787 réponses à ce sujet

[eyesofastorm]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

efive wrote...

I'll consider torrenting this game when it comes out. Buying EA products is taboo. Sorry Bioware but you need to shed the EA mark of shame.

GTFO.

Your response is inappropriate.  Fools do not deserve acknowledgement.  My stance on EA is relatively well known, but there is no and can be no excuse for stealing another person's creative work.  None.  

[Dragoonlordz]

eyesofastorm wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

efive wrote...

I'll consider torrenting this game when it comes out. Buying EA products is taboo. Sorry Bioware but you need to shed the EA mark of shame.

GTFO.

Your response is inappropriate.  Fools do not deserve acknowledgement.  My stance on EA is relatively well known, but there is no and can be no excuse for stealing another person's creative work.  None.  

You do know what GTFO means don't you? I get the impression you don't.

It is used to express indignation, usually towards stupidity, incompetence, or both.

It can be used in response to something that is unwelcome.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 14 avril 2012 - 02:41 .

[YohkoOhno]

Lilacs wrote...
What I see happening is restriction. Rather than allowing the players, us, to have control over the companions, you are restricting the player as to how he or she should play his or her character in a class system designed by you. I enjoy playing with my party, and I take great pleasure in customizing them, especially before a difficult encounter; that is truly enjoyable to me.  

Companions however, are not PCs.  They are NPCs, and you shouldn't have control over them.

That's probably why people get confused.  People who've been playing since Baldur's Gate have thought of it still being "their party", while over time gradually things have changed and you control an individual instead of a group.  Right now, DA still gives you tactical control, but the general direction is that they are fleshing out their personalities more and making them more cinematic, so I think it makes sense that there is a set of custom looks rather than total control over a character--you can improve their armor and chose some looks but there's going to be a general look that sticks--since you have no control over the character personality, it makes sense that you get less control over the character to fit the overall story.

Some people may not like that but this has been the direction Bioware has been going for years.  And I for one love the story based direction they go in.

Considering how much praise Deus Ex HR, Mass Effect, and The Witcher 2 gets, I'm surprised Bioware doesn't just make the companies true NPCs with only limited control over them in combat.

Modifié par YohkoOhno, 14 avril 2012 - 02:43 .

[syllogi]

Just PM mods about the person boasting about piracy and move along.

On topic: will elves, if it suits their personalities, be given a choice to wear shoes???

This is important.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Maria Caliban wrote...

eyesofastorm wrote...

err... unless you don't like this compromise.  Hadn't considered that possibility.

I said I liked it. On the first page.

Right before your post.

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

And I'm the one that didn't want compromise.

Then you're fine with this?

If it turns out to work how Mike just laid out, yes I'm fine because it gives me choices on how I outfit my party, if I want to put a mage in heavy armor I can do that, while it may not look like plate, it will at least have a "heavier visual" to it. I can deal with that if the game retains player choice on outfitting companions rather than the one size fits all with minor cosmetic differences.

[slashthedragon]

YohkoOhno wrote...

Lilacs wrote...
What I see happening is restriction. Rather than allowing the players, us, to have control over the companions, you are restricting the player as to how he or she should play his or her character in a class system designed by you. I enjoy playing with my party, and I take great pleasure in customizing them, especially before a difficult encounter; that is truly enjoyable to me.  

Companions however, are not PCs.  They are NPCs, and you shouldn't have control over them.

That's probably why people get confused.  People who've been playing since Baldur's Gate have thought of it still being "their party", while over time gradually things have changed and you control an individual instead of a group.  Right now, DA still gives you tactical control, but the general direction is that they are fleshing out their personalities more and making them more cinematic, so I think it makes sense that there is a set of custom looks rather than total control over a character--you can improve their armor and chose some looks but there's going to be a general look that sticks--since you have no control over the character personality, it makes sense that you get less control over the character to fit the overall story.

Some people may not like that but this has been the direction Bioware has been going for years.  

Considering how much praise Deus Ex HR, Mass Effect, and The Witcher 2 gets, I'm surprised Bioware doesn't just make the companies true NPCs with only limited control over them in combat.

JRPGs have been doing this for the longest time.  Is that the direction BW is headed?

[Ponendus]

syllogi wrote...

Just PM mods about the person boasting about piracy and move along.

On topic: will elves, if it suits their personalities, be given a choice to wear shoes???

This is important.

Will elves be in the game might be a better question. 

[eyesofastorm]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

You do know what GTFO means don't you? I get the impression you don't.

Do I strike you as an idiot?  I was suggesting you ignore such peole completely.  Fools like attention.  I think they call it, "Feeding the trolls".  

edit:  Also, I strongly dislike the suggestion of GTFO.  No one should be told to GTFO.  They should be instructed to sit quietly and listen until they are capable of joining the conversationi in an intelligent manner.  Otherwise, they will remain ignorant forever.

Modifié par eyesofastorm, 14 avril 2012 - 02:55 .

[YohkoOhno]

slashthedragon wrote...
JRPGs have been doing this for the longest time.  Is that the direction BW is headed?

I think Bioware has actually moved in the direction of a blend between so called JRPGs and WRPGs.  That also seems to be the direction you get now with DXHR, TW2.  You have a lot of options for your core character, maybe not in personality but in Build (ME has Shepard which you can choose gender and combat specialites, but he has a pretty well defined personality, same with Witcher's Geralt), but not over others.

Setting companions looks makes sense in this regard.  And I think it's done to improve the narrative, which is the real appeal of Bioware IMO.

Modifié par YohkoOhno, 14 avril 2012 - 02:51 .

[Lucy Glitter]

I wonder if this means that said concept art are companions for 3...

OHEI CASSANDRA

[Beerfish]

I highly approve of BioWare putting this kind of thing out there in a 'We are looking at doing things this way' kind of fashion with a lot of time before things get locked down or decided upon. They are not spoiling anything and yet they are going to get some honest direction and feedback from the fans before iron clad decisions are made.

This was lacking somewhat in DA2 and ME3 and some assumptions became rude suprises as far as fan reaction goes.

Once again, very good going on this BioWare if more topics like this come up as development goes you will get a good indication how some decisions are going to go over.

[Deviija]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Okay, let me put this out here:

• Suppose armor was purely stat dependant, not class. You need X strength to wear this mail, or what have you.
• We make sure that works with the player, but if you go "out of class" on a follower, it looks "okay" but not as one-to-one as if you stuck with the intended class.
• So: You take a bunch of strength with your mage, and you move plate onto your mage. His armor looks pretty "heavy" but doesn't look necessarily like plate. It still has all the stats that platemail has, though.
  If you moved that armor onto a warrior, it would look closer to how it looks on your player. (Since you'd be back in the expected space for that character's class)

Better? Worse? I ask because something like this might very well be possible.

Since/if unique costume (pieces) are a sure thing, then I suppose this could be okay for what compromise it is trying to offer.  I'd rather armor be stat-dependent than class-dependent.  There shouldn't be a reason (aside from artificial mechanics and productions costs, of course) for why a mage cannot put some heavier armor on, just like there shouldn't be a reason for why a warrior can't opt to wear light armor or even robes.  

I'd kind of need to see the end-result of what is being said, here, though.  What it means, for example, when a mage companion that 'goes outside of her class' looks like when wearing this heavier plate armor piece (or pieces).  I am gathering that it means that a character would then get more of a full-bodied default unique look, rather than being able to mix-match like one would with the individual pieces that fall within their class?  So a mage would have several different mage armor pieces that can be mix-matched individually and rendered on the character, but putting a light armor or heavy armor (or rogue and warrior armors, basically) on the character would have them default to one specific outfit look?  

I'd like that better.  Though I'd hope that the default 'outside of class' outfits would look sufficiently like the armor class they're from (i.e. heavy armor mage should look bulky and plate-y, rather than just adding a few strips of chainmail on).  That's just my interpretation, though.   To be honest, I wouldn't really be against this iconic looks issue if they came in a mix (but at least one costume per armor type) of Clothing/Robes, Light, Medium, and Heavy costumes.  Then if I wanted Alistair in Clothing, it's there, or if I wanted Morrigan in Heavy, it's there.  

[John Epler]

Hey, guess what. Telling us 'I'll just pirate your game' is a quick way to get a permanent forum vacation.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

John Epler wrote...

Hey, guess what. Telling us 'I'll just pirate your game' is a quick way to get a permanent forum vacation.

Snap that guy just got Eplered! 

[Satyricon331]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Okay, let me put this out here:

• Suppose armor was purely stat dependant, not class. You need X strength to wear this mail, or what have you.
• We make sure that works with the player, but if you go "out of class" on a follower, it looks "okay" but not as one-to-one as if you stuck with the intended class.
• So: You take a bunch of strength with your mage, and you move plate onto your mage. His armor looks pretty "heavy" but doesn't look necessarily like plate. It still has all the stats that platemail has, though.
  If you moved that armor onto a warrior, it would look closer to how it looks on your player. (Since you'd be back in the expected space for that character's class)

Better? Worse? I ask because something like this might very well be possible.

All else equal, I'd prefer stat-based restrictions to class-based ones, so this sounds better.  My worry here though is that not all else would be equal.  Would it be more resource-intensive to have platemail on a mage character?  I'd prefer having more robes and armors at the cost of class-restriction, to having no class restrictions at the cost of little robe and armor diversity.  (if that's a clear way of putting it.)

Modifié par Satyricon331, 14 avril 2012 - 03:30 .

[Blastback]

John Epler wrote...

Hey, guess what. Telling us 'I'll just pirate your game' is a quick way to get a permanent forum vacation.

I'll never understand just what it is that drives people to say things like that, when the consequences are so obvious.  And I'm okay continuing to not understand.

[Dragoonlordz]

Blastback wrote...

John Epler wrote...

Hey, guess what. Telling us 'I'll just pirate your game' is a quick way to get a permanent forum vacation.

I'll never understand just what it is that drives people to say things like that, when the consequences are so obvious.  And I'm okay continuing to not understand.

I believe the phrase "common sense, not so common" applies.

[Dragoonlordz]

Beerfish wrote...

I highly approve of BioWare putting this kind of thing out there in a 'We are looking at doing things this way' kind of fashion with a lot of time before things get locked down or decided upon. They are not spoiling anything and yet they are going to get some honest direction and feedback from the fans before iron clad decisions are made.

This was lacking somewhat in DA2 and ME3 and some assumptions became rude suprises as far as fan reaction goes.

Once again, very good going on this BioWare if more topics like this come up as development goes you will get a good indication how some decisions are going to go over.

There is also the secondary benefit of it gives people a reason to take part if can see the developers asking for feedback on specific issuses. A purpose and feeling that even if do not do exactly what some want they interacted with and discussed what people want to see in a very good method. I always believe structured feedback in the form of specific questions asked of the fans is the most productive way. Unfortuantly some sections of the forums exclude this as a possibility right now but it is very good this section is using such methods.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 14 avril 2012 - 03:25 .

[Blastback]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Blastback wrote...

John Epler wrote...

Hey, guess what. Telling us 'I'll just pirate your game' is a quick way to get a permanent forum vacation.

I'll never understand just what it is that drives people to say things like that, when the consequences are so obvious.  And I'm okay continuing to not understand.

I believe the phrase "common sense, not so common" applies.

Had to post it.

Modifié par Blastback, 14 avril 2012 - 03:25 .

[Uhh.. Jonah]

I like this idea.

[TheJediSaint]

John Epler wrote...

Hey, guess what. Telling us 'I'll just pirate your game' is a quick way to get a permanent forum vacation.

On a completely unrelated note, I'm waiting to be able to commit piracy (maritime) IN a Dragon Age game.

ARRGGG!

Modifié par TheJediSaint, 14 avril 2012 - 03:41 .

[Zexiv]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

[*]
It would be something along the lines ot taking that follower's "heaviest" customization options and create a visual mapping that ties them to anything heavier than cloth. It would be a best-fit kind of thing, and not offer the same level of variety a mage follower would have with robes on. So, yes, something like generically heavy, and probably not looking like full-on platemail.

Another option would be to simply say "If follower armor =/= expected armor for follower class, follower appearance = base"

*ponders* I'll consider it.

[*]
[*]So if this were able to be implemented does it mean that there would be a shift in iconic apperence towards what ever the followers say two primary stats were?   For example if a two weapon fighting rogue PC decided to build a rogue NPC to be a Str/Dex based 2 Handed fighting rogue would the rogue NPC end up with heavier armor models than say a dex/cunning based rogue build. 
[*]
[*]My other question then would be as players who opted to do builds outside the box so to speak would the iconic visualization would be able to adapt?  Say the arcane warrior eventually ends up with an STR in the 30's to equip heavy armor does there model shift such that they can be displayed as wearing platemail.   
[*]Take it easy
[*]                      
[*]

[TEWR]

I approve. Bioware, you have received the TEWR Seal of Approval. Rejoice, for it comes complete with cookies and scotch.

No cake though. It's still a lie.

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

I would also like to see this. I would say the odds are pretty good of it happening, but we wouldn't lose robes entirely.

One of the things I can definitely give DAII some props for is how it started to do this, in regards to non-robey looking magewear.

Fugitive's Mantle, Mantle of the Champion, Bethany's starting armor, Merrill's romanced armor, etc.

Xewaka wrote...

Well, I'll miss the ability to put Leliana in Legion of the Dead Armor, but at least we're getting to use more than 10% of the loot.
EIDT: As mentioned above, what about weapons? Are our companions still going to be robbed one random skill tree?

They don't really need the other skill trees, but they should at least be able to equip the other weapons and use the basic attack animations.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 14 avril 2012 - 03:59 .

[The Sarendoctrinator]

Awesome idea. I really hope this makes it into the game.

Also, I'm interested to see if those characters in the concept art will end up being companions.

[Hrungr]

The more I look at it, the more I'm really digging that concept art - kudos!

Question: Has it been decided yet whether DA-Next is going with a new game engine or not?