361 réponses à ce sujet

[T1l]

David Gaider wrote...

Dwarves do not enter the Fade when they dream, yes. This doesn't mean they are barred from the Fade (as is evident from the fact that a demon can force them in), they simply do not go there naturally.

There's a very good reason for why they don't enter the Fade. I'm not going to tell you what that is, but I will say that it has nothing to do with their resistance to magic. Rather the reverse: their resistance to magic comes from the fact that they don't enter the Fade -- which also allows them to mine dangerous lyrium better than other races would.

Will we ever discuss the reason they don't enter the Fade? Possibly. If that makes you pout, then sorry.

You're a legend; thank you for replying to this thread.

[LunSei Sleidee]

Tirigon wrote...

The elves of DA:O are interesting, yes, but they arent really elves. They are more like poor humans who had a surgeon make them pointy ears.

And the qunari aren't really qunari, they are merely an imperialistic nation of tall humans with a strong religion and a predisposition for pragmatic philosophy. And the dwarves aren't really dwarves, they're merely a community of short-sized humans with complex politic and a very radicated classist society.

Don't you see? All of the races in Dragon Age, finally, have been made reasonable. Finally thet are races in the real sense of the word; a caucasian does not have more than an asian, they only have different cultures and societies and appearances. This is how the races in Dragon Age are, and this is how they should be.
So, in a setting like this one, making the elves into some sacred holy immortal spirits of the forests would have been out of place.

Modifié par LunSei Sleidee, 05 décembre 2009 - 10:36 .

[Slaign]

T1l wrote...


Fact: Dwarfs can enter the fade.
Fact: Dwarfs dream.
Fact: Dwarfs both dream AND enter the fade.
Fact: Loading screen and codex state Dwarfs have no connection to the Fade and do not enter the Fade when they dream.

That to me is a contradiction that needs explaining.

I know you wrote this before reading David's post, but I wanted to use it to show why I believe my theory works.

Dwarfs dream. David just confirmed this again. They do not enter the fade when they do so. Also confirmed. This alone points to "Dreams" and "Fade" being connected but not the same. This indicates there ARE indeed normal, neuron firing dreams.

Dwarves CAN be pulled into the fade. This means that the Fade is not just the humans' and elves' version of dreams, it's an actual plane or dimension.

To me, all this indicates a connection between dreams and the fade that supports the existance of dreams in a normal sense.

Further, they also call telepathic communication from the Arch Demon a dream in game. That indicates they consider a dream to be not just the fade, but any unconscious activity. Which we know dwarves have outside those influences, so a normal dream remains the most logical choice.

What David said doesn't prove it either way, but I still like my theory.

[Endurium]

As to my comments on immortality, well, this game is a work of fiction so the writers could say the elves slipped on banana of smiting +3 and lost their immortality. Besides, I think the description of the 'immortal' elves was rather dull and lacked imagination. I certainly wouldn't get tired of living, but then I'm not given to boredom like so may people I know.

The DA:O elves give us that underdog feeling when we're playing one, which can be fun. However they likely will never return to their former selves in this universe so there's no real sense of accomplishment in that regard.

When I want to play an elf that isn't moaning about who wronged who in the past, I'll play a D&D game. I actually prefer it when there are beings superior to humans.

Modifié par Endurium, 05 décembre 2009 - 11:02 .

[T1l]

Slaign wrote...

I know you wrote this before reading David's post, but I wanted to use it to show why I believe my theory works.

Dwarfs dream. David just confirmed this again. They do not enter the fade when they do so. Also confirmed. This alone points to "Dreams" and "Fade" being connected but not the same. This indicates there ARE indeed normal, neuron firing dreams.

Dwarves CAN be pulled into the fade. This means that the Fade is not just the humans' and elves' version of dreams, it's an actual plane or dimension.

To me, all this indicates a connection between dreams and the fade that supports the existance of dreams in a normal sense.

Further, they also call telepathic communication from the Arch Demon a dream in game. That indicates they consider a dream to be not just the fade, but any unconscious activity. Which we know dwarves have outside those influences, so a normal dream remains the most logical choice.

What David said doesn't prove it either way, but I still like my theory.

After what David wrote, I honestly agree with you. I still would have loved a clarification from the source himself, but that's clearly not going to happen. Your theory is, like you say, not lore but it's certainly the most plausible explanation.

David Gaider wrote...

There's a very good reason for why they don't enter the Fade. I'm not going to tell you what that is, but I will say that it has nothing to do with their resistance to magic.

That’s the kicker, right there.

[Seifz]

David Gaider wrote...

T1l wrote...
The reason my girlfriend asked this was because of a transitional loading screen "tip" that stated: "When Dwarfs dream they do not go to the Fade". Simple as that. I couldn't answer with 100% certainty, and to me, why they don't doesn't make a great deal of sense. I understand that Lyrium makes them resistant to magic; but immune to and separated from the Fade? Really?

Dwarves do not enter the Fade when they dream, yes. This doesn't mean they are barred from the Fade (as is evident from the fact that a demon can force them in), they simply do not go there naturally.

There's a very good reason for why they don't enter the Fade. I'm not going to tell you what that is, but I will say that it has nothing to do with their resistance to magic. Rather the reverse: their resistance to magic comes from the fact that they don't enter the Fade -- which also allows them to mine dangerous lyrium better than other races would.

Will we ever discuss the reason they don't enter the Fade? Possibly. If that makes you pout, then sorry.

Right.  So, what's a Dwarf dream?  Are they like the dreams that we experience?  If so, do Humans and Elves also experience them in addition to Fade dreams?  Is it possible for a Human of an Elf to have a non-Fade dream?

EDIT:  And there's more than just "telepathy" involved with the arch demon.  The characters in DG's novels also have "Grey Warden dreams" and they claim that all Grey Wardens do, always.  That suggests that they have them whether or not an arch demon has awakened.

Modifié par Seifz, 05 décembre 2009 - 11:06 .

[GmanFresh]

as it has been said elves being all high and mighty was a bore

[Tirigon]

@LunSei Sleidee:

But why calling them Elves then? I mean, if they arent like the Elves in classic fantasy (that is, Tolkien+copies^^) they shouldnt be named like them. Its not wrong to invent something new, what Bioware did, but then it should have a new Name too. Difference to Qunari is that Qunari arent in LOTR, but different there, but something entirely new (at least afaik)

[Trajan60]

Dude. Elves in Dragon Age are ****ing weak. I would not **** with a Tolkien elf. You think Lord Celeborn, Haldir or Legolas of the Woodland Realm would let humans enslave them? **** no. You'd get an arrow through your scrotum stat if you went into Mirkwood or Lothlorien looking for trouble.

Although I prefer Tolkien elves, I appreciate Bioware's fresh take on them.

Modifié par Trajan60, 05 décembre 2009 - 11:21 .

[guru7892]

David Gaider wrote...
There's a very good reason for why they don't enter the Fade.

duh! the fade has no ceiling! they would just float right off into the sky-chaos.

David, you may be a good writer, but your understanding of dwarven physics is abhorrent.

...and you though the answer would require DLC. Tisk! Tisk! you need to stop taking your lunches with people from marketing...

(although a dwarven arcane warrior would be the ****.)

[Trajan60]

David Gaider wrote...

T1l wrote...
The reason my girlfriend asked this was because of a transitional loading screen "tip" that stated: "When Dwarfs dream they do not go to the Fade". Simple as that. I couldn't answer with 100% certainty, and to me, why they don't doesn't make a great deal of sense. I understand that Lyrium makes them resistant to magic; but immune to and separated from the Fade? Really?

Dwarves do not enter the Fade when they dream, yes. This doesn't mean they are barred from the Fade (as is evident from the fact that a demon can force them in), they simply do not go there naturally.

There's a very good reason for why they don't enter the Fade. I'm not going to tell you what that is, but I will say that it has nothing to do with their resistance to magic. Rather the reverse: their resistance to magic comes from the fact that they don't enter the Fade -- which also allows them to mine dangerous lyrium better than other races would.

Will we ever discuss the reason they don't enter the Fade? Possibly. If that makes you pout, then sorry.

Okay. But the real reason is there is a 4'-6" height requirement to get into the Fade. Admit it.

[thegreateski]

No.

They are. . . uppity.

It is good to see this dumb archetype be put in its place.

[DragonRageGT]

Seifz wrote...

Well, the Elves in Thedas used to be like Tolkien's Elves (minus the tallness) before the Humans stole their stuff.

LMEAO!

Mae Govannen, Nei Ragebow Elvenwyn, taruro lestaed ar Elrondur! Ha na daer ad i lama lín no lathron!
Vedui, edain, Elen sila lumenn omentilmo, Tenna'ento lye omental! Mani uma lle merna?
Lasta lalaithamin!
Hannen lle!
Namarië!

Auta enna i leo, Saurondur! et auta miqula orqu!

[Amagoi]

I like this version of Elves. They're very refreshing and different than what I expected. This is coming from a very fanatical racist against elves, and I really like the Elves in DA.

[Kaosgirl]

th3warr1or wrote...

I enjoy, to an extent the lore and history BioWare has created for Dragon Age. 
Dwarves using swords, and speaking without scottish accents, Elves are shorter than humans, not immortal and overall are the second class citizens while Humans are the masters.

But after awhile, the novelty of the idea wears thin, and I prefer the LoTR style elves(generic high fantasy) ala Legolas and Elrond. I'm fine with the Humans(they didn't change much about it, it's still pretty much the generic fantasy human).

Basically, does anyone else prefer the LoTR elves? Naturally skilled archers, immortal, and tall and graceful creatures.

I prefered Moorcock's "elves" of Melnibone, to be honest.

[rmp]

I prefer DnD elves over both DA and Tolkien.

[Malal Belakor]

elves here are the lasts in the human city

I LOVE THIS WORLD



Dwarves powah XD

[Mavkiel]

Heck no. I really dislike the lotro elves.

When I play a human, its fun to have a servant class to abuse(Or protect if thats your thing). When I am an elf, its great to feel like you have lost most of your history to these vile human animals, and you can rationalize any sort of redistribution of wealth you like. Also you can get away with any sort of horrific comments about humans and not feel to bad..

[Ingthar]

Tirigon wrote...

@LunSei Sleidee:
But why calling them Elves then? I mean, if they arent like the Elves in classic fantasy (that is, Tolkien+copies^^) they shouldnt be named like them. Its not wrong to invent something new, what Bioware did, but then it should have a new Name too. Difference to Qunari is that Qunari arent in LOTR, but different there, but something entirely new (at least afaik)

*sigh*

Elves (regardless if you call them Elf, Alb or Elb), Dwarves or Trolls aren't Tolkiens invention. They're taken from classic european mythology, esp. nordic mythologie for Tolkien. And there is not even a clear distinction between "Lichtalb" (elf) and "Dunkelalb" (dwarf). Even in celtic (irish) mythology the Tuatha Dé Danan are elves living below (!) the fey hills.

There are also those nifty but annoying flower elves (some call them fey too).

So, there's no need to reinvent the wheel...

[MerinTB]

David Gaider wrote...

T1l wrote...
The reason my girlfriend asked this was because of a transitional loading screen "tip" that stated: "When Dwarfs dream they do not go to the Fade". Simple as that. I couldn't answer with 100% certainty, and to me, why they don't doesn't make a great deal of sense. I understand that Lyrium makes them resistant to magic; but immune to and separated from the Fade? Really?

Dwarves do not enter the Fade when they dream, yes. This doesn't mean they are barred from the Fade (as is evident from the fact that a demon can force them in), they simply do not go there naturally.

There's a very good reason for why they don't enter the Fade. I'm not going to tell you what that is, but I will say that it has nothing to do with their resistance to magic. Rather the reverse: their resistance to magic comes from the fact that they don't enter the Fade -- which also allows them to mine dangerous lyrium better than other races would.

Will we ever discuss the reason they don't enter the Fade? Possibly. If that makes you pout, then sorry.

Yay!  More novels?  Please write more novels.


Oh, and, sorry, I know this makes me either a simpleton, a fantasy fan with bad taste -
or not a pot head -
but I think I prefer shoe cobbler elves to Tolkien elves.  Or the Keebler elves.  Or the Rice Krispies elves.  Tolkien made me hate elves, his version (and the heavy influence they often had on D&D and other fantasy) were nearly as haughty and superior as the author himself.

[dheer]

Not really. I've always found the Tolkien elves to be too perfect for my tastes. There need to be a few flaws to make any race feel real to me.



I love the Dalish story they've come up with for Dragon Age. The struggle to find out about their past and hopefully, one day, unite the elven race and have a homeland again really strikes a chord with me.

[LaztRezort]

Well, at least they aren't the type of elves who live in the polar regions and do nothing but make stupid toys all day.

But I do prefer Tolkien elves, if talking literature.  However, putting them in a game would be near impossible.  They would be too overpowered, difficult to role-play, and cliche.

I actually prefer DA:O dwarves over Tolkien -- much more interesting.

Also, Tolkien dwarves did not talk with scottish accents.  Those were Jackson dwarves. 

[ChickenDownUnder]

I don't have a problem with the depiction of either Tolkien or DA elves.



The elves I've liked the most is from a book series by Andre Norton and Mercedes Lackey, where the elves are still pretty much immortal and powerful when it comes to magic and so on, but they're more the evil overlords that have enslaved mankind.

[Kaosgirl]

David Gaider wrote...

T1l wrote...
The reason my girlfriend asked this was because of a transitional loading screen "tip" that stated: "When Dwarfs dream they do not go to the Fade". Simple as that. I couldn't answer with 100% certainty, and to me, why they don't doesn't make a great deal of sense. I understand that Lyrium makes them resistant to magic; but immune to and separated from the Fade? Really?

Dwarves do not enter the Fade when they dream, yes. This doesn't mean they are barred from the Fade (as is evident from the fact that a demon can force them in), they simply do not go there naturally.

There's a very good reason for why they don't enter the Fade. I'm not going to tell you what that is, but I will say that it has nothing to do with their resistance to magic. Rather the reverse: their resistance to magic comes from the fact that they don't enter the Fade -- which also allows them to mine dangerous lyrium better than other races would.

Will we ever discuss the reason they don't enter the Fade? Possibly. If that makes you pout, then sorry.

The fact that you won't say why here already indicates it would be a spoiler for an upcoming project of some kind, so the only real question is whether that project takes off or dies in the planning stage

[kroosaydur]

i never really liked elves at all so i really dont care. if i was going to play an elf though id prefer to be like the tolkien elves.