1057 réponses à ce sujet

[balance5050]

ajm317 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

moving over here are we?.. anyone agaisnt IT please adress these points. (these are its strongests points imo)

1. shepard awakes on earth
2. color switches from paragon/regenade in the end
3. after anderson get shot, a ledge magically appears so he can rest- the map changes like in a dream
4. the last reaper you see is harbinger

1.  It's not clear that he/she does.  The shot is very tight and provides little visual context.  It ccould be London.  It could be the Citadel.  Although the Citadel exhibits large scale destruction in the ending it doesn't completely disintigrate.  Large pieces are left intact.  Shepard could be in one of them.

2.  Nothing to explain.  Not sure why you think this is a point in IT's favor.  Nothing even get's "switched" as far as I can see.

3.  The map in this location changes constantly.  The Starchild makes entire walkways appear.  Anderson comments on the maps shifting nature.  The Starchild, being the Citadel itself, can just do that apparently.

4.  Again, nothing to explain.  I don't see how this is a point in IT's favor.

1. then he survived an explosion that was a kilometer wide?

2. So controlling the reapers is Paragon?

3. So the star child saw that Anderson and Shep needed something to lean against?

4. Harbinger is a voice in your head through the entierety of ME2. He says things like "your mind will be mine" and "we will find another way"

[llbountyhunter]

ajm317 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

moving over here are we?.. anyone agaisnt IT please adress these points. (these are its strongests points imo)

1. shepard awakes on earth
2. color switches from paragon/regenade in the end
3. after anderson get shot, a ledge magically appears so he can rest- the map changes like in a dream
4. the last reaper you see is harbinger

1.  It's not clear that he/she does.  The shot is very tight and provides little visual context.  It ccould be London.  It could be the Citadel.  Although the Citadel exhibits large scale destruction in the ending it doesn't completely disintigrate.  Large pieces are left intact.  Shepard could be in one of them.

2.  Nothing to explain.  Not sure why you think this is a point in IT's favor.  Nothing even get's "switched" as far as I can see.

3.  The map in this location changes constantly.  The Starchild makes entire walkways appear.  Anderson comments on the maps shifting nature.  The Starchild, being the Citadel itself, can just do that apparently.

4.  Again, nothing to explain.  I don't see how this is a point in IT's favor.

3. exactly the map changes like in a dream... it also has barts of the shadow broker ships in it.

4.you dont see how the fact that harbinger  is the last reaper you see, before things take on a dream-like appearance help IT? (the reaper who speacializez in indocternation "ASUMIONG DIRECT CONTROL")

[Leafs43]

The only hole in the theory I see is why did the reapers let it get that far?

[IronSabbath88]

There are some people who just disown this theory and everything it stands for.

If you're one of those people, I have to ask...

Did you pick control or synthesis?

Modifié par IronSabbath88, 13 avril 2012 - 08:37 .

[KevShep]

ajm317 wrote...

KevShep wrote...
The fact that the last 10 minutes of the game seem out of place (or like a dream) with the rest of the series is proof that it was a dream mixed with the fact that you CAN hear shepard in the catalyst voice and mixed with the fact that he/she IS dreaming throught alot of the game does in fact prove it!

It does not, but believe what you want.

Again, all these facts are consistent with IT, but they certainly do not rule out a literal interpretation.

 Mixed with the fact that Bioware wanted speculation from everyone ment that they knew what they were doing so that means that they are not that stupid to create series ending plot holes.

The literal interpretation has even less wieght then the I.T.
 
One of the most important things to notice is that they "were" going to end a series without explaining everything about the kid. They are going to continue it as they have planned.

[balance5050]

EpyonX3 wrote...


But where they being suggested before the end? And what happens when the EMS is low and you only have the destroy option?

With low EMS you choose destroy because they don't need to indoctrinate you because because your Crucible sucks and your fleet is tiny.

Modifié par balance5050, 13 avril 2012 - 08:38 .

[SubAstris]

Gallifreya wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Ok, see if you can refute this:

In both the synthesis and control endings, Shepard gets TIM's eyey, while s/he keeps his/her own eyes in destroy. And don't come with "it's Shepard's cybernetic implants", because that was already refuted in Mass Effect: evolution, where Jack Harper/TIM gets the same eyes after coming in contact with a reaper artifact.

In destroy, he doesn't come into contact with the Reapers per se, he just destroys them., while in control and synthesis you are actively touching them, coming into contact with Reaper tech that alters you and potentially everyone in the galaxy. Hence, why Shephard's eyes change for those choices, nothing to do with indoctrination.

Here's the major question then: Do Joker's (and your companions) eyes change to these 'Indoctrinated' eyes  in Control or Sythesis?

I have just looked at the endings again, for the Synthesis option Joker's eyes do actually change. As for Control, you wouldn't expect them to change anyway

[jijeebo]

llbountyhunter wrote...

moving over here are we?.. anyone agaisnt IT please adress these points. (these are its strongests points imo)

1. shepard awakes on earth

This contradicts IT completely imo, because if it was true Shepard would wake up after any ending... Unless the reapers are like Freddy Kreuger and killed Shep in his dream.

2. color switches from paragon/regenade in the end

That's because Star Jar was supposed to completely alter our thoughts and convince us that destroying the reapers isn't the way and that Control could actually work if Shepard did it. He failed due to dodgy writing. and poor explanation.

3. after anderson get shot, a ledge magically appears so he can rest- the map changes like in a dream

Lack of polish, just like the Avenger assault rifle appearing in cutscenes even though you didn't equip one.

4. the last reaper you see is harbinger

Harbinger is the only notable reaper in ME3 so he is the final reaper in the game, Bioware thought they were doing him justice by giving him his little "charge the Citadel" cameo... They were wrong. 

[IronSabbath88]

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


But where they being suggested before the end? And what happens when the EMS is low and you only have the destroy option?

With low EMS you choose destroy because they don't need to indoctrinate you because because your Crucible sucks and your fleet is tiny.

"CHRIST! IT'S TINEH!"

[EpyonX3]

balance5050 wrote...

ajm317 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

moving over here are we?.. anyone agaisnt IT please adress these points. (these are its strongests points imo)

1. shepard awakes on earth
2. color switches from paragon/regenade in the end
3. after anderson get shot, a ledge magically appears so he can rest- the map changes like in a dream
4. the last reaper you see is harbinger

1.  It's not clear that he/she does.  The shot is very tight and provides little visual context.  It ccould be London.  It could be the Citadel.  Although the Citadel exhibits large scale destruction in the ending it doesn't completely disintigrate.  Large pieces are left intact.  Shepard could be in one of them.

2.  Nothing to explain.  Not sure why you think this is a point in IT's favor.  Nothing even get's "switched" as far as I can see.

3.  The map in this location changes constantly.  The Starchild makes entire walkways appear.  Anderson comments on the maps shifting nature.  The Starchild, being the Citadel itself, can just do that apparently.

4.  Again, nothing to explain.  I don't see how this is a point in IT's favor.

2. So controlling the reapers is Paragon?

4. Harbinger is a voice in your head through the entierety of ME2. He says things like "your mind will be mine" and "we will find another way"

2. Yes because it minimizes the loss of life throught the galaxy, spares the relays enough so they can be rebuilt, doesn't kill synthetic life (Geth) and doesn't destroy the citadel. It is in line with the paragon principles.

4. Harbinger could be heard by everyone through the collectors and hollograms. I'd be more convinced of IT if you could hear harbinger without any of these object present.

[jijeebo]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

There are some people who just disown this theory and everything it stands for.

If you're one of those people, I have to ask...

Did you pick control or synthesis?

Control!

I love me my geth. 

[Tirian Thorn]

balance5050 wrote...


With low EMS you choose destroy because they don't need to indoctrinate you because because your Crucible sucks and your fleet is tiny.

With a low EMS you pick based on whether to saved the Collector Base in ME2 or not.

If you saved the base you pick Control.

If you destroyed the base you pick Destroy. 

[llbountyhunter]

Leafs43 wrote...

The only hole in the theory I see is why did the reapers let it get that far?

they purposely indoctranate powerful figures to make things easier.

what takes less effort?

contenuing to wage the war, and spend hundred of years fighting resistense...

or, indoctrinate shepard (the beacon of the movement itself) and have him lead everone into the reapers grasp?

[ajm317]

balance5050 wrote...

1. then he survived an explosion that was a kilometer wide?

Possibly.  The explosion was show in an exterior shot.  We don't know that the interior of the Citadel was destroyed.

It doesn't make a lot of sense, but there's more than a few things in the trilogy that don't.  This wouldn't be the first.  Bioware had to have their "Shepard breathes" scene and I don't think they put too much effort into thinking through how it would work, much like the Normandy crash.

2. So controlling the reapers is Paragon?

Uh, I don't know, sure?

Why is controlling the Reapers NOT Paragon?  What else would be Paragon?  Killing all the Geth?

Remember the third choice is only available at high EMS.

3. So the star child saw that Anderson and Shep needed something to lean against?

Sure, why not?

4. Harbinger is a voice in your head through the entierety of ME2. He says things like "your mind will be mine" and "we will find another way"

So what?  What does this have to do with Harbinger appearing at the end of the game and IT? 

[KevShep]

EpyonX3 wrote...


No she doesn't mention anything about Indoctrination. You guys are making that up. The quote is, "We don't know what happened in the war, we only heard discourdence, songs of oliy shadows..." She then goes on to say that a tone from space produced sour yello notes that silenced the songs one by one. That was the end of the rachni war when they were blasted to peices.

Wrong...She says that you are fighting the ones responsable, and then she says that when the time comes her voice will join with yours in the fight.

[Leafs43]

llbountyhunter wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

The only hole in the theory I see is why did the reapers let it get that far?

they purposely indoctranate powerful figures to make things easier.

what takes less effort?

contenuing to wage the war, and spend hundred of years fighting resistense...

or, indoctrinate shepard (the beacon of the movement itself) and have him lead everone into the reapers grasp?

But why not just indoctrinate Shepherd right out of the gate?

[yarpenthemad21]

1. hackett calling shep after opening citadel arms. how hackett know that shepard is alive, is in control room?
2. why harbinger fly away?
3. why devs adds tree brenches to after beam scene? they made map, then after beam they add trees for what reason? rushed? but rushed content mostly mean that something havent been added or deleted from copied content.
4. breathing shepard in stone rubble in only one ending.
5. why shepard in synthesis and controll ending turn into husk like thing?
6. kid in the first mission on earth. why anderson didnt notice him, why he run through closed door and in final scene where he seems to be invisible to soldiers and ppl around.
its beginning of the game. not the "rushed" part. this part of game have only two versions (with kaidan and with ashley), its even part of the demo. its should be polished and ideal. so why this kid, one of the main characters of this part is that strange or "bad made"?

[EpyonX3]

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


But where they being suggested before the end? And what happens when the EMS is low and you only have the destroy option?

With low EMS you choose destroy because they don't need to indoctrinate you because because your Crucible sucks and your fleet is tiny.

No with low ems everything gets destroyed, even troops on the ground. They all get wiped out by the red wave, this wave comes from the point where shepard is standing, which got to him as well, killing him. When you have enough EMS this wave does not kill organic life in its path. Therefore, Shepard survives and can get rescued, hence the breathe scene.

[balance5050]

Tirian Thorn wrote...

balance5050 wrote...


With low EMS you choose destroy because they don't need to indoctrinate you because because your Crucible sucks and your fleet is tiny.

With a low EMS you pick based on whether to saved the Collector Base in ME2 or not.

If you saved the base you pick Control.

If you destroyed the base you pick Destroy. 

Well, I don't trust reaper tech so I destroyed it.

[balance5050]

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


But where they being suggested before the end? And what happens when the EMS is low and you only have the destroy option?

With low EMS you choose destroy because they don't need to indoctrinate you because because your Crucible sucks and your fleet is tiny.

No with low ems everything gets destroyed, even troops on the ground. They all get wiped out by the red wave, this wave comes from the point where shepard is standing, which got to him as well, killing him. When you have enough EMS this wave does not kill organic life in its path. Therefore, Shepard survives and can get rescued, hence the breathe scene.

Yes, that is the face value representation, I still don't beleive that Shep could survive this:

Modifié par balance5050, 13 avril 2012 - 08:44 .

[rachellouise]

 
1. hackett calling shep after opening citadel arms. how hackett know that shepard is alive, is in control room?
Answered yourself, who else would have opened the arms, and where from?

[EpyonX3]

KevShep wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


No she doesn't mention anything about Indoctrination. You guys are making that up. The quote is, "We don't know what happened in the war, we only heard discourdence, songs of oliy shadows..." She then goes on to say that a tone from space produced sour yello notes that silenced the songs one by one. That was the end of the rachni war when they were blasted to peices.

Wrong...She says that you are fighting the ones responsable, and then she says that when the time comes her voice will join with yours in the fight.

Nope, she said was referring to the current events. She's fighting those responsible for capturing her and running experiments on them. To return the favor of releasing her, she'd help you later.

"You are not in harmony with those who seek to control us."

[llbountyhunter]

Leafs43 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

The only hole in the theory I see is why did the reapers let it get that far?

they purposely indoctranate powerful figures to make things easier.

what takes less effort?

contenuing to wage the war, and spend hundred of years fighting resistense...

or, indoctrinate shepard (the beacon of the movement itself) and have him lead everone into the reapers grasp?

But why not just indoctrinate Shepherd right out of the gate?

well shepard is supposed to have extremely strong willpower (stated by liara since me1),  this is the very reason why you might be able to  resist it.

[llbountyhunter]

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


But where they being suggested before the end? And what happens when the EMS is low and you only have the destroy option?

With low EMS you choose destroy because they don't need to indoctrinate you because because your Crucible sucks and your fleet is tiny.

No with low ems everything gets destroyed, even troops on the ground. They all get wiped out by the red wave, this wave comes from the point where shepard is standing, which got to him as well, killing him. When you have enough EMS this wave does not kill organic life in its path. Therefore, Shepard survives and can get rescued, hence the breathe scene.

Yes, that is the face value representation, I still don't beleive that Shep could survive this:

space magic!!!
:wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard:

[jijeebo]

yarpenthemad21 wrote...

1. hackett calling shep after opening citadel arms. how hackett know that shepard is alive, is in control room?
2. why harbinger fly away?
3. why devs adds tree brenches to after beam scene? they made map, then after beam they add trees for what reason? rushed? but rushed content mostly mean that something havent been added or deleted from copied content.
4. breathing shepard in stone rubble in only one ending.
5. why shepard in synthesis and controll ending turn into husk like thing?
6. kid in the first mission on earth. why anderson didnt notice him, why he run through closed door and in final scene where he seems to be invisible to soldiers and ppl around.
its beginning of the game. not the "rushed" part. this part of game have only two versions (with kaidan and with ashley), its even part of the demo. its should be polished and ideal. so why this kid, one of the main characters of this part is that strange or "bad made"?

I'm sorry but all of those can be attributed to bad writing and lack of polish. The only exception is number 4, which is because Shepard gets disintegrated in the other two endings so he can't wake up. I can only think they did this so Control isn't the obvious "best" ending for everyone.