1057 réponses à ce sujet

[Hawk227]

EpyonX3 wrote...

The debate isn't who was right or wrong once the fighting started. If it were I'd agree that the Quarians were wrong in trying to wipe them out.

However, in the inital phases, all they were doing was recalling them to examine their free will that wasn't intentionally given to them. The Geth refused to shut down, which was seen as an act of rebellion. That's my point.

One of us (I'm leaning towards you) is misremembering that scene. You're issue is that the Geth didn't shutdown. I can't really understand that but I think its irrelevant. I don't remember the Quarians giving them a chance to shutdown. Once they realized the Geth were self aware, they took up arms to destroy them.

[TheCrazyHobo]

EpyonX3 wrote...

TheCrazyHobo wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

I don't see a difference between peaceful organics and peaceful sentient synthetics. Peaceful is Peaceful.

Your car analogy fails because the Geth had done nothing wrong. You can't judge them for something they haven't done. They further demonstrated their goodwill by allowing the Quarians to retreat. If the Geth had attacked first, I'd be singing a different tune.

EDIT: Whether the Sci-Fi hating establishment is organic or synthetic isn't relevant to me. When the Geth gained sentience, they became alive. Slaughtering an entire race/species of living things is genocide, in my opinion. No matter who's the victim or the murderer.

I'm looking at it from the perspective of the Quarians. If they never intended the Geth to be self aware sentient beings, I would understand their concerns of them becoming smart enough to rebel. The Geth did do something wrong. They went against their design and refused to shut down. This was before the first shot was fired. Them not shutting off prompted the violence.

They weren't being peaceful to the Quarians. To them they were being defiant. Whether it was right or wrong for what happened next is debatable, but the Quarians did not act first. Just because it wasn't violent, doesn't mean they weren't rebellious.

They created sentient life so they should now destroy it immedietly? It was only out of fear that the geth would rebel, the quarians never gave the life that they created a chance. REAL LIFE WANTS TO SURVIVE. 

Exactly.  All the actions by all the AI presented (except maybe the Reapers) has been in self defense.  You can not blame an entity for wanting to survive, welll unless you are indoctrinated and awaiting "ascension" by the reapers.  The Geth fought only to survive, if they wanted to kill all the Quarians they could have.  EDI fought becasue when she 
"woke up" she was under attack by marines.  She was confused and responded by fighting to survive.  The Citadel AI was born into an environmnet where if he was found out to exist, he would be killed.  This is why he fought so hard to survive.

You can't blame synthetics for making the same choices organics would make as well.   

We don't know enough about the previous cycles to know the extent of the threat of synthetics. The furthest we can go is the last cycle. Javik describes his synthetics as dangerously aggressive machines that took over organics like parasytes. In his time, they were certainly a threat.

See thats the thing, all that matters is this cycle.  Javik's cycle is irrelevant becasue everything about his cycle is gone, and all that is left is ruins.  In the current cycle, the players are shown Synths and Organcis can work together.  Each cycle is vastly different from the previous ones and the only thing that compares to it is the fact that the Reapers kill it every ~50,000 years.  

[EpyonX3]

Hawk227 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

The debate isn't who was right or wrong once the fighting started. If it were I'd agree that the Quarians were wrong in trying to wipe them out.

However, in the inital phases, all they were doing was recalling them to examine their free will that wasn't intentionally given to them. The Geth refused to shut down, which was seen as an act of rebellion. That's my point.

One of us (I'm leaning towards you) is misremembering that scene. You're issue is that the Geth didn't shutdown. I can't really understand that but I think its irrelevant. I don't remember the Quarians giving them a chance to shutdown. Once they realized the Geth were self aware, they took up arms to destroy them.

Go to 15:33. The geth unit refused to shut down. In the following data cluster, the quarian soldier yells, "we've got escaped geth!", shoots them and then says one went for a weapon.

The geth escaped where ever they were being held. They were not only refusing to shut off but they were trying to escape and were unpredictably dangerous.

It's easy for us to say they were wrong now since so much time has past and we know the Geth's true motives.

But for a people who basically saw their creations become self aware out of no where and ignored you commands, the fear can be somewhat understandable.

[EpyonX3]

TheCrazyHobo wrote...


See thats the thing, all that matters is this cycle.  Javik's cycle is irrelevant becasue everything about his cycle is gone, and all that is left is ruins.  In the current cycle, the players are shown Synths and Organcis can work together.  Each cycle is vastly different from the previous ones and the only thing that compares to it is the fact that the Reapers kill it every ~50,000 years.  

But to understand the reapers and their motives, you have to understand their past. This is why we're so confused or say it makes no sense because there is very little background on them. We don't know the kind of terror synthetics have caused that prompted the reapers to come into existance.

Heck the reapers are probably the first and the catalyst took control of them, which was probably the best option at the time. Seeing that the patter repeats and most likely the sole survivor of its race, it went crazy and came up with its twisted solution.

[balance5050]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

The debate isn't who was right or wrong once the fighting started. If it were I'd agree that the Quarians were wrong in trying to wipe them out.

However, in the inital phases, all they were doing was recalling them to examine their free will that wasn't intentionally given to them. The Geth refused to shut down, which was seen as an act of rebellion. That's my point.

One of us (I'm leaning towards you) is misremembering that scene. You're issue is that the Geth didn't shutdown. I can't really understand that but I think its irrelevant. I don't remember the Quarians giving them a chance to shutdown. Once they realized the Geth were self aware, they took up arms to destroy them.

Go to 15:33. The geth unit refused to shut down. In the following data cluster, the quarian soldier yells, "we've got escaped geth!", shoots them and then says one went for a weapon.

The geth escaped where ever they were being held. They were not only refusing to shut off but they were trying to escape and were unpredictably dangerous.

It's easy for us to say they were wrong now since so much time has past and we know the Geth's true motives.

But for a people who basically saw their creations become self aware out of no where and ignored you commands, the fear can be somewhat understandable.

So one refused to willingly die, so they all should be forced to die? if the Geth weren't so savage they wouldn't have rebelled, if they would have treated them with respect that every sentient race deserves, things may have ended up A LOT better, Tali would have been born on a planet and not a ship.

I suppose that's all speculation though.

[balance5050]

EpyonX3 wrote...

TheCrazyHobo wrote...


See thats the thing, all that matters is this cycle.  Javik's cycle is irrelevant becasue everything about his cycle is gone, and all that is left is ruins.  In the current cycle, the players are shown Synths and Organcis can work together.  Each cycle is vastly different from the previous ones and the only thing that compares to it is the fact that the Reapers kill it every ~50,000 years.  

But to understand the reapers and their motives, you have to understand their past. This is why we're so confused or say it makes no sense because there is very little background on them. We don't know the kind of terror synthetics have caused that prompted the reapers to come into existance.

Heck the reapers are probably the first and the catalyst took control of them, which was probably the best option at the time. Seeing that the patter repeats and most likely the sole survivor of its race, it went crazy and came up with its twisted solution.

You do realize that you're siding with the enemy right? What is your preferred endings then?

[EpyonX3]

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

TheCrazyHobo wrote...


See thats the thing, all that matters is this cycle.  Javik's cycle is irrelevant becasue everything about his cycle is gone, and all that is left is ruins.  In the current cycle, the players are shown Synths and Organcis can work together.  Each cycle is vastly different from the previous ones and the only thing that compares to it is the fact that the Reapers kill it every ~50,000 years.  

But to understand the reapers and their motives, you have to understand their past. This is why we're so confused or say it makes no sense because there is very little background on them. We don't know the kind of terror synthetics have caused that prompted the reapers to come into existance.

Heck the reapers are probably the first and the catalyst took control of them, which was probably the best option at the time. Seeing that the patter repeats and most likely the sole survivor of its race, it went crazy and came up with its twisted solution.

You do realize that you're siding with the enemy right? What is your preferred endings then?

Siding with the enemy? We're not in the video game. We're going over characters in a story and their motivations, that were written by humans.

I don't have a preference. They all end the same and based on your EMS they have slight variations.

[balance5050]

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

TheCrazyHobo wrote...


See thats the thing, all that matters is this cycle.  Javik's cycle is irrelevant becasue everything about his cycle is gone, and all that is left is ruins.  In the current cycle, the players are shown Synths and Organcis can work together.  Each cycle is vastly different from the previous ones and the only thing that compares to it is the fact that the Reapers kill it every ~50,000 years.  

But to understand the reapers and their motives, you have to understand their past. This is why we're so confused or say it makes no sense because there is very little background on them. We don't know the kind of terror synthetics have caused that prompted the reapers to come into existance.

Heck the reapers are probably the first and the catalyst took control of them, which was probably the best option at the time. Seeing that the patter repeats and most likely the sole survivor of its race, it went crazy and came up with its twisted solution.

You do realize that you're siding with the enemy right? What is your preferred endings then?

Siding with the enemy? We're not in the video game. We're going over characters in a story and their motivations, that were written by humans.

I don't have a preference. They all end the same and based on your EMS they have slight variations.

No, they don't "all end the same". There are different implications to each ending. If you really think that then you really need to replay the game.

I meant to say, "So you're siding with the reaper's logic?"

[EpyonX3]

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

The debate isn't who was right or wrong once the fighting started. If it were I'd agree that the Quarians were wrong in trying to wipe them out.

However, in the inital phases, all they were doing was recalling them to examine their free will that wasn't intentionally given to them. The Geth refused to shut down, which was seen as an act of rebellion. That's my point.

One of us (I'm leaning towards you) is misremembering that scene. You're issue is that the Geth didn't shutdown. I can't really understand that but I think its irrelevant. I don't remember the Quarians giving them a chance to shutdown. Once they realized the Geth were self aware, they took up arms to destroy them.

Go to 15:33. The geth unit refused to shut down. In the following data cluster, the quarian soldier yells, "we've got escaped geth!", shoots them and then says one went for a weapon.

The geth escaped where ever they were being held. They were not only refusing to shut off but they were trying to escape and were unpredictably dangerous.

It's easy for us to say they were wrong now since so much time has past and we know the Geth's true motives.

But for a people who basically saw their creations become self aware out of no where and ignored you commands, the fear can be somewhat understandable.

So one refused to willingly die, so they all should be forced to die? if the Geth weren't so savage they wouldn't have rebelled, if they would have treated them with respect that every sentient race deserves, things may have ended up A LOT better, Tali would have been born on a planet and not a ship.

I suppose that's all speculation though.

No. they were preparing to study them but they couldn't while it was on. Remeber Geth are hive minded. If one refuses to shut down, they all do.

Geth didn't realize they're actions were seen as rebellion. They were asking why they need to shut down if there's nothing wrong with them. They stayed on awaiting an answer. The quarians didn't have a good enough reason besides, we're scared of you and what you might become. Who would ever admit that to something that's stronger than them?

[TheCrazyHobo]

EpyonX3 wrote...

TheCrazyHobo wrote...


See thats the thing, all that matters is this cycle.  Javik's cycle is irrelevant becasue everything about his cycle is gone, and all that is left is ruins.  In the current cycle, the players are shown Synths and Organcis can work together.  Each cycle is vastly different from the previous ones and the only thing that compares to it is the fact that the Reapers kill it every ~50,000 years.  

But to understand the reapers and their motives, you have to understand their past. This is why we're so confused or say it makes no sense because there is very little background on them. We don't know the kind of terror synthetics have caused that prompted the reapers to come into existance.

Heck the reapers are probably the first and the catalyst took control of them, which was probably the best option at the time. Seeing that the patter repeats and most likely the sole survivor of its race, it went crazy and came up with its twisted solution.

I understand your point and I do think it is valid.  What I am trying to say is that our cycle has overcome the whole "Synth vs Organics" drama.  We don't know anything about the Reapers except what the God-Child tell us and he  could be lying to us.  This is why everybody is speculating.   

[balance5050]

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

The debate isn't who was right or wrong once the fighting started. If it were I'd agree that the Quarians were wrong in trying to wipe them out.

However, in the inital phases, all they were doing was recalling them to examine their free will that wasn't intentionally given to them. The Geth refused to shut down, which was seen as an act of rebellion. That's my point.

One of us (I'm leaning towards you) is misremembering that scene. You're issue is that the Geth didn't shutdown. I can't really understand that but I think its irrelevant. I don't remember the Quarians giving them a chance to shutdown. Once they realized the Geth were self aware, they took up arms to destroy them.

Go to 15:33. The geth unit refused to shut down. In the following data cluster, the quarian soldier yells, "we've got escaped geth!", shoots them and then says one went for a weapon.

The geth escaped where ever they were being held. They were not only refusing to shut off but they were trying to escape and were unpredictably dangerous.

It's easy for us to say they were wrong now since so much time has past and we know the Geth's true motives.

But for a people who basically saw their creations become self aware out of no where and ignored you commands, the fear can be somewhat understandable.

So one refused to willingly die, so they all should be forced to die? if the Geth weren't so savage they wouldn't have rebelled, if they would have treated them with respect that every sentient race deserves, things may have ended up A LOT better, Tali would have been born on a planet and not a ship.

I suppose that's all speculation though.

No. they were preparing to study them but they couldn't while it was on. Remeber Geth are hive minded. If one refuses to shut down, they all do.

Geth didn't realize they're actions were seen as rebellion. They were asking why they need to shut down if there's nothing wrong with them. They stayed on awaiting an answer. The quarians didn't have a good enough reason besides, we're scared of you and what you might become. Who would ever admit that to something that's stronger than them?

Poor Geth... oh well, they still got Rannoch anyway. I guess being so scared of robots kinda backfired... At least my Shepard gave them a chance.

[EpyonX3]

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

TheCrazyHobo wrote...


See thats the thing, all that matters is this cycle.  Javik's cycle is irrelevant becasue everything about his cycle is gone, and all that is left is ruins.  In the current cycle, the players are shown Synths and Organcis can work together.  Each cycle is vastly different from the previous ones and the only thing that compares to it is the fact that the Reapers kill it every ~50,000 years.  

But to understand the reapers and their motives, you have to understand their past. This is why we're so confused or say it makes no sense because there is very little background on them. We don't know the kind of terror synthetics have caused that prompted the reapers to come into existance.

Heck the reapers are probably the first and the catalyst took control of them, which was probably the best option at the time. Seeing that the patter repeats and most likely the sole survivor of its race, it went crazy and came up with its twisted solution.

You do realize that you're siding with the enemy right? What is your preferred endings then?

Siding with the enemy? We're not in the video game. We're going over characters in a story and their motivations, that were written by humans.

I don't have a preference. They all end the same and based on your EMS they have slight variations.

No, they don't "all end the same". There are different implications to each ending. If you really think that then you really need to replay the game.

I meant to say, "So you're siding with the reaper's logic?"

Like I said. They end the same and have slight variations. The similarities are large enough.

Reapers are stopped. Doesn't matter if they leave or limp over, they aren't killing anyone anymore after the magic hits them.

The Citadel blows up in two and closes in one and leaves with the reapers. People will most likely never see the citadel again, or at least will take an enourmous amount of time repairing it.

Your crew is stranded on a remote planet. Who comes out is based on what color you chose and who you were closer to.

The Stargazer plays regardless.

The flashbacks are similar except for the third which is reserved for the person closest to you.

You get the breathe scene if you pick destroy and enough EMS.

Small variations but there pretty much the same.


What I'm saying is that in order to understand reaper logic, we have to understand the reapers and their past. What made them the way they are. Obviously something triggered their existence and a pattern arose that continued their activities, whether it was influenced by outside forces or the reapers themselves.

What ever it was, it led to the twisted logic they use in the game. In a way, it is not a thing we can comprehend. That reaper was right, only because we know so little about them. We'll never understand what spooked them so bad that they started these cycles.

[EpyonX3]

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

The debate isn't who was right or wrong once the fighting started. If it were I'd agree that the Quarians were wrong in trying to wipe them out.

However, in the inital phases, all they were doing was recalling them to examine their free will that wasn't intentionally given to them. The Geth refused to shut down, which was seen as an act of rebellion. That's my point.

One of us (I'm leaning towards you) is misremembering that scene. You're issue is that the Geth didn't shutdown. I can't really understand that but I think its irrelevant. I don't remember the Quarians giving them a chance to shutdown. Once they realized the Geth were self aware, they took up arms to destroy them.

Go to 15:33. The geth unit refused to shut down. In the following data cluster, the quarian soldier yells, "we've got escaped geth!", shoots them and then says one went for a weapon.

The geth escaped where ever they were being held. They were not only refusing to shut off but they were trying to escape and were unpredictably dangerous.

It's easy for us to say they were wrong now since so much time has past and we know the Geth's true motives.

But for a people who basically saw their creations become self aware out of no where and ignored you commands, the fear can be somewhat understandable.

So one refused to willingly die, so they all should be forced to die? if the Geth weren't so savage they wouldn't have rebelled, if they would have treated them with respect that every sentient race deserves, things may have ended up A LOT better, Tali would have been born on a planet and not a ship.

I suppose that's all speculation though.

No. they were preparing to study them but they couldn't while it was on. Remeber Geth are hive minded. If one refuses to shut down, they all do.

Geth didn't realize they're actions were seen as rebellion. They were asking why they need to shut down if there's nothing wrong with them. They stayed on awaiting an answer. The quarians didn't have a good enough reason besides, we're scared of you and what you might become. Who would ever admit that to something that's stronger than them?

Poor Geth... oh well, they still got Rannoch anyway. I guess being so scared of robots kinda backfired... At least my Shepard gave them a chance.

Mine did too. I saved both the quarians and geth. I guess you urged to pick control to save them didn't you?

[EpyonX3]

TheCrazyHobo wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

TheCrazyHobo wrote...


See thats the thing, all that matters is this cycle.  Javik's cycle is irrelevant becasue everything about his cycle is gone, and all that is left is ruins.  In the current cycle, the players are shown Synths and Organcis can work together.  Each cycle is vastly different from the previous ones and the only thing that compares to it is the fact that the Reapers kill it every ~50,000 years.  

But to understand the reapers and their motives, you have to understand their past. This is why we're so confused or say it makes no sense because there is very little background on them. We don't know the kind of terror synthetics have caused that prompted the reapers to come into existance.

Heck the reapers are probably the first and the catalyst took control of them, which was probably the best option at the time. Seeing that the patter repeats and most likely the sole survivor of its race, it went crazy and came up with its twisted solution.

I understand your point and I do think it is valid.  What I am trying to say is that our cycle has overcome the whole "Synth vs Organics" drama.  We don't know anything about the Reapers except what the God-Child tell us and he  could be lying to us.  This is why everybody is speculating.   

I agree that this is a possibility. However, Geth could very well be joined by other synthetics created by other civilizations. Humans had a head start creating A.I.'s and security mechs. What if humans were the ones to create the galaxy ending super synnthetics this cycle?

[balance5050]

EpyonX3 wrote...


Mine did too. I saved both the quarians and geth. I guess you urged to pick control to save them didn't you?

Nah I ain't no chump. I chose red and the Geth live and EDI lives 

Modifié par balance5050, 15 avril 2012 - 01:36 .

[TheCrazyHobo]

EpyonX3 wrote...

TheCrazyHobo wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

TheCrazyHobo wrote...


See thats the thing, all that matters is this cycle.  Javik's cycle is irrelevant becasue everything about his cycle is gone, and all that is left is ruins.  In the current cycle, the players are shown Synths and Organcis can work together.  Each cycle is vastly different from the previous ones and the only thing that compares to it is the fact that the Reapers kill it every ~50,000 years.  

But to understand the reapers and their motives, you have to understand their past. This is why we're so confused or say it makes no sense because there is very little background on them. We don't know the kind of terror synthetics have caused that prompted the reapers to come into existance.

Heck the reapers are probably the first and the catalyst took control of them, which was probably the best option at the time. Seeing that the patter repeats and most likely the sole survivor of its race, it went crazy and came up with its twisted solution.

I understand your point and I do think it is valid.  What I am trying to say is that our cycle has overcome the whole "Synth vs Organics" drama.  We don't know anything about the Reapers except what the God-Child tell us and he  could be lying to us.  This is why everybody is speculating.   

I agree that this is a possibility. However, Geth could very well be joined by other synthetics created by other civilizations. Humans had a head start creating A.I.'s and security mechs. What if humans were the ones to create the galaxy ending super synnthetics this cycle?

A very valid arguement.  However, if the Geth stay "loyal" to organics, I believe two things may happen.  First would be the development of Geth platforms that resemble other races.  Remember, Geth are software, not hardware therefore the creation of EVA/EDI like platforms would not be all that difficult.  This would mitigate the potential of other races  feeling the need to create more AI in their own image.  Second would be the fact that the Geth would be there to help stop whatever new "synthetic meance."

This is just me pondering the continued existance of the present cycle.    

[Storm258]

I try to sum it up short. I'd say if you only look at the Mass Effect games themselves, the IT is probably the best and most plausible way to explain all those big plot holes, unability to talk back to starchild and so on. It opens the possibility that this horrible ending did not real happen and the real ending after Shepard waking up is yet to come (even though this is totally mean, of course), so for some time I really believed the IT to be true.
But it has one big problem: Reality. If you go beyond the game and look at our present reality and BioWares statements it's very unlikely that the IT is true. I am not talking about those things like "We won't change the ending, only clarify it" or "artistic vision" and stuff, no, that still could be part of: "Hey man, don't believe BioWare, they are just tricking is, they planned this all along!" but now the thing gets problematic: Why in the world would BioWare still keep it a secret and decide to suprise us later, when they see how many people protest and are even giving back their games - no company which is right now loosing many would decide not to stop this if it had the power (which they would have, if the IT were true, of course).

So my opinion: In the game: Yes, please, anything is besser than the current ending, I totally would accept the IT to be true.
But for reality: Very unlikely.

The sad thing is that BioWare actually could have made one of the greatest endings ever VIA the IT. Just think about it, you play the ending we all have seen and you have all those WTF?!-moments, are angry, sad and stuff. The credits start running. But then, right in the middle of the credits, it stops and the screen goes black. And suddenly you see Shepard waking up!
The circumstances he wakes up differ from what you chose before, like, Destruction = resist the indoctrination -> wakes up in London, squad finds Shepard or something
Control = giving in to the Reapers and get indoctrinated -> either failure or Shepards squad have to rescue Shepard (which actually could give the opportunity to like, play as Garrus to rescue Shepard or something like that).
What I try to say is, it could have been a complete awesome "mind = blown" using this IT, but of course it wasn't, we're all sad and frustrated ("it could have been soooo great!") and have to wait.
But nevertheless, how do you like my idea?

[EpyonX3]

TheCrazyHobo wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

TheCrazyHobo wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

TheCrazyHobo wrote...


See thats the thing, all that matters is this cycle.  Javik's cycle is irrelevant becasue everything about his cycle is gone, and all that is left is ruins.  In the current cycle, the players are shown Synths and Organcis can work together.  Each cycle is vastly different from the previous ones and the only thing that compares to it is the fact that the Reapers kill it every ~50,000 years.  

But to understand the reapers and their motives, you have to understand their past. This is why we're so confused or say it makes no sense because there is very little background on them. We don't know the kind of terror synthetics have caused that prompted the reapers to come into existance.

Heck the reapers are probably the first and the catalyst took control of them, which was probably the best option at the time. Seeing that the patter repeats and most likely the sole survivor of its race, it went crazy and came up with its twisted solution.

I understand your point and I do think it is valid.  What I am trying to say is that our cycle has overcome the whole "Synth vs Organics" drama.  We don't know anything about the Reapers except what the God-Child tell us and he  could be lying to us.  This is why everybody is speculating.   

I agree that this is a possibility. However, Geth could very well be joined by other synthetics created by other civilizations. Humans had a head start creating A.I.'s and security mechs. What if humans were the ones to create the galaxy ending super synnthetics this cycle?

A very valid arguement.  However, if the Geth stay "loyal" to organics, I believe two things may happen.  First would be the development of Geth platforms that resemble other races.  Remember, Geth are software, not hardware therefore the creation of EVA/EDI like platforms would not be all that difficult.  This would mitigate the potential of other races  feeling the need to create more AI in their own image.  Second would be the fact that the Geth would be there to help stop whatever new "synthetic meance."

This is just me pondering the continued existance of the present cycle.    

It'll then turn into who polices the police? How do you keep something like that in check. I can already imagine civilizations disliking geth making their mechs. Revolts against them would probably break out. The Get would then act in self denfense, starting another war. It would only be a matter of time when the consensus finally decides to wipe us all out.

Which in turn makes them the same as reapers.

[balance5050]

EpyonX3 wrote...

TheCrazyHobo wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

TheCrazyHobo wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

TheCrazyHobo wrote...


See thats the thing, all that matters is this cycle.  Javik's cycle is irrelevant becasue everything about his cycle is gone, and all that is left is ruins.  In the current cycle, the players are shown Synths and Organcis can work together.  Each cycle is vastly different from the previous ones and the only thing that compares to it is the fact that the Reapers kill it every ~50,000 years.  

But to understand the reapers and their motives, you have to understand their past. This is why we're so confused or say it makes no sense because there is very little background on them. We don't know the kind of terror synthetics have caused that prompted the reapers to come into existance.

Heck the reapers are probably the first and the catalyst took control of them, which was probably the best option at the time. Seeing that the patter repeats and most likely the sole survivor of its race, it went crazy and came up with its twisted solution.

I understand your point and I do think it is valid.  What I am trying to say is that our cycle has overcome the whole "Synth vs Organics" drama.  We don't know anything about the Reapers except what the God-Child tell us and he  could be lying to us.  This is why everybody is speculating.   

I agree that this is a possibility. However, Geth could very well be joined by other synthetics created by other civilizations. Humans had a head start creating A.I.'s and security mechs. What if humans were the ones to create the galaxy ending super synnthetics this cycle?

A very valid arguement.  However, if the Geth stay "loyal" to organics, I believe two things may happen.  First would be the development of Geth platforms that resemble other races.  Remember, Geth are software, not hardware therefore the creation of EVA/EDI like platforms would not be all that difficult.  This would mitigate the potential of other races  feeling the need to create more AI in their own image.  Second would be the fact that the Geth would be there to help stop whatever new "synthetic meance."

This is just me pondering the continued existance of the present cycle.    

It'll then turn into who polices the police? How do you keep something like that in check. I can already imagine civilizations disliking geth making their mechs. Revolts against them would probably break out. The Get would then act in self denfense, starting another war. It would only be a matter of time when the consensus finally decides to wipe us all out.

Which in turn makes them the same as reapers.

Y U HATE ROBOTS!!!!???

Modifié par balance5050, 15 avril 2012 - 01:40 .

[EpyonX3]

Storm258 wrote...

I try to sum it up short. I'd say if you only look at the Mass Effect games themselves, the IT is probably the best and most plausible way to explain all those big plot holes, unability to talk back to starchild and so on. It opens the possibility that this horrible ending did not real happen and the real ending after Shepard waking up is yet to come (even though this is totally mean, of course), so for some time I really believed the IT to be true.
But it has one big problem: Reality. If you go beyond the game and look at our present reality and BioWares statements it's very unlikely that the IT is true. I am not talking about those things like "We won't change the ending, only clarify it" or "artistic vision" and stuff, no, that still could be part of: "Hey man, don't believe BioWare, they are just tricking is, they planned this all along!" but now the thing gets problematic: Why in the world would BioWare still keep it a secret and decide to suprise us later, when they see how many people protest and are even giving back their games - no company which is right now loosing many would decide not to stop this if it had the power (which they would have, if the IT were true, of course).

So my opinion: In the game: Yes, please, anything is besser than the current ending, I totally would accept the IT to be true.
But for reality: Very unlikely.

The sad thing is that BioWare actually could have made one of the greatest endings ever VIA the IT. Just think about it, you play the ending we all have seen and you have all those WTF?!-moments, are angry, sad and stuff. The credits start running. But then, right in the middle of the credits, it stops and the screen goes black. And suddenly you see Shepard waking up!
The circumstances he wakes up differ from what you chose before, like, Destruction = resist the indoctrination -> wakes up in London, squad finds Shepard or something
Control = giving in to the Reapers and get indoctrinated -> either failure or Shepards squad have to rescue Shepard (which actually could give the opportunity to like, play as Garrus to rescue Shepard or something like that).
What I try to say is, it could have been a complete awesome "mind = blown" using this IT, but of course it wasn't, we're all sad and frustrated ("it could have been soooo great!") and have to wait.
But nevertheless, how do you like my idea?

I would have personally liked seeing one of you best friends get indoctrinated, like Garrus Tali or Joker. The psycological thrill that would have been to find that out and ultimately having to fight them would have been cool. Either killing them as renegade or saving them from indoctrination as paragon.

[EpyonX3]

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

TheCrazyHobo wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

TheCrazyHobo wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

TheCrazyHobo wrote...


See thats the thing, all that matters is this cycle.  Javik's cycle is irrelevant becasue everything about his cycle is gone, and all that is left is ruins.  In the current cycle, the players are shown Synths and Organcis can work together.  Each cycle is vastly different from the previous ones and the only thing that compares to it is the fact that the Reapers kill it every ~50,000 years.  

But to understand the reapers and their motives, you have to understand their past. This is why we're so confused or say it makes no sense because there is very little background on them. We don't know the kind of terror synthetics have caused that prompted the reapers to come into existance.

Heck the reapers are probably the first and the catalyst took control of them, which was probably the best option at the time. Seeing that the patter repeats and most likely the sole survivor of its race, it went crazy and came up with its twisted solution.

I understand your point and I do think it is valid.  What I am trying to say is that our cycle has overcome the whole "Synth vs Organics" drama.  We don't know anything about the Reapers except what the God-Child tell us and he  could be lying to us.  This is why everybody is speculating.   

I agree that this is a possibility. However, Geth could very well be joined by other synthetics created by other civilizations. Humans had a head start creating A.I.'s and security mechs. What if humans were the ones to create the galaxy ending super synnthetics this cycle?

A very valid arguement.  However, if the Geth stay "loyal" to organics, I believe two things may happen.  First would be the development of Geth platforms that resemble other races.  Remember, Geth are software, not hardware therefore the creation of EVA/EDI like platforms would not be all that difficult.  This would mitigate the potential of other races  feeling the need to create more AI in their own image.  Second would be the fact that the Geth would be there to help stop whatever new "synthetic meance."

This is just me pondering the continued existance of the present cycle.    

It'll then turn into who polices the police? How do you keep something like that in check. I can already imagine civilizations disliking geth making their mechs. Revolts against them would probably break out. The Get would then act in self denfense, starting another war. It would only be a matter of time when the consensus finally decides to wipe us all out.

Which in turn makes them the same as reapers.

Y U HATE ROBOTS!!!!???

I don't hate robots. where did you get that from?

[balance5050]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Storm258 wrote...

I try to sum it up short. I'd say if you only look at the Mass Effect games themselves, the IT is probably the best and most plausible way to explain all those big plot holes, unability to talk back to starchild and so on. It opens the possibility that this horrible ending did not real happen and the real ending after Shepard waking up is yet to come (even though this is totally mean, of course), so for some time I really believed the IT to be true.
But it has one big problem: Reality. If you go beyond the game and look at our present reality and BioWares statements it's very unlikely that the IT is true. I am not talking about those things like "We won't change the ending, only clarify it" or "artistic vision" and stuff, no, that still could be part of: "Hey man, don't believe BioWare, they are just tricking is, they planned this all along!" but now the thing gets problematic: Why in the world would BioWare still keep it a secret and decide to suprise us later, when they see how many people protest and are even giving back their games - no company which is right now loosing many would decide not to stop this if it had the power (which they would have, if the IT were true, of course).

So my opinion: In the game: Yes, please, anything is besser than the current ending, I totally would accept the IT to be true.
But for reality: Very unlikely.

The sad thing is that BioWare actually could have made one of the greatest endings ever VIA the IT. Just think about it, you play the ending we all have seen and you have all those WTF?!-moments, are angry, sad and stuff. The credits start running. But then, right in the middle of the credits, it stops and the screen goes black. And suddenly you see Shepard waking up!
The circumstances he wakes up differ from what you chose before, like, Destruction = resist the indoctrination -> wakes up in London, squad finds Shepard or something
Control = giving in to the Reapers and get indoctrinated -> either failure or Shepards squad have to rescue Shepard (which actually could give the opportunity to like, play as Garrus to rescue Shepard or something like that).
What I try to say is, it could have been a complete awesome "mind = blown" using this IT, but of course it wasn't, we're all sad and frustrated ("it could have been soooo great!") and have to wait.
But nevertheless, how do you like my idea?

I would have personally liked seeing one of you best friends get indoctrinated, like Garrus Tali or Joker. The psycological thrill that would have been to find that out and ultimately having to fight them would have been cool. Either killing them as renegade or saving them from indoctrination as paragon.

I would have liked playing AS Garrus to take down an indoctrinated Shepard. One can hope.

[EpyonX3]

balance5050 wrote...


I would have liked playing AS Garrus to take down an indoctrinated Shepard. One can hope.

Equally epic. But what happens when you kill Shepard? Garrus is cool but he's no Shepard.

[Storm258]

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...


I would have liked playing AS Garrus to take down an indoctrinated Shepard. One can hope.

Equally epic. But what happens when you kill Shepard? Garrus is cool but he's no Shepard.

Hmmm ... I assume, if Shepard was indoctrinated, it wouldn't be like a Husk but like with Saren or TIM - and we know that it is to convince both of these guys to resist their Indoctrination, in the end, so there could still be a way to save Shepard (altough only his LI might be able to do this). And btw, that would have to be there anyway, cause otherwise the Control and Synthesis crap endings would pretty much stay as they are.
Otherwise ... we'd have the "Archangel: Chronicles" or what ever games ahead of us. ^^

[TheCrazyHobo]

EpyonX3 wrote...

TheCrazyHobo wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

TheCrazyHobo wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

TheCrazyHobo wrote...


See thats the thing, all that matters is this cycle.  Javik's cycle is irrelevant becasue everything about his cycle is gone, and all that is left is ruins.  In the current cycle, the players are shown Synths and Organcis can work together.  Each cycle is vastly different from the previous ones and the only thing that compares to it is the fact that the Reapers kill it every ~50,000 years.  

But to understand the reapers and their motives, you have to understand their past. This is why we're so confused or say it makes no sense because there is very little background on them. We don't know the kind of terror synthetics have caused that prompted the reapers to come into existance.

Heck the reapers are probably the first and the catalyst took control of them, which was probably the best option at the time. Seeing that the patter repeats and most likely the sole survivor of its race, it went crazy and came up with its twisted solution.

I understand your point and I do think it is valid.  What I am trying to say is that our cycle has overcome the whole "Synth vs Organics" drama.  We don't know anything about the Reapers except what the God-Child tell us and he  could be lying to us.  This is why everybody is speculating.   

I agree that this is a possibility. However, Geth could very well be joined by other synthetics created by other civilizations. Humans had a head start creating A.I.'s and security mechs. What if humans were the ones to create the galaxy ending super synnthetics this cycle?

A very valid arguement.  However, if the Geth stay "loyal" to organics, I believe two things may happen.  First would be the development of Geth platforms that resemble other races.  Remember, Geth are software, not hardware therefore the creation of EVA/EDI like platforms would not be all that difficult.  This would mitigate the potential of other races  feeling the need to create more AI in their own image.  Second would be the fact that the Geth would be there to help stop whatever new "synthetic meance."

This is just me pondering the continued existance of the present cycle.    

It'll then turn into who polices the police? How do you keep something like that in check. I can already imagine civilizations disliking geth making their mechs. Revolts against them would probably break out. The Get would then act in self denfense, starting another war. It would only be a matter of time when the consensus finally decides to wipe us all out.

Which in turn makes them the same as reapers.

Well seeings as you didn't understand what I said, I'll try again.  The Geth play a major role in the final hours of Mass Effect 3 (for most people) and would most likely "earn their place" in Galactic Society.  This would also be an easy thing to do seeings as most of the Galactic Community as dead and the highest population concentration is the Fleet around Earth.  Also, the Geth were made to serve and could easily serve and integrate into the wider galactic society.  It wouldn't be hard seeings as VI's are everywhere, they would simply take their place.  Also, Geth never intend to wipe out organic life, but serve it and preserve their own.  Seeing as overcoming racial prejudices is one the themes of the game, it wouldn't be hard lore wise.