361 réponses à ce sujet

[T1l]

Seifz wrote...

Dwarf dreams are the biggest puzzle for me.  They have no connection to magic, due to their exposure to lyrium and whatnot, so they don't enter the Fade when they dream.  Humans and Elves do enter the Fade, and it's the spirits of the Fade that create their dreams for them.  So, without spirits, what is a Dwarf dream?  Furthermore, how is it possible that Dwarves get the same "Gray Warden" dreams that Humans and Elves get?

This all doesn't make sense, to me!  I'm putting it on the pile with the ridiculous notion of Elven genes always being recessive when mixed with humans, as if that made any sense!

Exactly my train of thought as well. I sat here for a good few hours pouring over in-game codex entries and reading the wiki to come to a conclusion; there simply isn't one. It's one of those things in the Dragon Age lore that hasn't been fleshed out enough, or explained, to give an answer on.

A shame; Dwarfs in Dragon Age are bro-tier.

[F-C]

Endurium wrote...

Yeah the whole 'quickening' story is a bit far-fetched. You are either immortal or not, you don't 'forget' how to be such as if it was a skill or spell, and association with short-lived species doesn't change your core nature. I mean, I've had lots of dogs for pets and I didn't 'quicken' to their lifespan. This game also misuses the term 'immune' when referring to the taint, so I don't put much stock in the lore and what NPCs say. Just shake my head and move on.

The DA:O elves are okay and can be interesting when they aren't bellyaching about water under the bridge. (A certain annoying Dalish NPC comes to mind.)

if you play the dalish elf origin and read all the notes, books, and whatnot around the camp its because through prolonged contact with humans the elves started getting diseases and dying from them which basically did change their core nature.

its not just 'zomg humans and we forgot how to live forever!'

its more like 'humans gave us diseases and now we die'

their immunity systems were compromised, or however you want to look at it. they were changed.




on topic though, im rather sick of the standard elves and i generally wont play them, so no i dont like the standard tolkein elves better.

Modifié par F-C, 05 décembre 2009 - 08:01 .

[DaeFaron]

I like the tolkein elves better. I don't really see them as arrogent or overly proud though.



The main problem I had about NWN/Dragon age elves are that they are short. Also to me, an elf should naturally be a better archer then a human because they normally have sharper eyesight, hearing, and reflexes.

[Seifz]

DaeFaron wrote...

I like the tolkein elves better. I don't really see them as arrogent or overly proud though.

The main problem I had about NWN/Dragon age elves are that they are short. Also to me, an elf should naturally be a better archer then a human because they normally have sharper eyesight, hearing, and reflexes.

You speak as if NWN and DA:O Elves are the same, and that both are different from what an Elf naturally is.  You know that Elves aren't real, right?  

[Schyzm]

Seifz wrote...

Valiant_hogers wrote...

Those stupid elves were immortal and still lost to the humans wtf?
Realy, can't those elves fight?

Being in contact with the humans caused their immortality to vanish.  Dunno why.

cooties

[DaeFaron]

Seifz wrote...

DaeFaron wrote...

I like the tolkein elves better. I don't really see them as arrogent or overly proud though.

The main problem I had about NWN/Dragon age elves are that they are short. Also to me, an elf should naturally be a better archer then a human because they normally have sharper eyesight, hearing, and reflexes.

You speak as if NWN and DA:O Elves are the same, and that both are different from what an Elf naturally is.  You know that Elves aren't real, right?  

I know elves aren't real, and NWN and Dragon age elves are alike in a few ways. Generally disliked by humans, shorter then humans, and 'better' at being spellcasters.

I just like how Tolkein and Terry Brooks portrayed elves better. *shrug* Its all opinions mainly.

[EricXIII]

Seifz wrote...

T1l wrote...

Endurium wrote...

Yeah the whole 'quickening' story is a bit far-fetched. You are either immortal or not, you don't 'forget' how to be such as if it was a skill or spell, and association with short-lived species doesn't change your core nature. I mean, I've had lots of dogs for pets and I didn't 'quicken' to their lifespan. This game also misuses the term 'immune' when referring to the taint, so I don't put much stock in the lore and what NPCs say. Just shake my head and move on.

The DA:O elves are okay and can be interesting when they aren't bellyaching about water under the bridge. (A certain annoying Dalish NPC comes to mind.)

Funny you say that, actually. I had a similar moment earlier when my girlfriend was playing the game, and she paused, turned to me and said, "When Dwarfs dream, why don't they go to the Fade?". I just sat there with a blank expression on my face; and I don't think there's a good explination other than "just because".

Dwarf dreams are the biggest puzzle for me.  They have no connection to magic, due to their exposure to lyrium and whatnot, so they don't enter the Fade when they dream.  Humans and Elves do enter the Fade, and it's the spirits of the Fade that create their dreams for them.  So, without spirits, what is a Dwarf dream?  Furthermore, how is it possible that Dwarves get the same "Gray Warden" dreams that Humans and Elves get?

This all doesn't make sense, to me!  I'm putting it on the pile with the ridiculous notion of Elven genes always being recessive when mixed with humans, as if that made any sense!

Expect from that i cant understand how your dwarf

*******************SPOILER ALERT********************************

can see/live the dream/nightware of the sloth demon at forth flour of Circle of magi...If they cant enter the fade..

Modifié par EricXIII, 05 décembre 2009 - 08:12 .

[the_one_54321]

i always prefer tolkiens interpretations. he is the original bard, and i feel he did it best. that doesnt mean i dont like seeing new stuff, however. new is good as well.

[Seifz]

EricXIII wrote...

Seifz wrote...

T1l wrote...

Endurium wrote...

Yeah the whole 'quickening' story is a bit far-fetched. You are either immortal or not, you don't 'forget' how to be such as if it was a skill or spell, and association with short-lived species doesn't change your core nature. I mean, I've had lots of dogs for pets and I didn't 'quicken' to their lifespan. This game also misuses the term 'immune' when referring to the taint, so I don't put much stock in the lore and what NPCs say. Just shake my head and move on.

The DA:O elves are okay and can be interesting when they aren't bellyaching about water under the bridge. (A certain annoying Dalish NPC comes to mind.)

Funny you say that, actually. I had a similar moment earlier when my girlfriend was playing the game, and she paused, turned to me and said, "When Dwarfs dream, why don't they go to the Fade?". I just sat there with a blank expression on my face; and I don't think there's a good explination other than "just because".

Dwarf dreams are the biggest puzzle for me.  They have no connection to magic, due to their exposure to lyrium and whatnot, so they don't enter the Fade when they dream.  Humans and Elves do enter the Fade, and it's the spirits of the Fade that create their dreams for them.  So, without spirits, what is a Dwarf dream?  Furthermore, how is it possible that Dwarves get the same "Gray Warden" dreams that Humans and Elves get?

This all doesn't make sense, to me!  I'm putting it on the pile with the ridiculous notion of Elven genes always being recessive when mixed with humans, as if that made any sense!

Expect from that i cant understand how your dwarf

*******************SPOILER ALERT********************************

can see/live the dream/nightware <spoiler>...If they cant enter the fade..

You really shouldn't post spoilers here, but I also questioned how that was possible.  It really doesn't make sense.  The same event happened in The Calling, but there weren't any Dwarves in the group so it didn't reveal anything for us in that regard.

EDIT:  And I shouldn't quote spoilers, either! 

Modifié par Seifz, 05 décembre 2009 - 08:17 .

[AntiChri5]

F-C wrote...

Endurium wrote...

Yeah the whole 'quickening' story is a bit far-fetched. You are either immortal or not, you don't 'forget' how to be such as if it was a skill or spell, and association with short-lived species doesn't change your core nature. I mean, I've had lots of dogs for pets and I didn't 'quicken' to their lifespan. This game also misuses the term 'immune' when referring to the taint, so I don't put much stock in the lore and what NPCs say. Just shake my head and move on.

The DA:O elves are okay and can be interesting when they aren't bellyaching about water under the bridge. (A certain annoying Dalish NPC comes to mind.)

if you play the dalish elf origin and read all the notes, books, and whatnot around the camp its because through prolonged contact with humans the elves started getting diseases and dying from them which basically did change their core nature.

its not just 'zomg humans and we forgot how to live forever!'

its more like 'humans gave us diseases and now we die'

their immunity systems were compromised, or however you want to look at it. they were changed.




on topic though, im rather sick of the standard elves and i generally wont play them, so no i dont like the standard tolkein elves better.

Have to agree. After a while the perfect elves just get annoying

[Kyogen]

I only prefer Tolkien's elves in Tolkien. I like what David Gaider and the rest of the DA writing team have done with elves for the game and the books. Without defying fantasy conventions entirely, they have created a convincing alternative.

[Hammerfel]

Yes, I prefer Tolkien's elves too. I tried Elves last because they appear wimpy and cowardly in this universe.

[Majspuffen]

I always thought of the elves immortality as in = cant die of age. The elves didn't die, but instead they went to sleep, the whole "Uthera" or whatever it was called. Why did they lose their "immortality"? Well, F-C explained a bit, I havn't read the codex on my dalish elf. Think I'll do that. Doesn't seem unreasonable that they got diseases and stuff from humans.

[edit] On topic, I do not have an opinion on the subject. I like the elves in dragon age, think their story is great. However, I havn't read tolkien's books. I've only seen the elves in his movies, and from my experience, books are always much better than the movies.

Modifié par Majspuffen, 05 décembre 2009 - 08:25 .

[Bibdy]

Where is it stated that dwarves even dream? They could just 'become one with the stone' and simply lie there blank, in a deep, dark silence.

Modifié par Bibdy, 05 décembre 2009 - 08:25 .

[Seifz]

Bibdy wrote...

Where is it stated that dwarves even dream? They could just 'become one with the stone' and simply lie there blank, in a deep, dark silence.

The loading screen tip that says Dwarves don't enter the Fade when they dream, and the parts of the game that force your Dwarf to enter the Fade!  Plus, the Gray Warden dreams that your Dwarf very much experiences.

[Ingthar]

th3warr1or wrote...
But after awhile, the novelty of the idea wears thin, and I prefer the LoTR style elves(generic high fantasy) ala Legolas and Elrond. I'm fine with the Humans(they didn't change much about it, it's still pretty much the generic fantasy human).

Basically, does anyone else prefer the LoTR elves? Naturally skilled archers, immortal, and tall and graceful creatures.

Well, this is somewhat simplified. Remember Feanor, son of Finwe, greatest of the Noldor, who led the elves back to middle earth. He was a great crafter and died fighting with his sword in a battle against the lord of balrogs. He never fought with a bow.

And remember Sam reciting the ballad of Gil-Galads downfall in LotR. One of the phrases is (in german) "Sein Schwert war lang, sein Speer war kühn" (roughly translated: his sword was long, his spear was bold). No reference mentions Gil-Galad figthing with a bow.

But back to your question. I like the lore of elves and dwarves in DAO. It's new, it's unique and it's well kept throughout the game. I really enjoyed playing as a city elf as well as a casteless dwarf.

Endurium wrote...

Yeah the whole 'quickening' story is a
bit far-fetched. You are either immortal or not, you don't 'forget' how
to be such as if it was a skill or spell, and association with
short-lived species doesn't change your core nature.

Why not? Even the codex just tells legends. Strip of mankinds medically knowledge today. This will raise the childhood mortality, maternal deaths and ther mortality of old people. Within just one or two generations there's a big chance that the following generation will think of the distant past as the time of the ageless, immortal ones.

[EricXIII]

I cant understand why you guys find it so weird that the elves lost their immortality,at all arwen  lost her immortality too in lord of the rings.Probaby it has to do with the human "capturing" elves thing

Modifié par EricXIII, 05 décembre 2009 - 08:32 .

[th3warr1or]

Hammerfel wrote...

Yes, I prefer Tolkien's elves too. I tried Elves last because they appear wimpy and cowardly in this universe.

My thoughts exactly. Those losers got defeated not once, but twice.

[Seifz]

It's been a while since I could be bothered to read the books, but I believe that Arwen gave up her immortality to live a mortal life with a human. It wasn't taken from her.



Seriously, how can anyone read those books a second time? The first time was so painful... It's such a great story, and such boring writing! Gah!

[EricXIII]

Seifz wrote...

It's been a while since I could be bothered to read the books, but I believe that Arwen gave up her immortality to live a mortal life with a human. It wasn't taken from her.

Seriously, how can anyone read those books a second time? The first time was so painful... It's such a great story, and such boring writing! Gah!

Either way inside a day (or whatever) he became mortal from immortal so from the time we dont exactly know what happened and the DA elves lost their immortality it isnt that weird..

[MOTpoetryION]

ya i didnt like the elfs thats why i chose to just side with the warewolfs and kill the elf and the warefolfs are going to help me fight the blite instead of those stuck up rude elfs

[Grossbard]

I always hated elves man why is it these tree hugging skinny freaks are always superior to everyone else. Bout time they get thrown to the bottom of the barrel.

[Bullets McDeath]

I think Bioware made a wise choice with the Dalish elves. I for one think the Thedan elves are a breath of fresh air, but it was a good thought to keep a seperate group of elves for people who prefer the more traditonal, Tolkien-y elf. Even though I don't, it is cool to have them there. Uniquness and variety!

[Tirigon]

The Elves of Tolkien are the best, and for me they are still the only "real" elves. In German there is a distinction between them and others, for Tolkiens Elves are called "Elben" while others are called "Elfen".

The Elves in DA:O are somehow cool and interesting, too, but they arent real "Elben" and will never be.

My personal favourites however are the "Albae" from famous German fantasy novel series "Die Zwerge". They are a kind of dark elves who hate and kill all other races and are a hell of a lot stronger / faster / better Fighters etc than the elves in Tolkiens Literature, and they paint pictures out of their victims´ blood. Just sad that finally they are whiped out by the dwarves :-(

[T1l]

Bibdy wrote...



Where is it stated that dwarves even dream? They could just 'become one with the stone' and simply lie there blank, in a deep, dark silence.

As Seifz said, there is a tooltip on one of the transition screens in the game that states unambiguously, “When Dwarfs dream they do not enter the Fade”. This; like the Elf problem also being discussed raises an issue which can’t really be solved as we don’t have enough information.



Further to my last, it’s interesting to note that whilst Dwarfs do dream (as seen with the Grey Warden visions) it’s not due to the taint. My Gaider sense is tingling, and before he or someone else pops up and says the PC’s connection with the Fade is due to the taint, it can’t be. Oghren and Shale can both enter the Fade as well, quite easily it would seem, and both of them are convinced by it; it is not foreign to them.



I can only hope that David fleshes all this out in the future. I suspect some serious ret-conning will be in order.