167 réponses à ce sujet

[l7986]

Escocido wrote...

First, the customs of the 21st Century US of America don't necessary apply to a space faring future. Maybe it is not wrong to salute with the left hand in the Alliance Military, or maybe you NEED to salute with the left hand in some social circumstances, who knows. In any case, lots of assumptions.

I am pretty sure every miltary on the planet salutes with their right hand. The only country that i could possibly imagine using their left hands would be North Korea and only then because they want to be different.

Modifié par l7986, 13 avril 2012 - 11:03 .

[GothamLord]

chevyguy87 wrote...

GothamLord wrote...

chevyguy87 wrote...

Giskler wrote...

You have to keep in mind that we're talking about a fictional unified extrasolar human military organization roughly 200 years in the future. Things dont have to be exactly like they are today.

Well said.

Obviously said by non-military individuals.   Those that have been prior service or those that are currently active military would likely argue that military tradition is a very important thing to be maintained.  Obviously of course though the Alliance is a global organization, rather than just United States so rankings getting mixed on that scale is going to become screwy.

Left handed salutes though I could never see being changed.   Unless of course a right handed salute is like throwing up a middle finger based on Turian culture.  Maybe it was changed after the First Contact War. 

It's a video game seriously it doesn't have to follow ranks and regulations armed forces abide by in reality. I have several friends who are in the service who have played this game. They told me that they did not take notice to the salute at all and one of them is a Marine. 

Its a video game?  OMG!!  I never knew!  All this time wasted.   

Theres a difference between not noticing it at first compared to not caring about it once it is brought to ones attention.

[Aver88]

You have to keep in mind that we're talking about a fictional unified extrasolar human military organization roughly 200 years in the future. Things dont have to be exactly like they are today.

I checked in Google and I couldn't find ANY army or military organization where saluting with left hand would be allowed. In many countries it's considered as ACT OF DISRESPECT and in Germany you MAY GO TO JAIL for doing so. Even civilians that want to salute flag has to do this with right hand.

So I don't have idea how such tradition that was kept since 17th century could evolve this way.

[Escocido]

Han Shot First wrote...

Escocido wrote...

First, the customs of the 21st Century US of America don't necessary apply to a space faring future. Maybe it is not wrong to salute with the left hand in the Alliance Military, or maybe you NEED to salute with the left hand in some social circumstances, who knows. In any case, lots of assumptions. 

I have to disagree with you there, because saluting with the right hand is not just protocol for Western militaries. It is in fact an ancient and deeply ingrained tradition in all human cultures. The modern military salute evolved from an ancient version where people would raise their right hand (the sword hand) to show that they were not brandishing naked steel. (or bronze, if you want go back further)

Unless for some bizarre reason left hand dominance has become far more common than right in the Mass Effect universe, people should still be saluting with the right hand.

A left-handed salute is just as 'off' as shaking hands with the left.

Looks like a tradition that would get a lot of people stabbed by lefties.

[l7986]

GothamLord wrote...

Its a video game?  OMG!!  I never knew!  All this time wasted.   

This isnt the COD your looking for. move along.  I also made the mistake last year of a left handed salute to my commander maybe a month before i got out of the airforce. you would not believe the ****storm it caused. probably could of thrown a puppy into a running jet engine and it would of caused less trouble.

Modifié par l7986, 13 avril 2012 - 11:12 .

[Maferath]

I was more bothered by turian soldiers doing the human salute, personally. Why would their military use the same code as ours?



As for Kaidan, he and my shepard have an... arrangement.  :innocent:

Modifié par Maferath, 13 avril 2012 - 11:17 .

[Bigwill171]

Han Shot First wrote...

Why would a pile of ash and cinders command the Normandy?

ha gutted

[Escocido]

Maferath wrote...

I was more bothered by turian soldiers doing the human salute, personally. Why would their military use the same code as ours?

They should really used the left hand ALWAYS. Chirality, you know.

[Srau]

Raseri wrote..
The kicker?  Towards the end of the game, on 6 separate occasions, there were military giving left handed salutes.  I'm left handed in real life, but in NO military is a left handed salute acceptable.  So what gives?  QA dropper the ball on the salutes and on the ranks.  Sorry, as former military for a lot of years, this irks me.

Good catch because i remember perfectly a post on the ME2 forum where someone pointed out that a soldier was saluting Shepard with his left hand during the reactivation of Legion, inside EDI mem bank.
I also remember a BW guy posting there, aknowledging and saying they didn't know and bla bla bla.

[Han Shot First]

Maferath wrote...

I was more bothered by turian soldiers doing the human salute, personally. Why would their military use the same code as ours?

I wasn't bothered by that, as aliens in general in Sci Fi tend to use human body language since we can both understand and relate to it. Maybe they should have stuck to the vague 'Roman' theme of the Turians however, and have them do the clenched fist over the heart thing as a salute.

[GothamLord]

Srau wrote...

Raseri wrote..
The kicker?  Towards the end of the game, on 6 separate occasions, there were military giving left handed salutes.  I'm left handed in real life, but in NO military is a left handed salute acceptable.  So what gives?  QA dropper the ball on the salutes and on the ranks.  Sorry, as former military for a lot of years, this irks me.

Good catch because i remember perfectly a post on the ME2 forum where someone pointed out that a soldier was saluting Shepard with his left hand during the reactivation of Legion, inside EDI mem bank.
I also remember a BW guy posting there, aknowledging and saying they didn't know and bla bla bla.

But remember... They are listening.

[Farbautisonn]

Maferath wrote...

I was more bothered by turian soldiers doing the human salute, personally. Why would their military use the same code as ours?

-Because the old roman "salve" salute where the right hand was lifted reminds people too much of certain regimes. It would likely be a salute like that that such an autocratic military used. Garrus is much more palatable doing the standard US salute, than he would be popping the "Hitler Grüss" left right and center.

But I believe that the Raising of the hand is a more traditional military greeting/salute. 

However in a tactical unit, you do not salute your superiors unless in barracks or in a very formal setting. You dont even wear any kind of rank insignia. Why? Because snipers pick the highest ranking target on the battlefield and work their way down. Observers paint their barracks and their tents with laser for Jdam.

Modifié par Farbautisonn, 13 avril 2012 - 11:25 .

[biiskit]

I thought it was possible someone on the writing team thought commander was higher than major, consider that Bailey gets a promotion from captain to commander so c-sec ranks appear to be different to alliance ranks, at least as shown in the codex.

As for left handed salutes, perhaps in the future they've done away with right handed bias.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

I salute like romans in RL. I would prefer Turians also do that ...

I like the Turians and their 15000 years of civilization. They have the most sensible way of education and politics.

[Chewin]

Raseri wrote...
The above ranks show Major as being higher than both Lieutenant Cmdr and Staff Cmdr. In our current military, (...)

Yes, and nothing would possibly have changed in 100 years or so.

Kaidan outranks Shepard, plain and simple, or the change in Alliance ranks was never put into the game at any point past ME1.

And in my playthrough, Kaidan is a Spectre and I'm not.

Outranking someone doesn't equal you being better than the one you outrank, and this is exactly the case with Kaidan and Shepard. Kaidan knows better, and knows that if someone can get the job done it's Shepard, just has he did in against Saren and the Collectors. He would be an idiot if he would even try to take over, and neither Hackett nor Anderson would be dumb enough to put Kaidan in charge.

[Dracotyr]

how in the hell does ash go from gunnery chief to ltcmdr? thts one hell of a promotion.

Modifié par Dracotyr, 13 avril 2012 - 12:06 .

[lillitheris]

The commander is always the commander. If someone's given operational control, they're in charge. Period. Would it have been better to actually promote? Yes, as evidenced by this thread.

The left-handed salute, I think, can be chalked up to Future Army.

[Farbautisonn]

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

I salute like romans in RL. I would prefer Turians also do that ...

I like the Turians and their 15000 years of civilization. They have the most sensible way of education and politics.

-waiting for someone to take the bait....:innocent:

[leeboi2]

Oh, you're in the Alliance I guess then?

[Wulfram]

I put Shepard's lack of promotion as basically down to a combination of bad timing, and in ME3 a bit of PR on the part of the Alliance - the galaxy knows about Commander Shepard, changing to "Captain" would just confused things.

And in practical terms, Shepard's authority exceeds any reasonable military rank. It's not like a Captain has the power to forge alliances with foreign powers.

Though I do wish there was an opportunity for Shepard to make a few joking references to his lack of promotion at some points - like when you meet up with the various squadmates who have been promoted.

[JXS nWp]

Raseri wrote...

Giskler wrote...

So if a General from the Army comes on board a frigate hes suddenly in charge and the Commander has to salute him first?

I'm not a military buff, but I thought everyone has to salute the officer in command of a vessel first when they are on board it regardless of their difference in rank.

To answer your question simply: Yes, the captain of a frigate would salute first any officer that came on board of superior rank, and the yeoman (or whatever, I wasn't Navy) would call the deck to attention, which would include the Captain of the ship, who would then 'report' to the senior officer.   (Although it would be very rare outside of full scale war for an Army officer of any General rank to be on a ship )

At least in the American military, the ONLY time a senior officer salutes someone junior to them *first* is if the junior soldier is wearing a Medal of Honor.  I don't know if other western militaries have a similar rule for their highest award or not.

For sure an army general would be saluted when coming aboard a frigate as a sign of respect.
However I do not believe they would automatically take command of a ship because their rank is technically higher then its captain.
An army general is not incharge of navy operations as they are seperate branches of the military nor would they have the technical knowledge or experience to run a command aboard a frigate.
Although there is protocol for transfer of command (eg. commanding officer is incapacitated), I am not 100% sure with regards to command transfer of officers from different branches of the military.

[Farbautisonn]

Wulfram wrote...

And in practical terms, Shepard's authority exceeds any reasonable military rank. It's not like a Captain has the power to forge alliances with foreign powers.

-Think of Shepard as the leader of a Special Forces "A-team".

[Banefully Yours]

No one even thought of the fact that they MIGHT'VE retconned the ranks?

Ashley is always referred to as "LC/Lieutenant Commander." Shepard isn't. Why would they need to make such a distinction if they were the same rank? Or, why did they bump her up to LC in the first place?

MINOR SPOILER:
Like that Captain at the C-Sec office in the presidium. I was given the impression he talked to a superior officer with the whole "Yes, Commander. Sorry, Commander" line. Or he just respected Shepard.. I'm going with the former.
And then there was the whole Captain Bailey part, where he implied "It's Commander now." Sure, it's C-Sec, still.

It's not too far-fetched to believe Shepard was made a full commander without Bioware making a new codex entry with the rank structure, right?
"Commander" could be above "Captain/Major" and beneath "General/Rear Admiral."

[StarcloudSWG]

Adm. Hackett placed Shepard in command of the vessel. It's Captain Shepard, CMDR, SSV Normandy, SR-2.

That's an absolute. Shepard is in command of the vessel and its operations, even in the presence of a superior officer. Unless relieved of command, Shepard decides where the Normandy goes, what missions to undertake, whether to even undertake a mission, etc.

It's a gross breach of military protocol to do this without very, very good reason, but Shepard could have barred Adm. Hackett from coming aboard the Normandy near the end of the game, because Shepard *is* in charge of the ship.

Even with Hackett aboard, Shepard is still captain of the Normandy, and can countermand Adm. Hackett's orders with regards to the operation of the Normandy. And similarly, Adm. Hackett wouldn't attempt to command the Normandy directly, but pass any orders through Shepard.

It did bother me a bit that Shepard was the one directing the opening engagement of the fleets above Earth. That should, properly, have been Adm. Hackett.

[Viper Pred]

It did bother me a bit that Shepard was the one directing the opening engagement of the fleets above Earth. That should, properly, have been Adm. Hackett.

True, though seeing how Shepard worked his/her ass off trying to gather the fleets in the first place, and then actually leading the entire force with Normandy at the very front, I guess Shep deserved to be granted this one command. You don't see him commanding the fleets later on, and I believe it can be safely assumed that after that single command Hackett took over the entire show.