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[Litany of Fury]

I thought it was heavily implied that Hackett did an awful lot behind the scenes of the trial to tip it in Shepard's favour alongside Anderson. By the time the 'trial' actually happens, the Admirals are asking Shepard for help rather than actually putting him on trial, which is a comple 180 degree turn from their original intent. I reckon it'd take a man with an awful lot of pull in the Alliance to pull something like that off - someone like Admiral Hackett.

Anderson's an Admiral as well, but he probably has nowhere near as much political clout as Hackett.

I also like the idea of Cerberus actually having three leaders per its namesake, but Hackett is just too outlandish for one of them. After all, if one of their leaders is very, very high up the chain in the one power that can effectively stop them, how come they ever get stopped at all? Why would said leader do everything in his power to damage or cripple his own organisation?

Modifié par Litany of Fury, 13 avril 2012 - 08:43 .

[Litany of Fury]

Double post, oops.

Modifié par Litany of Fury, 13 avril 2012 - 08:43 .

[Mirdarion]

By the way: Cerberus is just a metaphor. EDI made it clear that TIM is the one and only man in control of Cerberus. He tells the cells what to do. That also implicates that there is no-one besides him as he couldn't be fully in charge this way.
All evidence you have come up with so far, OP, are easily overthrown. It simply makes less sense than the ME3 endings. Applause for accomplishing that task. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm back to the Intoxication Theory...

Edit: I have the feeling I've gone too far with the IT (Intoxication Theory, not that weird, unproven and totally senseless Indoctrination Theory everone is talking about). Don't drink and DrrrrrWrite!

Modifié par Mirdarion, 13 avril 2012 - 09:39 .

[MisterJB]

Lincoln MuaDib wrote...

Why did Hackett say nothing?
The ONE man that could say, "I sent her."
The ONE man who could have had ALL charges dropped.
Says NOTHING.

Let me get this straight.

You want Hacket, an Alliance Admiral, to admit that he sent Shepard on a secret mission to batarian space that ended up in the destruction of said batarian space?

Shepard is a scapegoat for the Alliance to prevent a war with the batarians.

[redbaron76]

@ OP
You have no proof of your theory. Admiral Steven Hackett is not required to defend commander shepard in his trial. Admiral Hackett issued classified orders and there fore is not required to speak to the facts of mission. Second Admiral Hackett is CNO of Systems navy and therefore does not defend each individual officer. And Third and final proof he orders shepard to attack cerberus bases repeatedly.

[Iodine]

What ever happened to the "Cerberus didn't actually go rogue" plausible deniability theories? I remember that Kahoku discovered via info from the Shadow Broker that Cerberus was originally just an Alliance black ops branch. The only "evidence" I recall seeing that Cerberus went rogue was that they killed Kahoku's Marines and Kahoku himself shortly after he discovered the connection, which would make sense since he started asking questions and threatening the secrecy/deniability of the Alliance's link to Cerberus.

I think I remember reading/hearing somewhere in ME1 or ME2 that one of the games that even before they supposedly went rogue, Cerberus operatives weren't informed they were part of the Alliance, and only a couple top ranking officers of each had any clue of the connection. Did anything every get expanded on about that LotSB Shadow Broker video clip of a Cerberus and Alliance officer meeting? (can't remember if it visible/obvious who it was or not)

Was there any actually "strong" evidence that Cerberus truly went rogue? Or did people just get tired of debating the theory without any new evidence either way?

Edit: This seems to have been the biggest thread on the theory, if anyone cares. It's a Zulu thread, but plenty of other people discussing/debating <_< http://social.biowar...5/index/1600890

Modifié par Iodine, 13 avril 2012 - 10:09 .

[DxWill103]

But.. Coats is the one who says no one made it to the beam. Presumably, the only way Hackett knows someone made it to the beam at all is because the arms open.

Also, interesting forum category to make this in.

Also, interesting theory but... if this were the case, wouldn't we have found out in the story at some point? Isn't that the point of stories? To tell them? If Hackett was Cerberus, then at some point before the game ended it would have been revealed. Since it never was, the theory ultimately has about as much plausibility as any other theory that never happened in the game.

[silverstreakusa]

Litany of Fury wrote...

I thought it was heavily implied that Hackett did an awful lot behind the scenes of the trial to tip it in Shepard's favour alongside Anderson. By the time the 'trial' actually happens, the Admirals are asking Shepard for help rather than actually putting him on trial, which is a comple 180 degree turn from their original intent. I reckon it'd take a man with an awful lot of pull in the Alliance to pull something like that off - someone like Admiral Hackett.

Anderson's an Admiral as well, but he probably has nowhere near as much political clout as Hackett.

I also like the idea of Cerberus actually having three leaders per its namesake, but Hackett is just too outlandish for one of them. After all, if one of their leaders is very, very high up the chain in the one power that can effectively stop them, how come they ever get stopped at all? Why would said leader do everything in his power to damage or cripple his own organisation?

this is mass effect not metal gear.  hacket isnt big boss this isnt mission intrude n313 outerheaven ect   its been done....

[ShadowOptik]

 Maybe this is for the real enemies of Mass Effect 4?

[Keithernet]

Cerberus started as an Alliance black ops group. They established extraordinary amounts of access before going rouge. It would of been easy for them to get access to the Luna VI.

Hackett made it clear to Shepard that he would have to face the consequences of the mission all in an effort to prevent a crippling war with the Batarians.

Good try! But the evidence just doesn't add up.

[Whole Particle]

All-a-Mort wrote...

What the hell has this got to do with Gameplay, Strategies and Builds? Oh yeah, nothing.

My first thought too.

It's a nice theory OP, but why not place it in the Story and Campaign Forum?

Iodine wrote...

Was there any actually "strong" evidence that Cerberus truly went rogue? Or did people just get tired of debating the theory without any new evidence either way?

Edit: This seems to have been the biggest thread on the theory, if anyone cares. It's a Zulu thread, but plenty of other people discussing/debating {smilie} http://social.biowar...5/index/1600890

I was one of the ones that created a thread asking such Q's as those a year or so ago, but Zulu was the one who definitely went into the greatest detail and put a great amount of time and effort formulating those theories, IMO.

BTW, wonder whatever happened to him? I'd be rather interested in hearing his thoughts on ME3's ending.

Modifié par Whole Particle, 14 avril 2012 - 05:07 .

[Iodine]

Whole Particle wrote...
I was one of the ones that created a thread asking such Q's as those a year or so ago, but Zulu was the one who definitely went into the greatest detail and put a great amount of time and effort formulating those theories, IMO.

Zulu was the one who went into the greatest detail on EVERY theory.

BTW, wonder whatever happened to him? I'd be rather interested in hearing his thoughts on ME3's ending.

I must admit, when I dug up that link, I saw his long listing of "related theories" in the bottom of every theory post. I went through most of them just to see if there were any he was uncannily right about for ME3 (a few were partially right, but nothing amazingly accurate that I saw ).

[lmxar]

 HEY HACKETT,



YEA U R

[incinerator950]

DxWill103 wrote...

But.. Coats is the one who says no one made it to the beam. Presumably, the only way Hackett knows someone made it to the beam at all is because the arms open.

Also, interesting forum category to make this in.

Also, interesting theory but... if this were the case, wouldn't we have found out in the story at some point? Isn't that the point of stories? To tell them? If Hackett was Cerberus, then at some point before the game ended it would have been revealed. Since it never was, the theory ultimately has about as much plausibility as any other theory that never happened in the game.

Quite true.  Not only that, but we've established for more than three months that the Trial already happened.  What you had was a Committee that not only knew about the Reapers, needed to hear that they're about to get their ass kicked, for more movie effect.  

Just like the Reaper Destroyer not taking out the Normandy.  Just like TIM turning around and surprise indoctrinated.  

[Lincoln MuaDib]

My favorite quote so far-
"Clearly you need help. No sane human would find Hacket to be annoying. He is awesome."

Isn't that the next evolutionary step up from "I am rubber, you are glue, bounces off me and sticks to you"?

In any case, I'm putting forward an idea that has plenty of plot holes.

Hell, if BioWare can have massive plot holes and call the result Artistic Integrity, I claim the same!

I is an artist, hur hur!

Nah, but seriously though. The concept is just one I'm batting around as a theory, it's not infallible.

I like it though.

[Lincoln MuaDib]

Incinerator950 said...
What you had was a Committee that not only knew about the Reapers, needed to hear that they're about to get their ass kicked, for more movie effect.

The trial was like,
"Reapers? Rubbish, Shepard!"
"Reapers? Liar!"
"Reapers? As if."

"Reapers!!!! Save us, Shepard!"

Aw, you all died, shaaaaaame....

[TRISTAN WERBE]

bull****

[someone else]

...and if you examine frames 157-238 of the Zapruder film, you can see what appears to be a youthful Hackett just to the right of the baby carriage on the grassy knoll in Dealy Plaza ... Confirmation!

[Mirdarion]

lmxar wrote...

 HEY HACKETT,

Hurp Durp 

[Veil_of_Maya]

You make a good argument, but I really doubt it...

[Mirdarion]

Veil_of_Maya wrote...

You make a good argument, but I really doubt it...

Uhm, actually none of his arguments made sense, as I proved in my post on the first page. Or in other words: "Just because you can't see it, it doesn't have to be invisible!"

[Lincoln MuaDib]

Wow Mirdarion, you discovered plot holes in the theory I put forward?

Well, I guess you've just proved...something, I guess?

I would give you a cookie, but meh, can't be bothered.

But if you're so desperate for attention that you'd put in phrases like
"none of his arguments made sense, as I proved in my post"
Then you seem unaware of 2 fairly salient points.

1. Just because you "prove" something to yourself doesn't mean it's "proven". As in- still just your opinion, dude.
2. I really don't care whether you agree with me. It actually doesn't matter if anyone agrees with me, people will believe what they want to.

As the battle between the two Tribes (Retake the Ending Tribe and the The Ending Must Not Be Changed Tribe) so precisely illustrates.

In any case, just postulations. Don't agree?

Feel free.

You can even print up the transcript and run to your Daddy so he can put it on the fridge and proudly show it off when Uncle Arthur turns up for tea, bringing you the latest Transformer toy.

[Lincoln MuaDib]

In other words- it's a possibility that exists and can be canon, if you wish.

Like Indoctrination.

[Mirdarion]

Lincoln MuaDib wrote...

Wow Mirdarion, you discovered plot holes in the theory I put forward?

Well, I guess you've just proved...something, I guess?

I would give you a cookie, but meh, can't be bothered.

No need for being sarcastic. I was polite and civil, would be great if you could be as well.

Lincoln MuaDib wrote...

But if you're so desperate for attention that you'd put in phrases like 
"none of his arguments made sense, as I proved in my post"
Then you seem unaware of 2 fairly salient points.

1. Just because you "prove" something to yourself doesn't mean it's "proven". As in- still just your opinion, dude. 
2. I really don't care whether you agree with me. It actually doesn't matter if anyone agrees with me, people will believe what they want to.

I'm not desperate for attention, I just tried to point out that every single one of your important arguments is clearly shown to be invalid by the games themselfs.
And as stated above: I didn't prove these arguments to myself. You gave arguments for something, and by posting them you made them available for public discussion. If I had proven something to myself I wouldn't have posted it. I would have just kept it for myself. And by using facts from the games we both tried to go beyond our opinion, to show that there is (or in my case is not) something that is only (or not) visible if you put the parts together in a right way. Otherwise you wouldn't have written a theory but a mere story.

This is also why your second "point" turns your words against you. You said I am desperate for attention. Why, tell me, would you post your theory if you weren't interested in the agreement of others? I don't think you're acting the same way when you go outside by just saying something to people you don't know in the park and walking away without listening to whatever they might say.

I don't want to make you believe anything I have written. You have your free will and I have mine, that is something humanity is believed to have learned by now mostly. What I wanted to do is to show that your theory - not your opinion! - cannot only not be proven by the facts given by the games but also is proven to be wrong. That does not negate your opinion, but it makes your theory impossible to be true (from my point of view given the arguments I used). You can still believe it though, I never wanted to stop you from doing so, but it stays a believe this way.

Lincoln MuaDib wrote...

In any case, just postulations. Don't agree?

Feel free. 

You can even print up the transcript and run to your Daddy so he can put it on the fridge and proudly show it off when Uncle Arthur turns up for tea, bringing you the latest Transformer toy.

Now you're mixing up two different things: A Theory is a model that works for every scenario until proven wrong. A postulate is a statement which is so important to be true it can't be proven wrong. 
For example the human rights, derived from the natural rights postulate the right of every human to live. That is a base that can't be proven wrong with arguments as it necessary to be true for the whole construction would crash if not.
If you want to postulate your above theory you must not prove it. You could just say "Hacket is a member of Cerberus" and build the rest around that. Then your arguments (not those that are negatet by the games themself) actually can make sense because Hacket would have a reason for his actions (would be a nice ground for a fanfiction). But you did it the other way around and mixed it up. With your arguments you wanted to prove that Hacket is part of Cerberus while at the same time exactly this "goal" was the base of your arguments. This is the same as if I said "1+1=3 if 3=1+1".


And for that last part: I stayed civil. Okay, I admit, saying that every single one of your arguments is senseless is rude, but I didn't get personal. If you can't accept others to critically answer to your posts you missed the whole meaning of a forum in general.


P.S.: Give me arguments that can't be proven wrong with informations taken from the games and I can't say a thing against your theory. In this case I could do nothing but accept it as proven unless I want to appear childish, though I still can believe that it is wrong...

Modifié par Mirdarion, 14 avril 2012 - 09:15 .

[Adhal]

Lincoln MuaDib wrote...

Neither.

Just putting the pieces together in one possible configuration.

As Mass Effect is so full of choices, even if you don't see this, this is one possible canon.

If you disagree, I ask-

WHY did Hackett not defend Shepard at trial?
HOW did Cerberus get their hands on proto-EDI?
WHO alerted Cerberus to Kahoku?

Plausible deniability.

If Hackett said he sent Shepard then the Batarians declare all out war on the Alliance.

Hackett explains this before the mission.

Hackett gets it, Shepard gets it, you don't.