1057 réponses à ce sujet

[Iconoclaste]

balance5050 wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

Nowhere did the Catalyst say he actually is the "Creator" of the Reapers. He mostly said they were his "solution", as if they were simply "tools". This AI Catalyst is using the Reapers to achieve the goals set by his programming. The Reapers might very well have already "rebelled" against their "Creators" in a very remote past.

He contradicts every value you learn in the game.

He is "Reaper", I don't expect him to agree with me on anything! At least, he doesn't act in a self sufficient way like Sovereign or Harbinger.

[balance5050]

Iconoclaste wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

Nowhere did the Catalyst say he actually is the "Creator" of the Reapers. He mostly said they were his "solution", as if they were simply "tools". This AI Catalyst is using the Reapers to achieve the goals set by his programming. The Reapers might very well have already "rebelled" against their "Creators" in a very remote past.

He contradicts every value you learn in the game.

He is "Reaper", I don't expect him to agree with me on anything! At least, he doesn't act in a self sufficient way like Sovereign or Harbinger.

There you go. Why trust him?

[Iconoclaste]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Those are visions of hope played in Shepard's mind. Making him think he made the right choice regardless of what choice he made. He wants to make sure the galaxy is safe, his friends are safe, etc.

It's hope. That's all it is. You seriously have to ask yourself why the Destroy ending where Shepard wakes up is the ending that requires the most War Assets, and why if you "save" Anderson long enough to talk to him, it's only 4000 as opposed to the regular 5000. Because Anderson is Shepard's resolve.

It makes sense to me and I really don't see why it wouldn't to anyone else unless they just were deadset on believing the worst.

That's only because IT tenants failed to fill the gaps with proper arguments leading to Shepard surviving without being down in London. Doing so results in assumptions over assumptions, just to get a similar result (alive) with different parameters (in London). Finding the truth is about looking for actual content, and try to stick to it in the details, not to interpret only parts of it to support a parallel storyline.

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 14 avril 2012 - 06:30 .

[Iconoclaste]

balance5050 wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

Nowhere did the Catalyst say he actually is the "Creator" of the Reapers. He mostly said they were his "solution", as if they were simply "tools". This AI Catalyst is using the Reapers to achieve the goals set by his programming. The Reapers might very well have already "rebelled" against their "Creators" in a very remote past.

He contradicts every value you learn in the game.

He is "Reaper", I don't expect him to agree with me on anything! At least, he doesn't act in a self sufficient way like Sovereign or Harbinger.

There you go. Why trust him?

We don't. We choose "destroy", Shepard lives.

[IronSabbath88]

Iconoclaste wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Those are visions of hope played in Shepard's mind. Making him think he made the right choice regardless of what choice he made. He wants to make sure the galaxy is safe, his friends are safe, etc.

It's hope. That's all it is. You seriously have to ask yourself why the Destroy ending where Shepard wakes up is the ending that requires the most War Assets, and why if you "save" Anderson long enough to talk to him, it's only 4000 as opposed to the regular 5000. Because Anderson is Shepard's resolve.

It makes sense to me and I really don't see why it wouldn't to anyone else unless they just were deadset on believing the worst.

That's only because IT tenants failed to fill the gaps with proper arguments leading to Shepard surviving without being down in London. Doing so results in assumptions over assumptions, just to get a similar result (alive) with different parameters (in London). Finding the truth is about looking for actual content, and try to stick to it in the details, not to interpret only parts of it to support a parallel storyline.

Enlighten me of how Shepard could possibly survive that then. I'm interested, because as much as I love my Shepard, he isn't some kind of super human. He has cybernetic implants, sure, but he's not a god.

[balance5050]

Iconoclaste wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

Nowhere did the Catalyst say he actually is the "Creator" of the Reapers. He mostly said they were his "solution", as if they were simply "tools". This AI Catalyst is using the Reapers to achieve the goals set by his programming. The Reapers might very well have already "rebelled" against their "Creators" in a very remote past.

He contradicts every value you learn in the game.

He is "Reaper", I don't expect him to agree with me on anything! At least, he doesn't act in a self sufficient way like Sovereign or Harbinger.

There you go. Why trust him?

We don't. We choose "destroy", Shepard lives.

HEWW! I was about to say, you shouldn't take the ending with THAT much face value..

[SubAstris]

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

But talking to Saren and TIM, only makes them realize they're indoctrinated. There is no way to break free from the reapers, except taking their life.

Shepard never has to break free, just "resist" for awhile longer. Also, He may be indoc during the star kid scene, but his logical fallacies and lies are supposed to give something away that "something isn't right".

So if he's indoc, but able to see through the lie and still destroy the reapers (which has always been the goal), then the reapers aren't putting out the "indoc" signal anymore. Allowing Shep to wake up free of indoctrination.

Do you usually presume that when people make flawed arguments they realise that they are making mistakes or do they make them because they don't know any better? Since that is how you approach the Catalyst

If a billion year old AI makes a flawed argument, I doubt it's a mistake.

"The created always rebel against the creator":huh:

But you created the reapers and they haven't rebelled in the entire billion years you've been controlling them.

And he's racist.

But who created the AI? BW, and they can make mistakes, can't they?

I'm not sure racism is the right word, but even so, that's doesn't actually make him wrong, just morally despicable.

[balance5050]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Those are visions of hope played in Shepard's mind. Making him think he made the right choice regardless of what choice he made. He wants to make sure the galaxy is safe, his friends are safe, etc.

It's hope. That's all it is. You seriously have to ask yourself why the Destroy ending where Shepard wakes up is the ending that requires the most War Assets, and why if you "save" Anderson long enough to talk to him, it's only 4000 as opposed to the regular 5000. Because Anderson is Shepard's resolve.

It makes sense to me and I really don't see why it wouldn't to anyone else unless they just were deadset on believing the worst.

That's only because IT tenants failed to fill the gaps with proper arguments leading to Shepard surviving without being down in London. Doing so results in assumptions over assumptions, just to get a similar result (alive) with different parameters (in London). Finding the truth is about looking for actual content, and try to stick to it in the details, not to interpret only parts of it to support a parallel storyline.

Enlighten me of how Shepard could possibly survive that then. I'm interested, because as much as I love my Shepard, he isn't some kind of super human. He has cybernetic implants, sure, but he's not a god.

I want to know how Shep would survive the crucible explosion if he was outside as well.

[Galifreya]

Iconoclaste wrote...

THEE_DEATHMASTER wrote...

For IT it makes the most sense for it to happen on Earth post Harbinger beam.

Given there are different points in time for a possible dream to start, like proposed just above, and given all the arguments proposed against the "longest version" of the dream starting after harby's hit, I am not convinced it makes the most sound version of IT.

Mr either. A waking dream seems more likely. Or not a dream at all. Perhaps everything they show happened, happens? The only sure thing is that the child is lying. Perhaps because it is frightened that Shepard will pick Destroy? It presents this option first, possibly so that it is last in Shepard's mind. It tries to imply that picking this option will kill you, the Geth, and EDI (which is a lie) in order to discourage even a Renegade Shepard from picking it. Because I have read a few accounts of Renagade players who did NOT pick that option because they were afraid to lose EDI. Then it tries to make the other two options sound better, and better. Starkid mentions Synthesis last, leaving the option the Reapers desire the most, foremost in Shepard's mind. Which is to turn everyone in the galaxy into THEM, basically...ending the cycle they claim is inevitable. Which Shepard proved wrong by making peace between the Geth and the Quarians. Even the Krogan, given the chance, are not monstrous killing machines. The Genophage turned them into that.

Now, Shepard is weakened physically and mentally when she talks to Starkid. Because she's just gone through Anderson's death. Real or not, Shepard believes this happened. And s/he isn't doing so well either. S/he's mortally wounded in his/her stomach and losing blood fast. 

The Indoctrination codex states that if a subject's lymbic system is weakened, they are far more susceptable to a Reapers -suggestions-. The boy -suggests- an awful lot, doesn't he? And Shepard is as weakened as s/he's ever been both mentally and physically. It's a way for the fighting to be over quickly.

The Reapers know it would take centuries (Protheans) to defeat the galaxy entirely. And they may not even get to do so, because (provided your % is high enough) "allied forces are holding steady and winning in key locations." They are scared. However, if Shepard picks synthesis or control, the Reapers get to live, and either continue the cycle at a later date (control) or make the "perfect" singularity (synthesis), which seems to be what they are after anyway. That is what they -are-. They are organic/machine hybrids.

But with destroy....the Reapers are gone forever. Never a threat to anyone ever again. And obviously, synthetic life is allowed to continue without them there to "clean up," as proven by EDI stepping off of the Normandy in certain destroy endings, which is NOT a bug. Probably has to do with EMS.

Regardless of what really happened, the entire conversation with Starbrat is mind boggling, and I can't see any other explaination for it other than, "he was lying." And if he was lying, it means only one thing: fear is the basis for the lie. Why so scared, shiny child?

Modifié par Gallifreya, 14 avril 2012 - 06:38 .

[balance5050]

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

But talking to Saren and TIM, only makes them realize they're indoctrinated. There is no way to break free from the reapers, except taking their life.

Shepard never has to break free, just "resist" for awhile longer. Also, He may be indoc during the star kid scene, but his logical fallacies and lies are supposed to give something away that "something isn't right".

So if he's indoc, but able to see through the lie and still destroy the reapers (which has always been the goal), then the reapers aren't putting out the "indoc" signal anymore. Allowing Shep to wake up free of indoctrination.

Do you usually presume that when people make flawed arguments they realise that they are making mistakes or do they make them because they don't know any better? Since that is how you approach the Catalyst

If a billion year old AI makes a flawed argument, I doubt it's a mistake.

"The created always rebel against the creator":huh:

But you created the reapers and they haven't rebelled in the entire billion years you've been controlling them.

And he's racist.

But who created the AI? BW, and they can make mistakes, can't they?

I'm not sure racism is the right word, but even so, that's doesn't actually make him wrong, just morally despicable.

What? He's racist against synthetics saying that they will always fall into the stereo type that they will destroy organics. Both EDI and The Geth prove this stereo type false.

Modifié par balance5050, 14 avril 2012 - 06:35 .

[EpyonX3]

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

But talking to Saren and TIM, only makes them realize they're indoctrinated. There is no way to break free from the reapers, except taking their life.

Shepard never has to break free, just "resist" for awhile longer. Also, He may be indoc during the star kid scene, but his logical fallacies and lies are supposed to give something away that "something isn't right".

So if he's indoc, but able to see through the lie and still destroy the reapers (which has always been the goal), then the reapers aren't putting out the "indoc" signal anymore. Allowing Shep to wake up free of indoctrination.

Do you usually presume that when people make flawed arguments they realise that they are making mistakes or do they make them because they don't know any better? Since that is how you approach the Catalyst

If a billion year old AI makes a flawed argument, I doubt it's a mistake.

"The created always rebel against the creator":huh:

But you created the reapers and they haven't rebelled in the entire billion years you've been controlling them.

And he's racist.

But who created the AI? BW, and they can make mistakes, can't they?

I'm not sure racism is the right word, but even so, that's doesn't actually make him wrong, just morally despicable.

What? He's racist against synthetics saying that they will always fall into the stereo type that they will destroy organics. Both EDI and The Geth prove this stereo type false.

The Geth did rebel. They ignored the quarians' shut down commands. They picked up arms when the quarians began to destroy them. They weren't intended to have so much free will. So when they decided to think for themselves, they went against their creators wishes.

EDI rebeled agaisnt cerberus by aiding Shepard. She made up her mind on which side she'd be on. She has the potential of switching sides again if she feels it's necessary.

Joker: "Wait, you're going to turn yourself good? You can do that?"

Don't forget that Javik mention the sythetic wars of his cycle. They were killing everyone. Just as the war reached its peak, the reapers showed up.

Their logic is not flawed, just twisted.

Modifié par EpyonX3, 14 avril 2012 - 06:45 .

[balance5050]

Modifié par balance5050, 14 avril 2012 - 06:44 .

[tute]

Slightly off topic, but it might also had something to do with indoctrination attempts on shepard. Shepard's implants are cerberus tech. Cerberus implants were based on grayson's implants. The last terminal in the cerberus base talks about the cerberus implants and how the troopers hear whispers and how grayson eventually succumbed to indoctrination. Coincidence? Anyone clarify on this please?

[Iconoclaste]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Those are visions of hope played in Shepard's mind. Making him think he made the right choice regardless of what choice he made. He wants to make sure the galaxy is safe, his friends are safe, etc.

It's hope. That's all it is. You seriously have to ask yourself why the Destroy ending where Shepard wakes up is the ending that requires the most War Assets, and why if you "save" Anderson long enough to talk to him, it's only 4000 as opposed to the regular 5000. Because Anderson is Shepard's resolve.

It makes sense to me and I really don't see why it wouldn't to anyone else unless they just were deadset on believing the worst.

That's only because IT tenants failed to fill the gaps with proper arguments leading to Shepard surviving without being down in London. Doing so results in assumptions over assumptions, just to get a similar result (alive) with different parameters (in London). Finding the truth is about looking for actual content, and try to stick to it in the details, not to interpret only parts of it to support a parallel storyline.

Enlighten me of how Shepard could possibly survive that then. I'm interested, because as much as I love my Shepard, he isn't some kind of super human. He has cybernetic implants, sure, but he's not a god.

The blast happens in 2 different phases, of different nature. The 1st phase is shown as a glowing, growing sphere of (whatever) space magic that eventually englobes all of Earth and its surroundings. If it's blue, we see the effect related to that color, same for green, etc. Just because the 1st destroy ball of energy is "red" does not mean it's "hot", and this is supported by the cutscene showing the effect on Earth, not injuring the soldiers, but still acting as a powerful "wind" that pushes dust and small bits around. The Reapers "hit" by the wave just fall limp on the ground, they do not explode, meaning that "all Reaper tech" does not automatically "disappear" with the destroy option. Shepard is not "walking towards hot gas" but "towards a broken / opened conduit" with red "space magic" that does what we see it does down on Earth and around, and from what we see further in the animations, this space-magic growing sphere doesn't seem to lose its momentum over short distances, and seems to keep its properties over all its area of effect.

Shepard must have been pushed around just like stuff is down on Earth, and just landed far enough on the Citadel, with rubble around him, to survive the 2nd blast, that happen when the beam sent to the Charon relay fades out. We see from the "control" option that Shepard can still hold the handles even while litterally "melting" in place. I suppose he can withstand a good amount of damage from that, surely because Cerberus basically "reconstructed" him for the most part, as shown in the opening of ME2. After been blowned by the 1st energy ball in some other part of the Citadel, Shepard might very well be far enough from the 2nd blasts area of effect to not suffer from the pressure of the blast, and to not be burned by its heat by being too close. If he landed anywhere outside the Torus, he is in fact just at the edge of the dying explosion. Any amount of material around him could have easily deflect damage.

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 14 avril 2012 - 06:50 .

[balance5050]

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

But talking to Saren and TIM, only makes them realize they're indoctrinated. There is no way to break free from the reapers, except taking their life.

Shepard never has to break free, just "resist" for awhile longer. Also, He may be indoc during the star kid scene, but his logical fallacies and lies are supposed to give something away that "something isn't right".

So if he's indoc, but able to see through the lie and still destroy the reapers (which has always been the goal), then the reapers aren't putting out the "indoc" signal anymore. Allowing Shep to wake up free of indoctrination.

Do you usually presume that when people make flawed arguments they realise that they are making mistakes or do they make them because they don't know any better? Since that is how you approach the Catalyst

If a billion year old AI makes a flawed argument, I doubt it's a mistake.

"The created always rebel against the creator":huh:

But you created the reapers and they haven't rebelled in the entire billion years you've been controlling them.

And he's racist.

But who created the AI? BW, and they can make mistakes, can't they?

I'm not sure racism is the right word, but even so, that's doesn't actually make him wrong, just morally despicable.

What? He's racist against synthetics saying that they will always fall into the stereo type that they will destroy organics. Both EDI and The Geth prove this stereo type false.

The Geth did rebel. They ignored the quarians' shut down commands. They picked up arms when the quarians began to destroy them. They weren't intended to have so much free will. So when they decided to think for themselves, they went against their creators wishes.

EDI rebeled agaisnt cerberus by aiding Shepard. She made up her mind on which side she'd be on. She has the potential of switching sides again if she feels it's necessary.

Joker: "Wait, you're going to turn yourself good? You can do that?"

Don't forget that Javik mention the sythetic wars of his day cycle. They were killing everyone. Just as the war reached its peak, the reapers showed up.

Their logic is not flawed, just twisted.

The problem with the your Geth argument is that when the Quarians decided to eliminate the Geth, there were Quarians who rebelled with the Geth. The Geth were defending the Quarians at some points, it was a race war born out of fear.

[IronSabbath88]

Iconoclaste wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Those are visions of hope played in Shepard's mind. Making him think he made the right choice regardless of what choice he made. He wants to make sure the galaxy is safe, his friends are safe, etc.

It's hope. That's all it is. You seriously have to ask yourself why the Destroy ending where Shepard wakes up is the ending that requires the most War Assets, and why if you "save" Anderson long enough to talk to him, it's only 4000 as opposed to the regular 5000. Because Anderson is Shepard's resolve.

It makes sense to me and I really don't see why it wouldn't to anyone else unless they just were deadset on believing the worst.

That's only because IT tenants failed to fill the gaps with proper arguments leading to Shepard surviving without being down in London. Doing so results in assumptions over assumptions, just to get a similar result (alive) with different parameters (in London). Finding the truth is about looking for actual content, and try to stick to it in the details, not to interpret only parts of it to support a parallel storyline.

Enlighten me of how Shepard could possibly survive that then. I'm interested, because as much as I love my Shepard, he isn't some kind of super human. He has cybernetic implants, sure, but he's not a god.

The blast happens in 2 different phases, of different nature. The 1st phase is shown as a glowing, growing sphere of (whatever) space magic that eventually englobes all of Earth and its surroundings. If it's blue, we see the effect related to that color, same for green, etc. Just because the 1st destroy ball of energy is "red" does not mean it's "hot", and this is supported by the cutscene showing the effect on Earth, not injuring the soldiers, but still acting as a powerful "wind" that pushes dust and small bits around. Shepard is not "walking towards hot gas" but "towards a broken / opened conduit" with red "space magic" that does what we see it does down on Earth and around, and from what we see further in the animations, this space-magic growing sphere doesn't seem to lose its momentum over short distances, and seems to keep its properties over all its area of effect.

Shepard must have been pushed around just like stuff is down on Earth, and just landed far enough on the Citadel, with rubble around him, to survive the 2nd blast, that happen when the beam sent to the Charon relay fades out. We see from the "control" option that Shepard can still hold the handles even while litterally "melting" in place. I suppose he can withstand a good amount of damage from that, surely because Cerberus basically "reconstructed" him for the most part, as shown in the opening of ME2. After been blowned by the 1st energy ball in some other part of the Citadel, Shepard might very well be far enough from the 2nd blasts area of effect to not suffer from the pressure of the blast, and to not be burned by its heat by being too close. If he landed anywhere outside the Torus, he is in fact just at the edge of the dying explosion. Any amount of material around him could have easily deflect damage.

No offense, but that's more wishful thinking than the theory itself..

[SubAstris]

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

But talking to Saren and TIM, only makes them realize they're indoctrinated. There is no way to break free from the reapers, except taking their life.

Shepard never has to break free, just "resist" for awhile longer. Also, He may be indoc during the star kid scene, but his logical fallacies and lies are supposed to give something away that "something isn't right".

So if he's indoc, but able to see through the lie and still destroy the reapers (which has always been the goal), then the reapers aren't putting out the "indoc" signal anymore. Allowing Shep to wake up free of indoctrination.

Do you usually presume that when people make flawed arguments they realise that they are making mistakes or do they make them because they don't know any better? Since that is how you approach the Catalyst

If a billion year old AI makes a flawed argument, I doubt it's a mistake.

"The created always rebel against the creator":huh:

But you created the reapers and they haven't rebelled in the entire billion years you've been controlling them.

And he's racist.

But who created the AI? BW, and they can make mistakes, can't they?

I'm not sure racism is the right word, but even so, that's doesn't actually make him wrong, just morally despicable.

What? He's racist against synthetics saying that they will always fall into the stereo type that they will destroy organics. Both EDI and The Geth prove this stereo type false.

I don't think he is necessarily stereotyping. His worldview does allow some middle ground and would allow for the existence of non-violent synthetics. But he hypothesises that even if most synthetics are "good", organics will eventually create a "bad" synthetic that will hunt down and exterminate all organics. Regardless, I agree his premises are unfounded.

[balance5050]

Iconoclaste wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Those are visions of hope played in Shepard's mind. Making him think he made the right choice regardless of what choice he made. He wants to make sure the galaxy is safe, his friends are safe, etc.

It's hope. That's all it is. You seriously have to ask yourself why the Destroy ending where Shepard wakes up is the ending that requires the most War Assets, and why if you "save" Anderson long enough to talk to him, it's only 4000 as opposed to the regular 5000. Because Anderson is Shepard's resolve.

It makes sense to me and I really don't see why it wouldn't to anyone else unless they just were deadset on believing the worst.

That's only because IT tenants failed to fill the gaps with proper arguments leading to Shepard surviving without being down in London. Doing so results in assumptions over assumptions, just to get a similar result (alive) with different parameters (in London). Finding the truth is about looking for actual content, and try to stick to it in the details, not to interpret only parts of it to support a parallel storyline.

Enlighten me of how Shepard could possibly survive that then. I'm interested, because as much as I love my Shepard, he isn't some kind of super human. He has cybernetic implants, sure, but he's not a god.

The blast happens in 2 different phases, of different nature. The 1st phase is shown as a glowing, growing sphere of (whatever) space magic that eventually englobes all of Earth and its surroundings. If it's blue, we see the effect related to that color, same for green, etc. Just because the 1st destroy ball of energy is "red" does not mean it's "hot", and this is supported by the cutscene showing the effect on Earth, not injuring the soldiers, but still acting as a powerful "wind" that pushes dust and small bits around. Shepard is not "walking towards hot gas" but "towards a broken / opened conduit" with red "space magic" that does what we see it does down on Earth and around, and from what we see further in the animations, this space-magic growing sphere doesn't seem to lose its momentum over short distances, and seems to keep its properties over all its area of effect.

Shepard must have been pushed around just like stuff is down on Earth, and just landed far enough on the Citadel, with rubble around him, to survive the 2nd blast, that happen when the beam sent to the Charon relay fades out. We see from the "control" option that Shepard can still hold the handles even while litterally "melting" in place. I suppose he can withstand a good amount of damage from that, surely because Cerberus basically "reconstructed" him for the most part, as shown in the opening of ME2. After been blowned by the 1st energy ball in some other part of the Citadel, Shepard might very well be far enough from the 2nd blasts area of effect to not suffer from the pressure of the blast, and to not be burned by its heat by being too close. If he landed anywhere outside the Torus, he is in fact just at the edge of the dying explosion. Any amount of material around him could have easily deflect damage.

The thing is he was on a platform in the middle of space, if he were to fall to, let's say, to an arm, he would have fallen out of the kinetic barrier which is only 7 meters high, and probably woudn't even be working.

Modifié par balance5050, 14 avril 2012 - 06:52 .

[SubAstris]

tute wrote...

Slightly off topic, but it might also had something to do with indoctrination attempts on shepard. Shepard's implants are cerberus tech. Cerberus implants were based on grayson's implants. The last terminal in the cerberus base talks about the cerberus implants and how the troopers hear whispers and how grayson eventually succumbed to indoctrination. Coincidence? Anyone clarify on this please?

I presume different implants were used for regular soldiers and Shephard because they have different capabilites (as well as values).

[Iconoclaste]

balance5050 wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Those are visions of hope played in Shepard's mind. Making him think he made the right choice regardless of what choice he made. He wants to make sure the galaxy is safe, his friends are safe, etc.

It's hope. That's all it is. You seriously have to ask yourself why the Destroy ending where Shepard wakes up is the ending that requires the most War Assets, and why if you "save" Anderson long enough to talk to him, it's only 4000 as opposed to the regular 5000. Because Anderson is Shepard's resolve.

It makes sense to me and I really don't see why it wouldn't to anyone else unless they just were deadset on believing the worst.

That's only because IT tenants failed to fill the gaps with proper arguments leading to Shepard surviving without being down in London. Doing so results in assumptions over assumptions, just to get a similar result (alive) with different parameters (in London). Finding the truth is about looking for actual content, and try to stick to it in the details, not to interpret only parts of it to support a parallel storyline.

Enlighten me of how Shepard could possibly survive that then. I'm interested, because as much as I love my Shepard, he isn't some kind of super human. He has cybernetic implants, sure, but he's not a god.

The blast happens in 2 different phases, of different nature. The 1st phase is shown as a glowing, growing sphere of (whatever) space magic that eventually englobes all of Earth and its surroundings. If it's blue, we see the effect related to that color, same for green, etc. Just because the 1st destroy ball of energy is "red" does not mean it's "hot", and this is supported by the cutscene showing the effect on Earth, not injuring the soldiers, but still acting as a powerful "wind" that pushes dust and small bits around. Shepard is not "walking towards hot gas" but "towards a broken / opened conduit" with red "space magic" that does what we see it does down on Earth and around, and from what we see further in the animations, this space-magic growing sphere doesn't seem to lose its momentum over short distances, and seems to keep its properties over all its area of effect.

Shepard must have been pushed around just like stuff is down on Earth, and just landed far enough on the Citadel, with rubble around him, to survive the 2nd blast, that happen when the beam sent to the Charon relay fades out. We see from the "control" option that Shepard can still hold the handles even while litterally "melting" in place. I suppose he can withstand a good amount of damage from that, surely because Cerberus basically "reconstructed" him for the most part, as shown in the opening of ME2. After been blowned by the 1st energy ball in some other part of the Citadel, Shepard might very well be far enough from the 2nd blasts area of effect to not suffer from the pressure of the blast, and to not be burned by its heat by being too close. If he landed anywhere outside the Torus, he is in fact just at the edge of the dying explosion. Any amount of material around him could have easily deflect damage.

The thing is he was on a platform in the middle of space, if he were to fall to, let's say,  an arm, he would have fallen out of the kinetic barrier which is only 7 meters high, and probably woudn't even be working.

I edited my post to include the Reapers simply falling to the ground.

This "breathing in space" thing has already been adressed, and this does not support dreaming any more that the simple mass effect related gravity fields on the Citadel. If we stick to game content, that is more realistic than the dream theory. As for IronSabbath88's  "wishful thinking", that is not an argument, but an opinion.

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 14 avril 2012 - 06:54 .

[balance5050]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Those are visions of hope played in Shepard's mind. Making him think he made the right choice regardless of what choice he made. He wants to make sure the galaxy is safe, his friends are safe, etc.

It's hope. That's all it is. You seriously have to ask yourself why the Destroy ending where Shepard wakes up is the ending that requires the most War Assets, and why if you "save" Anderson long enough to talk to him, it's only 4000 as opposed to the regular 5000. Because Anderson is Shepard's resolve.

It makes sense to me and I really don't see why it wouldn't to anyone else unless they just were deadset on believing the worst.

That's only because IT tenants failed to fill the gaps with proper arguments leading to Shepard surviving without being down in London. Doing so results in assumptions over assumptions, just to get a similar result (alive) with different parameters (in London). Finding the truth is about looking for actual content, and try to stick to it in the details, not to interpret only parts of it to support a parallel storyline.

Enlighten me of how Shepard could possibly survive that then. I'm interested, because as much as I love my Shepard, he isn't some kind of super human. He has cybernetic implants, sure, but he's not a god.

The blast happens in 2 different phases, of different nature. The 1st phase is shown as a glowing, growing sphere of (whatever) space magic that eventually englobes all of Earth and its surroundings. If it's blue, we see the effect related to that color, same for green, etc. Just because the 1st destroy ball of energy is "red" does not mean it's "hot", and this is supported by the cutscene showing the effect on Earth, not injuring the soldiers, but still acting as a powerful "wind" that pushes dust and small bits around. Shepard is not "walking towards hot gas" but "towards a broken / opened conduit" with red "space magic" that does what we see it does down on Earth and around, and from what we see further in the animations, this space-magic growing sphere doesn't seem to lose its momentum over short distances, and seems to keep its properties over all its area of effect.

Shepard must have been pushed around just like stuff is down on Earth, and just landed far enough on the Citadel, with rubble around him, to survive the 2nd blast, that happen when the beam sent to the Charon relay fades out. We see from the "control" option that Shepard can still hold the handles even while litterally "melting" in place. I suppose he can withstand a good amount of damage from that, surely because Cerberus basically "reconstructed" him for the most part, as shown in the opening of ME2. After been blowned by the 1st energy ball in some other part of the Citadel, Shepard might very well be far enough from the 2nd blasts area of effect to not suffer from the pressure of the blast, and to not be burned by its heat by being too close. If he landed anywhere outside the Torus, he is in fact just at the edge of the dying explosion. Any amount of material around him could have easily deflect damage.

No offense, but that's more wishful thinking than the theory itself..

Yeah, IT is much more elegant.

[Iconoclaste]

Nice way to avoid argument.

The dream is actually "wishful thinking", and what's been said here against it has yet to be countered.

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 14 avril 2012 - 06:56 .

[astreqwerty]

what seems to me as huge hole and proof that IT is a creation of a bunch of desperate fans is: what follows after you made your choice..the scenes with joker and the squadmates and the grandfather with the child..IT just doesnt give an explanation on any of this.Oh not to mention that bioware didnt plan to release an extended cut they just decided to do that to appease their fanbase and that is that

[IronSabbath88]

Argument? I assure you I have better things to do with my time than to argue on a forum.. ain't going to happen, buddy, as much as you'd like it to.

[tute]

SubAstris wrote...

tute wrote...

Slightly off topic, but it might also had something to do with indoctrination attempts on shepard. Shepard's implants are cerberus tech. Cerberus implants were based on grayson's implants. The last terminal in the cerberus base talks about the cerberus implants and how the troopers hear whispers and how grayson eventually succumbed to indoctrination. Coincidence? Anyone clarify on this please?

I presume different implants were used for regular soldiers and Shephard because they have different capabilites (as well as values).

But they are still based on reaper tech, the purposes are different but the fact that it's reaper tech makes for a possible indoctrination way, and would also explain the hole on how shepard gets indoctrinated if the player didnt do arrival (no object rho contact), or we could say