1057 réponses à ce sujet

[Falloutwarfare]

@rachellouise you got me there but i still find it weird that something that relates to the rachni being influenced by the reapers appearing in shepards dreams I.E. the shadows

[balance5050]

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

She said nothing of the mass killing of her race, it was about why her people attacked. I think its you that need to go back and look at what was said and when. Your right there is nothing hidden here so why are you saying it was exo geni that the rachni are going to fight for them being resposable for souring the songs of there mothers....Exo Geni was not around in the rachni wars!

"Their ways of perception, thinking and communications seem to be
different from that of other races, and based upon a synesthetic
perception of sound as both sound and color. Rachni communication is
geared towards frequencies beyond normal sonic range, and also makes use
of a form of mind-to-mind information transfer - telepathy.

They regard
speech and thought as forms of music, as shown by the strange metaphors
used when attempting to communicate, for example, "songs the color of
oily shadow". The speech patterns used by them in such occasions are
also unusual; "When we speak, one moves all". They refer to their manner
of communication as "singing", which soothes and nurtures their young,
and this appears to colour their entire psychology - for example, the
rachni speak of death as "the great silence", and refer to their
homeworld as the "singing planet".

The rachni ability to genetically
share knowledge across generations makes queens a vast repository of
information."

Source: http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Rachni

The shadows at the end signify indoctrination, it's a mind control thing as signified by shepard rubbing his temple at 1:50 inthis video:

http://www.youtube.c...N3xtUu44#t=105s

I'd say it signified his head being invaded by TIM not indoctrination. His body was under control but his mind clearly wasn't. And we see similar effects when Saren turns into a husk in ME1.

I can play all day troll;)

So.. it signifies his head being invaded by TIM, but his mind clearly wasn't under control? Not ure which head you're referring to.

"And we see similar effects when Saren turns into a husk in ME1. "

- Very good, we see this in "the arrival" DLC as well, it's called reaper indictrination  

[rachellouise]

I don't know what they are. In my head they are all the 'faceless' people who shepard could not save. As long as we're speculating, we're doing our part xD

[llbountyhunter]

jijeebo wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

ShepardTheHopeful wrote...

The Protheans wrote...

There are no holes in the Indoctrination Theory.
You have my sympathy and thoughts if you think otherwise, I wish you the best in life and hope you can seek closure to your problems.

There are tons of holes in the Indoctrination Theory. You have my sympathy and thoughts if you think otherwise. I wish you the best in life and hope you can see closure to your problems. 

can you please state REAL counter-arguments, and not "lack of polish" or something similar?

Lack of polish is just as valid as anything related to IT theory, if not more so because it has actual evidence to back it up i.e. Avenger fever.

not really.... what more logical...

bioware a producer whos managed even greater game twists than the one we are discusing now (KOTOR) suddenly got drunk/high when making the last five minutes of the game...

or actually made a good ending with alot of clues that are pretty obvious, so that the twist can be seen?

Or Casey Hudson and Mac Walters had a massive ego trip, locked themselves away from the rest of the writers and made the endings all on their own... And completely mucked it up and claimed artistic integrity.

outside of the game both are equaly plausible, but inside the game IT has more evidence (could be because they messed it up...) but thats why I perfer IT.

[yarpenthemad21]

jijeebo wrote...

ME3 would have been 100% more badass if cutscene Shepard was a vanguard. 

oh yes...and i will be very very different cutscenes
kai leng on citadel. charge, shoot, gather corpse. thane alive

so no leng on thesia and cerburs HQ. shepard gets prothean VI

grunt scene. with ravagers. shep just charge, kill them with nova spam, no heroic grunt. 

mars. ewa run. charge, shot, gather corpse. noone hurt. kaidan/ashley stay on normandy.

vanguard is killing machine. cant be outrunned. cant be defeated in mellee. its high class biotic with shotgun. so yes , cutscens with shepard vanguard would be great. not some lame idiot with predator. 

[EpyonX3]

KevShep wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

She said nothing of the mass killing of her race, it was about why her people attacked. I think its you that need to go back and look at what was said and when. Your right there is nothing hidden here so why are you saying it was exo geni that the rachni are going to fight for them being resposable for souring the songs of there mothers....Exo Geni was not around in the rachni wars!

"Their ways of perception, thinking and communications seem to be
different from that of other races, and based upon a synesthetic
perception of sound as both sound and color. Rachni communication is
geared towards frequencies beyond normal sonic range, and also makes use
of a form of mind-to-mind information transfer - telepathy.

They regard
speech and thought as forms of music, as shown by the strange metaphors
used when attempting to communicate, for example, "songs the color of
oily shadow". The speech patterns used by them in such occasions are
also unusual; "When we speak, one moves all". They refer to their manner
of communication as "singing", which soothes and nurtures their young,
and this appears to colour their entire psychology - for example, the
rachni speak of death as "the great silence", and refer to their
homeworld as the "singing planet".

The rachni ability to genetically
share knowledge across generations makes queens a vast repository of
information."

Source: http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Rachni

They are hive mind...this has already been known.  what are you saying?

If that's what you got from it then I'm done.

You have not been specific this whole time. you keep going from Exo Geni to them no being indoctrinated to the conversation about something that your not making clear.

If its not about indoctrination then what was the conversation about between shepard and the queen?

Never said anything about Exo Geni!

The conversation goes as follows:

The queen talks to you
Shepard asks how it's possible
Queen explains how it speaks telepathically and how they see their communication as colors.
After the queen senses that Shepard is againsts those who captured her Queen asks to be released or put out of her misery
THEN! you get an investigate option.

In that investigate option is the question, what happened during the wars. This is where the oily shadows comment comes from. Has nothing to do with reapers.



Shepard asks

[EpyonX3]

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

She said nothing of the mass killing of her race, it was about why her people attacked. I think its you that need to go back and look at what was said and when. Your right there is nothing hidden here so why are you saying it was exo geni that the rachni are going to fight for them being resposable for souring the songs of there mothers....Exo Geni was not around in the rachni wars!

"Their ways of perception, thinking and communications seem to be
different from that of other races, and based upon a synesthetic
perception of sound as both sound and color. Rachni communication is
geared towards frequencies beyond normal sonic range, and also makes use
of a form of mind-to-mind information transfer - telepathy.

They regard
speech and thought as forms of music, as shown by the strange metaphors
used when attempting to communicate, for example, "songs the color of
oily shadow". The speech patterns used by them in such occasions are
also unusual; "When we speak, one moves all". They refer to their manner
of communication as "singing", which soothes and nurtures their young,
and this appears to colour their entire psychology - for example, the
rachni speak of death as "the great silence", and refer to their
homeworld as the "singing planet".

The rachni ability to genetically
share knowledge across generations makes queens a vast repository of
information."

Source: http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Rachni

The shadows at the end signify indoctrination, it's a mind control thing as signified by shepard rubbing his temple at 1:50 inthis video:

http://www.youtube.c...N3xtUu44#t=105s

I'd say it signified his head being invaded by TIM not indoctrination. His body was under control but his mind clearly wasn't. And we see similar effects when Saren turns into a husk in ME1.

I can play all day troll;)

So.. it signifies his head being invaded by TIM, but his mind clearly wasn't under control? Not ure which head you're referring to.

"And we see similar effects when Saren turns into a husk in ME1. "

- Very good, we see this in "the arrival" DLC as well, it's called reaper indictrination  

His brain obviously. Your brain and mind are two different things. Just like Shepard's mind was lost when he died in ME2 but his brain stayed in tact enough to be rebuilt. TIM controlled his body through his brain, but not his thought process.

But you miss the point about ME1 wavey lines. The target wasn't Shepard, but we saw the lines anyway. What does that suggest.

I don't see wavey black lines in Arrival. That's something I'm going to have to replay.

[majinbuu1307]

< Is on reality side.

[balance5050]

majinbuu1307 wrote...

< Is on reality side.

Hey Buu, ready for a spirit bomb!!??

[rachellouise]

majinbuu1307 wrote...

< Is on reality side.

You still know what reality is? I think I lost sense of it a while ago. I literally dreamt of the geth the other night ;;

Modifié par rachellouise, 13 avril 2012 - 09:56 .

[jijeebo]

yarpenthemad21 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

ME3 would have been 100% more badass if cutscene Shepard was a vanguard. 

oh yes...and i will be very very different cutscenes
kai leng on citadel. charge, shoot, gather corpse. thane alive

so no leng on thesia and cerburs HQ. shepard gets prothean VI

grunt scene. with ravagers. shep just charge, kill them with nova spam, no heroic grunt. 

mars. ewa run. charge, shot, gather corpse. noone hurt. kaidan/ashley stay on normandy.

vanguard is killing machine. cant be outrunned. cant be defeated in mellee. its high class biotic with shotgun. so yes , cutscens with shepard vanguard would be great. not some lame idiot with predator. 

Starchild: I control the reapers, they are my solu...

Shepard: YAAAAAAARGH


*SHTOOOOOOOOM*

Starchild: Aiee, DAFUQ?

Shepard: SHOTGUN!

*BOOM*

Starchild: *dead*

Shepard: 

[KevShep]

EpyonX3 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

She said nothing of the mass killing of her race, it was about why her people attacked. I think its you that need to go back and look at what was said and when. Your right there is nothing hidden here so why are you saying it was exo geni that the rachni are going to fight for them being resposable for souring the songs of there mothers....Exo Geni was not around in the rachni wars!

"Their ways of perception, thinking and communications seem to be
different from that of other races, and based upon a synesthetic
perception of sound as both sound and color. Rachni communication is
geared towards frequencies beyond normal sonic range, and also makes use
of a form of mind-to-mind information transfer - telepathy.

They regard
speech and thought as forms of music, as shown by the strange metaphors
used when attempting to communicate, for example, "songs the color of
oily shadow". The speech patterns used by them in such occasions are
also unusual; "When we speak, one moves all". They refer to their manner
of communication as "singing", which soothes and nurtures their young,
and this appears to colour their entire psychology - for example, the
rachni speak of death as "the great silence", and refer to their
homeworld as the "singing planet".

The rachni ability to genetically
share knowledge across generations makes queens a vast repository of
information."

Source: http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Rachni

They are hive mind...this has already been known.  what are you saying?

If that's what you got from it then I'm done.

You have not been specific this whole time. you keep going from Exo Geni to them no being indoctrinated to the conversation about something that your not making clear.

If its not about indoctrination then what was the conversation about between shepard and the queen?

Never said anything about Exo Geni!

The conversation goes as follows:

The queen talks to you
Shepard asks how it's possible
Queen explains how it speaks telepathically and how they see their communication as colors.
After the queen senses that Shepard is againsts those who captured her Queen asks to be released or put out of her misery
THEN! you get an investigate option.

In that investigate option is the question, what happened during the wars. This is where the oily shadows comment comes from. Has nothing to do with reapers.



Shepard asks

 from oil shadows was only an example to how they conmunicate and has nothing to do with anything.

Second you did (in a way) mention Exo Geni when I said that she says shepard is fighting the ones responsible for souring the songs of there mothers, You were saying that it was not sovereign/reapers(indoctrination) and then you did not say what it was and the only thing other then the reapers that it could be is Exo Geni.

Third if you run into an asari in ME2 then she states it more clearly that it was the reapers. Any time that the songs of our mothers comes up it is shepard asking about the war!...not the ones that captured her.

[ShepardTheHopeful]

llbountyhunter wrote...

ShepardTheHopeful wrote...

The Protheans wrote...

There are no holes in the Indoctrination Theory.
You have my sympathy and thoughts if you think otherwise, I wish you the best in life and hope you can seek closure to your problems.

There are tons of holes in the Indoctrination Theory. You have my sympathy and thoughts if you think otherwise. I wish you the best in life and hope you can see closure to your problems. 

can you please state REAL counter-arguments, and not "lack of polish" or something similar?

You referring to me or prothean because I've already stated 3 posts in this forum about my counter-arguments to IT. This comment was the be a smart arse. 

Modifié par ShepardTheHopeful, 13 avril 2012 - 10:05 .

[yarpenthemad21]

jijeebo wrote...

yarpenthemad21 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

ME3 would have been 100% more badass if cutscene Shepard was a vanguard. 

oh yes...and i will be very very different cutscenes
kai leng on citadel. charge, shoot, gather corpse. thane alive

so no leng on thesia and cerburs HQ. shepard gets prothean VI

grunt scene. with ravagers. shep just charge, kill them with nova spam, no heroic grunt. 

mars. ewa run. charge, shot, gather corpse. noone hurt. kaidan/ashley stay on normandy.

vanguard is killing machine. cant be outrunned. cant be defeated in mellee. its high class biotic with shotgun. so yes , cutscens with shepard vanguard would be great. not some lame idiot with predator. 

Starchild: I control the reapers, they are my solu...

Shepard: YAAAAAAARGH


*SHTOOOOOOOOM*

Starchild: Aiee, DAFUQ?

Shepard: SHOTGUN!

*BOOM*

Starchild: *dead*

Shepard: 

run the the beam scene

charge.
shepard inside the beam
harbinger: shouldnt i hit shepard ?! 

Modifié par yarpenthemad21, 13 avril 2012 - 10:03 .

[jijeebo]

yarpenthemad21 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

yarpenthemad21 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

ME3 would have been 100% more badass if cutscene Shepard was a vanguard. 

oh yes...and i will be very very different cutscenes
kai leng on citadel. charge, shoot, gather corpse. thane alive

so no leng on thesia and cerburs HQ. shepard gets prothean VI

grunt scene. with ravagers. shep just charge, kill them with nova spam, no heroic grunt. 

mars. ewa run. charge, shot, gather corpse. noone hurt. kaidan/ashley stay on normandy.

vanguard is killing machine. cant be outrunned. cant be defeated in mellee. its high class biotic with shotgun. so yes , cutscens with shepard vanguard would be great. not some lame idiot with predator. 

Starchild: I control the reapers, they are my solu...

Shepard: YAAAAAAARGH


*SHTOOOOOOOOM*

Starchild: Aiee, DAFUQ?

Shepard: SHOTGUN!

*BOOM*

Starchild: *dead*

Shepard: 

run the the beam scene

charge.
shepard inside the beam
harbinger: shouldnt i hit shepard ?! 

LOL

I can just see Starchild facepalming as Harbinger tries to figure out what just happened.

[isthisnameavailable]

but nobody has named in-game proof that counters IT! all I hear is "lack of polish" and bioware is not known for not "polishing" their games.

Off the top of my head I can think of two in game occurences that counter IT. They counter points made in ACAVYOS' video, where i think a lot of the IT speculation stems from.  The growling sound made when the child retreats into the vent at the beginning of the game is said to be the sound that occurs when an indoctrination attempt fails. But that sound can be heard throughout the opening level, not just at that time. It can also be heard on Tuchanka while activating the maw hammers.

Second, the video states that part of the reasoning behind the post harbinger blast being a dream is the fact that shrubs and trees are present when Shepard "awakes" that were not there before, and that they resemble the trees from his dreams, so he must be dreaming. That is false. They do not resemble those dream trees, and they are present before the beam hits you. You can see them from the top of the hill when you first arrive, and if you just walk down rather than run.
Also, if the dreams are a sign of indoctrination and the initial indoctrination attempt failed, why does shepard have the dreams?
There are other things but I cant recall them right now and this has already taken me an absurd amount of time to type for some reason, so...yeah. Two in game examples of something.

Modifié par isthisnameavailable, 13 avril 2012 - 10:18 .

[Galifreya]

Falloutwarfare wrote...

Gallifreya wrote...

Falloutwarfare wrote...

@rachellouise but the rachni queen does state (i think this is correct but correct me if im wrong) that during the rachni wars there was a sour yellow note in their song and also something about oily shadows that caused them to go to war...... now the yellow note could easily reference the reapers who when harbringer is controlling the collector general, the generals eyes light up yellow like a huskified chrismas tree.
As for the oily shadows where have we seen them.......... the dream sequences.

your move sir =D

Nice shot!

I'm being genuine. Referencing ME2 dialogue.

im confused as to what you meen

All I meant was, "Good point." But Miranda says, "Nice shot!" whenever your Shepard gets a headshot in ME2.

[balance5050]

@isthisnameavailable

Please clean up that pyramid.

[Hawk227]

KevShep wrote...

from oil shadows was only an example to how they conmunicate and has nothing to do with anything.

Second you did (in a way) mention Exo Geni when I said that she says shepard is fighting the ones responsible for souring the songs of there mothers, You were saying that it was not sovereign/reapers(indoctrination) and then you did not say what it was and the only thing other then the reapers that it could be is Exo Geni.

Third if you run into an asari in ME2 then she states it more clearly that it was the reapers. Any time that the songs of our mothers comes up it is shepard asking about the war!...not the ones that captured her.

QFT

The oily shadows thing comes up when you ask the queen about the original Rachni War. She says they only heard songs of discordance, the color of oily shadows.

www.youtube.com/watch Start at 3:35 for that line of questions.

In ME2 you meet an Asari on Illium who is working as an agent for the Rachni. She tells you that the Queen believes you(shepard) are fighting the ones responsible for the Rachni war, and pledges her help.

www.youtube.com/watch Start at 3:15 for that line

The Rachni were indoctrinated by Reapers and made to start the war. The Queen discribes that experience as songs the color of oily shadows.

PS: Exogeni because of the Thorian? The queen was actually held by Binary Helix. In case thats what you were thinking.

[EpyonX3]

KevShep wrote...


 from oil shadows was only an example to how they conmunicate and has nothing to do with anything.

Second you did (in a way) mention Exo Geni when I said that she says shepard is fighting the ones responsible for souring the songs of there mothers, You were saying that it was not sovereign/reapers(indoctrination) and then you did not say what it was and the only thing other then the reapers that it could be is Exo Geni.

Third if you run into an asari in ME2 then she states it more clearly that it was the reapers. Any time that the songs of our mothers comes up it is shepard asking about the war!...not the ones that captured her.

 I see the problem here. We are talking about the queen in two different games.

The Oily Shadows from ME1.

And the Sour Songs from ME 2.

You are right, I did indirectly mention Exogeni. However, my position still stands. The Oily shadows comment was not about the reapers. It was about the final days of the war in which their entire races was silenced one by one. If it were indoctrination, the songs wouldn't have been silences, they would have changed their tone.

When she says that she seeks those who soured the songs of their mothers, is he talking about ExoGeni or the reapers? Neither. In ME 2 Shepard is seeking the collectors, not reapers or exogeni. How are the collectors involved in this? Can collectors indoctrinate? This just opens up more questions and provides nothing to IT.

[isthisnameavailable]

balance5050 wrote...

@isthisnameavailable

Please clean up that pyramid.

Uh ya sorry. I'm one of those people that never post on forums so I feel really inept. I think I fixed it.

[KevShep]

EpyonX3 wrote...

KevShep wrote...


 from oil shadows was only an example to how they conmunicate and has nothing to do with anything.

Second you did (in a way) mention Exo Geni when I said that she says shepard is fighting the ones responsible for souring the songs of there mothers, You were saying that it was not sovereign/reapers(indoctrination) and then you did not say what it was and the only thing other then the reapers that it could be is Exo Geni.

Third if you run into an asari in ME2 then she states it more clearly that it was the reapers. Any time that the songs of our mothers comes up it is shepard asking about the war!...not the ones that captured her.

 I see the problem here. We are talking about the queen in two different games.

The Oily Shadows from ME1.

And the Sour Songs from ME 2.

You are right, I did indirectly mention Exogeni. However, my position still stands. The Oily shadows comment was not about the reapers. It was about the final days of the war in which their entire races was silenced one by one. If it were indoctrination, the songs wouldn't have been silences, they would have changed their tone.

When she says that she seeks those who soured the songs of their mothers, is he talking about ExoGeni or the reapers? Neither. In ME 2 Shepard is seeking the collectors, not reapers or exogeni. How are the collectors involved in this? Can collectors indoctrinate? This just opens up more questions and provides nothing to IT.

I see now... I still disagree I think the whole time that they are talking about the reapers/war but I respect your opinion I would go more into it but I have to get ready for my drill weekend.

[Falloutwarfare]

Gallifreya then i thank you i took "I'm being genuine. Referencing ME2 dialogue" the wrong way but wanted to check what you were saying and im glad i did =D also your profile photo seems to look into my very soul its kind of creepy lol

[EpyonX3]

llbountyhunter wrote...


but nobody has named in-game proof that counters IT! all I hear is "lack of polish" and bioware is not known for not "polishing" their games.

I have repeatedly. But all I get is, "No it doesn't."

Here it is again.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WEYZQ4JMIU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9-ALuIh3H4

[EpyonX3]

KevShep wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

KevShep wrote...


 from oil shadows was only an example to how they conmunicate and has nothing to do with anything.

Second you did (in a way) mention Exo Geni when I said that she says shepard is fighting the ones responsible for souring the songs of there mothers, You were saying that it was not sovereign/reapers(indoctrination) and then you did not say what it was and the only thing other then the reapers that it could be is Exo Geni.

Third if you run into an asari in ME2 then she states it more clearly that it was the reapers. Any time that the songs of our mothers comes up it is shepard asking about the war!...not the ones that captured her.

 I see the problem here. We are talking about the queen in two different games.

The Oily Shadows from ME1.

And the Sour Songs from ME 2.

You are right, I did indirectly mention Exogeni. However, my position still stands. The Oily shadows comment was not about the reapers. It was about the final days of the war in which their entire races was silenced one by one. If it were indoctrination, the songs wouldn't have been silences, they would have changed their tone.

When she says that she seeks those who soured the songs of their mothers, is he talking about ExoGeni or the reapers? Neither. In ME 2 Shepard is seeking the collectors, not reapers or exogeni. How are the collectors involved in this? Can collectors indoctrinate? This just opens up more questions and provides nothing to IT.

I see now... I still disagree I think the whole time that they are talking about the reapers/war but I respect your opinion I would go more into it but I have to get ready for my drill weekend.

Same here and it's cool if we disagree. No point in a discussing if we agreed.

Modifié par EpyonX3, 13 avril 2012 - 10:24 .