787 réponses à ce sujet

[Dragoonlordz]

Zexiv wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...


It would be something along the lines ot taking that follower's "heaviest" customization options and create a visual mapping that ties them to anything heavier than cloth. It would be a best-fit kind of thing, and not offer the same level of variety a mage follower would have with robes on. So, yes, something like generically heavy, and probably not looking like full-on platemail.

Another option would be to simply say "If follower armor =/= expected armor for follower class, follower appearance = base"

*ponders* I'll consider it.

So if this were able to be implemented does it mean that there would be a shift in iconic apperence towards what ever the followers say two primary stats were?   For example if a two weapon fighting rogue PC decided to build a rogue NPC to be a Str/Dex based 2 Handed fighting rogue would the rogue NPC end up with heavier armor models than say a dex/cunning based rogue build. 

My other question then would be as players who opted to do builds outside the box so to speak would the iconic visualization would be able to adapt?  Say the arcane warrior eventually ends up with an STR in the 30's to equip heavy armor does there model shift such that they can be displayed as wearing platemail.   

Take it easy

All I think he means is that it will be akin to DA:O in that the stats dictate what you can wear but with the added element of what proposed here earlier having sets made up of peices, such peices would be unique to which ever companion or character equips it inline with the figure and shape and persona of that character. Therefore keeping the unique quality but tailoring every peice to all classes/companions instead of limiting to individual specific classes.

It would mean more work for them making each item available and different to each companion incase the player decides to pump stats to allow the usage of any specific armour peices.

The second issue is whether or not to keep stats on the armour constant or allowed adaption based on player choice picking different class to use it on. For example plate when equiped by rogue might say have dex instead of str or whether the armour stats are constant meaning peice gives str regardless of which class equips it. Not sure what they would do with regard to that part.

In theory there is a downside to the adaption theory being everyone would just wear plate all the time, so I think solution would either be reduced stat benefits if not mean't for that class compared to better ones when placed on the correct class or like said make all peices set in stone constant stats regardless of class uses it.

Both these elements increase time and effort to create and spend on this aspect during development and I am slightly concerned the cause and effect of additional time spent will mean the sacrifice or detriment of another elements or even the same element meaning less peices and sets being created due to more time taking to create. Thats my only concern.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 14 avril 2012 - 04:30 .

[Amycus89]

 Yeah, I too hope that those characters will make it in as companions in the final game (in case that isn't obvious). Your concept artist(s) should really be proud:wub:

[Eternal Phoenix]

Please tell me that armor actually will look like this in the game. That would be cool. The armor designs shown on that blog look awesome and it does seem to offer a better companion customization system than Origins. The Grey Warden companion can be equipped with various different armors but will always look awesomely cool and like a Grey Warden. I support that.

I hope long-flowing armor of such type is created for the game. Such armor was promised for DA2 and we only got the mage champion armor along with some rogue type armor which had long flowing pieces. Legacy added the Grey Warden armor which had that long flowing clothing piece but we need more armors of such type.

Seriously those armors look great and better than any armor I've seen in any DA game.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 14 avril 2012 - 04:00 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Hrungr wrote...

The more I look at it, the more I'm really digging that concept art - kudos!

Question: Has it been decided yet whether DA-Next is going with a new game engine or not?

I think but not sure that maybe the engine they might use is Frostbite (not sure what version while 2 is the DX11 form it does not support DX9 and generally they tend to use DX9 support in their titles). But this is just in back of my mind hearing it somewhere (might not be true).

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 14 avril 2012 - 04:01 .

[aldien]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Okay, let me put this out here:

• Suppose armor was purely stat dependant, not class. You need X strength to wear this mail, or what have you.
• We make sure that works with the player, but if you go "out of class" on a follower, it looks "okay" but not as one-to-one as if you stuck with the intended class.
• So: You take a bunch of strength with your mage, and you move plate onto your mage. His armor looks pretty "heavy" but doesn't look necessarily like plate. It still has all the stats that platemail has, though.
• If you moved that armor onto a warrior, it would look closer to how it looks on your player. (Since you'd be back in the expected space for that character's class)

Better? Worse? I ask because something like this might very well be possible.

I think stat dependant gives more freedom than class.

I wonder... if instead of finding loads of different pieces of armor, maybe there might be more incentive to find things that can improve the armor. Like a piece of lyrium or an undiscovered metal or some gems, and once those improvements are added, the armor starts to look better. I'm not saying don't have different styles or types of armor, but not a grabbag. It gets messy fast.

The armor might become like an old friend and change over time, and you can then go into an armor editor and change the color, add some frills, etc Plus, you could always add follower dialogue that has them moan and groan about the cheap armor and never stop bragging about their classy armor.

In this case, it would have nothing to do with stats but more to do with looks. So instead of having the pc searching to find a piece of armor with just the right look, the armor editor already has some predefined geometrical shapes to work with. You can add spikes or feathers etc. It would also give the player an initial reward upfront. They might have cheap armor but they can really make it their own.

So, in the end you see it go from a sad rusty iron breastplate to a piece of proud lyrium plate or chainmail or silk robes etc. Make it where people can import their own colors or symbols into the editor if they want.

But, my opinion at the moment, is that people are not taking into account their companions, because they are an unknown entitiy. Down the road, the followers' personalities, histories, gender etc are going to influence what the player wants as far as armor is concerned for them. They need that initial look that cliques with their personalities, that defines and seperates them from each other and the pc. If armor finds can be applied to anyone in the group that adds flexibility, but I'd like to see the occasional armor find, say on a big boss, that really suits a companion, makes them stand out from the crowd and gives them a bonus.

Modifié par aldien, 14 avril 2012 - 04:01 .

[Demx]

Interesting, but why did you guys show the chest piece and the shoulder pieces as separate items? They have been a single piece throughout the series. If anything it is misleading to the level of customization for the armor.

Modifié par Siradix, 14 avril 2012 - 04:06 .

[Amycus89]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Hrungr wrote...

The more I look at it, the more I'm really digging that concept art - kudos!

Question: Has it been decided yet whether DA-Next is going with a new game engine or not?

I think but not sure that maybe the engine they might use is Frostbite (not sure what version while 2 is the DX11 form it does not support DX9 and generally they tend to use DX9 support in their titles). But this is just in back of my mind hearing it somewhere (might not be true).

There was a rumor about that before yes. Same rumor also said that we would get multiplayer where we could play as dragons ourselves - which made me doubt the whole rumor.

Would be nice with the frostbit engine though, if they aren't planning on adding a toolset either way. But as long as the gameplay and/or the story is great though, I could care less about the graphics.

[TEWR]

I will say I'm not a huge fan of class restrictions on the armor pieces. I'd prefer stat restricted only. I mean, I wouldn't mind a few armors being class restricted if there was a valid reason for it, but that should be done sparingly IMO.

If I wasn't so tired these days, I'd give a huge rant about my ideas on what the armor system should be.

Count your blessings people. You don't have to suffer through another one of my rants =P.

Although Mike's been bringing up a lot of the ideas I had in my head, but didn't have the energy to devote to putting it in post form.

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Okay, let me put this out here:

1) Suppose armor was purely stat dependant, not class. You need X strength to wear this mail, or what have you.
2) We make sure that works with the player, but if you go "out of class" on a follower, it looks "okay" but not as one-to-one as if you stuck with the intended class.
3) So: You take a bunch of strength with your mage, and you move plate onto your mage. His armor looks pretty "heavy" but doesn't look necessarily like plate. It still has all the stats that platemail has, though.
4) If you moved that armor onto a warrior, it would look closer to how it looks on your player. (Since you'd be back in the expected space for that character's class)

Better? Worse? I ask because something like this might very well be possible.

Using this idea seems to be the best way to retain player agency and iconic looks in one go. It keeps the merit of the originally proposed idea from the concept art we saw at PAX while allowing a player to not be restricted by arbitrary rules of "Only Mages can equip this".

So I can safely say that I'm confident in where Bioware is heading in theory. Whether they can do this stuff in practice waits to be seen.

Crustybot wrote...

That'd be a massive improvement over what's being discussed, yes.

Of course, if you want to ramp it up a little more (according to my tastes), you'd remove Attribute restrictions on non-magical/special armors and simply have effectiveness scale according to stats. Then create different streams of armors that speak to various playstyles (Chainmail = Strong v Swords, Weak v Bows; Plate = Strong vs Swords, Strong v Bows, slower movement/attack speed).

And in an ideal world, you'd apply this philosophy to Weapons, too. Dual Wielding Warriors, Warrior Archers, Rogues with Swords, or even Staves (no magical effects).

Still, that's a pretty solid proposal.

Shades of the Fire Emblem games right there, where swords were great against axes but weak against lances. Lances were weak against axes.

Though the weapon triangle could be reversed if you had a Lancereaver (a sword), an axereaver (a lance), or a swordreaver (an axe). There were also hammers. These were specially made axe like weapons that were incredibly useful against heavily armored foes like Knights and Generals.

Magic also had its own triangle. And bows would be great against aerial units.

I imagine this kind of stuff is commonplace for CRPGs, but I've seen it happen in Fire Emblem the most. So I could definitely get behind a similar system being implemented somewhat in conjunction with Mike's best idea for a compromise.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 14 avril 2012 - 04:29 .

[Amycus89]

Siradix wrote...

Interesting, but why did you guys show the chest piece and the shoulder pieces as separate items? They have been a single piece throughout the series. If anything it is misleading to the level of customization for the armor.

Or maybe shoulder pads will have their own separate slot now...? I can dream can I?

[TheJediSaint]

One thing I'm curious about, could this appearance customization idea also apply to player-characters? Essentially, being able to customize pieces of armor or clothing to allow the player to create a "signature" look for their characters.

[Demx]

Amycus89 wrote...

Siradix wrote...

Interesting, but why did you guys show the chest piece and the shoulder pieces as separate items? They have been a single piece throughout the series. If anything it is misleading to the level of customization for the armor.

Or maybe shoulder pads will have their own separate slot now...? I can dream can I?

That would be an interesting, but I think they would also need to separate the leg armor (knee armor?) as well.

[Amycus89]

Siradix wrote...

Amycus89 wrote...

Siradix wrote...

Interesting, but why did you guys show the chest piece and the shoulder pieces as separate items? They have been a single piece throughout the series. If anything it is misleading to the level of customization for the armor.

Or maybe shoulder pads will have their own separate slot now...? I can dream can I?

That would be an interesting, but I think they would also need to separate the leg armor (knee armor?) as well.

Aren't they just separate boots?

Most boots look different from eachother, even if it usually are only very small differences..

And to quote from the blog:
"
Doing armies in “pieces” like this means we can expand the variations to other portions of the armor… so gauntlets, lower body, or shoulders. Like so:"

Oh, and btw Bioware, please bring back the armor set bonuses

Modifié par Amycus89, 14 avril 2012 - 04:22 .

[Icinix]

Hrungr wrote...

The more I look at it, the more I'm really digging that concept art - kudos!

Question: Has it been decided yet whether DA-Next is going with a new game engine or not?

Yeah, me too. The concept art is more Game of Thrones than DA2 - which is fantastic.

[Zexiv]

Dragoonlordz wrote...
[*]

Both these elements increase time and effort to create and spend on this aspect during development and I am slightly concerned the cause and effect of additional time spent will mean the sacrifice or detriment of another elements or even the same element meaning less peices and sets being created due to less more time taking to create. Thats my only concern.

[*] 
[*]I get your concern and I'm not sure what the schedule would allow for incorperating feedback.  When I read the idea I read it as being able to display Heavy, Medium, and Light armors for each follower based on what the charecter had equipped and that would be limited in terms of armor on the the charecters str due to the armor's weight.  Which would mean having three models for the NPC.   That would definately be more work but it would allow a fair amount of flexibility apperence wise. 
[*] 
[*]This would still be more restrictive than Origins in that there aren't several different armor models that could be applied but would allow for some custimization when playing an NPC in a context that isn't the norm.  The majority of the time the standard model would be used since it was based off of stats but there could be corner cases where the player opted something out of the box Dex based fighter, str based rogue, str int based mage that the apperence would be capable of shifting to.
[*]Take it easy

Modifié par Zexiv, 14 avril 2012 - 04:32 .

[The Sarendoctrinator]

TheJediSaint wrote...

One thing I'm curious about, could this appearance customization idea also apply to player-characters? Essentially, being able to customize pieces of armor or clothing to allow the player to create a "signature" look for their characters.

The blog says it's a possibility. I'd love to see it happen. More options to customize our characters is always a good thing.

[Hayes1987]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Okay, let me put this out here:

• Suppose armor was purely stat dependant, not class. You need X strength to wear this mail, or what have you.
• We make sure that works with the player, but if you go "out of class" on a follower, it looks "okay" but not as one-to-one as if you stuck with the intended class.
• So: You take a bunch of strength with your mage, and you move plate onto your mage. His armor looks pretty "heavy" but doesn't look necessarily like plate. It still has all the stats that platemail has, though.
• If you moved that armor onto a warrior, it would look closer to how it looks on your player. (Since you'd be back in the expected space for that character's class)

Better? Worse? I ask because something like this might very well be possible.

[*]Hhhmmm......I don't know man. Maybe I'm just not understanding what you mean but I am not convinced this would be a great way to do it. Is the mage who wears the heavy armor weighted down or is the armor itself less thick? Does this effect spell casting speed or movement speed?
[*]I'm thinking that if your going to go for a class system you should probably go all in. Cuz in the end, there will still be a "right" and a "wrong" way to utilize a character. But maybe not idk........:innocent:

[Hrungr]

Amycus89 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I think but not sure that maybe the engine they might use is Frostbite (not sure what version while 2 is the DX11 form it does not support DX9 and generally they tend to use DX9 support in their titles). But this is just in back of my mind hearing it somewhere (might not be true).

There was a rumor about that before yes. Same rumor also said that we would get multiplayer where we could play as dragons ourselves - which made me doubt the whole rumor.

Would be nice with the frostbit engine though, if they aren't planning on adding a toolset either way. But as long as the gameplay and/or the story is great though, I could care less about the graphics.

Heh... I always used to say I didn't play DA for the graphics. But having played Skyrim now... yeah, I want the whole package - the story, the characters... and graphics to make god-boxes weep.

[Bio Addict]

Have you guys decided how flexible you're going to be with companion weapons yet? Could I give the Grey Warden from your concept art a two handed great sword for example or is he strictly sword and board?

[LilyasAvalon]

*Gasps* Are those ACTUALLY are followers?

I approve of the beard!

[The Sarendoctrinator]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

*Gasps* Are those ACTUALLY are followers?

I approve of the beard!

I hope so, but I don't think it's been confirmed (not that I'm up to date on all the latest DA3 info). I like the idea of having a Grey Warden and a Seeker on the team. The Seeker reminds me of Cassandra, and the Warden's design looks awesome.

[Demx]

Amycus89 wrote...

Siradix wrote...

Amycus89 wrote...

Siradix wrote...

Interesting, but why did you guys show the chest piece and the shoulder pieces as separate items? They have been a single piece throughout the series. If anything it is misleading to the level of customization for the armor.

Or maybe shoulder pads will have their own separate slot now...? I can dream can I?

That would be an interesting, but I think they would also need to separate the leg armor (knee armor?) as well.

Aren't they just separate boots?

Most boots look different from eachother, even if it usually are only very small differences..

And to quote from the blog:
"
Doing armies in “pieces” like this means we can expand the variations to other portions of the armor… so gauntlets, lower body, or shoulders. Like so:"

Oh, and btw Bioware, please bring back the armor set bonuses

Well for armor you can get upper leg and lower leg armor to go on top of your boots. But I think separating the boots from the leg armor would make sense with the amount of separation that would be going on above the waist.

[LilyasAvalon]

The Sarendoctrinator wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

*Gasps* Are those ACTUALLY are followers?

I approve of the beard!

I hope so, but I don't think it's been confirmed (not that I'm up to date on all the latest DA3 info). I like the idea of having a Grey Warden and a Seeker on the team. The Seeker reminds me of Cassandra, and the Warden's design looks awesome.

I thought it was Cassandra .-.

I hope they are our companions too, I mean, to have a warden again would be GREAT, but this means I'm more likely to not get my Cullen companion. T_T

[Tomezilla]

I love that idea, and would be totally accepting of it in the next Dragon Age.

[DarkSpider88]

To tell you the truth I think the system looks and sounds pretty awesome. Really like the idea of the same armor looking different on other followers.

However if this becomes unfeasible may I offer what I think may be a viable middle ground?  Add to the system in DA2 but in essence followers would have only 1 or 2 base outfits. The difference from DA2 is that we can find items to add to our followers that will modify their apparance. Say I found the 'the swashbucklers' trousers' and added them to Isabella, she would get pants (alebit very tight and sexy pants) and a boost to defense. Possibly bring back the Armor Smith from DA1 and say I found more drake scales and he made 'magic drake lining' and you added it to Anders, this would turn the fur on Anders robes dark blue and the fur trim black. Basically have items like you did in DA2 but allow those items to alter the models base appearance. However make their more items to find for comoanions, with more variety of effects for them.

[Amycus89]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

The Sarendoctrinator wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

*Gasps* Are those ACTUALLY are followers?

I approve of the beard!

I hope so, but I don't think it's been confirmed (not that I'm up to date on all the latest DA3 info). I like the idea of having a Grey Warden and a Seeker on the team. The Seeker reminds me of Cassandra, and the Warden's design looks awesome.

I thought it was Cassandra .-.

I hope they are our companions too, I mean, to have a warden again would be GREAT, but this means I'm more likely to not get my Cullen companion. T_T

DA:O had Sten, Ogren and Alistar as warriors, and DA2 had Fenris, Aveline and carver, so there is still one more warrior spot possible. And considering the setting that DA3 will take place in, I think that a templar companion is very likely.

Modifié par Amycus89, 14 avril 2012 - 05:31 .