787 réponses à ce sujet

[cindercatz]

EintagsBigB wrote...

I really like this concept of the customizable NPC. I found DAII really lacked the variety where the followers really changed their appearance over the course of the game.
I have however one concern: What if I really like one style of armor that I get early on in the game and want to keep that style, but the better armors all have a look that doesn't suit me?

And another question: Will the main character also have an distinct look with upgradable armor parts (such as in DAII it could be that the base armor style is always the champion armor and depending on what you equipped it "changes") or will the whole body change for the protagonist?

On the first question, they could solve that, in terms of balance, by re-applying the weight mechanic from DA:O (and ME3 sorta). Heavier materials (later, more expensive basic armors) could actually apply weight penalties, same as DA:O, but provide more protection, and you as the player decide which trade-off you want to make. That way, if you like a certain lower grade look over another, you would still benefit from that choice in a different way. And maybe you want certain characters in leather rather than steel, for instance, and you develope your builds accordingly.

And on the second part: Good question. :-) I imagine he or she would also have a unique version of each armor piece, but maybe also have a few defined player only armors as well.

Modifié par cindercatz, 20 avril 2012 - 07:56 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

cindercatz wrote...

On the first question, they could solve that, in terms of balance, by re-applying the weight mechanic from DA:O (and ME3 sorta). Heavier materials (later, more expensive basic armors) could actually apply weight penalties, same as DA:O, but provide more protection, and you as the player decide which trade-off you want to make.

Mike Laidlaw hated the fatigue system in DAO.  I didn't like that the game was penalising players for using their abilities.

I don't understand his position at all.  I suspect he thinks the cost of using heavy armour is the high strength requirements, but the high strength has other benefits to offset that (like higher damage numbers).  As such, there does need to be a tradeoff with heavier armour, and the fatigue system in DAO worked wonderfully in that regard.

DA2's seems intended only to reward the player, and never punish him, and that's just not a fun game.

[TEWR]

In Exile wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

If I want to make Oghren run around naked because that's in line with his character, I should be able to do something like that. 

I think this should never happen. Not the naked part, but the player decided what's "in-character" for any character that isn't the created PC.

But it would be in line with Oghren's character. He's a drunken buffoon prone to making an idiot out of himself. Him running around naked would fit with his established character.

I wouldn't be deciding what his character is. I would be using his established character to make him do something that reflects it.

[Dave of Canada]

I think Oghren running around naked should be a character event rather than something the player randomly decides to do in the middle of the Fade.

[syllogi]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

cindercatz wrote...

On the first question, they could solve that, in terms of balance, by re-applying the weight mechanic from DA:O (and ME3 sorta). Heavier materials (later, more expensive basic armors) could actually apply weight penalties, same as DA:O, but provide more protection, and you as the player decide which trade-off you want to make.

Mike Laidlaw hated the fatigue system in DAO.  I didn't like that the game was penalising players for using their abilities.

I don't understand his position at all.  I suspect he thinks the cost of using heavy armour is the high strength requirements, but the high strength has other benefits to offset that (like higher damage numbers).  As such, there does need to be a tradeoff with heavier armour, and the fatigue system in DAO worked wonderfully in that regard.

DA2's seems intended only to reward the player, and never punish him, and that's just not a fun game.

To me, it's not a punishment, but rather a price.  

I don't want to be handed my entertainment.  I want a cost to consider in all of the mechanics of the game.  Whether it's a cooldown, friendly fire, immunities, a chance of screwing up, etc., I want to be forced to consider the consequences of my actions.  

Tedium and boredom is a price, too, especially if other, more deliberate prices aren't taken into account.  I'd much rather have to think strategically than have to cringe at how easy and dull the game I'm playing has become.

[TEWR]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I think Oghren running around naked should be a character event rather than something the player randomly decides to do in the middle of the Fade.

Ideally, it should be a cameo where he's drunk and obviously naked whilst riding a gorilla into battle against the Darkspawn.

But barring that since it gives John Epler nightmares, if I could make him naked in the Fade during the Blackmarsh quest it would help to make it even better. Though then we'd enter into the "Why is your companion naked" area that would need to be recognized. And that'd be awesome.

The more I think about it, the more I end up laughing.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 20 avril 2012 - 05:46 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

syllogi wrote...

I don't want to be handed my entertainment. 

Exactly.  If it's too simple, then it's not fun.

I want a cost to consider in all of the mechanics of the game.

As do I.  I rememer being disappointing by the Destinies in Kingdoms of Amalur because each successive Destiny gained in each line was unequivocally better than the one it replaced.  That was a serious failing of the game.

[Dave of Canada]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

The more I think about it, the more I end up laughing.

I think JEpler would be much more disturbed by an entire scene devoted to Oghren's nakedness.

[TEWR]

Dave of Canada wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

The more I think about it, the more I end up laughing.

I think JEpler would be much more disturbed by an entire scene devoted to Oghren's nakedness.

Especially if he was the one that had to create it. 

[kingsims]

Just make Dragon age Origins 2. Use the same engine and everything. Nothing is wrong with that game except the combat. It outsold DA2 2:1 and pretty much got 9.0+ on every major website. I suggest anyone who is going to work on DA3 to replay DA:O and Awakenings + DLC to see why the game was it was a better game.

Modifié par kingsims, 20 avril 2012 - 06:55 .

[cindercatz]

syllogi wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

cindercatz wrote...

On the first question, they could solve that, in terms of balance, by re-applying the weight mechanic from DA:O (and ME3 sorta). Heavier materials (later, more expensive basic armors) could actually apply weight penalties, same as DA:O, but provide more protection, and you as the player decide which trade-off you want to make.

Mike Laidlaw hated the fatigue system in DAO.  I didn't like that the game was penalising players for using their abilities.

I don't understand his position at all.  I suspect he thinks the cost of using heavy armour is the high strength requirements, but the high strength has other benefits to offset that (like higher damage numbers).  As such, there does need to be a tradeoff with heavier armour, and the fatigue system in DAO worked wonderfully in that regard.

DA2's seems intended only to reward the player, and never punish him, and that's just not a fun game.

To me, it's not a punishment, but rather a price.  

I don't want to be handed my entertainment.  I want a cost to consider in all of the mechanics of the game.  Whether it's a cooldown, friendly fire, immunities, a chance of screwing up, etc., I want to be forced to consider the consequences of my actions.  

Tedium and boredom is a price, too, especially if other, more deliberate prices aren't taken into account.  I'd much rather have to think strategically than have to cringe at how easy and dull the game I'm playing has become.

Totally agreed, except I never like basic enemies to have random immunities, and I agree with keeping friendly fire optional, because it's not true that we have total control over targeting (for instance, an archer firing over an ally's head to hit the enemy on the other side, mages not being able to direct their energies directly, etc.). If an enemy has a particular immunity, it should be lore and beastiary derived. Y'know, snake type things, dragons, poison using assassins, etc., would tend to be more poison resistent or immune, dragons would be heavily resistant to fire, elemental mages would have a chance to redirect or absorb elemental magic, etc.

And hopefully Mike Laidlaw will change his mind.

Modifié par cindercatz, 20 avril 2012 - 11:34 .

[Guitarjoe91]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Okay, let me put this out here:

• Suppose armor was purely stat dependant, not class. You need X strength to wear this mail, or what have you.
• We make sure that works with the player, but if you go "out of class" on a follower, it looks "okay" but not as one-to-one as if you stuck with the intended class.
• So: You take a bunch of strength with your mage, and you move plate onto your mage. His armor looks pretty "heavy" but doesn't look necessarily like plate. It still has all the stats that platemail has, though.
• If you moved that armor onto a warrior, it would look closer to how it looks on your player. (Since you'd be back in the expected space for that character's class)

Better? Worse? I ask because something like this might very well be possible.

This sounds awesome.  Would it be kind of like how the champion armor looks on warriors vs mages?

[cindercatz]

Guitarjoe91 wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Okay, let me put this out here:

• Suppose armor was purely stat dependant, not class. You need X strength to wear this mail, or what have you.
• We make sure that works with the player, but if you go "out of class" on a follower, it looks "okay" but not as one-to-one as if you stuck with the intended class.
  
• So: You take a bunch of strength with your mage, and you move plate onto your mage. His armor looks pretty "heavy" but doesn't look necessarily like plate. It still has all the stats that platemail has, though.
  
• If you moved that armor onto a warrior, it would look closer to how it looks on your player. (Since you'd be back in the expected space for that character's class)

Better? Worse? I ask because something like this might very well be possible.

This sounds awesome.  Would it be kind of like how the champion armor looks on warriors vs mages?

That does sound awesome. I hope they go with those ideas as well. Great!

[Weltenschlange]

Apologies if this has been brought up before but I don't think that the main problem in DA2 regarding follower armor was the fact that you couldn't change their appearance by equipping them with new armor.
IMO the actual problem was that you simply couldn't give them any armor at all.
I would have been perfectly fine with a system where for example having Isabella wear the nice enchanted leathers I just found but can't use would have only changed her stats but not her appearance.
I can't imagine how such a system would have cost more resources than the underwhelming armor upgrades we got instead.

Anyway, the new system as described in the blog sounds great. Although to me it seems as if you would need even more resources for that compared to the one in Origins. Maybe I misunderstood the description?

[cindercatz]

Weltenschlange wrote...

Apologies if this has been brought up before but I don't think that the main problem in DA2 regarding follower armor was the fact that you couldn't change their appearance by equipping them with new armor.
IMO the actual problem was that you simply couldn't give them any armor at all.
I would have been perfectly fine with a system where for example having Isabella wear the nice enchanted leathers I just found but can't use would have only changed her stats but not her appearance.
 

I would absolutely hate that. ... I do care about appearance customization and progression just as much as stat progression in Dragon Age. Any time I make a change, I want to see that change. We basically had that system in both games for accessories, and I could care less about accessories for that reason. lol We also got no change for all the armor upgrades we found, and I care not at all about those for the same reason. I have no connection to a simple batch of numbers and stats.

[Ianamus]

I like the idea of this new system,  particularly the part about compartmentalising armour, as it will not only add to the number of variations of appearance for companions but also gives us the option of more combinations stats wise. It should also solve the problem of the majority of loot being either unusable by the player or junk loot. 

But I would have to see how it works in practice before I make up my mind on it overall. The idea sounds good in theory but if, for example, the "variation" in shoulder armour for the Seeker comes down to the same three designs over and over but with only small colour/texture variations then it's not much of an improvement. If it means many unique shapes and styles then it's a colossal improvement. 

I have one small request though: While some of the helmets in the latter images looked awesome I would appreciate being given a helmet toggle, so that if we don't like a particular helmet or just want to see the characters faces we can. While I usually prefer to keep helmets on I think that it would be a good option for those who don't. 

Modifié par EJ107, 21 avril 2012 - 07:25 .

[rapscallioness]

Gotta say I'm loving these ideas with the armor customizations in the blog!

I like the variation in look while keeping it anchored to the iconic appearance. And mix and match variations...giggity!

I hope you all follow thru with this. I like where it's going.

[sindrie111]

I like this alot, this is what I thought the DA1 and 2 should have done... so I approve.

[Rorschachinstein]

So we change the colors as well right?

Having your companions travel in all black would be pretty pimp.

[n0na90]

I think this is a great example of taking what was good in both DA 1 and DA 2, leaving what was bad in both, and bundling it up to become something greater. I like the idea a lot, and if Bioware can do this with more issues than just companion equipment then DA 3 could really be a huge comeback. Looking forward to hearing more

[BomberJR]

Meh...If I put a suit of plate on my mage, it should look the same as if I put it on my fighter. It's a suit of plate. I get that some people like the pretty mystical morphing armour, but it's very strange. Sure, putting the same suit on a dwarf and an elf should be almost impossible as well, but it doesn't ask for the imaginative leap that morph armour does.

Plus, I agree with an earlier post about plate on a mage. If I want to do it, let me. I loved getting the arcane warrior spec so I could get some armour on my mage and drop the stupid looking robes!

[Maria Caliban]

Weltenschlange wrote...

Apologies if this has been brought up before but I don't think that the main problem in DA2 regarding follower armor was the fact that you couldn't change their appearance by equipping them with new armor.
IMO the actual problem was that you simply couldn't give them any armor at all.
I would have been perfectly fine with a system where for example having Isabella wear the nice enchanted leathers I just found but can't use would have only changed her stats but not her appearance.
I can't imagine how such a system would have cost more resources than the underwhelming armor upgrades we got instead.

Anyway, the new system as described in the blog sounds great. Although to me it seems as if you would need even more resources for that compared to the one in Origins. Maybe I misunderstood the description?

Mike suggested such a system after DA II came out and received mostly negative feedback from people who disliked the iconic outfits. For lots of people, it is about changing the way companions look.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Weltenschlange wrote...

Apologies if this has been brought up before but I don't think that the main problem in DA2 regarding follower armor was the fact that you couldn't change their appearance by equipping them with new armor.
IMO the actual problem was that you simply couldn't give them any armor at all.
I would have been perfectly fine with a system where for example having Isabella wear the nice enchanted leathers I just found but can't use would have only changed her stats but not her appearance.
I can't imagine how such a system would have cost more resources than the underwhelming armor upgrades we got instead.

Anyway, the new system as described in the blog sounds great. Although to me it seems as if you would need even more resources for that compared to the one in Origins. Maybe I misunderstood the description?

Mike suggested such a system after DA II came out and received mostly negative feedback from people who disliked the iconic outfits. For lots of people, it is about changing the way companions look.

I still think that's the system Mike described for DA2 before DA2's release.  And then DA2 didn't have it.

At the time, I thought that would be a good system, but having played with fixed apperances in DA2 I found I really didn't like them, so having visual representation of equipped gear apperas to be necessary for my enjoyment.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 23 avril 2012 - 04:50 .

[Shadow Warior]

I really like the idea to customize the appearance of my companions and to still maintain their unique look. Its a step in the right direction.
Hopefully there will be a sistem that allows the player to upgrade\\level up a piece of armor because if not then there will have to be many sets of armor in each act.

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Okay, let me put this out here:

• Suppose armor was purely stat dependant, not class. You need X strength to wear this mail, or what have you.
  
  
  
• We make sure that works with the player, but if you go "out of class" on a follower, it looks "okay" but not as one-to-one as if you stuck with the intended class.
  
  
  
  
• So: You take a bunch of strength with your mage, and you move plate onto your mage. His armor looks pretty "heavy" but doesn't look necessarily like plate. It still has all the stats that platemail has, though.
  
  
  
  
• If you moved that armor onto a warrior, it would look closer to how it looks on your player. (Since you'd be back in the expected space for that character's class)

Better? Worse? I ask because something like this might very well be possible.

Regarding Mike´s comment if armor was only stat dependent; Might work, but if for example you where to find some robes and you were to equip them to a warrior, that to me would look(could look) sily, so some class restrictions should be kept.
Also heavy armor like plate; rogues and mages should require less strength than a warrior, since strength isnt as useful to them as it is to a warrior, or just focus on constitution.

Thats what I think, hope it helps

Modifié par Shadow Warior, 24 avril 2012 - 12:21 .

[freyafolk]

First of all, it's gratifying to see that the dev team is making real efforts to incorporate fan feedback on this issue. Personally, I think a compromise between customisation and companion distinctiveness is a fair goal.

However, it does raise a couple of questions (not had time to read every post so apologies for any potential repetition).

1) Will the default appearance be the base model (like in DA2) or will that be underwear (as in DAO)? It would be nice to able to change casual clothes as well as battle attire.

2) Are those comic-style pictures (in D Gaider's article) merely representative or indicative of the art direction for DA3? If the latter, I would plead against this. Cartoony visuals and oversized weapons (hate them soooo much) are too common in RPGs as it is. One of the things that initially appealed to me about DAO is that it had a more film-like aesthetic and I was sad to see that changed in DA2. Maybe I'm a minority but if I'm not I hope bioware will take note of this feedback as they have done with companion customisation.