486 réponses à ce sujet

[txmn1016]

Oakenshield1 wrote...

Reported Woo for peer review.

[FellishBeast]

SaladinDheonqar wrote...

Velocithon wrote...

Bioware: "Hey we're gonna put this, this, this, this, and even THIS into the game IT'LL BE GREAT!!!"

Fans: " OMG this is going to be so cool they're doing everything we want!!!"

*game is released*

Fans: "...dafuq nothing you said was in here..."

Bioware: "We didn't know there was such a demand for it"

Fans:

Muah! This is perfect.

I think someone should put this in a letter and send it to the head of BioWare.

[ibage]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Not doing what you want us to do, and not agreeing with our decisions, does not mean we have stopped listening. It is possible to completely disagree with you while still taking your feedback into account.

Well, I hope you're happy. I went to facepalm this comment and hit my nose. Now I'm bleeding. That was incredibly stupid on my part but it STILL doesn't top this comment. 

[wesr]

Oakenshield1 wrote...

Reported Woo for peer review.

That sounds bad. Would that count as an attack on a staff member? Not to mention he's probably the only mod on duty at the moment.

Modifié par wesr, 13 avril 2012 - 02:16 .

[Rip504]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Not doing what you want us to do, and not agreeing with our decisions, does not mean we have stopped listening. It is possible to completely disagree with you while still taking your feedback into account.

I Second this. They did listen,and during the entire ad campaign they told us exactly what "we wanted" to hear.
Then March 6,2012 came and we received a broken product,That was full of lies.

And now they are trying to fix it.

[Deemz]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Not doing what you want us to do, and not agreeing with our decisions, does not mean we have stopped listening. It is possible to completely disagree with you while still taking your feedback into account.

Wow. First time I have agreed with Mr. Woo in a good while.

[sdfgdsfsdfsfs]

Rip504 wrote...

And now they are trying to fix it.

I hope they add a purple cutscene, it's my favorite color.

[tomcplotts]

Orthodox Infidel wrote...

tomcplotts wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Not doing what you want us to do, and not agreeing with our decisions, does not mean we have stopped listening. It is possible to completely disagree with you while still taking your feedback into account.

at the risk of getting banned, this is completely disingenuous stanley. this means one of two things: either you're not listening and you're not being truthful here, OR you are listening as you say but apparently you feel that your patrons/consumers/subjects are just completely retarded and have nothing of value to add. So you can choose oblivious, contemptuous, patronizing, imperial or, probably the best of these, indifferent.

Probably not the best argument to insert yourself into.

I bolded "your patrons/customers/subjects" to point out that this is the weakest part of your argument, because it assumes that every person who purchased ME3 wanted the same thing for the ending, and wants the same fix for it now in the Extended Cut. Which is usually what people who claim "OMG BIOWARE ISN'T LISTENING TO ITS CUSTOMERS" usually fail to realize.

Actually, those are labels not arguments. We would both agree that there are subgroups with expectations ranging from humble to reasonably demanding to lunatic. However, the existence of lunatics doesn't obviate the ability to listen and act on feedback from the humble and reasonable. So no, I don't make that assumption at all in my post, but I understand what you're trying to say here. I think it's just a very different discussion.

[Reptilian Rob]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Not doing what you want us to do, and not agreeing with our decisions, does not mean we have stopped listening.

Whoa man, that's some serious Starchild circular logic going on there...

[txmn1016]

wesr wrote...

Oakenshield1 wrote...

Reported Woo for peer review.

That sounds bad. Would that count as an attack on a staff member? Not to mention he's probably the only mod on duty at the moment.

May not count as an attack but it is most certainly a d*** move.

[FellishBeast]

ibage wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Not doing what you want us to do, and not agreeing with our decisions, does not mean we have stopped listening. It is possible to completely disagree with you while still taking your feedback into account.

Well, I hope you're happy. I went to facepalm this comment and hit my nose. Now I'm bleeding. That was incredibly stupid on my part but it STILL doesn't top this comment. 

[cavs25]

klungilungi wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

sdfgdsfsdfsfs wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Not doing what you want us to do, and not agreeing with our decisions, does not mean we have stopped listening. It is possible to completely disagree with you while still taking your feedback into account.

It's possible to disagree, but a lot of the "issues" people raised with the ending are extremely legitimate, and to say that you "completely disagree" with those legitimate points is... troubling, to say the least.

And having a difference of opinion has absolutely no effect on the "legitimacy" of those issues. If you dislike X in a game, my saying "I disagree with you" has no effect on your opinion. It has no effect on BioWare already choosing to create clarification DLC. It doesn't make me right, it doesn't make you wrong. The only reason people want BioWare to (or me) to agree is to give you more ammunition to say "see? even Stanley Woo agrees with this!" or "even BioWare agrees. this proves we are right!" which does nothing except, well, make you feel better about being right.

But I'm not going to provide answers that will only be used to be either wielded as a weapon or given as proof that we hate you, because neither is conducive to productive discussion.

It is not about opinion or preference. The ending introduces major canon breaking plot holes, (canon that you established, the fact that bioware doesn't seem to know their own game is quite troubling). These issues needs to be adressed, and no matter what your preference is 2+2=4, yet you managed to tell us that 2+2=5, and when we complain and say that it doesn't make any sense, you tell us it is just a matter of opinion. -.- 

Mr. Stanley if you honestly believe that the endings being garbage are simply an opinion, you really aren't "listening" . Remember that book you released that had so many plot holes that you had to re do it?
Yep? the ending is just like that.
Like he says 2+2=4 but you gave us 2+space magic=Speculation x Artistic Integrity:wizard:
Tell the writers that their math is a little off.

Edit: Ohhh and seriously your PR department is horrible...assuming you have one, because is hard to tell.

Modifié par cavs25, 13 avril 2012 - 02:22 .

[M0keys]

Sure, it could mean they're listening. They're just listening for specific things they want to hear anyway and discarding the rest, but using "we're listening" as a default PR response to make it seem like they're taking everyone's responses into account. As in, they're not really listening to us at all unless it suits something they already have in motion.

Gets mentioned positively inside Bioware: They want closure and clarity! Just like we thought!
Gets filtered out: Everything else.

At least that's my read on Mr. Woo's response to this matter. Maybe it's different higher up, but it sure sounds like we're just being humored here.

Modifié par M0keys, 13 avril 2012 - 02:21 .

[DaosX]

Stanley Woo wrote...
Not doing what you want us to do, and not agreeing with our decisions, does not mean we have stopped listening. It is possible to completely disagree with you while still taking your feedback into account.

TRANSLATION: "Your complaints have been heard, considered...and ignored."

[Mad-Max90]

I don't give a **** about blue babies, I want an ending fitting of the ME franchise, that's not hard to do. apparently drew already had a great one that BioWare for some ****ing reason scrapped.

[PhotonMaze]

ShepardTheHopeful wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

sdfgdsfsdfsfs wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Not doing what you want us to do, and not agreeing with our decisions, does not mean we have stopped listening. It is possible to completely disagree with you while still taking your feedback into account.

It's possible to disagree, but a lot of the "issues" people raised with the ending are extremely legitimate, and to say that you "completely disagree" with those legitimate points is... troubling, to say the least.

And having a difference of opinion has absolutely no effect on the "legitimacy" of those issues. If you dislike X in a game, my saying "I disagree with you" has no effect on your opinion. It has no effect on BioWare already choosing to create clarification DLC. It doesn't make me right, it doesn't make you wrong. The only reason people want BioWare to (or me) to agree is to give you more ammunition to say "see? even Stanley Woo agrees with this!" or "even BioWare agrees. this proves we are right!" which does nothing except, well, make you feel better about being right.

But I'm not going to provide answers that will only be used to be either wielded as a weapon or given as proof that we hate you, because neither is conducive to productive discussion.

I'm only asking for information to counteract the hypocracy.

You state we're listening but you didn't know we were displeased with the ending and didn't know we would be. That's hypocritical. 

You state the ending will not change and you want to keep artistic integrity but you give no information about the whole teams involvement, as well as the fact that you're technically changing the ending by adding more to it and "clarifying it" that's a hypocricy. 

You created a character who was die hard and refused to bow down to anyone. Yet he folds rather quickly to a child AI. That's a hypocricy. 

You claim you care about answering questions so that we may not use comments against you or fight you. Yet we are given nothing but vague tweets and comments making us thing those very things. That's hypocricy. 

.....tons of fans feel that we'd be happier if you'd just talk to us like human beings instead of leaving us to theorize and troll on a forum. If you could talk to one decent normal human being for a quick interview tell us some thoughts of the staff be honest with us instead of leaving us to speculate that EA rushed you, or Hudson and Mac were being egotistical and ignoring the staff. We'd like explinations to the hypocritical situations we keep hearing from your company and your pr departments. And the entire thing at PAX was even more vague and confusing let alone a little insulting to the point that some would believe it's not even a real audience in there but rather plants to act like a 90s sitcom reel. 

We want to stop speculating, we want to believe you, and we want to have some faith to go on. But you keep stretching us so thin how can we possibly believe or respect you after all this. Especially if the extended ending turns out to be..yet another hypocricy? 

Are we so unworthy of some answers to these questions? 

I don't think you understand what hypocricy means.. seriously.

[M0keys]

DaosX wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...
Not doing what you want us to do, and not agreeing with our decisions, does not mean we have stopped listening. It is possible to completely disagree with you while still taking your feedback into account.

TRANSLATION: "Your complaints have been heard, considered...and ignored."

"But gee wizz, thanks for stopping by! You can always count on your friends at Bioware to ignore all your opinions with a bright and sunny smile on our faces!"

Again, just guess work. It might be a mis-statement by Woo.

I hope.

Modifié par M0keys, 13 avril 2012 - 02:23 .

[AGogley]

Stanley Woo wrote...

sdfgdsfsdfsfs wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Not doing what you want us to do, and not agreeing with our decisions, does not mean we have stopped listening. It is possible to completely disagree with you while still taking your feedback into account.

It's possible to disagree, but a lot of the "issues" people raised with the ending are extremely legitimate, and to say that you "completely disagree" with those legitimate points is... troubling, to say the least.

And having a difference of opinion has absolutely no effect on the "legitimacy" of those issues. If you dislike X in a game, my saying "I disagree with you" has no effect on your opinion. It has no effect on BioWare already choosing to create clarification DLC. It doesn't make me right, it doesn't make you wrong. The only reason people want BioWare to (or me) to agree is to give you more ammunition to say "see? even Stanley Woo agrees with this!" or "even BioWare agrees. this proves we are right!" which does nothing except, well, make you feel better about being right.

But I'm not going to provide answers that will only be used to be either wielded as a weapon or given as proof that we hate you, because neither is conducive to productive discussion.

Mr. Woo:

I greatly respect your work on Mass Effect and that you are willing to endure the comments on the forum that your participation generates.  But what a mess.  I understand it's Bioware's game to make as they please.  But the ending is horrible anyway you want to slice it and this whole episode has left a very bitter taste towards Bioware.

I'm really sorry to see it go this way.

[tomcplotts]

sfam wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

For one, I am not going to believe any hype about any game from BW, or from any other game company for that matter. I know about trade magazine reviews and how skewed they can be based upon advertizing revenue from a given company. About the only magazine that offers fairly unbiased product reviews is Consumer Reports and they don't do video game reviews.

This is the one that blows me away.  Granted, I'm a 40-something at this point, but I long since gave up any notion that gamer review magazines/websites were objective.  Clearly, many still felt they had serious ethics before Mass Effect 3 came out (hence the Jessica Chobot "outrage").  Yet the dychotomy betwee the "professional gamer" reviews and actual gamer reviews for Mass Effect 3 pretty much laid this issue bare: Bottom line, there are no unbiased gamer websites.  By their nature, they must be biased.  Any group dependent on those they cover by definition are biased.  Same with White House reporters for instance - they need access or they have no story, which clearly tones down their statements. 

The other issue of course is that between us, we know that many of those professional reviewers did not make it to the end of the game before posting their review. Lazy is "in" in internet reporting these days.

this is a lesson that can't be hammered home hard enough for many gamers. I have to admit I've been taken by surpise at the naivete that exists among this demographic about how corporate enterprises operate and how they view human relationships. I figured everyone understood "conflict of interest". Boy, was I wrong!

[Ponei]

Velocithon wrote...

Bioware: "Hey we're gonna put this, this, this, this, and even THIS into the game IT'LL BE GREAT!!!"

Fans: " OMG this is going to be so cool they're doing everything we want!!!"

*game is released*

Fans: "...dafuq nothing you said was in here..."

Bioware: "We didn't know there was such a demand for it"

Fans:

Modifié par Ponei, 13 avril 2012 - 02:24 .

[M0keys]

BTW, Stanley, do you really believe we want a good dialogue with you guys just because we want to troll you? Is that truly what the internal culture of Bioware is like right now?

Do you think we buy your products to troll you, too?

PRO-TIP: We don't. It's all a part of the same cycle, dude.

But we might just reach a point where we would only buy your products to troll ourselves.

[wesr]

txmn1016 wrote...

wesr wrote...

Oakenshield1 wrote...

Reported Woo for peer review.

That sounds bad. Would that count as an attack on a staff member? Not to mention he's probably the only mod on duty at the moment.

May not count as an attack but it is most certainly a d*** move.

I kinda agree. I had a guy do that on a forum I was a mod on. He was getting back at me for a trade gone bad. He didn't have fun from that point on.

[iotha1804]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Not doing what you want us to do, and not agreeing with our decisions, does not mean we have stopped listening. It is possible to completely disagree with you while still taking your feedback into account.

Mod troll. Perfect. This forum got funnier and funnier. What's the point listening if you're only gonna do as you please. Saying you *completely* disagrees with someone but take his feedback into account only means that you being hypocrate. 

[Varus Praetor]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Not doing what you want us to do, and not agreeing with our decisions, does not mean we have stopped listening. It is possible to completely disagree with you while still taking your feedback into account.

And this is why I've completely lost faith in BW.  It's like Ford "disagreeing" with the critics of the Pinto.  

"We aknowledge that it bursts into flames when struck from the rear, but our engineering team stands behind the design.  We will recall all Pintos in order to add a clarifying sticker to the rear bumper warning that the gas tank exploads when struck."

[kaztas]

Casey Hudson said that a boss fight in this game would be too "VIDEO-GAMEY"!!! What the hell do you expect out of them anyways?