167 réponses à ce sujet

[Raseri]

As the subject says, the Alliance military ranks got a little fubar'd since ME1.  Consider the following, which are the listed ranks from ME1 and exactly duplicated on the Mass Effect wiki:

ENLISTED

• Serviceman 3rd class/Private 2nd class
• Serviceman 2nd class/Private 1st class
• Serviceman 1st class/Corporal

NCOs

• Service Chief
• Gunnery Chief
• Operations Chief

OFFICERS

• 2nd Lieutenant
• 1st Lieutenant
• Staff Lieutenant
• Lieutenant Commander
• Staff Commander
• Captain/Major
• Rear Admiral/General
• Admiral
• Fleet Admiral

The above ranks show Major as being higher than both Lieutenant Cmdr and Staff Cmdr.   In our current military, Major (from Marines, Army or Air Force) is equivalent to Lieutenant Cmdr (Navy...and yes this is the same or similar to nearly all NATO forces).  Now consider that in Mass Effect, Shepard is a Commander, which is not even listed but that's ok because even a Lt. Commander (or Staff Cmdr) would be shortened to Cmdr when referred to, unless by a superior who was dressing them down or being very formal.

Finally, at the beginning of the game, if Kaidan is alive, you find out he has been promoted to Major.  By the above list, he would be higher ranking than ANY officer of only Commander rank, and equal to a Naval Captain (which Anderson was in the first Mass Effect).  Kaidan outranks Shepard, plain and simple, or the change in Alliance ranks was never put into the game at any point past ME1. 

The kicker?  Towards the end of the game, on 6 separate occasions, there were military giving left handed salutes.  I'm left handed in real life, but in NO military is a left handed salute acceptable.  So what gives?  QA dropper the ball on the salutes and on the ranks.  Sorry, as former military for a lot of years, this irks me.

[Giskler]

So if a General from the Army comes on board a frigate hes suddenly in charge and the Commander has to salute him first?

I'm not a military buff, but I thought everyone has to salute the officer in command of a vessel first when they are on board it regardless of their difference in rank.

[-Skorpious-]

I'm not even in the military and I was bothered when Shepard off all people gave a left handed salute. Its kinda sad considering this was brought up in the forums during ME2's release and acknowledged by a developer.

Modifié par -Skorpious-, 13 avril 2012 - 07:06 .

[Raseri]

Giskler wrote...

So if a General from the Army comes on board a frigate hes suddenly in charge and the Commander has to salute him first?

I'm not a military buff, but I thought everyone has to salute the officer in command of a vessel first when they are on board it regardless of their difference in rank.

To answer your question simply: Yes, the captain of a frigate would salute first any officer that came on board of superior rank, and the yeoman (or whatever, I wasn't Navy) would call the deck to attention, which would include the Captain of the ship, who would then 'report' to the senior officer.   (Although it would be very rare outside of full scale war for an Army officer of any General rank to be on a ship )

At least in the American military, the ONLY time a senior officer salutes someone junior to them *first* is if the junior soldier is wearing a Medal of Honor.  I don't know if other western militaries have a similar rule for their highest award or not.

[Ruthac_Arus]

As annoying as the other stuff may be, Hackett sends Shepard a message right away after leaving Earth stating he/she has operational command. The rank issue is a non-issue in this case.

[elfshepard]

I read an argument on this topic on another thread and basically people said that because Shepard is a Spectre it make his official military rank redundant. Basically Kaiden listens to him out of respect.

[Zall]

The military ranks are different in Canada and other differences can probably be explained by that as well.

[Harbinger of your Destiny]

Raseri wrote...

Giskler wrote...

So if a General from the Army comes on board a frigate hes suddenly in charge and the Commander has to salute him first?

I'm not a military buff, but I thought everyone has to salute the officer in command of a vessel first when they are on board it regardless of their difference in rank.

To answer your question simply: Yes, the captain of a frigate would salute first any officer that came on board of superior rank, and the yeoman (or whatever, I wasn't Navy) would call the deck to attention, which would include the Captain of the ship, who would then 'report' to the senior officer.   (Although it would be very rare outside of full scale war for an Army officer of any General rank to be on a ship )

At least in the American military, the ONLY time a senior officer salutes someone junior to them *first* is if the junior soldier is wearing a Medal of Honor.  I don't know if other western militaries have a similar rule for their highest award or not.

Well Shepard did recieve teh Star of Terra which is the equivalent to a MoH.

[evisneffo]

Wow, I didn't know that about the salutes. /learned something new today

Yeah there was a discussion the other day about why Shepard never got promoted and I was also surprised to learn that s/he actually starts the series as Lt. Commander and seems to stay that way ... soon to be outranked by Major Alenko. Odd.

[Rabid Rooster]

Hmmm....been out of the military for a few years but as I recall a Naval Captian is not a Major, but would be a Full Bird Cornel. A Commander (at least in ME would be a Lt. Cornel. So a Major would not out rank Shepard.
A bigger question would be why did Kaiden get demopted from Commander as is his rank in ME 2 to Major.

[Alexein]

This is case where "Artistic license" can be invoked. Even if it's wrong its a minor detail to overlook when making a story.

If you want to nitpick you can argue the much more glaring scientific problem of stable element zero being scientifically impossible and mass effects fields being space magic.

I can physically salute with my left hand if i wanted to in real life. I can't make FTL drives in real life.

Artistic License!

[Prism]

Shepard is a spectre, the Normandy is his ship. Military ranks aboard it are pretty much moot.
But the salutes did rub me the wrong way, too.

[Raseri]

Zall wrote...

The military ranks are different in Canada and other differences can probably be explained by that as well.

Actually the Canadian military's officer ranks are the same as the U.S. military., as are the British.  However, what I am certain of is that the rank system in the game changed from ME1 to ME3, and most likely by accident.  The biggest accident most likely being placing Major as equivalent to anything other than Lt. Commander.

This bugs me, but the left handed salutes probably bug me more.

[Skyhawk02]

Interesting thought about the rankings (even though its been brought up before) but unless there is a codex entry specifically stating that the alliance always salutes with the right hand then there is no reason to assume that is a rule.

[The Great and Powerful Trixie]

I always thought calling him Commander was more of an iconic thing than anything else. For all the stuff he(or she) has done, he should hold a much higher position. But when you say Commander Shepard, everyone knows who you're talking about.

It's kind of like the goggles in Splinter Cell with the three green lights. It's revealed that they don't actually glow to anyone but the player. It's an iconic thing.

At least, that's the way I see it.

[Giskler]

You have to keep in mind that we're talking about a fictional unified extrasolar human military organization roughly 200 years in the future. Things dont have to be exactly like they are today.

[Dezerte]

Reasons why Shepard got command:

Shepard is/was a spectre
Out of respect
It's set 200~ years into the future, things change

[JMurray21]

I know they are all under the systems alliance, but isn't Sheperd navy and Kaiden marines.

[worldeater 12TH]

Im serving and i love banging up left handed salutes...keps **** real.

[Sailfindragon]

It is also strange that Joker says to Shepard after the cerberus coup, that Kaiden pulled a gun on a "superior officer"

JMurray21 wrote...

I know they are all under the systems alliance, but isn't Sheperd navy and Kaiden marines.

 

Shepard says several times during the game that he is Alliance Navy.

Modifié par Sailfindragon, 13 avril 2012 - 08:29 .

[sorentoft]

Shepard is Commander Shepard. He needs no rank. He kicks admirals in the balls and punches reporters if he do not like them. He fights like a krogan and runs like a leopard. And you know why? Because he is Commander Shepard and your puny ranks mean nothing to him.

[kelsjet]

Raseri wrote...

Giskler wrote...

So if a General from the Army comes on board a frigate hes suddenly in charge and the Commander has to salute him first?

I'm not a military buff, but I thought everyone has to salute the officer in command of a vessel first when they are on board it regardless of their difference in rank.

To answer your question simply: Yes

Wrong.

Army and Navy are two separate branches. A higher ranking Army officer does not assume command of a Navy asset if no higher or equal equivalent rank of the Navy is present.

Instead, the highest ranking navy officer is in charge of the vessel.

I'm not sure what you think you are talking about, but you are dead wrong. You say you are ex-military, but your basic lack of understanding on chain of command across different branches of the armed forces leads me to believe you are full of ****.

Kaidan is a major in the Army. Shepard, whilst being a Commander, is still the highest ranking Alliance Navy officer aboard the Normandy. Hence, he is in charge.

Free Advice: Go read up on the facts before you start "ZOMG PLOTHOZLEZ ******** ********" screaming.

[Little Princess Peach]

kelsjet wrote...

Raseri wrote...

Giskler wrote...

So if a General from the Army comes on board a frigate hes suddenly in charge and the Commander has to salute him first?

I'm not a military buff, but I thought everyone has to salute the officer in command of a vessel first when they are on board it regardless of their difference in rank.

To answer your question simply: Yes

Wrong.

Army and Navy are two separate branches. A higher ranking Army officer does not assume command of a Navy asset if no higher or equal equivalent rank of the Navy is present.

Instead, the highest ranking navy officer is in charge of the vessel.

I'm not sure what you think you are talking about, but you are dead wrong. You say you are ex-military, but your basic lack of understanding on chain of command across different branches of the armed forces leads me to believe you are full of ****.

Kaidan is a major in the Army. Shepard, whilst being a Commander, is still the highest ranking Alliance Navy officer aboard the Normandy. Hence, he is in charge.

Free Advice: Go read up on the facts before you start "ZOMG PLOTHOZLEZ ******** ********" screaming.

But in ME1 Kaidan says that he and shep are both marines so can you change to the Army after being a Marine how dose that work?

[VolusvsReaper]

Giskler wrote...

You have to keep in mind that we're talking about a fictional unified extrasolar human military organization roughly 200 years in the future. Things dont have to be exactly like they are today.

Pretty much.

[Han Shot First]

Why would a pile of ash and cinders command the Normandy?