192 réponses à ce sujet

[hussey 92]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

hussey 92 wrote...

John Epler wrote...

hussey 92 wrote...

John Epler wrote...

That would be because the DAO story was carried into DA2. And the DA2 story will carry into future projects.

I'd like to see this mystical quote that keeps being referenced where we say that DA2 is the greatest thing ever. It had flaws - we're proud of what we accomplished, but that's a far cry from 'IT'S PERFECT AND FLAWLESS AND A MASTERPIECE'.

The DAO story was just metioned in the backround, and I never quoted anyone

The DAO story progressed the world state (and, really, provided the impetus for Hawke's flight from Lothering). As did the DA2 story.

And when you suggest that we said something that we, in fact, never did - you're setting up a massive strawman. Strawmen don't really do much to help with a constructive and positive discussion environment. It's a disingenuous way of making your point stronger.

I never said Bioware "said" I said Bioware "thinks."  So I didn't suggest anyone said anything.  Please don't suggest I said something I in fact never did

You are not doing yourself any favors with either method as you do also not know what they think, especially if they have not said it.

no I don't know what they think, I'm just taking a guess from what ive heard them say over time.  I'm not trying to put words in anyones mouth

Modifié par hussey 92, 13 avril 2012 - 04:53 .

[brushyourteeth]

Ukki wrote...

Funny thing how people complain how in real life we would not be able to tell our companions what to wear. However, In real life I would not take a woman wearing high boots, boob shirt and no pants, wielding two tiny daggers with me to a fight against armoured men.

Um, when I pointed out the non-realism of telling your party members what to wear, I qualified that statement by mentioning that I understand that Dragon Age isn't real life.

So...
1.) I wasn't complaining about anything, and
2.) Your burn isn't really a good burn because I said the same thing myself.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 13 avril 2012 - 04:57 .

[Uccio]

TommyServo wrote...

Personally, as someone who has been here since the BG days, I think the stuff Bioware does now is better. I liked CRPGs and tactical RPGs a lot when I was younger, but I no longer have the patience for them. I'm done micromanaging tactics and inventory and honestly, I could do without pumping numbers into strength/cunning/whatever. I'd rather choose my skills and go. I think DAO, and DA2 even moreso, are absolutely fine with regards to gameplay.

Also as someone who has been playing rpg´s since the dawn of time I still love to do it the old fashioned way (oh BG, those were the days). The very least DAO style, but thats just me.

[Maria Caliban]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Bioware makes party based RPG's yes? You sound like your preference is far removed from the task of managing a full party. There are very few developers that make AAA party based RPG's. Advocating they move away from that with all the cookie cutter alternatives out there seems a disservice imo.

And this bothers you?

[Uccio]

BYT, didn´t direct that exactly towards you even it might seem so. I read your post and merely thought about the issue on whole.

ps. english is not my mother tongue so at times in have a tendency to come out differently than I meant. You´re welcome.

Modifié par Ukki, 13 avril 2012 - 05:11 .

[brushyourteeth]

Ukki wrote...

BYT, didn´t direct that exactly towards you even it might seem so. I read your post and merely thought about the issue on whole.

Aw, then thank you.

[FKA_Servo]

Ukki wrote...

Also as someone who has been playing rpg´s since the dawn of time I still love to do it the old fashioned way (oh BG, those were the days). The very least DAO style, but thats just me.

Ukki wrote...

BYT, didn´t direct that exactly towards you
even it might seem so. I read your post and merely thought about the
issue on whole.

Nothing wrong with that. If they make it more Baldur's Gatey, I won't be mad. It will make aspects of the game more tedious, in my opinion. Likewise, if they remove inventory (hell, even entirely) I won't miss it, either. 

If they went back to a silent PC, I'd be annoyed though. Thankfully, I don't think that's in the cards.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Maria Caliban wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Bioware makes party based RPG's yes? You sound like your preference is far removed from the task of managing a full party. There are very few developers that make AAA party based RPG's. Advocating they move away from that with all the cookie cutter alternatives out there seems a disservice imo.

And this bothers you?

Your preferences themselves don't bother me no. I'm just curious that you spend so much time and effort at it when it seems the type of games Bioware has generally made throughout their existance don't seem to share the characteristics with the type of game you would even want in the first place.

Edit: It would be like me going to Ubisoft's Assasin's Creed forums and repeatedly telling them they should make the next AC party based , turn based combat, and a full inventory system.

Modifié par CoS Sarah Jinstar, 13 avril 2012 - 05:07 .

[Xewaka]

Ukki wrote...
Funny thing how people complain how in real life we would not be able to tell our companions what to wear. However, In real life I would not take a woman wearing high boots, boob shirt and no pants, wielding two tiny daggers with me to a fight against armoured men. Also in real life people dressed like that would get killed really soon when the opposite site wears full body armor with shield and a sword.

To this day, Samara, Miranda, Jack, Thane and Jacob have never left the Normandy SR2 (save for their Loyalty missions); and Isabela and Fenris never went adventuring with Hawke (save when they decided to invite themselves unnanounced). If people is not adequately geared for the task at hand, they will not participate.

Modifié par Xewaka, 13 avril 2012 - 05:08 .

[brushyourteeth]

hussey 92 wrote...

slashthedragon wrote...

Just pretend your companions are all really poor so you have to buy their armor and if you want hot pink armor for them, then the companions have to suck it up and wear it.

And thats how you roleplay^

Xewaka wrote...

Ukki wrote...
Funny thing how people complain how in real life we would not be able to tell our companions what to wear. However, In real life I would not take a woman wearing high boots, boob shirt and no pants, wielding two tiny daggers with me to a fight against armoured men. Also in real life people dressed like that would get killed really soon when the opposite site wears full body armor with shield and a sword.

To this day, Samara, Miranda, Jack, Thane and Jacob have never left the Normandy SR2 (save for their Loyalty missions); and Isabela and Fenris never went adventuring with Hawke (save when they decided to invite themselves unnanounced). If people is not adequately geared for the task at hand, they will not participate.

 And that's how you roleplay^

[Pasquale1234]

TommyServo wrote...

If they went back to a silent PC, I'd be annoyed though. Thankfully, I don't think that's in the cards.

I'm just the opposite.  I can't play a role if a VA and animated toon are already doing it for me.

Different strokes, eh?

[Sad Dragon]

Xewaka wrote...

Ukki wrote...
Funny thing how people complain how in real life we would not be able to tell our companions what to wear. However, In real life I would not take a woman wearing high boots, boob shirt and no pants, wielding two tiny daggers with me to a fight against armoured men. Also in real life people dressed like that would get killed really soon when the opposite site wears full body armor with shield and a sword.

To this day, Samara, Miranda, Jack, Thane and Jacob have never left the Normandy SR2 (save for their Loyalty missions); and Isabela and Fenris never went adventuring with Hawke (save when they decided to invite themselves unnanounced). If people is not adequately geared for the task at hand, they will not participate.

Funny how that works really. I mean sure, armor has its upsides; it helps against blunt force attacks, slashing and piercing damage too -- if the hit connects. I wouldnt want to be stuck in a full suite of armor fighting a mage though -- sure the armor might, and just might, soften the blow but I sure as hell would have a harder time dodging the fireball. And as an assassin, do i really want a noisy armor? My preferred tactic is not a frontal assault after all. There are actually also downsides to armor as well as the upsides.

-TSD

[FKA_Servo]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

I'm just the opposite.  I can't play a role if a VA and animated toon are already doing it for me.

Different strokes, eh?

For sure.

I still like roleplaying, and I do it in TES games more than anything. But with Bioware games, I just want to be told a great story (albeit one that I can exert some control over), with great characters, in a great setting. That's something that t they've delivered consistently, and I feel that aspect of their games is stronger now than ever.

Modifié par TommyServo, 13 avril 2012 - 05:22 .

[Uccio]

^^ I´m pretty sure you would still prefer leather armor over no pants. Unless your tactics involve distracting the mage while kicking high.

Modifié par Ukki, 13 avril 2012 - 05:25 .

[hussey 92]

Sad Dragon wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

Ukki wrote...
Funny thing how people complain how in real life we would not be able to tell our companions what to wear. However, In real life I would not take a woman wearing high boots, boob shirt and no pants, wielding two tiny daggers with me to a fight against armoured men. Also in real life people dressed like that would get killed really soon when the opposite site wears full body armor with shield and a sword.

To this day, Samara, Miranda, Jack, Thane and Jacob have never left the Normandy SR2 (save for their Loyalty missions); and Isabela and Fenris never went adventuring with Hawke (save when they decided to invite themselves unnanounced). If people is not adequately geared for the task at hand, they will not participate.

Funny how that works really. I mean sure, armor has its upsides; it helps against blunt force attacks, slashing and piercing damage too -- if the hit connects. I wouldnt want to be stuck in a full suite of armor fighting a mage though -- sure the armor might, and just might, soften the blow but I sure as hell would have a harder time dodging the fireball. And as an assassin, do i really want a noisy armor? My preferred tactic is not a frontal assault after all. There are actually also downsides to armor as well as the upsides.

-TSD

It's not like the only options are massive heavy noisy armor or casual cloths

[Maria Caliban]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Your preferences themselves don't bother me no. I'm just curious that you spend so much time and effort at it when it seems the type of games Bioware has generally made throughout their existance don't seem to share the characteristics with the type of game you would even want in the first place.

You've spent the last year and a half talking about how Dragon Age II sucks and BioWare/EA have sold out to the 'konsole kiddie' crowd. But I'm the one who's spending a great deal of time and effort on something she dislikes?

We've had this conversation previously. I've spent several hours attempting to explain to you what I want out of an RPG and how I approach games. If you can't be bothered to remember them, I can't be bothered to repeat myself.

[keesio74]

Rawgrim wrote...

If you make a party based rpg, there shouldn`t even be a question about being able to customize your group. That should be a given.

I always thought of Dragon Age as more of a single player RPG where you role-play the main character (warden or hawke) and have companions that join you. Hence I expect some independence from the companions. I always think of a real party based rpg as where you control a party equally. Like those old RPGs like Bard's Tale, Might and Magic, Pool or Radiance where you create a party and you basically control all party members equally and are not one particular player member.

I gues one exception is the Ultima series where you are meant to be the Avatar but you have complete control of your party member (at least up to Ultima 5 - I didn't play any of the later series).

Anyway going back to the main topic - I don't mind the DA2 enforcement of companion wardrode. They wanted a certain look for the companions. It's something I did instinctively in DA:O (for example Morrigan only every wore her default robes and than later her robes of possession, even if I found better robes).

[Frankaidenryan]

So, let's imagine, for the sake of argument, we're in DA2 and companion armour was customizable like it was in Origins. So my party exists of, say, Rogue Hawke, Varric, Isabella, and Fenris. Naturally, I look for the best sets of armor. My Rogue Hawke wears the Felon's Coat, Isabella wears Shadow of the Empire, and Varric wears Wade's Superior Drakeskin leather armor. I equip Fenris with Juggernaut plate. Humor me, just...picture it.

Now, is that really what you would have wanted your party to look like?

What Bioware announced at PAX feels like an INCREDIBLY elegant middle road between DAO and DA2 and if they managed to pull that off like the presentation made it out, I applaud them.

[FKA_Servo]

Frankaidenryan wrote...

So, let's imagine, for the sake of argument, we're in DA2 and companion armour was customizable like it was in Origins. So my party exists of, say, Rogue Hawke, Varric, Isabella, and Fenris. Naturally, I look for the best sets of armor. My Rogue Hawke wears the Felon's Coat, Isabella wears Shadow of the Empire, and Varric wears Wade's Superior Drakeskin leather armor. I equip Fenris with Juggernaut plate. Humor me, just...picture it.

Now, is that really what you would have wanted your party to look like?

What Bioware announced at PAX feels like an INCREDIBLY elegant middle road between DAO and DA2 and if they managed to pull that off like the presentation made it out, I applaud them.

Also, a whole lot of this.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Maria Caliban wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Your preferences themselves don't bother me no. I'm just curious that you spend so much time and effort at it when it seems the type of games Bioware has generally made throughout their existance don't seem to share the characteristics with the type of game you would even want in the first place.

You've spent the last year and a half talking about how Dragon Age II sucks and BioWare/EA have sold out to the 'konsole kiddie' crowd. But I'm the one who's spending a great deal of time and effort on something she dislikes?

We've had this conversation previously. I've spent several hours attempting to explain to you what I want out of an RPG and how I approach games. If you can't be bothered to remember them, I can't be bothered to repeat myself.

Yes we have and your preferences with the exception of a rushed DAII tend not to fall in the type of game Bioware creates. It's why I have such a hard time with the folks who rally behind voice overs and cinematics and encourage Bioware to further dumb down their RPG's and somehow think that is progress. 

Party customization? Oh we can't have that, I can't relate to a character that doesn't look the same for a 40 hour playthrough! Player agency? Choice isn't important! Just give me some witty paraphrased one liners to choose from its more enjoyable!  Inventory? "if I wanted to play in excell I'd open word"

One of the few remaining developers who made some what choice based CRPG's is slowly turning into another me too streamlined console dev. And it does annoy the hell out of me that there's those who call themselves long time Boware fans that are saying it's a good thing.

[hussey 92]

keesio74 wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

If you make a party based rpg, there shouldn`t even be a question about being able to customize your group. That should be a given.

I always thought of Dragon Age as more of a single player RPG where you role-play the main character (warden or hawke) and have companions that join you. Hence I expect some independence from the companions. I always think of a real party based rpg as where you control a party equally. Like those old RPGs like Bard's Tale, Might and Magic, Pool or Radiance where you create a party and you basically control all party members equally and are not one particular player member.

I gues one exception is the Ultima series where you are meant to be the Avatar but you have complete control of your party member (at least up to Ultima 5 - I didn't play any of the later series).

Anyway going back to the main topic - I don't mind the DA2 enforcement of companion wardrode. They wanted a certain look for the companions. It's something I did instinctively in DA:O (for example Morrigan only every wore her default robes and than later her robes of possession, even if I found better robes).

I normally did the same thing with Morrigan, but with characters like Alistar, Sten and Leliana there were so many good armour combinations for them.  (you could also do things like give Wynne the First Enchanter robes, which looked exactly like hers but green.  That kept her Ioinic look)

I just don't see the good in having less options to custimize your companions.  The control over your companions is what set Origins apart from other games like Mass Effect.  So why make it more like those other games

[hussey 92]

Frankaidenryan wrote...

So, let's imagine, for the sake of argument, we're in DA2 and companion armour was customizable like it was in Origins. So my party exists of, say, Rogue Hawke, Varric, Isabella, and Fenris. Naturally, I look for the best sets of armor. My Rogue Hawke wears the Felon's Coat, Isabella wears Shadow of the Empire, and Varric wears Wade's Superior Drakeskin leather armor. I equip Fenris with Juggernaut plate. Humor me, just...picture it.

Now, is that really what you would have wanted your party to look like?

What Bioware announced at PAX feels like an INCREDIBLY elegant middle road between DAO and DA2 and if they managed to pull that off like the presentation made it out, I applaud them.

One of the problems with DA2 was that they made characters like they did in ME so the armour custimaztion doesnt work well with them

Modifié par hussey 92, 13 avril 2012 - 05:56 .

[Maria Caliban]

Frankaidenryan wrote...

What Bioware announced at PAX feels like an INCREDIBLY elegant middle road between DAO and DA2 and if they managed to pull that off like the presentation made it out, I applaud them.

I hope it works out.

[hussey 92]

Cryocore wrote...

John Epler wrote...
It had flaws - we're proud of what we accomplished, but that's a far cry from 'IT'S PERFECT AND FLAWLESS AND A MASTERPIECE'.

and what did you accomplish? You made a demonstrably inferior game (Sales, critical receptions, fan reception).
You alienated a vast number of long time fans, and STILL fail to own up to the fact that its a worse game made for non core fans.
I fully expect biowEAr to slip in to the mire of the various formerly brilliant developers that were homogonised and bean counted in to failure and eventual closure.
BioWare was the greatest developer in the RPG space for a long time imo. This new entity is just another develop by numbers studio being run in to the ground by a controlling interest that has no interest in anything more than mass appeal and sale figures.

DAII is a comparitively awful game compared to EVERY RPG previously made by BioWare.

So what exactly did you accomplish with DA2?

imo everybody involved in making DA2 should apologise to the lon time fans as you obviously have no interest in making rich and deep RPGs anymore. Pandering to non RPG gamers and sacrificing core RPG mechanics is no accomplishment. 

Rather than blindly defending it maybe, just maybe somebody should just admit the faults and stop deflecting. If you really are interested in regaining lost trust... try some actual honesty. 

BiowEAr, thats classic:D.
It does feel like their trying to make smaller RPG's now, that they think will get more playthroughs (but won't).