1057 réponses à ce sujet

[cdancidhe]

I believed on the IT but thought BioWare was going to reveal it once everyone had time to finish the game. I believe there were some statements from BW saying they wanted to wait for players to finish the game before making comments. So I waited and waited and nothing.

If IT was true would have been on BW best interest to reveal it, so people would hold to the games. Really disappointed on the lack of explanation from BW. All they release is PR stuff that does not tell anything.


My 2 cents.

[rachellouise]

If shepard survived the explosion, it could be  thanks to TIM. You're dead when recovered by cerberus. The synthetics probably help your organs etc. (as in heart etc..just in case ) So the synthetic stuff could save you again?

Modifié par rachellouise, 13 avril 2012 - 04:50 .

[Astrogenesis]

The Starchild is the Kid from the begining.
The image of the Kid is in Shep's mind, and his dreams.
The only way the Starchild could get the image of the Kid is if he had access to Shep's mind.
So someone/thing is clearly accessing Shep's mind.

Now you could say that the Starchild is a Being Of Light (google it) and that it chose to present itself in human form to make it easier for Shep (see Contact,1997) It just so happened that the image of the human it chose was the Kid from the begining.
My argument to that is, Shep has been all across the Galaxy, seen it all. I'm pretty sure Shep would be able to comprihend what ever shape it took.

[Dead_Meat357]

Master Che wrote...

Dead_Meat357 wrote...

crappyjazzy wrote...

I think it's an interesting and imaginative theory.

It makes sense of the nonsense at the end of the game. That's why people like it. They want things to make sense. Much of the indoctrination theory's evidence is pretty hard to refute in the current context of the game, but some of what's presented is really pretty lame and a bit of a stretch. While I think the theory has a few holes it does have fewer holes than the endings themselves have. Which is interesting by itself.

Honestly Indoctrination is the only thing that can save the ending in my opinion. The ending is so bad and full of deus ex machina that it needs to be thrown out entirely. The indoctrination theory basically gives them a blank check to say this all represents Shepard's struggle against it, and then throw it all out and write a good ending. That's what I think they should do but BioWare is too proud to admit they were wrong and that they wrote a ****ty ending.

For financial and time reasons I can see why this may not appeal to them, in which case I'd say save it for Mass Effect 4.

Without debating the reasons why people like it or discussing the disatisfaction with the current ending, were there any holes you cared to expound on?

The main one I haven't been able to prove myself is the whole left channel -female Shepard's voice and right channel - Male Shepard's voice for the Catalyst. This one sounded like it was reaching a bit. I've never heard anyone concretely say this was actually true. I know the video by Acavyos or whatever his name is says it, but that's the first I heard of it. I haven't wanted to go back through the ending, but the videos I've seen online don't seem to hold true. I've tried adjusting the sound to kill one channel or the other and it still never did sound like Female or Male Shepard's voice. In fact it sounded exactly like the kid ihe air duct, but digitally altered to have that metallic tone to it.

Other supposed evidence concerning the Catalyst's facial expressions etc. also don't seem to be true. I also never got that we had our dead squad mate in the rubble on Earth before walking into the beam. There are pictures of lixelated garbage from either low end PC's or console versions and it never seemed to have any accuracy whatsoever. Basically the main stuff I refute is the tiny visual queues that are more like Jesus sightings in pancakes than actual evidence of anything.

[TheTrueObelus]

You mean prove a negative? Umm if somebody sees the face of Jesus in their mash potatoes does that mean there's a god? How could I prove there isn't?

That's IT theory. It's people seeing what they want to see. Every hole in the theory is easily glossed over by people saying it's "indoctrination"...it's like a dream. It doesn't have to make total sense.

Basically IT theory makes a basic assumption...Shepard is being indoctrinated...which cannot be proven.

[NM_Che56]

Here's another one:

Shooting the tube: Infinite ammo is a game mechanic like in the beggining. If you run out of ammo, then you'll just be STUCK. Not being able to kill a Keeper or Anderson? You can't kill your squadmates on missions either!

[NM_Che56]

Dead_Meat357 wrote...

Master Che wrote...

Dead_Meat357 wrote...

crappyjazzy wrote...

I think it's an interesting and imaginative theory.

It makes sense of the nonsense at the end of the game. That's why people like it. They want things to make sense. Much of the indoctrination theory's evidence is pretty hard to refute in the current context of the game, but some of what's presented is really pretty lame and a bit of a stretch. While I think the theory has a few holes it does have fewer holes than the endings themselves have. Which is interesting by itself.

Honestly Indoctrination is the only thing that can save the ending in my opinion. The ending is so bad and full of deus ex machina that it needs to be thrown out entirely. The indoctrination theory basically gives them a blank check to say this all represents Shepard's struggle against it, and then throw it all out and write a good ending. That's what I think they should do but BioWare is too proud to admit they were wrong and that they wrote a ****ty ending.

For financial and time reasons I can see why this may not appeal to them, in which case I'd say save it for Mass Effect 4.

Without debating the reasons why people like it or discussing the disatisfaction with the current ending, were there any holes you cared to expound on?

The main one I haven't been able to prove myself is the whole left channel -female Shepard's voice and right channel - Male Shepard's voice for the Catalyst. This one sounded like it was reaching a bit. I've never heard anyone concretely say this was actually true. I know the video by Acavyos or whatever his name is says it, but that's the first I heard of it. I haven't wanted to go back through the ending, but the videos I've seen online don't seem to hold true. I've tried adjusting the sound to kill one channel or the other and it still never did sound like Female or Male Shepard's voice. In fact it sounded exactly like the kid ihe air duct, but digitally altered to have that metallic tone to it.

Other supposed evidence concerning the Catalyst's facial expressions etc. also don't seem to be true. I also never got that we had our dead squad mate in the rubble on Earth before walking into the beam. There are pictures of lixelated garbage from either low end PC's or console versions and it never seemed to have any accuracy whatsoever. Basically the main stuff I refute is the tiny visual queues that are more like Jesus sightings in pancakes than actual evidence of anything.

I can't hear it, but other say they can.  I guess it depends on equipment? I don't know.  I can't support it because I can't make it out.

The "body wallpaper" is a stretch for me, but I dont' think either of these are cornerstones in the Theory.

[rachellouise]

Astrogenesis wrote...

The Starchild is the Kid from the begining.
The image of the Kid is in Shep's mind, and his dreams.
The only way the Starchild could get the image of the Kid is if he had access to Shep's mind.
So someone/thing is clearly accessing Shep's mind.

Now you could say that the Starchild is a Being Of Light (google it) and that it chose to present itself in human form to make it easier for Shep (see Contact,1997) It just so happened that the image of the human it chose was the Kid from the begining.
My argument to that is, Shep has been all across the Galaxy, seen it all. I'm pretty sure Shep would be able to comprihend what ever shape it took.

But it could be shepard putting that form onto it, maybe the BoL does not have any say in how it appears to the viewer.

Maybe the beings of light have similar 'powers' to the protheans, except more advanced; they can read shepard, just by being near to them.

We don't know much about them.

Modifié par rachellouise, 13 avril 2012 - 04:56 .

[NM_Che56]

TheTrueObelus wrote...

You mean prove a negative? Umm if somebody sees the face of Jesus in their mash potatoes does that mean there's a god? How could I prove there isn't?

That's IT theory. It's people seeing what they want to see. Every hole in the theory is easily glossed over by people saying it's "indoctrination"...it's like a dream. It doesn't have to make total sense.

Basically IT theory makes a basic assumption...Shepard is being indoctrinated...which cannot be proven.

IT theory does not involve Jesus or mashed potatoes. 

Please select a key element of the theory.

[Nauks]

STEEEEVE wrote...

I don't like IT because
1.) It's unfalsifiable
2.) The devs have made numerous statements that they want the ending to stand on its own, not be a metaphor
3.) I don't like fan fiction, and that's literally all IT is. BAD fan fiction at that.
4.) Indoctrination theory makes Shepard's story incomplete, which is exactly the opposite of what ME3 is. It's the conclusion of Shepard's story. IT people will say "well bioware lied about all this other stuff" sorry, but that doesn't fly. Their word still has more authority towards lore than your fan fiction.

Say what you will about Bioware and their handeling of the ending situation.

But if they did plan this as a social experiment of sorts, to indoctrinate us, the player, as well as Shepard, they would (should?) stick to their guns and not tell us about it right away.
Some leeway in their statements regarding what they have in store for the ending would make sense no?

[IronSabbath88]

TheTrueObelus wrote...

You mean prove a negative? Umm if somebody sees the face of Jesus in their mash potatoes does that mean there's a god? How could I prove there isn't?

That's IT theory. It's people seeing what they want to see. Every hole in the theory is easily glossed over by people saying it's "indoctrination"...it's like a dream. It doesn't have to make total sense.

Basically IT theory makes a basic assumption...Shepard is being indoctrinated...which cannot be proven.

Seeing someone in your potatoes isn't exactly an occurence that happens every time. However EVERY time you put Mass Effect, whichever game it may be into the tray and play it, indoctrination hits you in the face like a brick. Because it's been established within the universe that it's entirely possible and by all accounts is Nightmare Fuel. Whose to say Shepard is immune?

[Astrogenesis]

cdancidhe wrote...

I believed on the IT but thought BioWare was going to reveal it once everyone had time to finish the game. I believe there were some statements from BW saying they wanted to wait for players to finish the game before making comments. So I waited and waited and nothing.

If IT was true would have been on BW best interest to reveal it, so people would hold to the games. Really disappointed on the lack of explanation from BW. All they release is PR stuff that does not tell anything.


My 2 cents.

Even if IT was bioware's original plan, they will never reveal it now.

Why?

Because, if the come out and say that the ending was in Shep's head, then that would mean that the game would pick up right it the end of the final push, meaning that the REAL ending was not in the game.
FANS RAGE, BIOWARE DIES!
Now they could hold back info on th extended cut and then reveal that IT is true and give us an awsome REAL ending and most people will be OK with it.

[AnsinJung]

Master Che wrote...

Fair enough, I'll start.

I saw a vlog from gamermd83 where she identified a "loop hole". She took issue with the claim that star brat was really a Reaper projection into Shepard's consciousness by indicating that the artbook says the kid represents Sheps guilt and nothing more.

My response: The image of a child was chosen for that particular reason. They knew it would affect him/her.

Argument: When did Shepard ever show sympathy towards kids? WHY WOULD THAT EVEN MATTER?

Response: Children elicit empathy and nuturing instincts in most people. Children represent helplessness and vulenerability. So given that Shepard is a well adjusted, normal human, then s/he would not be impervious to the charms of a cherubic face.

I just picked up the Witcher and I actually care about the kid in that game.  He doesn't even sound like an adult voice acting a kid that much (other kids in the game do though).  I agree with your argument, although either IT is true, or they presented that kid rather poorly (nonetheless, I liked the nightmares except for the extent of the slowdown).

[NM_Che56]

Astrogenesis wrote...

The Starchild is the Kid from the begining.
The image of the Kid is in Shep's mind, and his dreams.
The only way the Starchild could get the image of the Kid is if he had access to Shep's mind.
So someone/thing is clearly accessing Shep's mind.

Now you could say that the Starchild is a Being Of Light (google it) and that it chose to present itself in human form to make it easier for Shep (see Contact,1997) It just so happened that the image of the human it chose was the Kid from the begining.
My argument to that is, Shep has been all across the Galaxy, seen it all. I'm pretty sure Shep would be able to comprihend what ever shape it took.

But the star child and duct rat look to be the same.  They both have hoodies. LOL. FASHION!

I don't think the point was for it to be "comprehensible".  He comprehended Vigil and he was a pixilated mess.  I think the point was to drop Sheps defenses by presenting him with an image of a child.

[NM_Che56]

AnsinJung wrote...

Master Che wrote...

Fair enough, I'll start.

I saw a vlog from gamermd83 where she identified a "loop hole". She took issue with the claim that star brat was really a Reaper projection into Shepard's consciousness by indicating that the artbook says the kid represents Sheps guilt and nothing more.

My response: The image of a child was chosen for that particular reason. They knew it would affect him/her.

Argument: When did Shepard ever show sympathy towards kids? WHY WOULD THAT EVEN MATTER?

Response: Children elicit empathy and nuturing instincts in most people. Children represent helplessness and vulenerability. So given that Shepard is a well adjusted, normal human, then s/he would not be impervious to the charms of a cherubic face.

I just picked up the Witcher and I actually care about the kid in that game.  He doesn't even sound like an adult voice acting a kid that much (other kids in the game do though).  I agree with your argument, although either IT is true, or they presented that kid rather poorly (nonetheless, I liked the nightmares except for the extent of the slowdown).

The nightmare scenes irked me until I learned about IT.  Otherwise, they could have been cutscenes.  next playthru I'm not making a b line for the brat.  I'm going to look around a bit.

[NM_Che56]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

Problem with IT? Simple. Read my signature. BioWare never intended people to create an alternative where Shepard was indoctrinated. They just want to destroy their IPs. Thats all.

That's not a problem with the Theory itself as it is with the fact that it exists.

That being said, were there any parts of IT that you think are problematic other than it being in existance?

[KevShep]

TheTrueObelus wrote...

You mean prove a negative? Umm if somebody sees the face of Jesus in their mash potatoes does that mean there's a god? How could I prove there isn't?

That's IT theory. It's people seeing what they want to see. Every hole in the theory is easily glossed over by people saying it's "indoctrination"...it's like a dream. It doesn't have to make total sense.

Basically IT theory makes a basic assumption...Shepard is being indoctrinated...which cannot be proven.

There is a reason that BioWare wanted "speculations from Everyone". They wanted to see who all can figure it out.

Like Ive said...please tell me how come you can hear shepards voice (its wispered) repeating everything the catalyst is saying but shepards lips are not moving? You have to hear it with headphones for it to work and the reason is that you have to listen with one  headphone at a time to hear left femshep and right maleshep.

[NM_Che56]

KevShep wrote...

TheTrueObelus wrote...

You mean prove a negative? Umm if somebody sees the face of Jesus in their mash potatoes does that mean there's a god? How could I prove there isn't?

That's IT theory. It's people seeing what they want to see. Every hole in the theory is easily glossed over by people saying it's "indoctrination"...it's like a dream. It doesn't have to make total sense.

Basically IT theory makes a basic assumption...Shepard is being indoctrinated...which cannot be proven.

There is a reason that BioWare wanted "speculations from Everyone". They wanted to see who all can figure it out.

I think that's what is pissing some people off: They don't want to figure it out and have a delayed reveal.  They want to know it now and in game.

That's why people keep raging with "It's not in the game" and "Fanfiction".

[rachellouise]

KevShep wrote...

TheTrueObelus wrote...

You mean prove a negative? Umm if somebody sees the face of Jesus in their mash potatoes does that mean there's a god? How could I prove there isn't?

That's IT theory. It's people seeing what they want to see. Every hole in the theory is easily glossed over by people saying it's "indoctrination"...it's like a dream. It doesn't have to make total sense.

Basically IT theory makes a basic assumption...Shepard is being indoctrinated...which cannot be proven.

There is a reason that BioWare wanted "speculations from Everyone". They wanted to see who all can figure it out.

Like Ive said...please tell me how come you can hear shepards voice (its wispered) repeating everything the catalyst is saying but shepards lips are not moving? You have to hear it with headphones for it to work and the reason is that you have to listen with one  headphone at a time to hear left femshep and right maleshep.

why would male shepard hear femshep's voice?  They probably chose those three because they were different pitches etc, and played together they can make the kid sound 'other worldly'.

[KevShep]

Master Che wrote...

KevShep wrote...

TheTrueObelus wrote...

You mean prove a negative? Umm if somebody sees the face of Jesus in their mash potatoes does that mean there's a god? How could I prove there isn't?

That's IT theory. It's people seeing what they want to see. Every hole in the theory is easily glossed over by people saying it's "indoctrination"...it's like a dream. It doesn't have to make total sense.

Basically IT theory makes a basic assumption...Shepard is being indoctrinated...which cannot be proven.

There is a reason that BioWare wanted "speculations from Everyone". They wanted to see who all can figure it out.

I think that's what is pissing some people off: They don't want to figure it out and have a delayed reveal.  They want to know it now and in game.

That's why people keep raging with "It's not in the game" and "Fanfiction".

This is why Bioware keeps holding on to "artistic Integrity" thing. It all makes senes but people just dont look at whats there very well.

[NM_Che56]

Astrogenesis wrote...

cdancidhe wrote...

I believed on the IT but thought BioWare was going to reveal it once everyone had time to finish the game. I believe there were some statements from BW saying they wanted to wait for players to finish the game before making comments. So I waited and waited and nothing.

If IT was true would have been on BW best interest to reveal it, so people would hold to the games. Really disappointed on the lack of explanation from BW. All they release is PR stuff that does not tell anything.


My 2 cents.

Even if IT was bioware's original plan, they will never reveal it now.

Why?

Because, if the come out and say that the ending was in Shep's head, then that would mean that the game would pick up right it the end of the final push, meaning that the REAL ending was not in the game.
FANS RAGE, BIOWARE DIES!
Now they could hold back info on th extended cut and then reveal that IT is true and give us an awsome REAL ending and most people will be OK with it.

I'd be curious to know how many ME3 owners have access to XBOX Live or PSN (i'm assuming if you use a computer then Origin access is a given...it's a COMPUTER).  If a good number of people don't access DLC because they can't (i.e. no internet), then I think it would be nuclear death if they go with IT in the DLC. 

HOWEVER, if the majority of players DO access those networks, then I think it won't blow up in their face too much.  And it's free!

[KevShep]

rachellouise wrote...

KevShep wrote...

TheTrueObelus wrote...

You mean prove a negative? Umm if somebody sees the face of Jesus in their mash potatoes does that mean there's a god? How could I prove there isn't?

That's IT theory. It's people seeing what they want to see. Every hole in the theory is easily glossed over by people saying it's "indoctrination"...it's like a dream. It doesn't have to make total sense.

Basically IT theory makes a basic assumption...Shepard is being indoctrinated...which cannot be proven.

There is a reason that BioWare wanted "speculations from Everyone". They wanted to see who all can figure it out.

Like Ive said...please tell me how come you can hear shepards voice (its wispered) repeating everything the catalyst is saying but shepards lips are not moving? You have to hear it with headphones for it to work and the reason is that you have to listen with one  headphone at a time to hear left femshep and right maleshep.

why would male shepard hear femshep's voice?  They probably chose those three because they were different pitches etc, and played together they can make the kid sound 'other worldly'.

Really man?      Go and see for yourself! and then ask yourself why would they ues there voices at all?

[NM_Che56]

rachellouise wrote...

KevShep wrote...

TheTrueObelus wrote...

You mean prove a negative? Umm if somebody sees the face of Jesus in their mash potatoes does that mean there's a god? How could I prove there isn't?

That's IT theory. It's people seeing what they want to see. Every hole in the theory is easily glossed over by people saying it's "indoctrination"...it's like a dream. It doesn't have to make total sense.

Basically IT theory makes a basic assumption...Shepard is being indoctrinated...which cannot be proven.

There is a reason that BioWare wanted "speculations from Everyone". They wanted to see who all can figure it out.

Like Ive said...please tell me how come you can hear shepards voice (its wispered) repeating everything the catalyst is saying but shepards lips are not moving? You have to hear it with headphones for it to work and the reason is that you have to listen with one  headphone at a time to hear left femshep and right maleshep.

why would male shepard hear femshep's voice?  They probably chose those three because they were different pitches etc, and played together they can make the kid sound 'other worldly'.

To cover both bases regardless if you picked male or female shep?

[KevShep]

Master Che wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

KevShep wrote...

TheTrueObelus wrote...

You mean prove a negative? Umm if somebody sees the face of Jesus in their mash potatoes does that mean there's a god? How could I prove there isn't?

That's IT theory. It's people seeing what they want to see. Every hole in the theory is easily glossed over by people saying it's "indoctrination"...it's like a dream. It doesn't have to make total sense.

Basically IT theory makes a basic assumption...Shepard is being indoctrinated...which cannot be proven.

There is a reason that BioWare wanted "speculations from Everyone". They wanted to see who all can figure it out.

Like Ive said...please tell me how come you can hear shepards voice (its wispered) repeating everything the catalyst is saying but shepards lips are not moving? You have to hear it with headphones for it to work and the reason is that you have to listen with one  headphone at a time to hear left femshep and right maleshep.

why would male shepard hear femshep's voice?  They probably chose those three because they were different pitches etc, and played together they can make the kid sound 'other worldly'.

To cover both bases regardless if you picked male or female shep?

The question is ...WHY is shepard repeating everything the catalyst is saying. It sounds like he is saying it in his/her head...just...like...indoctrination would!