88 réponses à ce sujet

[Geimhreadh]

I seem to recall reading somewhere that warp/disruptor ammo can also help work around shield gating. Is that (still) the case?

[Terraflare]

Yes, disruptor ammo effect applies before weapon damage. So say a hunter with 1 shield left gets hit by a widow headshot, it will die because disruptor strips the remaining shields before the shot under it kills the hunter.

[Blue Froman]

Stenun wrote...

I really don't understand why BioWare thought this mechanic was necessary. Would any of them care to explain?

You don't see how it's necessary? Enemies aren't the only thing with the shield gate, the players have that safeguard as well.  That's why when you take an atlas missle to the face with 10 shields, you're health doesn't immediatly drop, thus killing you.

[Stenun]

Blue Froman wrote...

Stenun wrote...

I really don't understand why BioWare thought this mechanic was necessary. Would any of them care to explain?

You don't see how it's necessary? Enemies aren't the only thing with the shield gate, the players have that safeguard as well.  That's why when you take an atlas missle to the face with 10 shields, you're health doesn't immediatly drop, thus killing you.

Of course it's necessary for the players but not for the enemies.  The players aren't the enemies and they shouldn't be treated as such.  Or, if they are going to have the exact same rules applied to them, where's my insta-kill move that lets me kill a Banshee by shoving my fist through her chest?

You can't apply the same rules to both sides, that does not equal game balance.

[Blue Froman]

Stenun wrote...

Blue Froman wrote...

Stenun wrote...

I really don't understand why BioWare thought this mechanic was necessary. Would any of them care to explain?

You don't see how it's necessary? Enemies aren't the only thing with the shield gate, the players have that safeguard as well.  That's why when you take an atlas missle to the face with 10 shields, you're health doesn't immediatly drop, thus killing you.

Of course it's necessary for the players but not for the enemies.  The players aren't the enemies and they shouldn't be treated as such.  Or, if they are going to have the exact same rules applied to them, where's my insta-kill move that lets me kill a Banshee by shoving my fist through her chest?

You can't apply the same rules to both sides, that does not equal game balance.

It keeps from every player choosing an infiltrator class, just one shotting every enemy, thus removing any sort of strategy or skill to complete any wave. God forbid we need to use teamwork to work around the shield gate

[Stenun]

Blue Froman wrote...
It keeps from every player choosing an infiltrator class, just one shotting every enemy, thus removing any sort of strategy or skill to complete any wave. God forbid we need to use teamwork to work around the shield gate

But the 100% Shield Gate on Gold means that hardly anyone takes snipers on Gold.  They've nerfed an entire class of weapons just because they don't want you to be able to one shot a Centurion.  Um, why?
Even the most powerful of sniper won't be able to one shot an Atlas or a Prime even without the Shield Gate but I fail to see it's necessity for enemies like a Centurion  or a Hunter.

[Siansonea]

Isn't there a sniper rifle that shoots in three-shot bursts? Would it be a good workaround to the Shield Gate?

[Blue Froman]

Siansonea II wrote...

Isn't there a sniper rifle that shoots in three-shot bursts? Would it be a good workaround to the Shield Gate?

it might, but its incredibly inaccurate.

[AzureSky899]

Yep it's stupid, that's why almost no one plays an Infiltrator anymore except me most of the time just to be the medic/objective guy

[Terraflare]

Once everyone breaks away from the mindset that snipers are meant to carry big 1 shot 10000 damage guns and destroy everything in 1 hit you will realise its not a problem and adds to the variety of weapons a infiltrator can use.

The shield gate makes it worthwhile to use the BW, if not it would just be another weapon relegated to the N7 heap of worthlessness like the talon and wraith.

[Yigorse]

This is a helpful thread. Should be a sticky imo.

Since sniper rifles do so much damage, their "weakness" against shields is so much bull**** when they can blow through them with a single shot. Sniper rifles are for armour, if you want to strip shields away, pick an automatic weapon (well... in THEORY, still waiting for the assault rifles to suck less Bioware).

I still feel so SO much more powerful playing as a sniper infiltrator than most of the other classes. If this mechanic wasn't in effect I'd never even bother playing anything else.

[neurovore]

There are a few different mechanics at work here, and I'm guessing some rather variable logic that spawned them.

1) As it was pointed out, Shield Gating is meant to keep snipers from one-shotting enemies. I guess this is to keep at least hunters, but probably phantoms and such from becoming trivial to a lone sniper.

2) I am also guessing, that it is intended as a way to keep rapid-fire weapons in some semblance of a balance, as they in turn suffer from armor. (...which sadly makes them fairly useless on higher diff levels).

3) I am further guessing, that due to the aforementioned, it is meant as a way to encourage synergy; rapid-fire peeps strip away shields, snipers take advantage of the opening.

Now, remember where I said "semblance of a balance"? Good. It would appear that though the individual pieces seem to have some logic in them, the whole is less than its parts. I can kind of understand enemy shields working the same way they do for players, but the way things turn out is that a sniper is probably the best guy to take the shields out as well, leaving SMGs and ARs (though it is possible that none are present, as powers can do the trick easily enough, even allowing for combos for superior damage that apparently ignores gating) "gate" the shield to let the sniper work the full force of his magic.

Or I might just be bitter as I still don't have a Black Widow to pair with my Widow VIII...

[BraveLToaster]

AzureSky899 wrote...

Yep it's stupid, that's why almost no one plays an Infiltrator anymore except me most of the time just to be the medic/objective guy

We must not be playing the same game, because there are tons of Infiltrators that I run into, and I like to play a Claymore Infiltrator myself from time to time.

[jsharkey]

I hate this game mechanic it was stupid how in SP was headshotting marauders with a black widow X with extended barrel while cloaked and they didn't take ANY damage past the shields. I know this saved Liara's life in LOSB but why did they have to put it in the actual game.

[RazRei]

I hate it since all weapons but the Shotguns (most) and the Harpoon gun can bypass it. As a Infiltrator its annoying as **** when get a headshot on a target and its left standing because it had 1 bar of shield/barrier etc still up. However I understand why its there. It still doesn't mean I don't think its frustrating to get over. Thank god for weapons like the Valiant and Black Widow for the Sniper.

[ItsRed]

Geimhreadh wrote...

I seem to recall reading somewhere that warp/disruptor ammo can also help work around shield gating. Is that (still) the case?

As a matter of fact, yes they can. I shall add why to the orignial post.

Disruptor Ammo
Disruptor Ammo can work around the Shield gate as when you fire the shot, the disruptor ammo Shield Damage is taken away from the target's shields before the original damage hits the Shield Gate. Essentialy this means that if Disruptor Ammo could do enough damage to the shields to take them down, there would be no Shield Gate left for the Bullet's damage to hit. This would allow you to 'one shot' enemies. However I have not tested this feature out yet as I don't have the disruptor ammo to waste. 

As for Warp Ammo, I'm not sure. Sorry.

[Tangster]

ItsRed wrote...

Geimhreadh wrote...

I seem to recall reading somewhere that warp/disruptor ammo can also help work around shield gating. Is that (still) the case?

As a matter of fact, yes they can. I shall add why to the orignial post.

Disruptor Ammo
Disruptor Ammo can work around the Shield gate as when you fire the shot, the disruptor ammo Shield Damage is taken away from the target's shields before the original damage hits the Shield Gate. Essentialy this means that if Disruptor Ammo could do enough damage to the shields to take them down, there would be no Shield Gate left for the Bullet's damage to hit. This would allow you to 'one shot' enemies. However I have not tested this feature out yet as I don't have the disruptor ammo to waste. 

As for Warp Ammo, I'm not sure. Sorry.

Same with Warp ammo. The ammo power damage is applied to the target before the actual shot.

[ItsRed]

Tangster wrote...

ItsRed wrote...

Geimhreadh wrote...

I seem to recall reading somewhere that warp/disruptor ammo can also help work around shield gating. Is that (still) the case?

As a matter of fact, yes they can. I shall add why to the orignial post.

Disruptor Ammo
Disruptor Ammo can work around the Shield gate as when you fire the shot, the disruptor ammo Shield Damage is taken away from the target's shields before the original damage hits the Shield Gate. Essentialy this means that if Disruptor Ammo could do enough damage to the shields to take them down, there would be no Shield Gate left for the Bullet's damage to hit. This would allow you to 'one shot' enemies. However I have not tested this feature out yet as I don't have the disruptor ammo to waste. 

As for Warp Ammo, I'm not sure. Sorry.

Same with Warp ammo. The ammo power damage is applied to the target before the actual shot.

The problem is that Warp Ammo doesn't do nearly enough damage to break something's Shields. It only works in Theory.

[Geimhreadh]

Warp Ammo gets bonuses on barriers, so there's currently only like 2 enemies in the entire game where it'd really come into play... which also happen to be arguably the most painful enemies for their respective armies.

[Kittstalkur]

ItsRed wrote...

This means in Gold difficulty, it is impossible to 'one shot' a shielded enemy without the use of powers.

Not true on Pyros. If you hit them in the head and the shot passes through to their flame tank, their shields will go down and they'll explode about a half second later.

You can also knock Combat Engineers down to two bars of health by hitting them from the front and going through to their backpack. Or if you get them from behind, you can kill them in one shot.

[ItsRed]

Kittstalkur wrote...

ItsRed wrote...

This means in Gold difficulty, it is impossible to 'one shot' a shielded enemy without the use of powers.

Not true on Pyros. If you hit them in the head and the shot passes through to their flame tank, their shields will go down and they'll explode about a half second later.

You can also knock Combat Engineers down to two bars of health by hitting them from the front and going through to their backpack. Or if you get them from behind, you can kill them in one shot.

Thank you for this input. It shall be added to this OP right now.

[Kittstalkur]

Blue Froman wrote...

it might, but its incredibly inaccurate.

And all three shots do barely any more damage than a single shot from a Viper.

[Kittstalkur]

ItsRed wrote...

Thank you for this input. It shall be added to this OP right now.

I should note, that's with a Mantis X/Barrel V with Tactical Cloak. The duration before the tank explodes depends on the amount of damage done to it.

[Felhand]

This crap is why I like my valiant, I will put all three shots in the face.

[ItsRed]

Felhand wrote...

This crap is why I like my valiant, I will put all three shots in the face.

Damn your Valiant. I'm stuck with the Widow. Which next to the Black Widow and Valiant, is completely useless in Gold.