787 réponses à ce sujet

[MrCrabby]

Double post...please delete.

Modifié par MrCrabby, 14 juillet 2012 - 08:57 .

[MrCrabby]

TonberryFeye wrote...

I'm sorry, but I just want to laugh out loud at the idea that "the party all looked the same." Just how many Qunari do any of you remember seeing equipped with the Armour of the Legion? Exactly how many suits of Warden Commander Armour are there? Is there a shop in Antiva that sells golden royal armour?

At no point did I feel that my characters in origins look too much like NPCs, or too much like each other. In fact, one of the goals of my current playthrough is to carry it over to Awakening so I can have the Warden and Oghren both in Armour of the Legion, with Sigrun (sp?) in Legion Scout Armour - what an epic sight that will be!

I think Bioware have forgotten that having a uniform is actually appealing...

I don't think it's bad to want a more individualized look. In DA:O swapping armour was basically screwing a head on the same generic body. The trick is to find a way to allow robust customization that doesn't create a nightmare for the art department.

[Yrkoon]

Did I miss something here? Since when is it the fanbase's job to coddle the art department? And when did our standards drop so low that we're now totally ok to just let the game decide what our companions wear instead of us?

Screw that. I want Origins' level of customization WITH DA2's level of unique armor meshes and body types.. That's right. I demand best of both worlds, as the CEO of Bioware Promised us we'd get.   Not some cheap compromise that's being pushed upon us due to laziness.   Yeah, that means the art department and the cutscene creators have to work a little harder and  start thinking a little more ambitiously. Perish the thought.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 14 juillet 2012 - 06:54 .

[Gotholhorakh]

I felt that the nonsplanation of what was wrong with Origins' armor was flimsy rationalization at best.

What are we, stupid? Where was this phantom host who wanted DA:O's armor customization to be more limited when DA:O was the new game?

Did they ever exist? Did they hell.

Yrkoon wrote...

Did I miss something here? Since when is it the fanbase's job to coddle the art department? And when did our standards drop so low that we're now totally ok to just let the game decide what our companions wear instead of us?

Screw that. I want Origins' level of customization WITH DA2's level of unique armor meshes and body types.. That's right. I demand best of both worlds, as the CEO of Bioware Promised us we'd get.   Not some cheap compromise that's being pushed upon us due to laziness.   Yeah, that means the art department and the cutscene creators have to work a little harder and  start thinking a little more ambitiously. Perish the thought.

...wtf, are you suggesting that a company should service what its customers want if it expects them to pay money for the product?

That's just crazy talk.

MrCrabby wrote...
Considering your earlier statement: " I
think the big key is to not adjust 180 degrees again, because we've done
this." says pretty much everything. They key is not to give your
customers what they want but to stubbornly cling to your poor design
choices.

I am a film director, (another creative industry) and
we firmly believe you don't crap where you eat. It seems to me Bioware
and EA have been crapping on their plates for a few years now. You
deliberately put out a product with changes no one asked for, and then
acted surprised, (along with the rest of Bioware and EA) when the fans
revolted. Even when many of us told you prior to release we hated them,
and defended them long after your sales plummeted and the overwhelming
negative reaction from everyone who is not a paid video game reviewer.

I think this kind of behavior is possibly about corporate culture, people in management needing to make changes to demonstrate they're visionary or worth their pay, then sticking to their mistakes because holding hands up to mistakes can destroy your career.

Sometime in the icy glare of executive scrutiny, people smile and nod when their peers defend their own mistakes without searching questions because they've all got their own skeletons in closets, and so you get this tornado of misinformation and denial.

The important thing to understand about this behavior is that nobody's actually setting out to do their job badly, or to mess anything up, nobody is conspiring in any negative way - it just kind of snowballs, even when people are in earnest.

Seen it play out in various contexts, that one (which is why it strikes me how much EA's behavior looks like the same thing). I don't know, it may or may not be the case there.

re: the film industry - you certainly find this phenomenon in Hollywood.

I have played some outstanding EA products, but have also seen them - time and time again - take a much-loved game franchise, gut it, make it look shiny for the screenshots and generally do just enough to get you to buy it, then back off at 1000mph from customer dissatisfaction.

We can imagine (but don't know) that in board rooms somewhere, smiling and nodding and group denial have been happening about the Command & Conquers of this world. If so I suspect it's unhappy circumstance, not a grand conspiracy to cash in and be damned. That wouldn't make any business sense.

I'm hoping that admissions from EA of their mistakes mean this will slow down a bit and they can fix the problems. Which would be best for EA and stakeholders and gamers alike.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 14 juillet 2012 - 01:08 .

[hero 2]

Gotholhorakh wrote...

I'm hoping that admissions from EA of their mistakes mean this will slow down a bit and they can fix the problems. Which would be best for EA and stakeholders and gamers alike.

I think people have different opinions on the "mistakes" you describe. For one, I don't believe that this minority fanboi forum is representative of the people who played the game. Sure, I felt the game has little niggles all over the place, but for the most part, it's very entertaining. So to assume that there are people within the company who aren't acknowledging mistakes that don't necessarily exist (depending on your perspective) is somewhat ridiculous.

Modifié par hero 2, 15 juillet 2012 - 10:22 .

[Yrkoon]

From EA's perspective what matters is the people who *didn't* play the game. Didn't buy it after the demo. Didn't waste their money after the unmistakably bad word of mouth that reverberated throughout the entire gaming industry shortly after DA2's release. You can't ignore this. You can't pretend that DA2 didn't sell half as well as its predicessor, and that this forum is just some bizzare freakish anomoly, not representitive of the public in general.

DA2 is something broken. Sticking your head in the sand and pretending that it's not, just because *you* thought it was "Awesomesause!" doesn't change this fact. Thankfully, everything we've heard from Ray Muzyka on down suggests that Bioware is fully aware of all the well documented and frequently discussed mistakes that  brought the entire game down.

And from what *I* know about Bioware, they will bend over backwards, to the point of over-fixing, to address these flaws/mistakes.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 15 juillet 2012 - 11:30 .

[Catlana]

labargegrrrl wrote...

hussey 92 wrote...

labargegrrrl wrote...

i don't want to worry about f*ing micromanaging armor again.

 
Then maybe RPG's arn't for you:whistle:

or maybe i'd rather spend my time focusing on actual RPG elements?  like battles or dialogue or what i think my character should be rescuing kittens from trees or...

Everybody has an opinion. I can respect that you are not interested in equipment as much as character. Anyway, the article is pretty interesting. 

[Gotholhorakh]

hero 2 wrote...

Gotholhorakh wrote...

I'm hoping that admissions from EA of their mistakes mean this will slow down a bit and they can fix the problems. Which would be best for EA and stakeholders and gamers alike.

I think people have different opinions on the "mistakes" you describe. For one, I don't believe that this minority fanboi forum is representative of the people who played the game. Sure, I felt the game has little niggles all over the place, but for the most part, it's very entertaining. So to assume that there are people within the company who aren't acknowledging mistakes that don't necessarily exist (depending on your perspective) is somewhat ridiculous.

In the context of the post I was responding to, re: crapping where you eat as compared to film and whether there is hope of this stopping - one would have to be delusional to think there haven't been mistakes.

Which is why they Have In Fact Been Acknowledged By EA And Its Employees (long after the fact) and we might take hope from that.

The context you are talking about (whether there were mistakes made with DA2) is somewhat narrower, so I think it's not really a reasonable criticism of my point.

In answer to that, however - if you feel there were no mistakes made with DA2, that you should even put "mistakes" in quotes because it's just such an outlandish notion, well I think you can take relativism too far - but you are perfectly entitled to be wrong. In my opinion.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 16 juillet 2012 - 08:24 .

[Megavice]

I dont get what some people have against class restrictions..i am seriously, how easy do you want a game to be and do you even want a game at all? class restrictions is what makes each and every class unique, a rogue can't wear plate armour and he shouldn't and you know what? if your rogue could do that he still wouldn't as i am  sure that wouldn't help him out in being a rogue in anyway. class restrictions is what gives the game an added level of replayability. If people dont want to suffer for the choices they made in deciding to pick a mage instead of a fighter and then being forced to wear strictly robes and the like should really not be playing a cRPG lol. It's about advantages and disadvantages and a mage not being able to wear armour or a theif being able to wear only leather is a disadvantage, it helps in balancing the game and gives each class a more distinct feel to them rather than some just generic character. I mean you might as well go the full hog and get rid of classes altogether.

Also, follower customization? I have no problem putting a specific kind of armour on my character and that character losing their orginal apperance. A cool thing to do is to look different and a character shouldn't be defined by how they look. Spend more time actually developing your characters rather than churning out something that looks pretty on the outside but there isn't much going on in the inside. Each and  every armour had a special look in the game and i dont really remember in any game having characters who all wore the same piece of armour and if i did find myself in a situation like that, i wouldn't be bothered by it.

Besides when you reach the endding of a game, having that awesome armour where your party looks badass helps and i'd rather have that than a bunch of characters looking the same with mild changes at most and me starting to wonder if they wash.

[Amycus89]

Megavice wrote...

I dont get what some people have against class restrictions..i am seriously, how easy do you want a game to be and do you even want a game at all? class restrictions is what makes each and every class unique, 

You have got it all wrong, people want to get rid of class restrictions on loot so they can try to find the best class with trial and error, and customize their character to truly be their own. As opposed to how it was in DA2, where you just pic the 2 stats obviously assoicated with your class and ignore the rest, leading to that everyone with the same class has pretty much the same build in stats, the same loot, with the only difference being the chosen talents. It is the class restrictions that severly limit your options, and thus dumbs the game down. How hard is it to make a character build, when you only have one set path to make it?

Want a warrior? Give it heavy armor and dump stats into vitality and strength.
Want a rogue? Give it light armor and dump stats into dexterity and cunning
Want a mage? Give it robes and dumb stats into magic and wisdom.
Oh wait, you didn't need these tips, because the game itself is forcing you to make these "choices". It literally refuses a class to wear differently than stated above, and if you dump your stats differently you won't be able to wear the equipment for your current level.

Of course, there should be incentives as well as disincentives to wear heavy or light armor depending on your class. Like a heavy armor might reduce your dexterity while wearing it to not take any points you put into dexterity into account that is higher than 20 (that is, your warrior has 22 DEX, but when wearing the specific armor his "active" dexterity is reduced to 20. If his stats is 16 DEX however, his dexterity will remain unchanged while wearing it), but obviously gives you more protection. The point is that the option should still be there to open up for less common builds. Giving more options is always better. "wasting" stat points into strength for my mage to wear hevy armor might be a really stupid choice, but if I manage to find a build and playing style that works for it, let me.

...plus that it doesnt make sense when a strong warrior can't wear light armor no matter what. So if I get robbed of all my clothes, I will have to continue running around naked despite having found a light armor that is lying unused in my inventory?

[Endurium]

I like this and I hope to see it in the initial release of the game.

This looks like Diablo 2's armor system taken a step or two further (more granularity, greater variety). In that game any class could don a piece of gear and change their armor's appearance, but still retain their class appearance.

Modifié par Endurium, 19 juillet 2012 - 08:49 .

[Cadeym]

Please just make sure that we can actually find items that will match eachother. There is nothing worse than when the boots and gloves seem to not quite fit the rest... or the other way around.

[Sealy]

Lol, I love that comic. The new customization sounds good to me!

[M3_RedLionAle]

Just read through the blog post, and I like this idea. I really feel like just having some ability to change the way companions look is something games like these need. That being said, also avoiding the "everyone looking generic" problem that popped up in DA:O is important, as well. This idea seems to be a very effective way to find the middle ground. I also like the idea of characters having "ultimate armors" specific to them, though. Like how Hawke had the Mantle of the Champion... If each companion had one set of armor built just for them (in addition to their own versions of plate mail, chain mail, etc, etc), that'd be nice as well. I may just be one of those people who likes the idea of everyone in RPGs having ultimate weapons and armors, though. lol

[ianvillan]

M3_RedLionAle wrote...

Just read through the blog post, and I like this idea. I really feel like just having some ability to change the way companions look is something games like these need. That being said, also avoiding the "everyone looking generic" problem that popped up in DA:O is important, as well. This idea seems to be a very effective way to find the middle ground. I also like the idea of characters having "ultimate armors" specific to them, though. Like how Hawke had the Mantle of the Champion... If each companion had one set of armor built just for them (in addition to their own versions of plate mail, chain mail, etc, etc), that'd be nice as well. I may just be one of those people who likes the idea of everyone in RPGs having ultimate weapons and armors, though. lol

I would not be happy with having a ultimate armour for a companion, because it means that if you stat your companion differently then the armour is useless for you.

[Little Princess Peach]

I like this it's almost like having maerged dao and da2 armor creations together.
And thank you very much for removing the factor of having useless armor in thy Inventory that annoyed the pixeles out of my Hawke

[Kimihiko]

I actually love the idea it reminds me to Assassins Creed, you can put Ezio Auditore an armor and change it for new sets but the original appearance of the character never change, why? because thats what make him Ezio the assassin.

So yes! please go to the end with this idea I think that the personality of the companions are essential in a RPG where you depend of your party members so much and this little changes of the appearance I think that are enough.

(In DAO Morrigan using a chantry robe? the only idea of suggest  her ...I can see the future and see me on fire, so I never change her clothes without them it was not Morrigan anymore.)

I hope that now that I see that you are working really hard for make a better game and asking the opinion of the players directly ,that the result of the concept art and the in game result match,why I am saying this? well only one word "Elves" or like a call them "rat goblins prototype" not trying to offend anyone is my personal opinion as a player and fan of Dragon Age. Love the new qunaries (Arishok ) hate elves...I am only suggesting using a reference...maybe something more DAO-The Witcher 2 elves? will be awesome.

Keep the good work! can not wait for news of DA3!

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

It's an okay idea but far from original. I would rather see more customization options for the player and if NPCs don't like certain items, make them complain about having to use them. Or don't make them complain, either way is fine with me. This isn't the biggest issue with a potential DA 3 title for me, but it could make for aesthetic annoyances. I'm all for NPCs having a prefered "look" to them, but it's annoying when it's forced on the player because of a lack of game design time/funds resulting in fewer armor model designs.

[AbsoluteApril]

(that tunic comic above is great!)

I'm excited about this, I think it is a good compromise between customization and 'iconic looks'. Since it's evident BioWare is sticking with iconic looks, I can accept this (and see the benefit from a cosplay perspective).

As far as the examples given, maybe it's the angle or light? but those silver chest pieces don't look anything alike to me. One is large, thick, silver with chevron design, the other is thin, curved with vine type design and is green? I would expect the color and designs to remain the same with the shape changing depending on who equiped it.

Regardless, Larius and Cassandra look fantastic.
ok... just wishful thinking perhaps.

Kimihiko wrote...
(... so I never change her clothes without them it was not Morrigan anymore.)

really? I don't know.. it still looks like Morrigan in the back there to me

 
just teasing! 

Modifié par AbsoluteApril, 07 août 2012 - 05:27 .

[hussey 92]

I like how Borderlands 2 is doing it (even if it's just for cosmetics)

http://www.cinemable...Girl-44624.html

[Asch Lavigne]

Considering BioWare could've said "You know what people, too bad, Deal with it." about the DAII complaints, but they didn't. They improved DAII in the DLC with things fans wanted, and are giving us a compromise between what fans want and what they want with the new armor system.

Besides, you change your clothes but still have a style. What's wrong with the characters having one too? Some armor and weapons just don't fit the characters.

Modifié par Asch Lavigne, 07 août 2012 - 06:06 .

[hussey 92]

Asch Lavigne wrote...

Considering BioWare could've said "You know what people, too bad, Deal with it." about the DAII complaints, 

Yes they could have said that, and then watched their fanbase disappear.  

[zyntifox]

Asch Lavigne wrote...

Considering BioWare could've said "You know what people, too bad, Deal with it." about the DAII complaints, but they didn't. They improved DAII in the DLC with things fans wanted, and are giving us a compromise between what fans want and what they want with the new armor system.

Besides, you change your clothes but still have a style. What's wrong with the characters having one too? Some armor and weapons just don't fit the characters.

And they introduced things such as auto-dialogue banter in the DLC which made the whole experience even worse. I like the look of an armor to be consistent whether it is on party member A or B. A compromise with the fans would be having both armor systems. Have one of those unique looking armors that you can upgrade that you can choose to wear or not.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

I like pizza, and I like ice cream. That doesn't mean you should combine the two. Compromise is okay, but when it screws a series' aesthetics and gameplay beyond what is expected by fans of the original launch title, don't expect the whole fanbase to sit back and blindly applaud like a bunch of love-stricken brain dead zombies.

[Miraider]

I like this idea, but only for regular armor types. Unique armors should look the same on anyone