448 réponses à ce sujet

[balance5050]

 Yep, Shepard could totally survive the gigantc expolsion of the crucible directly above his head<_<.

C'mon lets use common sense before we get ahead of ourselves.

[MassEffectReckoner]

Blue ending was a indoctrination. You cant control wats already controling you.

[Iconoclaste]

DevShep wrote......

Fact4) Shepard is dreaming in alot of the game. The last 10 minutes are out of place(like a dream)!

Not the best evidence at all. And I already answered this, maybe you were not paying attention?

The devs made a mistake with that "slo-mo" effect at the base of the "beam", but they decided to leave it as is because they liked the effect, nothing more. Once Shepard is on the Citadel, he's burned and injured, he's stumbling and bleeding. Since it's "just a dream", why doesn't he just run around instead? Or fly? Why not? Reapers want him to have a "realistic dream"? Then why did they show him anything relating to Anderson that might have kicked Shepard out of his dream? Anderson never pushed Shepard towards stopping the fight! Why would the Reapers do that, supposed they "control" the dream? If they do not control it, then go back to my previous sentences.

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 13 avril 2012 - 04:42 .

[Iconoclaste]

balance5050 wrote...

Yep, Shepard could totally survive the gigantc expolsion of the crucible directly above his head{smilie}.

C'mon lets use common sense before we get ahead of ourselves.

Iconoclaste wrote...

Pushing forward...

DevShep wrote...

Fact 1) Catalyst voice...IS...Shepards in the back ground!
Fact2) The bricks around shepard are GRAY (like the ones in London).
Fact3) Shepard is NOT on the citadel when He/She takes a breath because the citadel is powered by Reaper tech and is destroyed in the destroy option so hes/she is breathing in a vaccume with no hemlet.
Fact4) Shepard is dreaming in alot of the game. The last 10 minutes are out of place(like a dream)!
Fact5) Everything revolves around the "kid" and for an unknown reason( and here is the something you overlooked) and unexplaned reason the "kid" looks like the ones from his/her dreams!

Just describe the "Red explosions" from when Shepard shoots at the red conduit, to the moment we see the Citadel's arms drifting apart. We will see if you are "paying attention".

[Iconoclaste]

I already covered fact 5, but here it is again...

Erield wrote...

Fact 5) Everything does notrevolve around the "kid."  There's the kid in Shep's dreams, which is an obvious stand-in for Shepard's guilt of abandoning Earth.  If everything revolved around the kid, he'd have more than 15 minutes of screen-time throughout the game.  This "fact" of yours is harder to refute than the others because I have no idea what you're actually trying to say here.

I can help you with this one easily.

It is shown in ME2, when Shepard's team is going for the Reaper IFF on a derelict Reaper, that the team of scientists there were slowly getting "indoctrinated". The many "terminals" on the Reaper showed videos of scientists seeing things, ghostly appearances, and even "sharing" other's dreams and memories.

I don't think it's debated that the Reapers have a relatively good "access" to someone's memories and thoughts. It is the very basis of "indoctrination". When Shepard sees the child getting killed in the beginning, it has him emotionally "marked" for the rest of the game. The Reapers have access to that, I don't have a slightest doubt about it. So they used this "memory" to try to get Shepard to accept more easily the Catalyst's proposals. But I am far from believing that the kid in the beginning was, in fact, a Reaper-induced apparition. I could be, still, as well as it could not. The speculated "facts" supporting a Reaper influence that strong in the beginning is too tenuous for me to accept this as "evidence".

[balance5050]

Iconoclaste wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

Fact4) Shepard is dreaming in alot of the game. The last 10 minutes are out of place(like a dream)!

Not the best evidence at all. And I already answered this, maybe you were not paying attention?

The devs made a mistake with that "slo-mo" effect at the base of the "beam", but they decided to leave it as is because they liked the effect, nothing more. Once Shepard is on the Citadel, he's burned and injured, he's stumbling and bleeding. Since it's "just a dream", why doesn't he just run around instead? Or fly? Why not? Reapers want him to have a "realistic dream"? Then why did they show him anything relating to Anderson that might have kicked Shepard out of his dream? Anderson never pushed Shepard towards stopping the fight! Why would the Reapers do that, supposed they "control" the dream? If they do not control it, then go back to my previous sentences.

Someone needs to watch Inception, and Black Swan, and The Matrix.

Anyway, where do you get the gaul to say things like "The devs made a mistake with that "slo-mo" effect at the base of the "beam", but they decided to leave it as is because they liked the effect"?

You have no clue what you are talking about when you say those things so it would be much appreciated if would stop lying to everyone and insulting our intelligence. Thank you.

Modifié par balance5050, 13 avril 2012 - 04:46 .

[Iconoclaste]

balance5050 wrote...

Anyway, where do you get the gaul to say things like "
The devs made a mistake with that "slo-mo" effect at the base of the "beam", but they decided to leave it as is because they liked the effect"?

You have no clue what you are talking about when you say those things so it would be much appreciated if would stop lying to everyone and insulting our intelligence. Thank you.

If I can find the link to that, you will see for yourself "from the horse's mouth". Now, care to describe the red explosions sequence?

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 13 avril 2012 - 04:48 .

[Lokanaiya]

I don't agree with your conclusion there, but I'll leave that to others to argue. I would like to point out that, even if you did prove that Shepard was in Citadel rubble, there's still TONS of evidence and odd details out there to support IT. A theory is a conclusion based on many facts all put together. If the alive scene and conclusion that it was London was the only evidence to support IT, then it would definitely count as "grasping at straws." But there are still lots of unexplained things out there (how Shepard survived the Harbinger's laser, why he would be closer to the beam than before, why Harbinger flew off when he has shown himself to be very genre-savvy previously, where are your squadmates when you wake up, etc., and that's before you even get into the Citadel!) and disproving one does not disprove the others, and certainly does not disprove IT. You're going to have to work a lot harder to accomplish that.

Also, Jessica has previously said that the Normandy crashed on Mars in the last scene. Just so you know.

Edite for "clarification" because I'm exhausted.

Modifié par Lokanaiya, 13 avril 2012 - 04:54 .

[balance5050]

Iconoclaste wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Anyway, where do you get the gaul to say things like "
The devs made a mistake with that "slo-mo" effect at the base of the "beam", but they decided to leave it as is because they liked the effect"?

You have no clue what you are talking about when you say those things so it would be much appreciated if would stop lying to everyone and insulting our intelligence. Thank you.

If I can find the link to that, you will see for yourself "from the horse's mouth". Now, care to describe the red explosions sequence?

I dare you to find that link^_^

Didn't you play the game? Here's a video of the red ending for you;)

[Bill Casey]

Iconoclaste wrote...

It is shown in ME2, when Shepard's team is going for the Reaper IFF on a derelict Reaper, that the team of scientists there were slowly getting "indoctrinated". The many "terminals" on the Reaper showed videos of scientists seeing things, ghostly appearances, and even "sharing" other's dreams and memories

Surely a better example would be the Arrival DLC, where the scientists and guards are having recurring nightmares ever since Object Rho was brought on board?

[Iconoclaste]

Lokanaiya wrote...

I don't agree with your conclusion there, but I'll leave that to others to argue. I would like to point out that, even if you did prove that Shepard was in Citadel rubble, there's still TONS of evidence and odd details out there to support IT. A theory is a conclusion based on many facts all put together. If the alive scene and conclusion that it was London was the only evidence to support IT, then it would definitely count as "grasping at straws." But there are still lots of unexplained things out there (how Shepard survived the Harbinger's laser, why he would be closer to the beam than before, why Harbinger flew off when he has shown himself to be very genre-savvy previously, where are your squadmates when you wake up, etc., and that's before you even get into the Citadel!) and disproving one does not disprove the others, and certainly does not disprove IT. You're going to have to work a lot harder to accomplish that.

Also, Jessica has previously said that the Normandy crashed on Mars in the last scene. Just so you know.

Edite for "clarification" because I'm exhausted.

Again quantity of hints does not make quality evidence. I will not engage them 1 by 1, nobody here wants to do that, especially since it's mostly speculative evidence.

I know about the Merizan statement. I don't really care about what she said or said not : I based my assumptions on game content. Even flawed, at face value, the Destroy ending still makes sense to some amount. IT can still make sense to some amount, but not in all its details and timeline.

[Iconoclaste]

Bill Casey wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

It is shown in ME2, when Shepard's team is going for the Reaper IFF on a derelict Reaper, that the team of scientists there were slowly getting "indoctrinated". The many "terminals" on the Reaper showed videos of scientists seeing things, ghostly appearances, and even "sharing" other's dreams and memories

Surely a better example would be the Arrival DLC, where the scientists and guards are having recurring nightmares ever since Object Rho was brought on board?

Another example, yes. But the point was to show how the Catalyst / Reapers could suggest the kid's image to Shepard from his own memory.

[Iconoclaste]

balance5050 wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Anyway, where do you get the gaul to say things like "
The devs made a mistake with that "slo-mo" effect at the base of the "beam", but they decided to leave it as is because they liked the effect"?

You have no clue what you are talking about when you say those things so it would be much appreciated if would stop lying to everyone and insulting our intelligence. Thank you.

If I can find the link to that, you will see for yourself "from the horse's mouth". Now, care to describe the red explosions sequence?

I dare you to find that link^_^

Didn't you play the game? Here's a video of the red ending for you;)

End of the rope, already? I thought you would try to exercise your observation skills. Too bad. I even took pictures out from the red ending video to put on another thread where you were. You saw it all. Made you furious? Not my problem.

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 13 avril 2012 - 05:08 .

[Zix13]

Sorry, but why are you shooting the tube/ jumping into a green death ray / grabbing little lightning globes? You can't make sense of a symbolic ending in a literal game. IT does make more narrative sense than a literal interpretation of the ending. The reason IT is obviously false is that it means an incomplete game was shipped. However, fixing it in that way would be the easiest way to salvage the ending without removing it.

[balance5050]

Iconoclaste wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Anyway, where do you get the gaul to say things like "
The devs made a mistake with that "slo-mo" effect at the base of the "beam", but they decided to leave it as is because they liked the effect"?

You have no clue what you are talking about when you say those things so it would be much appreciated if would stop lying to everyone and insulting our intelligence. Thank you.

If I can find the link to that, you will see for yourself "from the horse's mouth". Now, care to describe the red explosions sequence?

I dare you to find that link^_^

Didn't you play the game? Here's a video of the red ending for you;)

End of the rope, already? I thought you would try to exercise your observation skills. Too bad. I even took pictures out from the red ending video to put on another thread where you were. You saw it all. Made you furious? Not my problem.

What would be the point of describing the red ending to you? You're a liar. We see the crucible explode right after it shoots its lazer.

[Iconoclaste]

Zix13 wrote...

Sorry, but why are you shooting the tube/ jumping into a green death ray / grabbing little lightning globes? You can't make sense of a symbolic ending in a literal game. IT does make more narrative sense than a literal interpretation of the ending. The reason IT is obviously false is that it means an incomplete game was shipped. However, fixing it in that way would be the easiest way to salvage the ending without removing it.

Agreed. But there's still a "normal" way out with Shep_alive ending, possibly, without IT. The endings were what they were, sadly.

[rickelmo]

They made the ending with the intent purpose of having speculation. So there really is no right or wrong answer to what the ending means. They didn't even know what they really wanted. So how can we guess our way to the ending's meaning. I believed the Indoc. Theory but still know I'm most likely wrong. So let people just enjoy what they got and stop telling them what everything really means. That's what the Extended Cut is for. And man I hope it makes that ending at least a little bit better.

[Skvindt]

I found the Indoctrination Theory hard to believe once Ray Muzyka issued that PR statement back in March.

If you have to bring the CEO of the company out for "damage control", that's a huge indicator that something didn't go as planned.  

There is no twist.  There is no trick.  There isn't a secret DLC ending planned all along that would make Mass Effect 3 go down as one of the most jaw-droppingly insane mind-****s of all time.

The reality is simple: This is how they wanted the trilogy to be concluded, and they did not anticipate the sheer backlash that it would generate.

Modifié par SRX, 13 avril 2012 - 05:13 .

[Iconoclaste]

balance5050 wrote...

What would be the point of describing the red ending to you? You're a liar. We see the crucible explode right after it shoots its lazer.

You still have a chance to proove me wrong. Your call.

[balance5050]

SRX wrote...

 I found the Indoctrination Theory hard to believe once Ray Muzyka made that PR statement back in March.
If you have to bring the CEO of the company out for "damage control", that's a huge indicator that something didn't go as planned.  

There is no twist.  There is no trick.  There isn't a secret DLC ending planned all along that would make Mass Effect 3 go down as one of the most jaw-droppingly insane mind-****s of all time.

The reality is simple: This is how they wanted the trilogy to be concluded, and they did not anticipate the sheer backlash that it would generate.

Sorry but they wanted speculation out of the endings and even if the they never make a DLC to conclude it, it's a completly legitimate way to interpret the ending, and probably always will be.

[Iconoclaste]

Iconoclaste wrote...

macrocarl wrote...

I've posted a lot but that doesn't mean any one read my posts previously. Shep could be still on the Citadel. In fact most of what Shep saw may have happened. But how Shep perceived the events may have been effected by IT (or IDT).
Meaning that yes, he was on the Citadel, yes he saw TIM and Anderson get killed, yes he saw Starkid (secretly Harby though.....maybe and yes he destroyed, merged, controlled the Reapers........) but saw everything happen differently because he was *also* living the effects of indoc.
If BW's extended cut actually does what I think it will, it will be open enough to still be sen as IT, literal and theories in between. If we get a prologue with what happens to everyone then wouldn't IT's theory still be supported if it's all a dream? As in it's an extended, more fleshed out dream? Yet, if you do not support IT, then you get to see a closure and your literal read is supported. This will actually feed both 'camps' and stay brilliant me thinks.
Sorry if my thoughts are jumbled, I am drinking wine.

That is exactly my point.

[Lokanaiya]

Iconoclaste wrote...

DevShep wrote...

Fact3) Shepard is NOT on the citadel when He/She takes a breath because the citadel is powered by Reaper tech and is destroyed in the destroy option so hes/she is breathing in a vaccume with no hemlet.

We don't even see his head, how can anyone see he's wearing a helmet or not?

Nevertheless, where can we see the Citadel being "destroyed", to a point survival on any of its parts is impossible? Is EZO "Reaper tech"? Or juste a material found randomly around the galaxy? If the Reapers did not explode on Earth (they just fall like jellyfish), why should the Citadel be in a different state?

1. Shepard wasn't wearing a helmet at any time after Harbinger hit him with the beam, when the dream is supposed to start, even if he was before. How could he be wearing a helmet in the breath scene if the ending was real? I suppose it came from the same place as the infinite ammo?

2. The Citadel has been stated to be Reaper tech multiple times, both by Vigil and Starbrat himself.

[balance5050]

Iconoclaste wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

What would be the point of describing the red ending to you? You're a liar. We see the crucible explode right after it shoots its lazer.

You still have a chance to proove me wrong. Your call.

I already did bro, I destroyed your credability because you claimed to know why they made certain decisions and you couldn't back up your claims^_^

[balance5050]

Iconoclaste wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

macrocarl wrote...

I've posted a lot but that doesn't mean any one read my posts previously. Shep could be still on the Citadel. In fact most of what Shep saw may have happened. But how Shep perceived the events may have been effected by IT (or IDT).
Meaning that yes, he was on the Citadel, yes he saw TIM and Anderson get killed, yes he saw Starkid (secretly Harby though.....maybe and yes he destroyed, merged, controlled the Reapers........) but saw everything happen differently because he was *also* living the effects of indoc.
If BW's extended cut actually does what I think it will, it will be open enough to still be sen as IT, literal and theories in between. If we get a prologue with what happens to everyone then wouldn't IT's theory still be supported if it's all a dream? As in it's an extended, more fleshed out dream? Yet, if you do not support IT, then you get to see a closure and your literal read is supported. This will actually feed both 'camps' and stay brilliant me thinks.
Sorry if my thoughts are jumbled, I am drinking wine.

That is exactly my point.

Yes "The truth" is going to be a hybrid of IDT and face value.

[Iconoclaste]

Lokanaiya wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

DevShep wrote...

Fact3) Shepard is NOT on the citadel when He/She takes a breath because the citadel is powered by Reaper tech and is destroyed in the destroy option so hes/she is breathing in a vaccume with no hemlet.

We don't even see his head, how can anyone see he's wearing a helmet or not?

Nevertheless, where can we see the Citadel being "destroyed", to a point survival on any of its parts is impossible? Is EZO "Reaper tech"? Or juste a material found randomly around the galaxy? If the Reapers did not explode on Earth (they just fall like jellyfish), why should the Citadel be in a different state?

1. Shepard wasn't wearing a helmet at any time after Harbinger hit him with the beam, when the dream is supposed to start, even if he was before. How could he be wearing a helmet in the breath scene if the ending was real? I suppose it came from the same place as the infinite ammo?

2. The Citadel has been stated to be Reaper tech multiple times, both by Vigil and Starbrat himself.

Don't try having me run in circles. I already addressed those precisely, even without helmet there is no proof that Shepard is in "space" with "nothing to breathe", in fact we are shown the exact contrary. Taking an actual scene and making it something we don't see with speculation does not make a strong evidence. If IT relies on leaps of faith like the whole endings with plot holes and broken storyline, than it is simply not "better".