1057 réponses à ce sujet

[ShepardTheHopeful]

There has not been a single question I couldn't explain in some way that met mass effect logic at least a little that had nothing to do with the indoctrination theory. Rather than rage and spout my own thoughts. I'd ask anyone who has a question ask it and I will do my best to answer in a countering logical manner.

I do not believe in the indoctrination theory. While I see how people can see it that way. I strongly disagree with it. I'll be happy to answer any questions in a civil and calm manner = )

[KevShep]

EpyonX3 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


No she doesn't mention anything about Indoctrination. You guys are making that up. The quote is, "We don't know what happened in the war, we only heard discourdence, songs of oliy shadows..." She then goes on to say that a tone from space produced sour yello notes that silenced the songs one by one. That was the end of the rachni war when they were blasted to peices.

Wrong...She says that you are fighting the ones responsable, and then she says that when the time comes her voice will join with yours in the fight.

Nope, she said was referring to the current events. She's fighting those responsible for capturing her and running experiments on them. To return the favor of releasing her, she'd help you later.

"You are not in harmony with those who seek to control us."

The conversation was about something soured the songs of our mothers in the rachni war.

It was about the rachni war and that meant it was Sovereign which means that it was about Indoctrination!

No, the war comment came as a response to Shepards inquiry about the war. The queen was an egg at the time so it doesn't know what happened and why, just that she could hear here people die. It had nothing to do with Soveriegn.

Shepard asked the question because he/she thought that the rachni would do war again and that she was saying that war was NOT there choice....indoctrination.

[AtlasMickey]

I'm not kidding about this:

Indoc is one big hole. It is the removal of something, not an addition or clarification. It's like that old riddle– what can you find at the bottom of a barrel, which makes the barrel lighter? A hole. What can you find at the end of Mass Effect 3 that makes the game emptier? Indoc.

And it's not a theory, it's theology. Not exaggerating.

Modifié par AtlasMickey, 13 avril 2012 - 08:59 .

[balance5050]

ajm317 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...


Yes, that is the face value representation, I still don't beleive that Shep could survive this:

He's survived worse. I already responded to the first time you posted this. This doesn't validate IT. Nor does it make my point invalid.

No he hasn't.

He survived death.  I think that qualifies as worse.

Besides, in that shot the ring and the arms are clearly still intact.  It's entirely possible that there is some safe part of the Citadel and that Shepard is in it. 

No, he was rebuilt using synthetics and stem cell research. He was resurrected by a team of scientists, he didn't survive death. That is just a silly statment.

That explosions was the crucible exploding and it was directly above Shep's head. it would probable equate to several million tons of dynomite going off several meters above your head. I'm just using logic here. There was no escape for Shepard.

Modifié par balance5050, 13 avril 2012 - 09:00 .

[rachellouise]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

The Rachni are generally a peaceful race. This is made evident by the Queen herself. They were indoctrinated, hence why they started the war in the first place.

wrex and eve are pretty peaceful, doesn't mean all  krogan are. Doesn't mean they're indoctrinated, because they're not as peaceful.

Modifié par rachellouise, 13 avril 2012 - 09:02 .

[IronSabbath88]

AtlasMickey wrote...

I'm not kidding about this:

Indoc is one big hole. It is the removal of something, not an addition or clarification. It's like that old riddle– what can you find at the bottom of a barrel, which makes the barrel lighter? A hole. What can you find at the end of Mass Effect 3 that makes the game emptier? Indoc.

And it's not a theory, it's theology. Not exaggerating.

Makes the game emptier, huh?

Well considering it was a key part of the first two games, I find your reasoning pretty funny.

[EpyonX3]

llbountyhunter wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...


Yes, that is the face value representation, I still don't beleive that Shep could survive this:

He's survived worse. I already responded to the first time you posted this. This doesn't validate IT. Nor does it make my point invalid.

No he hasn't.

if your talking about him re-entering in me2..... he had him helmet+amor on, they said he wouldnt of had survived if not for his helmet. 


they also spent TWO YEARS fixing him up.

so here (with no armor) he survinged a major explosion, ANOTHER re-entry (earth is also more massive than the other planet), and can start breathing right away?

One more fault of the theory. It proves speculation with further speculation.


Who said the citadel plunged to earth? There is little to no energy required for an object to stay in orbit. It's assumed that the citadel fell to earth, adding to the impossibility of shepards survival.

It's also assumed that life support and gravity would be turned off because of damage to the citadel.

We don't know these things to be true, but what proves that there was an atmosphere and gravity are right in front of you in the breathe scene.

[jijeebo]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

The Rachni are generally a peaceful race. This is made evident by the Queen herself. They were indoctrinated, hence why they started the war in the first place.

I hate that the Rachnis sole purpose was to get indoctrinated over and over again. 

[estebanus]

llbountyhunter wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...


Yes, that is the face value representation, I still don't beleive that Shep could survive this:

He's survived worse. I already responded to the first time you posted this. This doesn't validate IT. Nor does it make my point invalid.

No he hasn't.

if your talking about him re-entering in me2..... he had him helmet+amor on, they said he wouldnt of had survived if not for his helmet. 


they also spent TWO YEARS fixing him up.

so here (with no armor) he survinged a major explosion, ANOTHER re-entry (earth is also more massive than the other planet), and can start breathing right away?

Not only that, but Shepard actually died in ME2's beginning, S/he didn't survive...

[IronSabbath88]

rachellouise wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

The Rachni are generally a peaceful race. This is made evident by the Queen herself. They were indoctrinated, hence why they started the war in the first place.

Not really, wrex and eve are pretty peaceful, doesn't mean all  krogan are.

That's silly justification. There was no evidence of the Rachni being hostile before the Wars. Even Javik remembers them. Infact the ONLY time you hear bad things about them is during the Rachni Wars.

It's clear indoctrination played a part, when you meet the Queen in ME3, she's FURIOUS. They have had this happen before just not on this level.

[KevShep]

AtlasMickey wrote...

I'm not kidding about this:

Indoc is one big hole. It is the removal of something, not an addition or clarification. It's like that old riddle– what can you find at the bottom of a barrel, which makes the barrel lighter? A hole. What can you find at the end of Mass Effect 3 that makes the game emptier? Indoc.

And it's not a theory, it's theology. Not exaggerating.

What your saying is the opposite. Bioware is a genius, they are indoctrinating the player with shepard and the last 10 minutes of the game seem like a dream. What makes this interesting is that you can hear shepard's voice in the catalyst's own voice as a wisper. Use headphones to hear it by useing the right ear piece to hear maleshep and the left one to hear femshep.

[estebanus]

jijeebo wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

The Rachni are generally a peaceful race. This is made evident by the Queen herself. They were indoctrinated, hence why they started the war in the first place.

I hate that the Rachnis sole purpose was to get indoctrinated over and over again. 

The reason why the rachni easily get indoctrinated is due to their hive mind. If even one rachni queen is indoctrinated, millions, if not billions, would follow.

[ajm317]

balance5050 wrote...

No, he was rebuilt using synthetics and stem cell research. He was resurrected by a team of scientists, he didn't survive death. That is just a silly statment.

So he was dead, and then he wasn't.

The whole thing was ridiculous.  If the writers are willing to actually kill Shepard and then bring him back to life, they're willing to do just about anything.

That explosions was the crucible exploding and it was directly above Shep's head.

Speculation.  More likely it was the Citadel's Mass Relay.

it would probable equate to several million tons of dynomite going off several meters above your head. I'm just using logic here.

And yet, THE RING IS STILL INTACT IN THAT PHOTO.

Whether it makes sense or not, the Citadel is largely intact.  If pieces of it are still in orbit Shepard could be in one.

[EpyonX3]

KevShep wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


No she doesn't mention anything about Indoctrination. You guys are making that up. The quote is, "We don't know what happened in the war, we only heard discourdence, songs of oliy shadows..." She then goes on to say that a tone from space produced sour yello notes that silenced the songs one by one. That was the end of the rachni war when they were blasted to peices.

Wrong...She says that you are fighting the ones responsable, and then she says that when the time comes her voice will join with yours in the fight.

Nope, she said was referring to the current events. She's fighting those responsible for capturing her and running experiments on them. To return the favor of releasing her, she'd help you later.

"You are not in harmony with those who seek to control us."

The conversation was about something soured the songs of our mothers in the rachni war.

It was about the rachni war and that meant it was Sovereign which means that it was about Indoctrination!

No, the war comment came as a response to Shepards inquiry about the war. The queen was an egg at the time so it doesn't know what happened and why, just that she could hear here people die. It had nothing to do with Soveriegn.

Shepard asked the question because he/she thought that the rachni would do war again and that she was saying that war was NOT there choice....indoctrination.

It's odd that you can read a line like this: "We do not know what happened in the war"

And deduce that she said: "Oh yeah they were all indoctrinated by a reaper named Sovereign who made us evil and started a war with everyone."

Replay the scene again, there are two different things going on here. When you replay it, come back here and tell me if you still feel the same way.

[balance5050]

EpyonX3 wrote...


One more fault of the theory. It proves speculation with further speculation.


Who said the citadel plunged to earth? There is little to no energy required for an object to stay in orbit. It's assumed that the citadel fell to earth, adding to the impossibility of shepards survival.

It's also assumed that life support and gravity would be turned off because of damage to the citadel.

We don't know these things to be true, but what proves that there was an atmosphere and gravity are right in front of you in the breathe scene.

That all just makes I.T. more likely though. 

[KevShep]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

The Rachni are generally a peaceful race. This is made evident by the Queen herself. They were indoctrinated, hence why they started the war in the first place.

Not really, wrex and eve are pretty peaceful, doesn't mean all  krogan are.

That's silly justification. There was no evidence of the Rachni being hostile before the Wars. Even Javik remembers them. Infact the ONLY time you hear bad things about them is during the Rachni Wars.

It's clear indoctrination played a part, when you meet the Queen in ME3, she's FURIOUS. They have had this happen before just not on this level.

Sovereign tried to wipe out the galaxy with the rachni. According to the asari in ME2 they were indoctrinated by sovereign against there will.

[rachellouise]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

The Rachni are generally a peaceful race. This is made evident by the Queen herself. They were indoctrinated, hence why they started the war in the first place.

Not really, wrex and eve are pretty peaceful, doesn't mean all  krogan are.

That's silly justification. There was no evidence of the Rachni being hostile before the Wars. Even Javik remembers them. Infact the ONLY time you hear bad things about them is during the Rachni Wars.

It's clear indoctrination played a part, when you meet the Queen in ME3, she's FURIOUS. They have had this happen before just not on this level.

No it's not. You can't say a whole species/race is usually peaceful, because one is. Again Wrex, and eve are quite peaceful , is wreave? He wouldn't lead the Krogan the same way,. There's nothing to say the racnhi queens have shared the same outlook.

Modifié par rachellouise, 13 avril 2012 - 09:08 .

[estebanus]

AtlasMickey wrote...

I'm not kidding about this:

Indoc is one big hole. It is the removal of something, not an addition or clarification. It's like that old riddle– what can you find at the bottom of a barrel, which makes the barrel lighter? A hole. What can you find at the end of Mass Effect 3 that makes the game emptier? Indoc.

And it's not a theory, it's theology. Not exaggerating.

really? theology?

Theology is a certain belief in a religion, not in a theory. A theory is NOT the same as theology, as IT is NOT a religion.

[rachellouise]

it's a hypothesis

[yarpenthemad21]

jijeebo wrote...

yarpenthemad21 wrote...

1. hackett calling shep after opening citadel arms. how hackett know that shepard is alive, is in control room?
2. why harbinger fly away?
3. why devs adds tree brenches to after beam scene? they made map, then after beam they add trees for what reason? rushed? but rushed content mostly mean that something havent been added or deleted from copied content.
4. breathing shepard in stone rubble in only one ending.
5. why shepard in synthesis and controll ending turn into husk like thing?
6. kid in the first mission on earth. why anderson didnt notice him, why he run through closed door and in final scene where he seems to be invisible to soldiers and ppl around.
its beginning of the game. not the "rushed" part. this part of game have only two versions (with kaidan and with ashley), its even part of the demo. its should be polished and ideal. so why this kid, one of the main characters of this part is that strange or "bad made"?

I'm sorry but all of those can be attributed to bad writing and lack of polish. The only exception is number 4, which is because Shepard gets disintegrated in the other two endings so he can't wake up. I can only think they did this so Control isn't the obvious "best" ending for everyone.

number 6
lack of polish in first 10 minutes of the game? its tutorial. we dont have choices here. all this map is fixed tunnel. 
so if they screw this first 10 minutes, how they manage to make other quests ?

i have some expierience in game dev. rushed and bad done content looks differnent. you dont add scenes/dialogs/etc which dont fit and which are unique and not copied from other because its a lot of work. you dont have time for this.
rushed content is lack of scenes. if something is copied from other scene is a matter of not deleting of some not feating things.
there a several of "added" content that dont fit. breath scene is one example. turning to husk with tims eyes is second, starchild made of 3 voices if third, bleeding scene after tim death in another.
normandy scene could be just bad writing. they dont have time to script all versions of you LI, crew and party in final part. they made it simple.

they are money strange parts in me3 but they have explanation. we all know that shepard in scenes are soldier, thats why he is so lame and shoot with this stupid predator all the time. making 6 different scenes for all possible classes would be just to hard do make. how you want to make scene with kai leng in citadel with vanguard shepard? instead of running away shepard should just charge, use shotgun and gather the corpse of this idiot.
this is needed compromise. but ending looks just strange.

[KevShep]

EpyonX3 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


No she doesn't mention anything about Indoctrination. You guys are making that up. The quote is, "We don't know what happened in the war, we only heard discourdence, songs of oliy shadows..." She then goes on to say that a tone from space produced sour yello notes that silenced the songs one by one. That was the end of the rachni war when they were blasted to peices.

Wrong...She says that you are fighting the ones responsable, and then she says that when the time comes her voice will join with yours in the fight.

Nope, she said was referring to the current events. She's fighting those responsible for capturing her and running experiments on them. To return the favor of releasing her, she'd help you later.

"You are not in harmony with those who seek to control us."

The conversation was about something soured the songs of our mothers in the rachni war.

It was about the rachni war and that meant it was Sovereign which means that it was about Indoctrination!

No, the war comment came as a response to Shepards inquiry about the war. The queen was an egg at the time so it doesn't know what happened and why, just that she could hear here people die. It had nothing to do with Soveriegn.

Shepard asked the question because he/she thought that the rachni would do war again and that she was saying that war was NOT there choice....indoctrination.

It's odd that you can read a line like this: "We do not know what happened in the war"

And deduce that she said: "Oh yeah they were all indoctrinated by a reaper named Sovereign who made us evil and started a war with everyone."

Replay the scene again, there are two different things going on here. When you replay it, come back here and tell me if you still feel the same way.

you have trouble seeing between the lines. They say we dont know what happend but they also say that something soured the songs of our mothers. She then says that she believes that you are fighting the ones responsible. Shepard(and you) know about indoctrination and that sovereign was behinde alot before this latest plan.

[EpyonX3]

estebanus wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...


Yes, that is the face value representation, I still don't beleive that Shep could survive this:

He's survived worse. I already responded to the first time you posted this. This doesn't validate IT. Nor does it make my point invalid.

No he hasn't.

if your talking about him re-entering in me2..... he had him helmet+amor on, they said he wouldnt of had survived if not for his helmet. 


they also spent TWO YEARS fixing him up.

so here (with no armor) he survinged a major explosion, ANOTHER re-entry (earth is also more massive than the other planet), and can start breathing right away?

Not only that, but Shepard actually died in ME2's beginning, S/he didn't survive...

Shepard dies but the body survived enough to be rebuilt. Under the given circumstances of his death, rebuilding him would have been impossibles since he should have been turned to plasma upon reentry. If a suit can take that much damage, how the hell can you even die in the game from silly little thermal bullets.

Now a rebuilt Shepard with synthetic parts is on the citadel and gets rocked by an explosion, which its fire only lasts about a second is supposed to be killed by it?

[IronSabbath88]

rachellouise wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

The Rachni are generally a peaceful race. This is made evident by the Queen herself. They were indoctrinated, hence why they started the war in the first place.

Not really, wrex and eve are pretty peaceful, doesn't mean all  krogan are.

That's silly justification. There was no evidence of the Rachni being hostile before the Wars. Even Javik remembers them. Infact the ONLY time you hear bad things about them is during the Rachni Wars.

It's clear indoctrination played a part, when you meet the Queen in ME3, she's FURIOUS. They have had this happen before just not on this level.

No it's not. You can't say a whole species/race is usually peaceful, because one is. Again Wrex, and eve are quite peaceful , is wreave? He wouldn't lead the Krogan the same way,. There's nothing to say the racnhi queens have shared the same outlook.

Like someone said before, the Rachni are a HIVE MIND. A hive mind does what it's told by whoever is leading it. If the leader is indoctrinated, the entire pack is indoctrinated.

If the leader is normal, so is the entire pack. The Rachni kept to themselves before the Wars.

[EpyonX3]

KevShep wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


No she doesn't mention anything about Indoctrination. You guys are making that up. The quote is, "We don't know what happened in the war, we only heard discourdence, songs of oliy shadows..." She then goes on to say that a tone from space produced sour yello notes that silenced the songs one by one. That was the end of the rachni war when they were blasted to peices.

Wrong...She says that you are fighting the ones responsable, and then she says that when the time comes her voice will join with yours in the fight.

Nope, she said was referring to the current events. She's fighting those responsible for capturing her and running experiments on them. To return the favor of releasing her, she'd help you later.

"You are not in harmony with those who seek to control us."

The conversation was about something soured the songs of our mothers in the rachni war.

It was about the rachni war and that meant it was Sovereign which means that it was about Indoctrination!

No, the war comment came as a response to Shepards inquiry about the war. The queen was an egg at the time so it doesn't know what happened and why, just that she could hear here people die. It had nothing to do with Soveriegn.

Shepard asked the question because he/she thought that the rachni would do war again and that she was saying that war was NOT there choice....indoctrination.

It's odd that you can read a line like this: "We do not know what happened in the war"

And deduce that she said: "Oh yeah they were all indoctrinated by a reaper named Sovereign who made us evil and started a war with everyone."

Replay the scene again, there are two different things going on here. When you replay it, come back here and tell me if you still feel the same way.

you have trouble seeing between the lines. They say we dont know what happend but they also say that something soured the songs of our mothers. She then says that she believes that you are fighting the ones responsible. Shepard(and you) know about indoctrination and that sovereign was behinde alot before this latest plan.

Yes something soured the songs. The mass killing of their entire race! They lost the war and were believed to be extinct. There are no hidden messages here. Like I said originally, you guys made the link up to justify your theory.

Again look at that scene once more.

[rachellouise]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

The Rachni are generally a peaceful race. This is made evident by the Queen herself. They were indoctrinated, hence why they started the war in the first place.

Not really, wrex and eve are pretty peaceful, doesn't mean all  krogan are.

That's silly justification. There was no evidence of the Rachni being hostile before the Wars. Even Javik remembers them. Infact the ONLY time you hear bad things about them is during the Rachni Wars.

It's clear indoctrination played a part, when you meet the Queen in ME3, she's FURIOUS. They have had this happen before just not on this level.

No it's not. You can't say a whole species/race is usually peaceful, because one is. Again Wrex, and eve are quite peaceful , is wreave? He wouldn't lead the Krogan the same way,. There's nothing to say the racnhi queens have shared the same outlook.

Like someone said before, the Rachni are a HIVE MIND. A hive mind does what it's told by whoever is leading it. If the leader is indoctrinated, the entire pack is indoctrinated.

If the leader is normal, so is the entire pack. The Rachni kept to themselves before the Wars.

There is only one queen at a time. One queen may not lead the same as another one.  So I don't get what you're saying.