486 réponses à ce sujet

[sfam]

tomcplotts wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Not doing what you want us to do, and not agreeing with our decisions, does not mean we have stopped listening. It is possible to completely disagree with you while still taking your feedback into account.

at the risk of getting banned, this is completely disingenuous stanley. this means one of two things: either you're not listening and you're not being truthful here, OR you are listening as you say but apparently you feel that your patrons/consumers/subjects are just completely retarded and have nothing of value to add. So you can choose oblivious, contemptuous, patronizing, imperial or, probably the best of these, indifferent.

Probably not the best argument to insert yourself into.

No, I think Stanley is very truthfully giving us the Mr. Spock option: "He is either unable or unwilling to respond."  Its probably a fair point to say he doesn't have lots of flexibility in the matter.  I empathize with this, but would really like a way to have a constructive dialogue with them. [/diplomat power off]

[ShepGep]

Velocithon wrote...

Bioware: "Hey we're gonna put this, this, this, this, and even THIS into the game IT'LL BE GREAT!!!"

Fans: " OMG this is going to be so cool they're doing everything we want!!!"

*game is released*

Fans: "...dafuq nothing you said was in here..."

Bioware: "We didn't know there was such a demand for it"

Fans:

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Zuka999]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Not doing what you want us to do, and not agreeing with our decisions, does not mean we have stopped listening. It is possible to completely disagree with you while still taking your feedback into account.

You can disagree with us in most cases. When it comes to a colossal failure like what we were given at the end of Mass Effect 3 - something which is literally eroding your fanbase right beneath you - you can't afford to disagree with us. We're not just "fans", we're customers. Who have spent money on a product that was made in the pursuit of profits. People want something different, but it sounds like we're going to be given the same thing with more polish.

We'll see how it plays out. I hope the guys up in the Mass Effect 3 development team know what this DLC means for the future of BioWare... defend the "artistic integrity" of Mac Walters and Casey Hudson all you guys want, because it might end up being the only thing you have left.

[Spectre Impersonator]

Byronic-Knight wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Velocithon wrote...

Bioware: "Hey we're gonna put this, this, this, this, and even THIS into the game IT'LL BE GREAT!!!"

Fans: " OMG this is going to be so cool they're doing everything we want!!!"

*game is released*

Fans: "...dafuq nothing you said was in here..."

Bioware: "We didn't know there was such a demand for it"

Fans:

This is literally the perfect way to explain it. 

Pretty much^ It really isn't that complicated. Bioware didn't deliver the product promised by some of their devs including the project lead. At the very least they could explain why with a direct answer instead of a deflection about "artistic vision" that has nothing to do with the very simple question: "Why were promises not kept?"

[Cyne]

It's possible to listen to someone without agreeing with their opinion, but bioware are not even explaining WHY they disagree, what is RIGHT about the ending the way it is, etc.

That's the real problem, not the lack of agreement, but the lack of an explanation behind it. What does that say? Either they do not respect us enough to offer that information, or their hands are tied, or (worse case) they themselves have no legit arguments to offer in favor of the ending, that the ending really does suck and they won't simply come out and admit it.

[crappyjazzy]

Sesshaku wrote...


But you guys are doing it wrong. It's not against us that you need to be defensive. We are your clients for spacebrat sake. We loved Mass Effect 1 and 2, and Mass Effect 3 wasn't terrible....but it had a terrible ending.

We don't want YOU to say anything like that. We want BIOWARE as a whole, say: "Okay guys, it's clear that we missed the target, we are not going to change the canon ending, but we are going to explain why we think the ending was great, why the plotholes aren't plotholes, and we are seriously considering making a DLC with new endings based on your feedback". I would pay 10 usd to see new and more coherent endings,  im not your enemy, im a dissatisfied client. and the shields your commpany is raising it's not helping you, its hurting you. We want the exact opposite. We want to talk. But real talk. 

For example.

Why you guys though this ending was right? What's the explanation to that? What are your interpretations that could answer the plotholes? What are your plans to future Mass Effect games? Perhaps that would help to understand the move. 

But if you say things like "we didn't knew there was such a demand", or "artistic integrity", etc. Then you'll make angry the wrong people, your clients.

Because each interview about ME3 prior to release was about EXACTLY what we wanted. What happened in the middle? How did a clear statement about diverse endings ended up on a A1,A2 and A3 ending?.

And yes, in the process some people are going to be as#~hole, but that happens all the times, they're not the problem, the problem is that most of your fans completly disagree with the ending. Wich means that something went wrong, because on ME1 and 2 we were confident on your "artistic vision", and then, somehow, that artistic vision changed on the last 10 minutes and left us with a terrible feeling of wtf happened.

I really want to understand this.  They are making DLC, but you want them to tell you what's going to be in it before it's released?

[Sesshaku]

Cyne wrote...

It's possible to listen to someone without agreeing with their opinion, but bioware are not even explaining WHY they disagree, what is RIGHT about the ending the way it is, etc.

That's the real problem, not the lack of agreement, but the lack of an explanation behind it. What does that say? Either they do not respect us enough to offer that information, or their hands are tied, or (worse case) they themselves have no legit arguments to offer in favor of the ending, that the ending really does suck and they won't simply come out and admit it.

As I said on my previous post, i think at least a plausible explanation would be good...something that makes us think: "Ohh, so they did this because of that, and because next year they're going to do that". But they don't. And I can't think any explanation that would make me happy about the poor writing.

[Eyeshield21]

Stanley Woo wrote...

sdfgdsfsdfsfs wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Not doing what you want us to do, and not agreeing with our decisions, does not mean we have stopped listening. It is possible to completely disagree with you while still taking your feedback into account.

It's possible to disagree, but a lot of the "issues" people raised with the ending are extremely legitimate, and to say that you "completely disagree" with those legitimate points is... troubling, to say the least.

And having a difference of opinion has absolutely no effect on the "legitimacy" of those issues. If you dislike X in a game, my saying "I disagree with you" has no effect on your opinion. It has no effect on BioWare already choosing to create clarification DLC. It doesn't make me right, it doesn't make you wrong. The only reason people want BioWare to (or me) to agree is to give you more ammunition to say "see? even Stanley Woo agrees with this!" or "even BioWare agrees. this proves we are right!" which does nothing except, well, make you feel better about being right.

But I'm not going to provide answers that will only be used to be either wielded as a weapon or given as proof that we hate you, because neither is conducive to productive discussion.

Once again, I have to ask: Did the entire ME team support the endings? Cause I'm pretty sure some didn't like the endings or felt uneasy about it.

[ahandsomeshark]

Cyne wrote...

It's possible to listen to someone without agreeing with their opinion, but bioware are not even explaining WHY they disagree, what is RIGHT about the ending the way it is, etc.

That's the real problem, not the lack of agreement, but the lack of an explanation behind it. What does that say? Either they do not respect us enough to offer that information, or their hands are tied, or (worse case) they themselves have no legit arguments to offer in favor of the ending, that the ending really does suck and they won't simply come out and admit it.

this also. THOUGH, they did give us lots of speculation for everyone as an explanation and that hasn't worked out so well for them.

[Kath]

ShepardTheHopeful wrote...

I'm only asking for information to counteract the hypocracy.

You state we're listening but you didn't know we were displeased with the ending and didn't know we would be. That's hypocritical. 

You state the ending will not change and you want to keep artistic integrity but you give no information about the whole teams involvement, as well as the fact that you're technically changing the ending by adding more to it and "clarifying it" that's a hypocricy. 

You created a character who was die hard and refused to bow down to anyone. Yet he folds rather quickly to a child AI. That's a hypocricy. 

You claim you care about answering questions so that we may not use comments against you or fight you. Yet we are given nothing but vague tweets and comments making us thing those very things. That's hypocricy. 

.....tons of fans feel that we'd be happier if you'd just talk to us like human beings instead of leaving us to theorize and troll on a forum. If you could talk to one decent normal human being for a quick interview tell us some thoughts of the staff be honest with us instead of leaving us to speculate that EA rushed you, or Hudson and Mac were being egotistical and ignoring the staff. We'd like explinations to the hypocritical situations we keep hearing from your company and your pr departments. And the entire thing at PAX was even more vague and confusing let alone a little insulting to the point that some would believe it's not even a real audience in there but rather plants to act like a 90s sitcom reel. 

We want to stop speculating, we want to believe you, and we want to have some faith to go on. But you keep stretching us so thin how can we possibly believe or respect you after all this. Especially if the extended ending turns out to be..yet another hypocricy? 

Are we so unworthy of some answers to these questions? 

I don't think that word means what you think it means, though you got it right one time. Hypocrisy does not mean the same thing as dishonesty or ambiguity.

Definition of HYPOCRISY
1: a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not; especially : the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion

Modifié par Katherine, 13 avril 2012 - 01:18 .

[Spectre Impersonator]

tomcplotts wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Not doing what you want us to do, and not agreeing with our decisions, does not mean we have stopped listening. It is possible to completely disagree with you while still taking your feedback into account.

at the risk of getting banned, this is completely disingenuous stanley. this means one of two things: either you're not listening and you're not being truthful here, OR you are listening as you say but apparently you feel that your patrons/consumers/subjects are just completely retarded and have nothing of value to add. So you can choose oblivious, contemptuous, patronizing, imperial or, probably the best of these, indifferent.

Probably not the best argument to insert yourself into.

I'm thinking it's just this. The head guys just assume they're so much smarter and that what they've come up with is brilliant and shouldn't be changed no matter how many people hate it. Strange, considering all that talk from Casey about how the fans were "co-writers" in this series. I guess we are only when it doesn't interfere with some mystical vision that I still haven't heard explained.

[robertm2]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Not doing what you want us to do, and not agreeing with our decisions, does not mean we have stopped listening. It is possible to completely disagree with you while still taking your feedback into account.

if i tell bioware to make their next game a my little pony rts game and they dont listen does that mean they didnt hear me? its their company and they have the right to do whatever they want just like everyone has the right not to but the games they make. they are listening but they shouldnt have to change their whole games ending just because people want them to. that would lead to unhappy developers and thus bad games. if you make a game and people dont like it then demand you change are you going to feel insulted? i would guess yes. demand everything you want not everyones dreams come true. and thank you stanley for speaking your mind thats all alot of people want even though many will rage about it.

[sfam]

crappyjazzy wrote...

I really want to understand this.  They are making DLC, but you want them to tell you what's going to be in it before it's released?

Two issues

1. If we take Bioware at their word, nothing is changing in the DLC, just merely better explanations.  There will still be a bizarre synthesis ending, the awesome Geth-Quarian story will still be rendered meaningless if you want to kill the Reapers, etc.  This leaves all the WTF issues we have about why the underlying narrative shifts in the last 5 minutes.  So yeah, we would still want to know why the inclusion of a star child Deus Ex Machina character with no forwarning, etc. I could go on, but you get the idea.  I'm sure Bioware could answer these questions at a high level if they wanted and smooth some of the anger without giving up everything in the DLC.

2. Again, there is a gap between what was promised and what was delivered regarding the ending - one where the "we had no idea you wanted to know what happened to all those people you brought and saved" just doesn't make sense - literally every piece of marketing from Bioware stated exactly what we wanted.  People would like an explanation as to why, even if these will be fixed in the DLC. Even if the explanation is, "Gosh, we screwed up. We ran out of time and money, and had to finalize it in the way we did, but honestly didn't realize how bad it really came across until it was too late..."  If it was contrite, that would be fine for many of us. 


EDIT: Regarding point 2, as strange as it may be, if there was an explanation that showed why the endings provided actually met the marketing, and that they were all genuinely shocked by fan reaction, that would really be good to understand too. Like, right now, that's impossible for us to imagine, but I'd be willing to listen.

Modifié par sfam, 13 avril 2012 - 01:27 .

[Muhkida]

Eyeshield21 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

sdfgdsfsdfsfs wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Not doing what you want us to do, and not agreeing with our decisions, does not mean we have stopped listening. It is possible to completely disagree with you while still taking your feedback into account.

It's possible to disagree, but a lot of the "issues" people raised with the ending are extremely legitimate, and to say that you "completely disagree" with those legitimate points is... troubling, to say the least.

And having a difference of opinion has absolutely no effect on the "legitimacy" of those issues. If you dislike X in a game, my saying "I disagree with you" has no effect on your opinion. It has no effect on BioWare already choosing to create clarification DLC. It doesn't make me right, it doesn't make you wrong. The only reason people want BioWare to (or me) to agree is to give you more ammunition to say "see? even Stanley Woo agrees with this!" or "even BioWare agrees. this proves we are right!" which does nothing except, well, make you feel better about being right.

But I'm not going to provide answers that will only be used to be either wielded as a weapon or given as proof that we hate you, because neither is conducive to productive discussion.

Once again, I have to ask: Did the entire ME team support the endings? Cause I'm pretty sure some didn't like the endings or felt uneasy about it.

You really expect anyone in Bioware to answer that?  Whether they all agreed with the ending or not is still going to be a lose/lose answer.  Fans are still going to be angry or they'll just use the "internal turmoil" that the ME team is supposedly having as more fuel for the fire.... or ammunition.

Edit : Heck that's not even a smart business practice.

Modifié par Muhkida, 13 avril 2012 - 01:25 .

[bloodstone2007]

Stanley Woo wrote...

sdfgdsfsdfsfs wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Not doing what you want us to do, and not agreeing with our decisions, does not mean we have stopped listening. It is possible to completely disagree with you while still taking your feedback into account.

It's possible to disagree, but a lot of the "issues" people raised with the ending are extremely legitimate, and to say that you "completely disagree" with those legitimate points is... troubling, to say the least.

And having a difference of opinion has absolutely no effect on the "legitimacy" of those issues. If you dislike X in a game, my saying "I disagree with you" has no effect on your opinion. It has no effect on BioWare already choosing to create clarification DLC. It doesn't make me right, it doesn't make you wrong. The only reason people want BioWare to (or me) to agree is to give you more ammunition to say "see? even Stanley Woo agrees with this!" or "even BioWare agrees. this proves we are right!" which does nothing except, well, make you feel better about being right.

But I'm not going to provide answers that will only be used to be either wielded as a weapon or given as proof that we hate you, because neither is conducive to productive discussion.

I don't think Bioware hates the fans, I also don't feel that the fans hate Bioware. Are the funs upset, yes some are. I don't even think that if falls into the right or wrong catagory. I believe and the rest of the fans out there can agree or disagree, that the issue we know Bioware is capable of giving us a better ending set, that what we got.
Now that being said, there may be mitigating issues that do not allow bioware to do so. I also understand the reluctance to come out and say "hey sorry we didn't really think this through".
The extended cut is a compramize so that Bioware doesn't loose face, and can come out with the endings the fans expect. Your not going to make everyone happy, theres nothing right or wrong about it, thats just life.
       I think most of the community is going to give bioware a chance, to fix the issue(s) they see as a failure on Biowars part to live up to the expectations that the fans, had as a game company.  So my suggestion to Bioware is wow    us again, make the ending match the tone and vision of the rest of the Mass Effect  games. Its a tall order, can it be done? I think thats what the fans are asking themselves right now, and asking of Bioware.

[Lavans6879]

It's not even about BioWare's lack of care over the interest of their fanbase, it's the fact that they made a promise that they failed to keep.

They promised us a story that will have a dynamic ending based off the decisions made by the player in the first two installments. This promise, mind you, was being made over the course of various years prior to the release of Mass Effect 3. They did not deliver. Instead, they give us A), , or C), all of which are identical with piles of nonsensical logic.

BioWare set the expectation, which they failed to deliver. Instead, they give what a lot of us consider to be a steaming heap, spit in our faces with the Extended Cut DLC, and expect us to not be pissed?

Modifié par Lavans6879, 13 avril 2012 - 01:28 .

[Spectre Impersonator]

Sesshaku wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

sdfgdsfsdfsfs wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Not doing what you want us to do, and not agreeing with our decisions, does not mean we have stopped listening. It is possible to completely disagree with you while still taking your feedback into account.

It's possible to disagree, but a lot of the "issues" people raised with the ending are extremely legitimate, and to say that you "completely disagree" with those legitimate points is... troubling, to say the least.

And having a difference of opinion has absolutely no effect on the "legitimacy" of those issues. If you dislike X in a game, my saying "I disagree with you" has no effect on your opinion. It has no effect on BioWare already choosing to create clarification DLC. It doesn't make me right, it doesn't make you wrong. The only reason people want BioWare to (or me) to agree is to give you more ammunition to say "see? even Stanley Woo agrees with this!" or "even BioWare agrees. this proves we are right!" which does nothing except, well, make you feel better about being right.

But I'm not going to provide answers that will only be used to be either wielded as a weapon or given as proof that we hate you, because neither is conducive to productive discussion.

But you guys are doing it wrong. It's not against us that you need to be defensive. We are your clients for spacebrat sake. We loved Mass Effect 1 and 2, and Mass Effect 3 wasn't terrible....but it had a terrible ending.

We don't want YOU to say anything like that. We want BIOWARE as a whole, say: "Okay guys, it's clear that we missed the target, we are not going to change the canon ending, but we are going to explain why we think the ending was great, why the plotholes aren't plotholes, and we are seriously considering making a DLC with new endings based on your feedback". I would pay 10 usd to see new and more coherent endings,  im not your enemy, im a dissatisfied client. and the shields your commpany is raising it's not helping you, its hurting you. We want the exact opposite. We want to talk. But real talk. 

For example.

Why you guys though this ending was right? What's the explanation to that? What are your interpretations that could answer the plotholes? What are your plans to future Mass Effect games? Perhaps that would help to understand the move. 

But if you say things like "we didn't knew there was such a demand", or "artistic integrity", etc. Then you'll make angry the wrong people, your clients.

Because each interview about ME3 prior to release was about EXACTLY what we wanted. What happened in the middle? How did a clear statement about diverse endings ended up on a A1,A2 and A3 ending?.

And yes, in the process some people are going to be as#~hole, but that happens all the times, they're not the problem, the problem is that most of your fans completly disagree with the ending. Wich means that something went wrong, because on ME1 and 2 we were confident on your "artistic vision", and then, somehow, that artistic vision changed on the last 10 minutes and left us with a terrible feeling of wtf happened.

Great post! Let's get some back and forth discussion on this if this really is a co-written franchise as Casey said.

[ShepardTheHopeful]

Katherine wrote...

ShepardTheHopeful wrote...

I'm only asking for information to counteract the hypocracy.

You state we're listening but you didn't know we were displeased with the ending and didn't know we would be. That's hypocritical. 

You state the ending will not change and you want to keep artistic integrity but you give no information about the whole teams involvement, as well as the fact that you're technically changing the ending by adding more to it and "clarifying it" that's a hypocricy. 

You created a character who was die hard and refused to bow down to anyone. Yet he folds rather quickly to a child AI. That's a hypocricy. 

You claim you care about answering questions so that we may not use comments against you or fight you. Yet we are given nothing but vague tweets and comments making us thing those very things. That's hypocricy. 

.....tons of fans feel that we'd be happier if you'd just talk to us like human beings instead of leaving us to theorize and troll on a forum. If you could talk to one decent normal human being for a quick interview tell us some thoughts of the staff be honest with us instead of leaving us to speculate that EA rushed you, or Hudson and Mac were being egotistical and ignoring the staff. We'd like explinations to the hypocritical situations we keep hearing from your company and your pr departments. And the entire thing at PAX was even more vague and confusing let alone a little insulting to the point that some would believe it's not even a real audience in there but rather plants to act like a 90s sitcom reel. 

We want to stop speculating, we want to believe you, and we want to have some faith to go on. But you keep stretching us so thin how can we possibly believe or respect you after all this. Especially if the extended ending turns out to be..yet another hypocricy? 

Are we so unworthy of some answers to these questions? 

I don't think that word means what you think it means, though you got it right one time. Hypocrisy does not mean the same thing as dishonesty or ambiguity.

Definition of HYPOCRISY
1: a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not; especially : the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion

....
2. [/b]An act or instance of such falseness. It could work in my situations but if you would prefer I could use the word

contradictory meaning 
Mutually opposed or inconsistent. 

Though it doesn't change the meaning of what I wrote you should pay more attention to that than your belief of my bad use of a word >>; The meaning was still legible. 

[Sesshaku]

crappyjazzy wrote...

Sesshaku wrote...


But you guys are doing it wrong. It's not against us that you need to be defensive. We are your clients for spacebrat sake. We loved Mass Effect 1 and 2, and Mass Effect 3 wasn't terrible....but it had a terrible ending.

We don't want YOU to say anything like that. We want BIOWARE as a whole, say: "Okay guys, it's clear that we missed the target, we are not going to change the canon ending, but we are going to explain why we think the ending was great, why the plotholes aren't plotholes, and we are seriously considering making a DLC with new endings based on your feedback". I would pay 10 usd to see new and more coherent endings,  im not your enemy, im a dissatisfied client. and the shields your commpany is raising it's not helping you, its hurting you. We want the exact opposite. We want to talk. But real talk. 

For example.

Why you guys though this ending was right? What's the explanation to that? What are your interpretations that could answer the plotholes? What are your plans to future Mass Effect games? Perhaps that would help to understand the move. 

But if you say things like "we didn't knew there was such a demand", or "artistic integrity", etc. Then you'll make angry the wrong people, your clients.

Because each interview about ME3 prior to release was about EXACTLY what we wanted. What happened in the middle? How did a clear statement about diverse endings ended up on a A1,A2 and A3 ending?.

And yes, in the process some people are going to be as#~hole, but that happens all the times, they're not the problem, the problem is that most of your fans completly disagree with the ending. Wich means that something went wrong, because on ME1 and 2 we were confident on your "artistic vision", and then, somehow, that artistic vision changed on the last 10 minutes and left us with a terrible feeling of wtf happened.

I really want to understand this.  They are making DLC, but you want them to tell you what's going to be in it before it's released?

MMMmmm yes, i wouldn't mind that. You see, that DLC is not a new game, is something that should have been on the game. I already saw the ending, if they're not going to change it or expand it post story, and they're just going to add scenes for "making it easier". Then, please, enlight me with a few preview of the explanation, i wouldn't mind at all.
If they are going to actually expand the ending with some post ending, etc. Then please just tell us: "We will show you more about the future". In that case, i don't want spoilers. But i hope they provide a gooooood explanation.

Modifié par Sesshaku, 13 avril 2012 - 01:29 .

[Skybree]

ShepardTheHopeful wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

sdfgdsfsdfsfs wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Not doing what you want us to do, and not agreeing with our decisions, does not mean we have stopped listening. It is possible to completely disagree with you while still taking your feedback into account.

It's possible to disagree, but a lot of the "issues" people raised with the ending are extremely legitimate, and to say that you "completely disagree" with those legitimate points is... troubling, to say the least.

And having a difference of opinion has absolutely no effect on the "legitimacy" of those issues. If you dislike X in a game, my saying "I disagree with you" has no effect on your opinion. It has no effect on BioWare already choosing to create clarification DLC. It doesn't make me right, it doesn't make you wrong. The only reason people want BioWare to (or me) to agree is to give you more ammunition to say "see? even Stanley Woo agrees with this!" or "even BioWare agrees. this proves we are right!" which does nothing except, well, make you feel better about being right.

But I'm not going to provide answers that will only be used to be either wielded as a weapon or given as proof that we hate you, because neither is conducive to productive discussion.

I'm only asking for information to counteract the hypocracy.

You state we're listening but you didn't know we were displeased with the ending and didn't know we would be. That's hypocritical. 

You state the ending will not change and you want to keep artistic integrity but you give no information about the whole teams involvement, as well as the fact that you're technically changing the ending by adding more to it and "clarifying it" that's a hypocricy. 

You created a character who was die hard and refused to bow down to anyone. Yet he folds rather quickly to a child AI. That's a hypocricy. 

You claim you care about answering questions so that we may not use comments against you or fight you. Yet we are given nothing but vague tweets and comments making us thing those very things. That's hypocricy. 

.....tons of fans feel that we'd be happier if you'd just talk to us like human beings instead of leaving us to theorize and troll on a forum. If you could talk to one decent normal human being for a quick interview tell us some thoughts of the staff be honest with us instead of leaving us to speculate that EA rushed you, or Hudson and Mac were being egotistical and ignoring the staff. We'd like explinations to the hypocritical situations we keep hearing from your company and your pr departments. And the entire thing at PAX was even more vague and confusing let alone a little insulting to the point that some would believe it's not even a real audience in there but rather plants to act like a 90s sitcom reel. 

We want to stop speculating, we want to believe you, and we want to have some faith to go on. But you keep stretching us so thin how can we possibly believe or respect you after all this. Especially if the extended ending turns out to be..yet another hypocricy? 

Are we so unworthy of some answers to these questions? 

This ....

[Rheinlandman]

Sesshaku wrote...

crappyjazzy wrote...

Sesshaku wrote...


But you guys are doing it wrong. It's not against us that you need to be defensive. We are your clients for spacebrat sake. We loved Mass Effect 1 and 2, and Mass Effect 3 wasn't terrible....but it had a terrible ending.

We don't want YOU to say anything like that. We want BIOWARE as a whole, say: "Okay guys, it's clear that we missed the target, we are not going to change the canon ending, but we are going to explain why we think the ending was great, why the plotholes aren't plotholes, and we are seriously considering making a DLC with new endings based on your feedback". I would pay 10 usd to see new and more coherent endings,  im not your enemy, im a dissatisfied client. and the shields your commpany is raising it's not helping you, its hurting you. We want the exact opposite. We want to talk. But real talk. 

For example.

Why you guys though this ending was right? What's the explanation to that? What are your interpretations that could answer the plotholes? What are your plans to future Mass Effect games? Perhaps that would help to understand the move. 

But if you say things like "we didn't knew there was such a demand", or "artistic integrity", etc. Then you'll make angry the wrong people, your clients.

Because each interview about ME3 prior to release was about EXACTLY what we wanted. What happened in the middle? How did a clear statement about diverse endings ended up on a A1,A2 and A3 ending?.

And yes, in the process some people are going to be as#~hole, but that happens all the times, they're not the problem, the problem is that most of your fans completly disagree with the ending. Wich means that something went wrong, because on ME1 and 2 we were confident on your "artistic vision", and then, somehow, that artistic vision changed on the last 10 minutes and left us with a terrible feeling of wtf happened.

I really want to understand this.  They are making DLC, but you want them to tell you what's going to be in it before it's released?

MMMmmm yes, i wouldn't mind that.

I think many here would like a little reassurance as to what they are working, many feel the project was mismanaged and are unwilling to trust Bioware to make this right.

Modifié par Rheinlandman, 13 avril 2012 - 01:32 .

[Icinix]

There is a demand for it because they've been telling us for three games that what it would be.

I cannot wrap my head around how for three games they marketed YOUR Shepard, NO canon, YOUR choices, YOUR consequences.

Then they built ME3 against a lot of the very thing THEY were establishing and then came out somewhat shocked that people were upset.

[Spectre Impersonator]

Eyeshield21 wrote...
Once again, I have to ask: Did the entire ME team support the endings? Cause I'm pretty sure some didn't like the endings or felt uneasy about it.

Considering that most of the game is great, I'm thinking most of the team was smart enough to know the ending was crap. There's been little bits of evidence that the lower level writers and other staff think it's crap. Patrick Weekes' blog post for one. For two, no one has been able to explain why the ending is so meaningful and great. I would bet much of the staff is upset with whoever came up with the last ten minutes and they have every right to be because of how it took away from their great work.

[Faded-Myth]

Stanley Woo wrote...
And having a difference of opinion has absolutely no effect on the "legitimacy" of those issues. If you dislike X in a game, my saying "I disagree with you" has no effect on your opinion. It has no effect on BioWare already choosing to create clarification DLC. It doesn't make me right, it doesn't make you wrong. The only reason people want BioWare to (or me) to agree is to give you more ammunition to say "see? even Stanley Woo agrees with this!" or "even BioWare agrees. this proves we are right!" which does nothing except, well, make you feel better about being right.

But I'm not going to provide answers that will only be used to be either wielded as a weapon or given as proof that we hate you, because neither is conducive to productive discussion.

Even if it's not what you intended to convey, the way I read this is that we can't be right. Most of us aren't looking for a confession just to say "We told you so" or use it as ammunition. That's a blanket statement that really isn't fair. We're not all insatiable children. If anything, the lack of direct discussion over the issue between BioWare and fans (not including 2nd hand Twitter chats and the feedback thread) is what's causing so much unrest. This whole issue wouldn't have stretched out over such a long time if there'd been more interaction.

That's like having two people in an argument, and one person says "I won't say you're right because that will give you ammunition."

[Orthodox Infidel]

tomcplotts wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Not doing what you want us to do, and not agreeing with our decisions, does not mean we have stopped listening. It is possible to completely disagree with you while still taking your feedback into account.

at the risk of getting banned, this is completely disingenuous stanley. this means one of two things: either you're not listening and you're not being truthful here, OR you are listening as you say but apparently you feel that your patrons/consumers/subjects are just completely retarded and have nothing of value to add. So you can choose oblivious, contemptuous, patronizing, imperial or, probably the best of these, indifferent.

Probably not the best argument to insert yourself into.

I bolded "your patrons/customers/subjects" to point out that this is the weakest part of your argument, because it assumes that every person who purchased ME3 wanted the same thing for the ending, and wants the same fix for it now in the Extended Cut. Which is usually what people who claim "OMG BIOWARE ISN'T LISTENING TO ITS CUSTOMERS" usually fail to realize.