to my death.

If they could add more checks ont he banshee but still keep her attempts random I'd be a lot happier.

As a guy who plays Krogans almost entirely on gold... I enjoy melee killing phantoms as I've stated on these forums a good amount of times. All about knowing when to hit em and when not to. Though 'sometimes' they'll sync kill you mid stumble on there end which is... awkward. You see your self dying while there stumbling back. Hell had it happen a few times as host so it's not just 'lag'. Though lag does make those issues a bit worse.

Modifié par Adhin, 12 avril 2012 - 07:39 .

[Biotic_Warlock]

Brute instakill?

[Biotic_Warlock]

tonnactus wrote...

Its actually funny that a girl with a sword could instantly kill a krogan vanguard on silver

Gender significant? <_<

[Xaijin]

Gillityr The Original wrote...

No, I do not share that opinion. The melee instant kill is what makes those enemies scary, and require tactics.

[Brenon Holmes]

Adhin wrote...

I'm fine with it as stated before they all only ever do it after specific points. The issue I find (more so with banshee) is she will often try to sync kill you halfway across a map. I've been dragged some absurd distances with out ever seeing the banshee before but usually it stops after a bit though once i've been phased through a door to my death.

If they could add more checks ont he banshee but still keep her attempts random I'd be a lot happier.

As a guy who plays Krogans almost entirely on gold... I enjoy melee killing phantoms as I've stated on these forums a good amount of times. All about knowing when to hit em and when not to. Though 'sometimes' they'll sync kill you mid stumble on there end which is... awkward. You see your self dying while there stumbling back. Hell had it happen a few times as host so it's not just 'lag'. Though lag does make those issues a bit worse.

So, theoretically... her sync range is 2.3 meters... I'll poke around in the code though and see if there's more stuff we can do to address the weird "synced from really far away" issues.

[screamin_jesus]

Nompire wrote...

Should instant kills be removed? No.

Is it frustrating when a Banshee teleports on top of you and IMMEDIATELY grabs you without you having even 1 second to roll away? Definitely.

Is it frustrating to get magnet grabbed from 10 meters away by a OHK mob when you're the host? Absolutely.

Should Vanguards be able to be one hit killed out of Biotic Charge + Nova which give them invincibility frames? IDK, I just don't biotic charge them if they are targeting me (unless they are mid-animation) and don't nova close enough for them to grab.

Instant kills need fixes/tweaks (as do many other parts of the MP), but they do not need removed. The game would be way easier than it already is if they removed them.

This. there is nothing wrong with the mechanic in itself, its just the buginess that ruins it and makes it infuraiting. Being grabbed as a vanguard right in the middle of the charge/nova animation is ridiculous. Being grabbed in the middle of the revive animation is ridiculous. Being grabbed from ridiculous distance by a banshee is ridiculous. If these things were fixed I'd have zero problem with the mechanic.

Brenon Holmes wrote...

Adhin wrote...

I'm fine with it as stated before they all only ever do it after specific points. The issue I find (more so with banshee) is she will often try to sync kill you halfway across a map. I've been dragged some absurd distances with out ever seeing the banshee before but usually it stops after a bit though once i've been phased through a door to my death.

If they could add more checks ont he banshee but still keep her attempts random I'd be a lot happier.

As a guy who plays Krogans almost entirely on gold... I enjoy melee killing phantoms as I've stated on these forums a good amount of times. All about knowing when to hit em and when not to. Though 'sometimes' they'll sync kill you mid stumble on there end which is... awkward. You see your self dying while there stumbling back. Hell had it happen a few times as host so it's not just 'lag'. Though lag does make those issues a bit worse.

So, theoretically... her sync range is 2.3 meters... I'll poke around in the code though and see if there's more stuff we can do to address the weird "synced from really far away" issues.

 

Yeah, I've definitely been grabbed from absurd distances by the banshee, even when the host doesn't seem particularly laggy. I will be pretty far away from the banshee, certainly not close enough to be worried about a grab, when suddenly my character begins sliding towards her from like 5-10 meters away and kill me.

Modifié par screamin_jesus, 12 avril 2012 - 07:45 .

[Gillityr The Original]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

Adhin wrote...

I'm fine with it as stated before they all only ever do it after specific points. The issue I find (more so with banshee) is she will often try to sync kill you halfway across a map. I've been dragged some absurd distances with out ever seeing the banshee before but usually it stops after a bit though once i've been phased through a door to my death.

If they could add more checks ont he banshee but still keep her attempts random I'd be a lot happier.

As a guy who plays Krogans almost entirely on gold... I enjoy melee killing phantoms as I've stated on these forums a good amount of times. All about knowing when to hit em and when not to. Though 'sometimes' they'll sync kill you mid stumble on there end which is... awkward. You see your self dying while there stumbling back. Hell had it happen a few times as host so it's not just 'lag'. Though lag does make those issues a bit worse.

So, theoretically... her sync range is 2.3 meters... I'll poke around in the code though and see if there's more stuff we can do to address the weird "synced from really far away" issues.

Having an actual dev with source code access/knowledge around here will be a huge help.  I cannot express how pleased I am to see this response.  Please, ignore the trolls.  There is a HUGE thread of compiled bugs (needs a little updating) but overall, it explains a lot of the community pain.  Again, thank you (from one coder to another).

[Rav950]

tonnactus wrote...

Its actually funny that a girl with a sword could instantly kill a krogan vanguard on silver.(a banshee is at least a boss enemy, a phantom isnt) What is the point of playing a vanguard when someone could only charge cannon fodder? And against elite and boss enemies all other classes are better?

I'm pretty sure that on the evil forum, all the Atlas/Prime/Banshee/Brutes are saying "WTF, I got dropped by a weenie with a twig?".

I've charged everything with Vanguards. Its timing and skill. I usually set up my charge as I see her going into an animation. Same deal for Krogans. I have had really frustrating instant-kills, but if the threat of them wasn't there I wouldn't feel as much adrenaline being in close combat. So no, I don't want to see this go.

Modifié par Rav950, 12 avril 2012 - 07:52 .

[Yajuu Omoi]

screamin_jesus wrote...

Nompire wrote...

Should instant kills be removed? No.

Is it frustrating when a Banshee teleports on top of you and IMMEDIATELY grabs you without you having even 1 second to roll away? Definitely.

Is it frustrating to get magnet grabbed from 10 meters away by a OHK mob when you're the host? Absolutely.

Should Vanguards be able to be one hit killed out of Biotic Charge + Nova which give them invincibility frames? IDK, I just don't biotic charge them if they are targeting me (unless they are mid-animation) and don't nova close enough for them to grab.

Instant kills need fixes/tweaks (as do many other parts of the MP), but they do not need removed. The game would be way easier than it already is if they removed them.

This. there is nothing wrong with the mechanic in itself, its just the buginess that ruins it and makes it infuraiting. Being grabbed as a vanguard right in the middle of the charge/nova animation is ridiculous. Being grabbed in the middle of the revive animation is ridiculous. Being grabbed from ridiculous distance by a banshee is ridiculous. If these things were fixed I'd have zero problem with the mechanic.

Brenon Holmes wrote...

Adhin wrote...

I'm fine with it as stated before they all only ever do it after specific points. The issue I find (more so with banshee) is she will often try to sync kill you halfway across a map. I've been dragged some absurd distances with out ever seeing the banshee before but usually it stops after a bit though once i've been phased through a door to my death.

If they could add more checks ont he banshee but still keep her attempts random I'd be a lot happier.

As a guy who plays Krogans almost entirely on gold... I enjoy melee killing phantoms as I've stated on these forums a good amount of times. All about knowing when to hit em and when not to. Though 'sometimes' they'll sync kill you mid stumble on there end which is... awkward. You see your self dying while there stumbling back. Hell had it happen a few times as host so it's not just 'lag'. Though lag does make those issues a bit worse.

So, theoretically... her sync range is 2.3 meters... I'll poke around in the code though and see if there's more stuff we can do to address the weird "synced from really far away" issues.

 

Yeah, I've definitely been grabbed from absurd distances by the banshee, even when the host doesn't seem particularly laggy. I will be pretty far away from the banshee, certainly not close enough to be worried about a grab, when suddenly my character begins sliding towards her from like 5-10 meters away and kill me.

^ This.

[tonnactus]

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Its actually funny that a girl with a sword could instantly kill a krogan vanguard on silver

Gender significant? <_<

No. Just to illustrate the point(read instead: puny human)

[cuzIMgood]

Nope it adds some difficulty and fear of certain enemies which is good. All classes just need some sort of dodge though.

[Rav950]

screamin_jesus wrote...

Yeah, I've definitely been grabbed from absurd distances by the banshee, even when the host doesn't seem particularly laggy. I will be pretty far away from the banshee, certainly not close enough to be worried about a grab, when suddenly my character begins sliding towards her from like 5-10 meters away and kill me.

This. Not nearly 10 for me, but I have had some slide kills. However, I would rather live with a very occasional slide-kill than lose the threat of being one-shotted.

[Yajuu Omoi]

Sku1c wrote...

Brutes have insta-kills?
I did not even know that .

This... i'm kinda curious now though, might poke one next time.

Yup, they grab you with their right claw/arm/thing and slam you into the ground...essentiall crushing the life out of you.

[Mx_CN3]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

So, theoretically... her sync range is 2.3 meters... I'll poke around in the code though and see if there's more stuff we can do to address the weird "synced from really far away" issues.

You're my hero.

[Yajuu Omoi]

I think the One shot kills are what make them dangerous, otherwise they'd just be stronger dead things. Bug agreed with the bugs...i've had banshees grab me through thin walls before...