41 réponses à ce sujet

[nuculerman]

 Can anyone give me numbers on the damage they're getting?  I'm not sure how to check.  But from experience now I'm convinced that Death Hex + Death Cloud does way more damage than Storm of the Century.  In fact, I'm not impressed with Storm of the Century at all on my nightmare run with two mages (Morrigan and Me).  It only kills white enemies before it's done.  But wait a second, Inferno already did that by itself.  Meanwhile, my necromancer just casts death hex and death cloud, and he is equally effective solo as Morrigan and my other mage are together.  I'm very confused.

[Matthew Young CT]

entropic death (hex+cloud) is an instant damage burst so you can't really compare them.

if you insist on it, entropic death is 200+2*SP, SotC is 30+0.3*SP every 2 seconds.

ETA: if you sit in a SotC for the duration you will take 450+4.5*SP damage.

Modifié par Matthew Young CT, 05 décembre 2009 - 05:35 .

[Taleroth]

Entropic Death isn't even AoE, it only applies to the hexed enemy.

[nuculerman]

Matthew Young CT wrote...

entropic death (hex+cloud) is an instant damage burst so you can't really compare them.

if you insist on it, entropic death is 200+2*SP, SotC is 30+0.3*SP every 2 seconds.

Awesome.  Thanks you.  So with my spell power at 50, entropic death does 300 and SotC does 45 every 2 seconds, which means it takes 13 seconds for storm of the century to deal comparable damage.  Weird.  So SotC does more damage over all.  It never seems like it does though.  I wonder if it's because most enemies have more elemental resistances than spirit resistances?  Because I swear, entropic death kills more people than SotC.  And between Morrigan and my mage, we can keep whole mobs in that AoE for the full 20 or so seconds the spell lasts between the glyff combo, blood wound and fireball.

[Taleroth]

nuculerman wrote...

I wonder if it's because most enemies have more elemental resistances than spirit resistances? 

This is a possible factor.  Almost nobody has spirit resistance.

[nuculerman]

Taleroth wrote...

Entropic Death isn't even AoE, it only applies to the hexed enemy.

Oh, well death cloud itself does a ton of damage then, because it kills more people than storm of the century does.

[nuculerman]

Taleroth wrote...

Entropic Death isn't even AoE, it only applies to the hexed enemy.

Oh, well death cloud itself does a ton of damage then, because it kills more people than storm of the century does.

[Matthew Young CT]

blizzard and tempest do the same damage as death cloud, and blizzard has other effects ofc. death cloud is the best element though. inferno does twice as much as the aforementioned, especially deadly for undead

[metatrans]

inferno is the highest damage AoE by a large amount. it outdamages even Storm of the Century. its only drawbacks are its higher mana cost and lack of secondary effects (which blizzard and SotC do have).

[nuculerman]

metatrans wrote...

inferno is the highest damage AoE by a large amount. it outdamages even Storm of the Century. its only drawbacks are its higher mana cost and lack of secondary effects (which blizzard and SotC do have).

The only problem is that everybody and their mother has decent fire resistance.  And apparently no one ever has any spirit resistance.

Thanks for the help guys.  I think I'll switch to playing with my necromancer for now.  Though I should probably call him a Sith Lord.  Honestly, cast blood wound and chain lighting and you'll really feel like you're in the wrong story line.  Take the AW specialization and you'll really feel like you stepped out of the Star Wars universe to teach the people in DA how it's done.

[Matthew Young CT]

ya even tempest has secondary of damaging stamina

[themaxzero]

Actually Inferno does 40+ 0.4*SP over 4 seconds.



Storm does 30+0.3*SP every 2 seconds (60+0.6*SP every 4 seconds).



After playing through and using both I ended up thinking either was ideal. Inferno is good but does not work well with Blizzard or Grease.



Simply stacking a normal Blizzard/Tempest (without Spell Might) is enough to kill 90% of enemies while Freezing, slowing and knocking them down. Throw in a Grease and you are set.

[konfeta]

SotC's advantage over other spells AoE/Range, not replace other AoE in every situation. I always found it to be the best spell to cast when you get the drop against a camp of enemies.



Though the difference between using any of these big nukes is purely academic. Whenever you kill 80% or 100% spending half your mana bar or all of it, it doesn't matter when mana completely regenerates by the time you reach the next group.



Just pick whatever you think looks the coolest.

[Chragen]

I'm able to use Storm of the Century on my current play through, but I honestly feel it breaks the game. Along with some other mage spells.

It just makes the whole thing trivial even on nightmare.

[nuculerman]

Chragen wrote...

I'm able to use Storm of the Century on my current play through, but I honestly feel it breaks the game. Along with some other mage spells.
It just makes the whole thing trivial even on nightmare.

I don't agree at all.  I really must be missing something with SotC.  End game, for me, SotC doesn't even manage to kill all white enemies on nightmare.  And it takes about 1/3 of the health of yellow enemies.  And most enemies are still able to hit my characters with arrows and spells.

I find blood wound, death cloud and death hex lines to be way more effective at everything SotC is suppsoed to do for the same talent point cost.  That combo does more damage, instantly kills  the biggest baddie in the room, and is less likely to admit stragglers who get through to melee you.

Another more effective combo is grease/fire ball, followed by double glyffs and inferno.  Even with enemies having higher fire resistances, that combo seems to kill way more people and keep the CC'ed better than SotC does.  

So again, I'm failing to see where all the SotC hype comes from.

[konfeta]

It's a long range nuke. Don't cast it at things that are already running/shooting at you and you won't have survivors.

[nuculerman]

konfeta wrote...

It's a long range nuke. Don't cast it at things that are already running/shooting at you and you won't have survivors.

That's what I do.  But again, inferno by itself is almost as effective, so I'm still failing to see the benefit of investing eight more talent points just to get SotC.

[konfeta]

Then don't. What's the problem? SotC has its niche, I described it, and it serves as a simple "skip this battle" button for me - I am not sure why it kills everything for me (it basically deals Fireball damage every tick) and doesn't for you. If some other combination of AoE combos does the "kill everything" part for you, use it instead. There is zero need to stockpile 4-5 different yield nukes when one suffices for you.

Modifié par konfeta, 05 décembre 2009 - 08:24 .

[Jestert]

doesn't SotC also have considerable larger AoE than either blizzard, tempest, or inferno?

[Besetment]

SotC has a massive area of effect. Far larger than Blizzard, Tempest or Inferno and perhaps up to twice the radius? Its kind of hard to tell. Sometimes its actually annoying that the radius is so big. i.e. Denerim alleyway fights where you see a nice mob up ahead thats just asking to get blown away in a hurricane but your back is already up against a wall and the AoE of SotC is so big it will cream your whole party too. :|

Modifié par Besetment, 05 décembre 2009 - 09:31 .

[nuculerman]

 yep.  Well I'm clearly doing something wrong.  I'll get back to you when I find out what it is.

[DragoonKain3]

@nuculerman

I don't agree at all. I really must be missing something with SotC. End game, for me, SotC doesn't even manage to kill all white enemies on nightmare. And it takes about 1/3 of the health of yellow enemies. And most enemies are still able to hit my characters with arrows and spells.

You have the same problem as I do. People run right through my Storms all the time, even with earthquake to knock/slow them down. Only surefire way to keep them in is through is by using Repulsion glyph, but you don't always have the benefit of a chokepoint.


@maxzero

Simply stacking a normal Blizzard/Tempest (without Spell Might) is enough to kill 90% of enemies while Freezing, slowing and knocking them down. Throw in a Grease and you are set.

I knew you'd come around some day (though Earthquake is superior to Grease due to it being the same AoE size as Blizzard). Now if only I can convince Konfeta...

Speaking of who...


@konfeta

SotC's advantage over other spells AoE/Range, not replace other AoE in every situation. I always found it to be the best spell to cast when you get the drop against a camp of enemies.

SotC's only advantage is AoE, since it has same range as the others. 

Though the difference between using any of these big nukes is purely academic. Whenever you kill 80% or 100% spending half your mana bar or all of it, it doesn't matter when mana completely regenerates by the time you reach the next group.

You have to wait longer for your mana to regenerate for one thing. I personally hate 'downtime' (ie. time spent resting), and minimizing it is part of why we have the term 'min/max' after all.

It's a long range nuke. Don't cast it at things that are already running/shooting at you and you won't have survivors.

One reason why I like using Blizzard by itself is because if paired with another AoE stun (scattershot/holy smite/earthquake etc.), you can actually deal with these kind of situations. Once they're frozen, drop another AoE to finish them off, and you're set.

Just pick whatever you think looks the coolest.

I think this is my main problem with Storm. Sure its probably the coolest spell in the game, but worth the 4 talent points to get it? (not counting blizzard line of course, since thats the best line) Certainly not worth it.

In other words, in a powergaming min/max perspective, you shouldn't go Storm. It's only worth it for the 'cool points', as there are other spells that do the same trick and you'll save up on talent points not getting the electricity line.

Then don't. What's the problem? SotC has its niche, I described it, and it serves as a simple "skip this battle" button for me

Quite funny though that using its two component spells without activating storm is the same 'skip this battle' button. So yeah, storm is cool and all, but you've just spent 4 talent points for no visible gain at all. For most people this doesn't matter, but if we're talking about totally min/maxing a certain character, its a total waste.

Not that Storm is a terrible spell, just a waste of points when you don't have a lot of it.

[hOnOr]

Whenever I see someone not impressed by SotC, they invariably are using the incorrect blizzard+tempest+inferno combination rather than the correct blizzard+tempest+spellmight combo.

[DragoonKain3]

Yeah, Storm has bigger AoE radius. But Blizzard/Tempest/Death Cloud/Inferno's radius is big enough to cover maybe 99% of your AoE needs. Besides, Storm isn't that much bigger to justify its talent cost plus the extra 100 mana drain
.
AoE sizes
Blizzard - 206
Tempest - 213
Inferno - 224
Storm - 233
 

[DragoonKain3]

hOnOr wrote...

Whenever I see someone not impressed by SotC, they invariably are using the incorrect blizzard+tempest+inferno combination rather than the correct blizzard+tempest+spellmight combo.

Oh no, still not impressed with Storm despite using blizz+tempest+spellmight. Waste of 3 talent points, not to mention you have to split your elemental focus in order to further accomodate it.