448 réponses à ce sujet

[Galifreya]

My reply to you from the other thread. Which you heartily ignored:

"WOW. You're incredibly rude. And I already am at home.

I asked you to tell me where BioWare specifically dismisses IT. I've seen the PAX panel. I've read the announcements. I know BioWare's stance on the ending.

Where do they say that IT is false? Also, I never said IT would absolutely HAVE to mean that the Reapers aren't defeated. That is an assuption made by several IT enthusiasts, but not all of us subscribe to that. Your EMS could determine whether or not you defeat the Reapers after Shep wakes up. Which is why you need an extremely high EMS to have Shepard live at all, and why Shep only lives at the end of Destroy. The EMS determines a victory or a defeat. The galaxy MUST defeat the Reapers conventionally, and they -can- do it. Thannix cannons and the cooperation of the 4000 EMS. The Reapers are SCARED. This is their last attempt to try and find a victory. TIM found a way to control them. Shepard and Anderson found a way to kill them.

Extra cut-scenes MAY explain that the breaking of the indoctrination attempt is the victory. And because Shepard is free in his/her mind, Shepard can then rally the forces of the galaxy (via an empowered speech or something) in order to beat the Reapers. It will be a long, hard battle, but it CAN be explained in only a few cutscenes.

Why are IT naysayers so virulent and pissy?"

There. A way in which IT can still be true even if there is no additional game-play. And yeah. I read your whole post. You seem to take the word of Casey Hudson as the end all be all of what's true about the ME universe, when we all know Casey Hudson hasn't been completely truthful in the past (that or he changed his mind and it just appeared as if he was being untruthful). I'm not saying this is a bad thing. He has every right to protect the secret of the ending, IF there is one. We IT enthusiasts love the word IF. Because we don't like to set things in stone. That's a silly habit to get into.

Another thing: Shepard doesn't have to be on the streets of London for IT to be true, either. That is a heavily agreed upon idea, but it is not a fact, and I personally have never claimed as such. Shepard could have been hallucinating and still have been on the Citadel/Crucible.

The IT theory is amiable (that means flexible). That's the wonderful thing about -theories-. Nothing about a THEORY is set in stone. A theory is constantly discussed and worked over and debated by a lot of people. Is this possible? Is it impossible? What about -this-? Oh nevermind, but what about THIS?

You, however, are setting things in STONE that you have no right to. Using such words as "obviously" when you don't know "OBVIOUSLY" is for sure. You're being super assumptive about a lot of things.

I want to know why IT offends the likes of you. I want to know why the idea strikes you as so abysmally stupid. Because it is not. It's an open discussion about something that is ENTIRELY POSSIBLE, while you claim it is entirely IMPOSSIBLE.

Just gonna call it like it is: unfair.

[MOJO ZOZO-san]

I agree with the thread. As much as I tried to jump on the "maybe its all another dream/indoctrination" bandwagon, that idea also full of holes. However the one thing I don't get is shepard gasping for breathe at the end of the destroy ending hinting that he lives. The catalyst (child) tells you that going this route will destroy ALL synthetics including the geth and EDI. If this is true Shepard was reconstructed in ME2 using his some synthetic technology. Even if he can survive with the synthetic parts in his reconstruction (highly unlikely), then unless someone comes and pulls his body from the Citadel then showing this was pointless.

Plus, I know this argument has been brought up before but unless you have enough food provision and the resources to create new mass relays, species such the Quarians will die from starvation since the can only eat certain food which makes it pointless that you helped them regain their home world. It seems no matter what direction you go there are key parts that wouldn't add up. Unless Bioware has something else planned I can't get what they were going for.

[Pkxm]

IT is still alive even after PAX? i think its time to let it go. rushed game was rushed, bad writing was bad. rip mass effect

[Iconoclaste]

KevShep wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...


Well the WHOLE Citadel, during all 3 games, is "open skies". Read the Codex, and start from there to reach a plausible conclusion. Has Shepard been in a dream each time he was on the Citadel because he could "breathe in space"?

Your not paying attention. At the final scene he is in OPEN space talking to the catalyst(space is a vaccume)!

He has his feet on the ground, on the part of the Citadel he is standing on. We see stars behind him, but also machinery. Why do you start your sentence with "you're not paying attention", by the way? You think I was stupid to believe through all games that every time Shepard is seen against a starry background, he is breathing in outer-space? Did YOU actually pay attention to my answer regarding this? And I believe you can understand the camera angles might show only part of a scene to make it a better shot? Why are there Mass effect fields all around ME3 Universe, except in the end?

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 13 avril 2012 - 02:19 .

[Ariq]

Iconoclaste wrote...

Since when does a laser idoes "explosion" damage? This is the kind of argument that takes credit AWAY from IT.

A) Reapers weapons aren't lasers.
 Anything (whether a laser or otherwise) that causes rapid overheating of a material can cause an explosive response in the material. Most materials can't absorb megajoules of energy harmlessly. The energy must go somewhere.

[balance5050]

I.T. FOREVER!!!! Shepard would never be able to survive the crucible explosion, he was directly underneath it.

[Galifreya]

Jsxdf wrote...

IT is still alive even after PAX? i think its time to let it go. rushed game was rushed, bad writing was bad. rip mass effect

You assume this because as the words left the Dev's lips and he paused, people laughed. However, he described the IT fanbase as "committed." To me, it sounded like he was pausing to get the wording right, and the audience took the "um..." pause to mean, "Yeah, it's a joke."

No. Assumptive audience is assumptive.

Modifié par Gallifreya, 13 avril 2012 - 02:26 .

[Iconoclaste]

MOJO ZOZO-san wrote...

 The catalyst (child) tells you that going this route will destroy ALL synthetics including the geth and EDI. If this is true Shepard was reconstructed in ME2 using his some synthetic technology. Even if he can survive with the synthetic parts in his reconstruction (highly unlikely), then unless someone comes and pulls his body from the Citadel then showing this was pointless.

In the "Destroy" cutscene, you can see the Reapers simply fall to the ground. They do not "explode", and that is all we know. Shepard was served a "Maybe you will die because part of you is synthetic", and all we know is a "maybe".

[KevShep]

Iconoclaste wrote...

This is taken from the link provided on first page :

4. Shepard awakens much, much closer to the Citadel beam than she was when knocked out by the laser blast.

The laser hit between Shepard and the Citadel beam. The way physics and explosions work is that you are propelled away from the source of a blast, not closer to a point beyond the epicenter of the explosion. Sorry, that one was kind of geeky!

Since when does a laser idoes "explosion" damage? This is the kind of argument that takes credit AWAY from IT. Once again, there's nothing wrong to believe Shepard is being "played upon" by Reapers in the end. But to try to justify it by all means, even if unsound reasoning or too easily countered, is counter-productive. The quantity of points supporting IT is not as relevant as their quality.

Have you seen the reapers attack Earth...They are causing all kinds of debris to fly into the air. Whats to say that Harbinger hits that stuff on both sides and lands on shepard?

Are you serious by the way calling us out on "trying to justifiy it by any means"? Look in at yourself. You have made no good points yet. There is plenty of facts that you seem to be over looking...Example: Shepards voice as the catalyst's, or Shepard's dreams and how every time you see the kid you hear a reaper sound.  Like that time you see him in the ducts and you hear a reaper sound and shepard turns to see Anderson then looks back at the kid and he is gone...Man...That kid can move at the speed of light, or he is not real.

[Iconoclaste]

Ariq wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

Since when does a laser idoes "explosion" damage? This is the kind of argument that takes credit AWAY from IT.

A) Reapers weapons aren't lasers.
 Anything (whether a laser or otherwise) that causes rapid overheating of a material can cause an explosive response in the material. Most materials can't absorb megajoules of energy harmlessly. The energy must go somewhere.

How come we don't see that happening when it shoots at other runners for the beam?

As for the term "LASER", I'm not the one who used it in the first polace : it was on the thread provided to support IT. Maybe someone will correct this?

[balance5050]

Gallifreya wrote...

Jsxdf wrote...

IT is still alive even after PAX? i think its time to let it go. rushed game was rushed, bad writing was bad. rip mass effect

You assume this because as the words left the Dev's lips and he paused, people laughed. However, he described the IT fanbase as "commited." To me, it sounded like he was pausing to get the wording right, and the audience took the "um..." pause to mean, "Yeah, it's a joke."

No. Assumptive audience is assumptive.

Just to amend this, when he initially mentioned I.T. in the full video, there was a roaring applause.

[KevShep]

Iconoclaste wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...


Well the WHOLE Citadel, during all 3 games, is "open skies". Read the Codex, and start from there to reach a plausible conclusion. Has Shepard been in a dream each time he was on the Citadel because he could "breathe in space"?

Your not paying attention. At the final scene he is in OPEN space talking to the catalyst(space is a vaccume)!

He has his feet on the ground, on the part of the Citadel he is standing on. We see stars behind him, but also machinery. Why do you start your sentence with "you're not paying attention", by the way? You think I was stupid to believe through all games that every time Shepard is seen against a starry background, he is breathing in outer-space? Did YOU actually pay attention to my answer regarding this? And I believe you can understand the camera angles might show only part of a scene to make it a better shot? Why are there Mass effect fields all around ME3 Universe, except in the end?

Your only guessing that they are there( mass effect fields). At the end if he is on the citadel when he takes a breath then he is dead because there is no POWER to the station therefor there is no air to breath. This means that he is NOT on the citadel and somewhere else.

[Galifreya]

balance5050 wrote...

Gallifreya wrote...

Jsxdf wrote...

IT is still alive even after PAX? i think its time to let it go. rushed game was rushed, bad writing was bad. rip mass effect

You assume this because as the words left the Dev's lips and he paused, people laughed. However, he described the IT fanbase as "commited." To me, it sounded like he was pausing to get the wording right, and the audience took the "um..." pause to mean, "Yeah, it's a joke."

No. Assumptive audience is assumptive.

Just to amend this, when he initially mentioned I.T. in the full video, there was a roaring applause.

Yup. And then they laughed it up. Sheeple.

[Nitsugalego]

majinbuu1307 wrote...

adam32867 wrote...

food for thought
https://docs.google....sle=true&pli=1#

Read your link, organized is good:) but I stil have to disagree. Stuff like them saying "Oh god, they are all gone"  You could just argue that they are far away and can't see shepard  on the ground still alive, Anderson could have very well been knocked into the beam by the blast, or, as he said followed him up, being a single person some people might not spot you from far distances. As for the whole how did he get in front of you? He was beamed to another area, things where moving, shifting, more than one hallway leading to the chasm and then the control panel, things could shift again around him after he got there. Ilusive man was obviously there for a while waiting. He has his ways.

However, Anderson is pretty clear, he said "I followed you up". This statement makes no sense.  When did he "follow you up"? He is nowhere to be seen! If he had said "I got here before you" maybe I would've believed him!

[RxP4IN]

"Thread to end all threads about IT" ----- turns into an IT thread

"I will never let this thread die" ------ so the IT thread to end IT threads won't end? Fail.


OP's logic is about as sub-par as the ME3 ending.

[Iconoclaste]

KevShep wrote...

Have you seen the reapers attack Earth...They are causing all kinds of debris to fly into the air. Whats to say that Harbinger hits that stuff on both sides and lands on shepard?

So, he wasn't knocked down by the laser-thingy, but by "Reapers attacking earth"? You're serious?

KevShep wrote...

Example: Shepards voice as the catalyst's, or Shepard's dreams and how every time you see the kid you hear a reaper sound.  Like that time you see him in the ducts and you hear a reaper sound and shepard turns to see Anderson then looks back at the kid and he is gone...Man...That kid can move at the speed of light, or he is not real.

Kids like to slide. Voice in a vent makes echo. Catalyst needed special voice effect, they chose one. You are too gullible. IT has you desperate for more gameplay to the point every glitch in the game you will see as IT fact. Others have said "grasping at straws". You get the meaning?

[Sisterofshane]

Gallifreya wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Gallifreya wrote...

Jsxdf wrote...

IT is still alive even after PAX? i think its time to let it go. rushed game was rushed, bad writing was bad. rip mass effect

You assume this because as the words left the Dev's lips and he paused, people laughed. However, he described the IT fanbase as "commited." To me, it sounded like he was pausing to get the wording right, and the audience took the "um..." pause to mean, "Yeah, it's a joke."

No. Assumptive audience is assumptive.

Just to amend this, when he initially mentioned I.T. in the full video, there was a roaring applause.

Yup. And then they laughed it up. Sheeple.

Why?  Because they can approach something as disasterous as the ME3 ending with a little bit of creativity, and humility?  I find it damn classy that the IT people at PAX have enough deference to know when to laugh at themselves a little.

[Iconoclaste]

KevShep wrote...

Your only guessing that they are there( mass effect fields). At the end if he is on the citadel when he takes a breath then he is dead because there is no POWER to the station therefor there is no air to breath. This means that he is NOT on the citadel and somewhere else.

You are speculating. Give me proof there is no more power anywhere on the Citadel.

[KevShep]

Iconoclaste wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Have you seen the reapers attack Earth...They are causing all kinds of debris to fly into the air. Whats to say that Harbinger hits that stuff on both sides and lands on shepard?

So, he wasn't knocked down by the laser-thingy, but by "Reapers attacking earth"? You're serious?

KevShep wrote...

Example: Shepards voice as the catalyst's, or Shepard's dreams and how every time you see the kid you hear a reaper sound.  Like that time you see him in the ducts and you hear a reaper sound and shepard turns to see Anderson then looks back at the kid and he is gone...Man...That kid can move at the speed of light, or he is not real.

Kids like to slide. Voice in a vent makes echo. Catalyst needed special voice effect, they chose one. You are too gullible. IT has you desperate for more gameplay to the point every glitch in the game you will see as IT fact. Others have said "grasping at straws". You get the meaning?

You still not looking at WHAT is there!

I dont know how to answer your first part but I was not denying he was knocked out.

The second part is still a unkown for me as well. The kid was right in front of him and to turn around in the ducts and move on all fours without making a sound and disappearing in less then a second is just amazing that you did not notice that.

[KevShep]

Iconoclaste wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Your only guessing that they are there( mass effect fields). At the end if he is on the citadel when he takes a breath then he is dead because there is no POWER to the station therefor there is no air to breath. This means that he is NOT on the citadel and somewhere else.

You are speculating. Give me proof there is no more power anywhere on the Citadel.

The citadel is reaper tech and the destroy option destroys reaper tech! The power that supports the citadel is reaper tech!

Modifié par KevShep, 13 avril 2012 - 02:37 .

[Iconoclaste]

In fact, I think there is no point in arguing a theory where supporters take all nonsense in the game to try to make an intelligent statement about it, but then leave some nonsense out because it doesn't fit the theory. At the beginning, when the theory was proposed, it was kinda fun, because every idea brought by newcomers was easily integrated to it. But now that it has grown with so much speculation and counter-productive rejection of new proposals and ideas to make it sound, it has become tedious. If it still has a chance to gain anything, it might be a little more insight into what's reasonable to expect as "planned" by Bioware, and what' not.

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 13 avril 2012 - 02:36 .

[Nitsugalego]

[quote]Iconoclaste wrote...

[quote]KevShep wrote...

Have you seen the reapers attack Earth...They are causing all kinds of debris to fly into the air. Whats to say that Harbinger hits that stuff on both sides and lands on shepard?[/quote]
So, he wasn't knocked down by the laser-thingy, but by "Reapers attacking earth"? You're serious?

[quote]KevShep wrote...

Example: Shepards voice as the catalyst's, or Shepard's dreams and how every time you see the kid you hear a reaper sound.  Like that time you see him in the ducts and you hear a reaper sound and shepard turns to see Anderson then looks back at the kid and he is gone...Man...That kid can move at the speed of light, or he is not real.
[quote]Kids like to slide. Voice in a vent makes echo. Catalyst needed special voice effect, they chose one. You are too gullible. IT has you desperate for more gameplay to the point every glitch in the game you will see as IT fact. Others have said "grasping at straws". You get the meaning?


[/quote]

1)Do you expect me to believe that "echo" is the real source of the obvious Repear sound?
2)I'm sorry but "kids like to slide" is not a valid argument
3)These are only a few of the things that hint indoctrination ( I can tell you more if you want)
4)Most people that support IT are not "desperate for more gameplay", what we actually want to see is a decent and worthy ending for the saga we love so much . 

Modifié par Nitsugalego, 13 avril 2012 - 02:37 .

[balance5050]

RxP4IN wrote...

"Thread to end all threads about IT" ----- turns into an IT thread

"I will never let this thread die" ------ so the IT thread to end IT threads won't end? Fail.


OP's logic is about as sub-par as the ME3 ending.

This

[Galifreya]

Sisterofshane wrote...

Gallifreya wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Gallifreya wrote...

Jsxdf wrote...

IT is still alive even after PAX? i think its time to let it go. rushed game was rushed, bad writing was bad. rip mass effect

You assume this because as the words left the Dev's lips and he paused, people laughed. However, he described the IT fanbase as "commited." To me, it sounded like he was pausing to get the wording right, and the audience took the "um..." pause to mean, "Yeah, it's a joke."

No. Assumptive audience is assumptive.

Just to amend this, when he initially mentioned I.T. in the full video, there was a roaring applause.

Yup. And then they laughed it up. Sheeple.

Why?  Because they can approach something as disasterous as the ME3 ending with a little bit of creativity, and humility?  I find it damn classy that the IT people at PAX have enough deference to know when to laugh at themselves a little.

Nope. Because they cheered the hell out of it, and then the second a developer MIGHT have something dispariging to say about it, they flipped and laughed like it was a joke. Maybe I'm wrong, but it just seemed flip-floppy.

[Iconoclaste]

KevShep wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Your only guessing that they are there( mass effect fields). At the end if he is on the citadel when he takes a breath then he is dead because there is no POWER to the station therefor there is no air to breath. This means that he is NOT on the citadel and somewhere else.

You are speculating. Give me proof there is no more power anywhere on the Citadel.

The relay is reaper tech and the destroy option destroys reaper tech! The power that supports the citadel is reaper tech!

My guess and limited speculation on that point is that, since so many species populated it, they might as well have made customisations of their own. The weapons in the soldiers hands have "mass effect" in them, but we don't see anything happening to them.

But the fact is : they don't show us Shepard's face. That is cheap. Many parts of the endings were simply badly rendered, to say this part was intentional and this part was not is too risky business to say IT has found it'sa definitive form and timeline. No one has to agree, of course.