41 réponses à ce sujet

[metatrans]

its kind of a myth that fire resistance is prevalent. there are relatively few mobs with any significant resistance. from what i can tell the following mobs resist fire: Dragons (immune), Ash Wraiths (immune), Rage Demons (immune), Shades (reduced damage, but shades have resistance against all elements of damage).



thats just a few mobs in the whole game really an nowhere did i run into a whole area where i felt crippled because i was using fire damage. frost and nature are the problematic damage types to be perfectly honest. undead are basically immune to both and there are lots of undead mobs in the game. darkspawn are highly nature resistant as well and thats probably the most common enemy type in the game.



if resistance was the primary concern than Lightning would be considered the best spell line. there's even less electric resist than there is spirit resist. but what we're chasing is performance despite resistance. fire and frost are the highest performance damage types both in terms of spell selection and staff selection. spirit is a close 2nd, penalized mainly because there's no spirit damage staff.

[hOnOr]

DragoonKain3 wrote...

Oh no, still not impressed with Storm despite using blizz+tempest+spellmight. Waste of 3 talent points, not to mention you have to split your elemental focus in order to further accomodate it.

I disagree completely.  Spellmight is excellent on it's own and is also on the way to mana clash, so it's practically free. 

[DragoonKain3]

I'm talking about getting Lightning/Shock/Tempest in order to do storm. Those are the 'wasted' points, when they can be put somewhere else, and when getting the Death Cloud line pretty much does the Tempest line on top of giving you access to Entropic Death combo.



Spell Clash is what makes its line, and well worth the 2 crap spells and 1 mediocre spell at best to get it.





@metatrans

Really? More people are resistant to spirit than elec? I can name no monsters that resists/immune to spirit, while lower golems are resistant to elec and other golems are outright immune to it.

[konfeta]

Larger AoE translates into longer range by definition. And you don't have any real downtime, a zero willpower build means you literally regenerate the mana in the time you spend walking to the next fight. And if you open with Blizzard in a way that things are running to you, they get frozen for Storm to do its magic anyway.



And, honestly, I came to the conclusion that with Mages, min-maxing in terms of where you spend talent points is an overblown endeavor.



1. Spend 3 points in Cold. You just trivialized most melee and a few boss encounters in the game.

2. Spend 4 points in Spellmight tree. You just trivialized every demon, ashwraith, and mage encounter in the game.



You can have this before you leave Lothering. You now have 15+ points for spending on whatever the hell you like to tailor your Mage for pwettyness. The only thing that could legitimately make my mage significantly more powerful is taking points out of a few redundant Primal abilities (I went fro Elementalist achievement) and nabbing a few Entropy spells with some Glyphs.



Mage abilities are so broken in this game that you literally can build a mage with a spell to dominate every situation way before you run out of talent points to spend.

[metatrans]

dragoonkain,



what i have observed is that certain demons take reduced damage from spirit. i've never found a spirit immune monster though but have found several that take 25% less or even 50% less. in any case they aren't especially prevalent. i don't think anyone is so concerned that they'll sometimes find a yellow named skeleton or abomination that took 7 less damage from their arcane bolt.



but strictly speaking, yes, i've found considerably more spirit resistance than electric resistance. the only electric resistance of any kind that i know of in the game is the golems. everything else seems to take 100%.

[ogreballerina2]

Blizzard is good enough for me..( Nuke )



On Normal difficulty nobody should make it to your party alive with that spell.



The rest are overkill...looks cool though. I suppose if played a mage I'd go that route...pretty lights..ahhh..



It's like Cloud of Death in BG2 or the infamous Timestop spell...

[DragoonKain3]

@konfeta

And you don't have any real downtime, a zero willpower build means you literally regenerate the mana in the time you spend walking to the next fight.

Not with my max magic mage, even when maximixing +mana regen through equips. There's been many times when I have to wait for my mana to regen when I use Storm just for kicks (220 mana out of my 350 pool) where I could just walk off the mana by only using  Blizzard + Tempest (120 mana).

And if you open with Blizzard in a way that things are running to you, they get frozen for Storm to do its magic anyway.

But freeze effect goes away with Storm, giving melee people plenty of chance to run right through it while archers still have enough time to unload scatterhots before they die (which can be VERY VERY bad if there's a whole bunch of them). You said before you don't use Storm against people already running/shooting against you, and this is true whether you start with Blizz or Tempest.

And, honestly, I came to the conclusion that with Mages, min-maxing in terms of where you spend talent points is an overblown endeavor.
...
Mage abilities are so broken in this game that you literally can build a mage with a spell to dominate every situation way before you run out of talent points to spend.

But I'm not talking about the viability of builds, but the optimization of them. A sub-optimal build is still sub-optimal despite it being perfectly viable for the campaign. Heck, my mage I finished my first playthrough is one such mage (being able to use Storm), but I'm under no illusion it can be improved upon.

Seriously, games like DAO such as Neverwinter Nights, Knights of the Old Republic, and Jade Empire can be completed in the highest diffcutly even when using sub-optimal builds, but it doesn't stop people from trying to perfect their characters combat wise. Heck, even Mass Effect, probably the easiest Bioware game even at its highest difficulty, has an entire thread going over whether the pistol or the assault rifle is the best weapon class in the game, when you can go with either one and still complete the game with ease.

So in essence, what I'm trying to say is exactly what I've been saying all along. If you like 'cool', go for Storm. If not, there are better uses for 3 talent points. Most people are of the former type, but for those min-maxers powergamers like me, I'm trying to give them advice NOT to get it, coming from a fellow powergamer who has in-game experience with Storm for practically the entire game.

[Endurium]

I like storms after playing sorceress in Diablo 2, so Storm of the Century then Inferno for twin tornado fun. And yes I make sure I get Storm of the Century before casting Inferno on top of it. When being evil I like doing this in Redcliffe and killing everyone (get XP for blue circles as well as red). Does require some Lyrium pots though.

[konfeta]

See, this is what I am finding weird as hell. You keep describing situations, on Nightmare difficulty, with very similar equipment set up to mine, that simply don't happen to me.



I almost never encounter the situation where I run into a subsequent fight with lacking mana. The freeze effect from Blizzard persists for a second or two after the Storm is created. Storm annihilates Archers in the time it takes for them to actually Scattershot, whenever due to Blizzard disable or casting Storm out of their range in the first place. Melee mooks don't survive running through Storm. Etc.





Here is my issue with the min-maxing in DA, at least mage wise - I am an avid min-maxer myself. Yet this game completely drains any desire I have to actually follow through with it beyond stacking spellpower and picking 2-3 overpowered spells. Storm of the Century gibs whole encounters. Cone of Cold locks down melee swarms by itself for as long as you have mana. Etc, etc. I don't feel that my mage is significantly more powerful with new tricks because any trick I use already blows through this game's balance like through wet tissue paper. I simply don't feel the impact of a slightly stronger AoE combo when the supposedly sub-par SotC already autowins fights for me.

[themaxzero]

Don't forget Forcefield and Crushing Field!



Since I often skip the Spell Might line I get the full glyph line so I can get Glyph of Neutralisation instead. Glyph of Repulsion is probably my most used spell throughout all my Mages.

[metatrans]

i've done the same thing on my latest playthrough Maxzero.



the whole glyph line is amazingly good for my party (tank, rogue archer, 2 mages). Warding is a giant buff for the tank. Paralysis is the most effective single target CC for my build. its nearly as good as the Entropy line Paralyze but was available in a line i actually wanted more than 1 spell from. Repulsion is overpowered for a ranged based party like mine. just amazing.



and yeah, i've found neutralization to be an extremely effective anti-mage spell. it doesn't kill them outright like Mana Clash but it totally drains their mana regardless of how much they had so it renders them totally harmless in an instant.



glyphs are amazing. one of the best spell lines in the game.

[Rainen89]

Best aoe dps is Storm of the Century, I've yet to see better. Especially if stacking electricity damage items.

Also, entropic death only affects the target with death hex, not everyone in the cloud, it's high single target burst, not aoe. Although if you want to be pedantic about it, Mana clash is the best aoe dps.

Modifié par Rainen89, 07 décembre 2009 - 06:58 .

[Damar Stiehl]

Blood Wound: 36HP

Blizzard: ... Mana points.



Watching a roomful of enemies get DoTted to death while they literally cannot do ANYTHING - priceless.



Faster than Storm of the Century, too...

[nuculerman]

Damar Stiehl wrote...

Blood Wound: 36HP
Blizzard: ... Mana points.

Watching a roomful of enemies get DoTted to death while they literally cannot do ANYTHING - priceless.

Faster than Storm of the Century, too...

Yes, blood wound is almost as broken as CoC.  I solo'ed that mage mob in the bercellian forest on nightmare with a squishy mage just by casting mind blast, blood wound, running away, inferno, glyff combo.  Everything died.  It completely takes away the mage's necessity of 'having the drop" on an enemy.  Screw casting SotC before they see you.  Just run around blindly.  When you run into a group of enemies just cast blood wound and pretend it was you who has the drop on them.

Not to mention the recharge time on blood wound is a complete joke.  All you really need is blood wound and fire ball and can keep whole mobs of enemies off your mage for as long as you have a mana or health potion to drink.

Given the lore associated with blood magic in game, I have no problem with blood wound being over powered.  But I do have a problem with the cold and fire line being so much better than the earth line at everything there is to be better at.  They're better at CC, they're better at DPS, and they're definitely better in presentation.

[Deflagratio]

Chragen wrote...

I'm able to use Storm of the Century on my current play through, but I honestly feel it breaks the game. Along with some other mage spells.
It just makes the whole thing trivial even on nightmare.

Honestly, Playing the game after the first time makes the game Trivial on Nightmare. I hope one day for a Nightmare +1 mod that fixes some of the overpowered spells. And beefs up some enemies. Hell, to find a challenge in the game, I even started doing the high Dragon Fight like this:

1.Kill Kolgrim
2.Gather all enemies
3.Use Horn
4.Still win, but I actually had to use 2 potions.

And mind you, I'm not even doing cheap tactics like Taunt/Forcefield.  Honestly, I'd love to see a modded "Greatest Dragon Age Challenge" where Kolgrim actually summons the High Dragon to fight with him. That might prove a challenge.

Modifié par Deflagratio, 07 décembre 2009 - 04:20 .

[themaxzero]

nuculerman wrote...

Damar Stiehl wrote...

Blood Wound: 36HP
Blizzard: ... Mana points.

Watching a roomful of enemies get DoTted to death while they literally cannot do ANYTHING - priceless.

Faster than Storm of the Century, too...

Yes, blood wound is almost as broken as CoC.  I solo'ed that mage mob in the bercellian forest on nightmare with a squishy mage just by casting mind blast, blood wound, running away, inferno, glyff combo.  Everything died.  It completely takes away the mage's necessity of 'having the drop" on an enemy.  Screw casting SotC before they see you.  Just run around blindly.  When you run into a group of enemies just cast blood wound and pretend it was you who has the drop on them.

Not to mention the recharge time on blood wound is a complete joke.  All you really need is blood wound and fire ball and can keep whole mobs of enemies off your mage for as long as you have a mana or health potion to drink.

Given the lore associated with blood magic in game, I have no problem with blood wound being over powered.  But I do have a problem with the cold and fire line being so much better than the earth line at everything there is to be better at.  They're better at CC, they're better at DPS, and they're definitely better in presentation.

Blood Magic is like the Sleep Line in Entropy. Awesome against Humans, almost  useless aginst Demons (including Undead).

[Giedolf]

themaxzero wrote...


Actually Inferno does 40+ 0.4*SP over 4 seconds.

Storm does 30+0.3*SP every 2 seconds (60+0.6*SP every 4 seconds).

I've testet your formula on my pc with these results:

I have 143 spellpower(counting spellmight) +40% fire damage, +10% electric damage and 0% fire and electric resistance

I'm playing on normal(1/2 friendly fire dmg)

So Inferno should do 1.4*(40+0.4*143)*1/2 = 68.04 dmg over 4 seconds
It actually deals 21 dmg/sec = 84 dmg over 4 seconds

SotC should do 1.1*(30+0.3*143)*1/2 = 40.095 dmg over 2 seconds
It actually deals 53 dmg/sec = 106 dmg over 2 seconds

As you can see, StoC deals more than twice as much dmg as it's supposed to.


[Sorry for my bad english, I'm german]