126 réponses à ce sujet

[filetemo]

Druid: Kelly (loves every organic)
Bard: MORDIN!
Ranger: Legion (on the derelict reaper
Warrior: Grunt
Mage: Joker (flies the ship like magic)
Cleric: Thane
Sorcerer: Jack (fireballs ablaze)
Monk: Samara
Paladin: Kaidan

[VendettaI154]

Cool. Cool cool cool.

[filetemo]

Karrie788 wrote...

filetemo wrote...

I'd say garrus REALLY wants to be lawful but he ends as neutral good. If he was chaotic good he'd blow up facilities just because they poison the flora.

I don't think he wants to be lawful, he repeatedly complains about rules and regulations. That screams chaotic to me.

He wanted to be C-Sec. He wants peple to live by the law but it frustrates him that the law gets turned upon the enforcers. I'd even say young garrus was lawful neutral

[KingNothing125]

Samara is Lawful Good. Anyone who says otherwise needs to explain how. All the instances where her actions are questionable are easily explained.

When she kills the eclipse merc: the merc was armed and was offered a chance to surrender, she didn't take it. Furthermore, she's an eclipse merc. Eclipse mercs earn their uniforms by killing someone. Therefore she is literally wearing the evidence of her crimes.

The village she killed while hunting Morinth: Morinth had enthralled them. Samara had no choice.

Fighting Nihlus the Spectre: She gave up her pursuit where her only choice was letting him escape or letting an innocent die. If she was lawful neutral, she would have let the innocent die.

[Zix13]

byne wrote...

Zix13 wrote...

KingNothing125 wrote...

Zix13 wrote...

No. Samara is definately not LG. Thane is not TN. Reapers are neutral evil. TIM is lawful evil. Aria is... about as neutral as you get in ME. But definately not lawful. Actually not really sure where to put Aria, you don't really know anything about her. 

After reading your extremely uninformed opinion of Jack, I decided I'm not listening to you. You don't know much about anyone.

Lol. Because I refuse to believe someone can go from scumbag to good teacher person in 6 months? 

I must have missed the part where Jack was a scumbag and not just a troubled person who dealt with problems the only way she'd learned how: with violence.

Probably missed the part about her being a serial killer because she couldn't get over her past. "Biggest bundle of violence and hate" "killed 20 people or so, small time compared to most of the guys in here... you're here for Jack? Forget it I don't want anything to do with you." Maybe I just judge people by their actions and you don't.

[tractrpl]

It's funny, if "true neutral" is defined as listening and trying to understand everyone's point of view, instead of just prejudging based on your own personal biases, it seems to me that "true neutral" is simultaneously the only "true good".

[Karrie788]

filetemo wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

filetemo wrote...

I'd say garrus REALLY wants to be lawful but he ends as neutral good. If he was chaotic good he'd blow up facilities just because they poison the flora.

I don't think he wants to be lawful, he repeatedly complains about rules and regulations. That screams chaotic to me.

He wanted to be C-Sec. He wants peple to live by the law but it frustrates him that the law gets turned upon the enforcers. I'd even say young garrus was lawful neutral

He was pretty much pressured into it by his dad. And he hates his job. He wants to do good, but sees laws and regulations as an obstacle to that goal. Plus there's the whole Archangel business on Omega. Definitely chaotic good. Maybe he's more lawful about it in ME1, but to me his character screams more of uncertainty and confusion rather than dedication to the laws.

[M0keys]

Garrus was big on bypassing laws and torturing people and stuff in ME1 though. You have to basically train him out of that habit via the paragon path.

He's still a renegade good guy, though. Chaotic Good is where he goes in D&D land.

[Zix13]

Karrie788 wrote...

filetemo wrote...

I'd say garrus REALLY wants to be lawful but he ends as neutral good. If he was chaotic good he'd blow up facilities just because they poison the flora.

I don't think he wants to be lawful, he repeatedly complains about rules and regulations. That screams chaotic to me.

Garrus is chaotic good. He was a vigilante. Don't need to go any further than that.

[M0keys]

tractrpl wrote...

It's funny, if "true neutral" is defined as listening and trying to understand everyone's point of view, instead of just prejudging based on your own personal biases, it seems to me that "true neutral" is simultaneously the only "true good".

True neutral would be more concerned with "pure knowledge and truth." AKA, a total scientist. Mordin would probably be the ideal true neutral if Legion didn't exist.

See: Mordin & the Genophage.

Modifié par M0keys, 14 avril 2012 - 01:38 .

[Karrie788]

KingNothing125 wrote...

Samara is Lawful Good. Anyone who says otherwise needs to explain how. All the instances where her actions are questionable are easily explained.

When she kills the eclipse merc: the merc was armed and was offered a chance to surrender, she didn't take it. Furthermore, she's an eclipse merc. Eclipse mercs earn their uniforms by killing someone. Therefore she is literally wearing the evidence of her crimes.

The village she killed while hunting Morinth: Morinth had enthralled them. Samara had no choice.

Fighting Nihlus the Spectre: She gave up her pursuit where her only choice was letting him escape or letting an innocent die. If she was lawful neutral, she would have let the innocent die.

Samara is definitely lawful neutral. If she has to choose between saving a colony or obeying the code, she will obey the code without question. Her main motivation, her entire life, personality, all that she is is devoted to the code, not good. Doesn't get more lawful neutral than that. She has feelings, of course, as she shows when she wants to save Falere in ME3, but if she had no other way than killing her according to the code, she wouldn't have hesitated for a second.

[filetemo]

maybe you guys are right. Let's leave garrus at neutral good

ok, ok chaotic will do

Modifié par filetemo, 14 avril 2012 - 01:38 .

[byne]

Zix13 wrote...

byne wrote...

Zix13 wrote...

KingNothing125 wrote...

Zix13 wrote...

No. Samara is definately not LG. Thane is not TN. Reapers are neutral evil. TIM is lawful evil. Aria is... about as neutral as you get in ME. But definately not lawful. Actually not really sure where to put Aria, you don't really know anything about her. 

After reading your extremely uninformed opinion of Jack, I decided I'm not listening to you. You don't know much about anyone.

Lol. Because I refuse to believe someone can go from scumbag to good teacher person in 6 months? 

I must have missed the part where Jack was a scumbag and not just a troubled person who dealt with problems the only way she'd learned how: with violence.

Probably missed the part about her being a serial killer because she couldn't get over her past. "Biggest bundle of violence and hate" "killed 20 people or so, small time compared to most of the guys in here... you're here for Jack? Forget it I don't want anything to do with you." Maybe I just judge people by their actions and you don't.

I dont think I'd classify her as a serial killer. She killed people in fights and while she was part of a gang and stuff, yeah, but she never just straight up murdered random people for the lulz

Out of curiousity, did you ever romance Jack?

I didnt really like her much till I romanced her, but after that I liked her a lot. She's a really interesting character.

[Zix13]

byne wrote...

Zix13 wrote...

byne wrote...

Zix13 wrote...

KingNothing125 wrote...

Zix13 wrote...

No. Samara is definately not LG. Thane is not TN. Reapers are neutral evil. TIM is lawful evil. Aria is... about as neutral as you get in ME. But definately not lawful. Actually not really sure where to put Aria, you don't really know anything about her. 

After reading your extremely uninformed opinion of Jack, I decided I'm not listening to you. You don't know much about anyone.

Lol. Because I refuse to believe someone can go from scumbag to good teacher person in 6 months? 

I must have missed the part where Jack was a scumbag and not just a troubled person who dealt with problems the only way she'd learned how: with violence.

Probably missed the part about her being a serial killer because she couldn't get over her past. "Biggest bundle of violence and hate" "killed 20 people or so, small time compared to most of the guys in here... you're here for Jack? Forget it I don't want anything to do with you." Maybe I just judge people by their actions and you don't.

I dont think I'd classify her as a serial killer. She killed people in fights and while she was part of a gang and stuff, yeah, but she never just straight up murdered random people for the lulz

Out of curiousity, did you ever romance Jack?

I didnt really like her much till I romanced her, but after that I liked her a lot. She's a really interesting character.

Why would you romance a scumbag? I want to kill her on purgatory. If you have to make love to her to find out she has redeeming qualities, then you should have killed her. And she is a serial killer. She's on a ship filled with serial killers, and they all think shes the worst.

Modifié par Zix13, 14 avril 2012 - 01:40 .

[KingNothing125]

Karrie788 wrote...

Her main motivation, her entire life, personality, all that she is is devoted to the code, not good.

The code is good, though. I already gave an example of her choosing to protect innocents instead of pursuing her target... she could have killed Nihlus at the cost of innocent lives, but she chose to let him go to spare the innocent.

And again with the village, she had no choice. It was self defense. Morinth had enthralled them. She still managed to spare the children.

[Whimper]

My vote for True Neutral:  The Shadow Broker. He has dirt on everyone, sells to everyone, makes absolutely no moral judgments, works in a legal gray area, and punishes only those who betray him.  There is no clearer True Neutral than that.

Daedalus1773 wrote...

TIM is definitely not Lawful anything. He's the leader of a criminal terrorist organization for Pete's sake.

I agree completely.  A Lawful character works within the bounds of the law.  Lawful Evil ones subvert the law or misinterpret it or apply it to gain power, certainly.  Lawful Evil characters do not stage armed attacks on government organizations, steal military assets, sow chaos everywhere, or lie to everyone about everything.  The Illusive Man is evil- he achieves his goals with no regard for innocent life- but he's not lawful in the least!

[omphaloskepsis]

Mr_Blue wrote...
http://i.imgur.com/A8uor.jpg

So good.  That might even be a better fit for the ME universe than the traditional alignment system. 

[Zix13]

KingNothing125 wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Her main motivation, her entire life, personality, all that she is is devoted to the code, not good.

The code is good, though. I already gave an example of her choosing to protect innocents instead of pursuing her target... she could have killed Nihlus at the cost of innocent lives, but she chose to let him go to spare the innocent.

And again with the village, she had no choice. It was self defense. Morinth had enthralled them. She still managed to spare the children.

The code is as much about vengeance as good. It's the equivalent of the followers of (Helm or Tyr, Helm I think) in D&D. Lawful neutral as ****. 

Modifié par Zix13, 14 avril 2012 - 01:51 .

[Karrie788]

That would be Helm indeed. ^^

KingNothing125 wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Her main motivation, her entire life, personality, all that she is is devoted to the code, not good.

The code is good, though. I already gave an example of her choosing to protect innocents instead of pursuing her target... she could have killed Nihlus at the cost of innocent lives, but she chose to let him go to spare the innocent.

And again with the village, she had no choice. It was self defense. Morinth had enthralled them. She still managed to spare the children.

The code is not necessarily good. The people who wrote it might have been, but the code itself is as neutral as it can get. Remember that the code also told Samara that she would have to escape Illium's police even if it meant the cost of innocent lives.

I agree that at core she is probably a good person, a loving mother, etc. But she decided to wipe that all away to become a Justicar. A servant of the code. And she says herself that the code does not exist to glorify the mind.

Modifié par Karrie788, 14 avril 2012 - 01:54 .

[KingNothing125]

Karrie788 wrote...

Remember that the code also told Samara that she would have to escape Illium's police even if it meant the cost of innocent lives.

The police could have let her go and she wouldn't have to kill anyone.

[Karrie788]

KingNothing125 wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Remember that the code also told Samara that she would have to escape Illium's police even if it meant the cost of innocent lives.

The police could have let her go and she wouldn't have to kill anyone.

That's irrelevant. She would have killed them without regret.

[omphaloskepsis]

Zix13 wrote...
Why would you romance a scumbag? I want to kill her on purgatory. If you have to make love to her to find out she has redeeming qualities, then you should have killed her. And she is a serial killer. She's on a ship filled with serial killers, and they all think shes the worst.

I think we all have our own take on the characters, and it probably depends on how many playthroughs you do as well (and paragon/renegade choices).

That being said, you come off as a little biased against Jack. 

I strongly believe she was CN in ME2 and CG in ME3, and it seemed like a natural evolution to me.  IMO, A lot of Jack's talk was nothing but attitude, though with real bad-assery behind it.  Also, I always interpreted the prison response to Jack more as fear (almost awe) rather than disgust.  But once again, that was my interpretation.  The whole point of the Jack intro was to show that she's a biotic badass, though, so I feel like that's a reasonable read of the writer's intentions.

[Zix13]

KingNothing125 wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Remember that the code also told Samara that she would have to escape Illium's police even if it meant the cost of innocent lives.

The police could have let her go and she wouldn't have to kill anyone.

Thou wilst do as I say or I shall kill you. Sounds pretty much like lawful good to me.

/sarcasm

[KingNothing125]

Karrie788 wrote...

That's irrelevant. She would have killed them without regret.

That is impossible to know, as Shep helped her out of that predicament.

Also, this thread of logic fails as she would rather kill herself than kill Felere. Wouldn't she kill her without hesitation if she were Lawful Neutral?

[Zix13]

KingNothing125 wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

That's irrelevant. She would have killed them without regret.

That is impossible to know, as Shep helped her out of that predicament.

Also, this thread of logic fails as she would rather kill herself than kill Felere. Wouldn't she kill her without hesitation if she were Lawful Neutral?

Any alignment can have personal feelings. Even Morinth cared about her sisters.