1057 réponses à ce sujet

[rachellouise]

dreman9999 wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Don't forget this:

In the previous cycle there was a "splinter group" who "sabotaged the crucible plans" because they "believed they could CONTROL the reapers". They were actually indoctrinated, sound familiar?

What's that got to do with IT? :/

I got everything to do with IT. What are the options the star child offers you? What is IT stating the reapers are trying to do to you?

No-one knew what the crucible would do, but everyone assumed it was a weapon. TIM was not trying to get the crucible to use for controlling, (he was using sanctuary to research, and experiment, to eventually control them. Which is why the reapers detroyed the facility), but prevent you from destroying the reapers.

[dreman9999]

rachellouise wrote...

I don't understand, if you were on that ledge, and looked, there would be nowhere else for the kid to go, except into that building. If he had attempted to climb up across anything, you would still be able to see him. Assuming husks look/see.

1. Husk don't think. They have no mind. So impliying dedutive resoning is flawed in that point.
2. No matter how you look at it, there is no way the husk could see where the kid went.

As I said be for they could easilly be trying to climb over.

[balance5050]

rachellouise wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Don't forget this:

In the previous cycle there was a "splinter group" who "sabotaged the crucible plans" because they "believed they could CONTROL the reapers". They were actually indoctrinated, sound familiar?

What's that got to do with IT? :/

I got everything to do with IT. What are the options the star child offers you? What is IT stating the reapers are trying to do to you?

No-one knew what the crucible would do, but everyone assumed it was a weapon. TIM was not trying to get the crucible to use for controlling, (he was using sanctuary to research, and experiment, to eventually control them. Which is why the reapers detroyed the facility), but prevent you from destroying the reapers.

Wut, at the end he specifically says he "knows" the crucible will let him control the reapers.

[rachellouise]

dreman9999 wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

I don't understand, if you were on that ledge, and looked, there would be nowhere else for the kid to go, except into that building. If he had attempted to climb up across anything, you would still be able to see him. Assuming husks look/see.

1. Husk don't think. They have no mind. So impliying dedutive resoning is flawed in that point.
2. No matter how you look at it, there is no way the husk could see where the kid went.

As I said be for they could easilly be trying to climb over.

How do you know the husks even have to 'see' anything any way?

[balance5050]

TIM: "I've dedicated my life to controlling the reapers, and I know with certainty the crucible will allow me to do that."

[rachellouise]

balance5050 wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Don't forget this:

In the previous cycle there was a "splinter group" who "sabotaged the crucible plans" because they "believed they could CONTROL the reapers". They were actually indoctrinated, sound familiar?

What's that got to do with IT? :/

I got everything to do with IT. What are the options the star child offers you? What is IT stating the reapers are trying to do to you?

No-one knew what the crucible would do, but everyone assumed it was a weapon. TIM was not trying to get the crucible to use for controlling, (he was using sanctuary to research, and experiment, to eventually control them. Which is why the reapers detroyed the facility), but prevent you from destroying the reapers.

Wut, at the end he specifically says he "knows" the crucible will let him control the reapers.

A lot of people 'know' a lot of things. He is not sure. Through the conversations  he is fighting indoctrination.

[dreman9999]

rachellouise wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Don't forget this:

In the previous cycle there was a "splinter group" who "sabotaged the crucible plans" because they "believed they could CONTROL the reapers". They were actually indoctrinated, sound familiar?

What's that got to do with IT? :/

I got everything to do with IT. What are the options the star child offers you? What is IT stating the reapers are trying to do to you?

No-one knew what the crucible would do, but everyone assumed it was a weapon. TIM was not trying to get the crucible to use for controlling, (he was using sanctuary to research, and experiment, to eventually control them. Which is why the reapers detroyed the facility), but prevent you from destroying the reapers.

1. The fact that no one knows what it would does is irrelivent.

2. TIM is trying to use both the crucible and what he found out in sactruary to control the reapers. That was the point of him going after the cataylist info. He still got that info on both.

3. Your missing the point to why people think the ending is indoctrination....The reapers want to stop the crucible form being used. It's nor Shepard that is key to defeting the reapers at the final point, it's the crucible. Anyone can get in and activat it, the theory stated they want to stop it. If they indoctrinated Shep, they now have an agent that can do that...Think of how Sovergin used Saren in the end of ME1  to try and activated the citadel relay and you can understand what I mean and why they are trying to indoctrinate Shepard.

Modifié par dreman9999, 14 avril 2012 - 04:50 .

[dreman9999]

rachellouise wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

I don't understand, if you were on that ledge, and looked, there would be nowhere else for the kid to go, except into that building. If he had attempted to climb up across anything, you would still be able to see him. Assuming husks look/see.

1. Husk don't think. They have no mind. So impliying dedutive resoning is flawed in that point.
2. No matter how you look at it, there is no way the husk could see where the kid went.

As I said be for they could easilly be trying to climb over.

How do you know the husks even have to 'see' anything any way?

Remeber the husk on build A and how they never go after the kid?

[balance5050]

rachellouise wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Don't forget this:

In the previous cycle there was a "splinter group" who "sabotaged the crucible plans" because they "believed they could CONTROL the reapers". They were actually indoctrinated, sound familiar?

What's that got to do with IT? :/

I got everything to do with IT. What are the options the star child offers you? What is IT stating the reapers are trying to do to you?

No-one knew what the crucible would do, but everyone assumed it was a weapon. TIM was not trying to get the crucible to use for controlling, (he was using sanctuary to research, and experiment, to eventually control them. Which is why the reapers detroyed the facility), but prevent you from destroying the reapers.

Wut, at the end he specifically says he "knows" the crucible will let him control the reapers.

A lot of people 'know' a lot of things. He is not sure. Through the conversations  he is fighting indoctrination.

He thought he could, if the Scientists working on it didn't know... why does he think he does? I'll tell you why.

 

[FTR GROG]

Are we still doing this? I mean all that this conversation accomplishes is one party walks away feeling better about their theory its not gonna change anyone's mind everyone reading these comments have already settled on what they believe in lets just wait for the dlc and see who's right. I'm rooting for IT only cause it would make for an excellent plot twist/end if it was true and if they pull it of well enough.

[Stegoceras]

If the Indoctrination theory is true and it's all a plot by the reapers to have Shepard choose Synthesis or Control then why do they even offer Destroy?

[balance5050]

Stegoceras wrote...

If the Indoctrination theory is true and it's all a plot by the reapers to have Shepard choose Synthesis or Control then why do they even offer Destroy?

That's like asking, if they really wanted Shepard dead why didn't Harbinger kill him?

[rachellouise]

Uh, how is not knowing what the crucible would do irrelevant? Clearly, TIM was not planning on grabbing the nice handles in the blue zone.

If the catalyst wanted to prevent the crucible from being used. he would get the reapers to blow it up. Because going by IT, the arms of the citadel have not been opened yet, so the crucible is waiting around without much defense.

[dreman9999]

Stegoceras wrote...

If the Indoctrination theory is true and it's all a plot by the reapers to have Shepard choose Synthesis or Control then why do they even offer Destroy?

Who says they offer destroy? It only seem that they are offering to give the illution of control. Shep can easilly wake from the dream. It offered as way to look at both sides..A 
bilaterally objective.It offer the control optin as the lesser of the 3 choices.

[dreman9999]

rachellouise wrote...

Uh, how is not knowing what the crucible would do irrelevant? Clearly, TIM was not planning on grabbing the nice handles in the blue zone.

If the catalyst wanted to prevent the crucible from being used. he would get the reapers to blow it up. Because going by IT, the arms of the citadel have not been opened yet, so the crucible is waiting around without much defense.

You missing the point....IT stated the star child is not real. In fact, it's theories to be harbinger.

[balance5050]

rachellouise wrote...

Uh, how is not knowing what the crucible would do irrelevant? Clearly, TIM was not planning on grabbing the nice handles in the blue zone.

If the catalyst wanted to prevent the crucible from being used. he would get the reapers to blow it up. Because going by IT, the arms of the citadel have not been opened yet, so the crucible is waiting around without much defense.

He "knew" the crucible would allow control of the reapers. How did TIM even get to the control panel unless the reapers let him?

[rachellouise]

dreman9999 wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

Uh, how is not knowing what the crucible would do irrelevant? Clearly, TIM was not planning on grabbing the nice handles in the blue zone.

If the catalyst wanted to prevent the crucible from being used. he would get the reapers to blow it up. Because going by IT, the arms of the citadel have not been opened yet, so the crucible is waiting around without much defense.

You missing the point....IT stated the star child is not real. In fact, it's theories to be harbinger.

Well then, harbinger would.

[rachellouise]

balance5050 wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

Uh, how is not knowing what the crucible would do irrelevant? Clearly, TIM was not planning on grabbing the nice handles in the blue zone.

If the catalyst wanted to prevent the crucible from being used. he would get the reapers to blow it up. Because going by IT, the arms of the citadel have not been opened yet, so the crucible is waiting around without much defense.

He "knew" the crucible would allow control of the reapers. How did TIM even get to the control panel unless the reapers let him?

TIM is indoctrinated , if he 'knows' he can control the reapers then it was a suggestion placed by the reapers.

But then, what doe it matter what he says, and he never had to get to the control panel. According to IT, this confrontation is not real. 

Modifié par rachellouise, 14 avril 2012 - 05:11 .

[balance5050]

rachellouise wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

Uh, how is not knowing what the crucible would do irrelevant? Clearly, TIM was not planning on grabbing the nice handles in the blue zone.

If the catalyst wanted to prevent the crucible from being used. he would get the reapers to blow it up. Because going by IT, the arms of the citadel have not been opened yet, so the crucible is waiting around without much defense.

He "knew" the crucible would allow control of the reapers. How did TIM even get to the control panel unless the reapers let him?

TIM is indoctrinated , if he 'knows' he can control the reapers then it was a suggestion placed by the reapers.

But then, what doe it matter what he says, and he never had to get to the control panel. According to IT, this confrontation is not real. 

 "if he 'knows' he can control the reapers then it was a suggestion placed by the reapers."
 K, glad we finally established that.

"According to IT, this confrontation is not real." not necessarily, the hallucination could start with the "elevator to heaven" that shep passes out on. So the only thing that I.T. really stands by is that the kid may not be real and that he is lying. 

[Stegoceras]

dreman9999 wrote...
Who says they offer destroy? It only seem that they are offering to give the illution of control. Shep can easilly wake from the dream. It offered as way to look at both sides..A 
bilaterally objective.It offer the control optin as the lesser of the 3 choices.

Not entirely sure what your aiming for here, but I'll try to respond;
Your saying that they need to give Shepard a destroy option to convince him that it's all real? So they would actually gamble their existence on hoping Shepard doesn't do what has been hammered into him for nearly 3 games? If they'd really need to have this destroy option why not have something fake that kills Shepard instead and lets the reapers go on their merry way? They have no reason to tell the truth anyways, unless Reapers have the inability to lie or something.

balance5050 wrote...

That's like asking, if they really wanted Shepard dead why didn't Harbinger kill him?

I always figured this as Harbinger presuming Shepard to be dead and taking off before seeing him get up.

Modifié par Stegoceras, 14 avril 2012 - 05:19 .

[rachellouise]

Okay, what 'version' of IT are we talking about? Because the one I've heard is, everything after getting knocked out, is basically in shepard's head. Shepard is still lying on the ground in London

[balance5050]

Stegoceras wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Who says they offer destroy? It only seem that they are offering to give the illution of control. Shep can easilly wake from the dream. It offered as way to look at both sides..A 
bilaterally objective.It offer the control optin as the lesser of the 3 choices.

Not entirely sure what your aiming for here, but I'll try to respond;
Your saying that they need to give Shepard a destroy option to convince him that it's all real? So they would actually gamble their existence on hoping Shepard doesn't do what has been hammered into him for nearly 3 games? If they'd really need to have this destroy option why not have something fake that kills Shepard instead and lets the reapers go on their merry way? They have no reason to tell the truth anyways, unless Reapers have the inability to lie or something.

balance5050 wrote...

That's like asking, if they really wanted Shepard dead why didn't Harbinger kill him?

I always figured this as Harbinger presuming Shepard to be dead and taking off before seeing him get up.

If you stand and wait on the final push, you see that Harbinger decides to kill "everyone" else and saves you for last, considering all the smack talk that harby does in ME2 "your mind will be mine" "we will find another way" You would think that he would have vaporized Shep like he did everyone else.

Also, it's stated that Anderson got there AFTER you, considering Harbingers dead eye with every other living thing, how come he conveniently misses Anderson as well?

[Iconoclaste]

It looks like IT is using Bioware's method to gather "supporting evidence" (or "holes") in order to see what needs a fix and what doesn't. Seeing a lot of the same arguments coming back over and over again, it looks more like a "defend IT in its present state" than a "look to upgrade IT".

[balance5050]

rachellouise wrote...

Okay, what 'version' of IT are we talking about? Because the one I've heard is, everything after getting knocked out, is basically in shepard's head. Shepard is still lying on the ground in London

There are many different versions of I.T. the top three are as follows:

1. Everything after harbys beam is a dream/hallucination
2. Everything after Shep passes out from blood loss is a dream/hallucination.
3. It is a waking dream where some things are real and some aren't, you're awake, but you're hallucinating some things.

Modifié par balance5050, 14 avril 2012 - 05:28 .

[Iconoclaste]

On the "everything after Harby's ray is dream", what is the use of having shown to Shepard what we see as "endings" in this specific, highly "discutable" fashion?