221 réponses à ce sujet

[ahandsomeshark]

ajm317 wrote...

A point that hasn't been mentioned yet is that I'm sure Bioware felt they needed to have at least a couple human squadmates. Developers, both in games and in movies, get very hung up on how people supposedly can't relate with aliens and robots. The main character is always human, and he always needs at least a couple human support characters.

Vega and VS are it. Wrex and Grunt are about as far from human as you can get. Throw in the fact that they needed a soldier character who was guaranteed to be alive and their only real option was to create a new human soldier.

Thus Vega.

like Jack, Jacob, Miranda, Zaeed, Kasumi?

[ajm317]

ahandsomeshark wrote...

ajm317 wrote...

A point that hasn't been mentioned yet is that I'm sure Bioware felt they needed to have at least a couple human squadmates. Developers, both in games and in movies, get very hung up on how people supposedly can't relate with aliens and robots. The main character is always human, and he always needs at least a couple human support characters.

Vega and VS are it. Wrex and Grunt are about as far from human as you can get. Throw in the fact that they needed a soldier character who was guaranteed to be alive and their only real option was to create a new human soldier.

Thus Vega.

like Jack, Jacob, Miranda, Zaeed, Kasumi?

All could be dead.  As I said, they also needed a soldier who was guaranteed alive, in addition to a human.

Modifié par ajm317, 14 avril 2012 - 12:49 .

[ahandsomeshark]

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

ShepardTheHopeful wrote...

The answer is simple any character you had the option to kill couldn't be a character in 3.

Don't get me wrong I love Wrex more than anyone and would've rather had him than Grunt and i'm especially disappointed that I didn't have a Krogan in my Squad, or a Salarian, Mordin, Wrex, and Tali were my favorite three characters in the game after all.

But it makes sense if you kill Wrex on Virimir of course you can't play him. The game was made to consider that expectation and cameo is the only real solution.

Same for Ash and Kaiden but you always get one over the other so it's easier to program. You also give them similar parts and they both end up in the Hospital so a lot of their writing is similar and easy to put in.

Same goes for people dying in ME2 you're playing with the assumption that Grunt etc could either live or die, which is why they were also programmed as cameo, the game can move on with or without them but if they're party squad members it's harder to not include them should they not be alive at the time.

Just my opinion. Who knows what Bioware was thinking.

You're probalby right. I seem to remember that justification being used during ME2's development for the VS I think. "Well we don't want to develop content some people will never see. " Well then you never should have created series supposedly based on player choice. Don't promise us impact if you're never going to deliver.

yeah plus you could have skipped all the post Horizon squad mates and they didn't use that as an excuse for not including them.

Also doesn't not wanting to develop content some people will never see directly conflict with the entire idea of DLC?

[ahandsomeshark]

Dendio1 wrote...

VEGA is there to have the past events of the trilogy explained to him. New players will catch up on the lore through interactions with vega. Also he can cook!

when do you actually explain anything to him?
Also they could have done all of this with a simple trial in the beginning.

[ahandsomeshark]

Shajar wrote...

Vega was for new players, and Wrex is dead by default in ME2, and PS3 users cant play ME1.
Not that i hate Vega, but really boring and no emotional feeling on him. Wrex was really cool, but was needed on Tuchanka

ps3 users got the comic for free. they can keep wrex alive.

[ahandsomeshark]

ajm317 wrote...

ahandsomeshark wrote...

ajm317 wrote...

A point that hasn't been mentioned yet is that I'm sure Bioware felt they needed to have at least a couple human squadmates. Developers, both in games and in movies, get very hung up on how people supposedly can't relate with aliens and robots. The main character is always human, and he always needs at least a couple human support characters.

Vega and VS are it. Wrex and Grunt are about as far from human as you can get. Throw in the fact that they needed a soldier character who was guaranteed to be alive and their only real option was to create a new human soldier.

Thus Vega.

like Jack, Jacob, Miranda, Zaeed, Kasumi?

All could be dead.  As I said, they also needed a soldier who was guaranteed alive, in addition to a human.

Miranda and Jacob are almost impossible to kill. I imagine the percentage of imported games with both of them dead is in the single digits.

[Menethra]

Wrex wouldn't of made much sense to be a squad member, i love wrex aswell but his attention was elsewhere as mass effect 2 should of taught you. Someone along the lines of Grunt would of made more sense especially if you had saved the rachni queen during the mission.

[Shaoken]

It boils down to the fact that Wrex could be dead in player's save, Wreav is not going to join Shepard period, and Grunt can be dead as well. You already have the possiblity of being down two potential squadmates at the start of the game, why reduce you by a potential third squadmate?

Besides, Wrex is too busy leading the Krogan and he even tells you in the second game that requires his full attention in case one of the clan leaders decides to get uppidy and try something. That's one thing ME3 got right this game; your previous squadmates do have lives outside of you and they can be busy with their problems or doing their own thing. Grunt got a command of a company, and even if most of them are wiped out he still has a responsiblity to the rest of them.

I mean hell if I was out of contact with a friend for six months, and in that time got new responsiblities I wouldn't just drop all of that the second my friend came back and asked me to join him.

[SilentK]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Well there's a lore explanation and a game design explanation.

The lore explanation is that Wrex is the leader of an entire species and thus has other responsibilities to consider. He can't exactly drop his position as the head of Clan Urdnot, the dominant clan on Tuchanka, any more than Shepard can drop attempting to unite the galaxy to stop the Reapers.

The game design explanation(s) is basically that Wrex could be dead and Bioware needed to have a certain number and variety of squadmates to avoid needlessly hindering the player.

If Wrex is dead, would that mean that you get Wreav? I wouldn't think so, because Wreav would have no reason to help you at all. So if you killed Wrex in ME1, that would mean you don't have a Soldier class squadmate unless you saved Ashley.

If that were the case, that would be a hindrance for several classes of player.

In Mass Effect 3 there are set squadmates and variable squadmates. EDI, Liara, and James Vega are in everyone's game. They cannot be killed. That means you have a tech squadmate, a biotic, and a soldier at all times. You can see how intentional this situation is I think.

However if you suddenly make Vega Wrex and if Wrex is variable, you would no longer have that trinity of classes.

Well done    =)    that was much better than my poor explanation. Jupp, pretty much this I would say. Bonus for me because I love him.

[ajm317]

ahandsomeshark wrote...

ajm317 wrote...

ahandsomeshark wrote...

ajm317 wrote...

A point that hasn't been mentioned yet is that I'm sure Bioware felt they needed to have at least a couple human squadmates. Developers, both in games and in movies, get very hung up on how people supposedly can't relate with aliens and robots. The main character is always human, and he always needs at least a couple human support characters.

Vega and VS are it. Wrex and Grunt are about as far from human as you can get. Throw in the fact that they needed a soldier character who was guaranteed to be alive and their only real option was to create a new human soldier.

Thus Vega.

like Jack, Jacob, Miranda, Zaeed, Kasumi?

All could be dead.  As I said, they also needed a soldier who was guaranteed alive, in addition to a human.

Miranda and Jacob are almost impossible to kill. I imagine the percentage of imported games with both of them dead is in the single digits.

Bioware isn't going to make a design decision to the effect of "Oh well, we only screwed 9% of the players, who cares?"

[ahandsomeshark]

ajm317 wrote...

ahandsomeshark wrote...

ajm317 wrote...

ahandsomeshark wrote...

ajm317 wrote...

A point that hasn't been mentioned yet is that I'm sure Bioware felt they needed to have at least a couple human squadmates. Developers, both in games and in movies, get very hung up on how people supposedly can't relate with aliens and robots. The main character is always human, and he always needs at least a couple human support characters.

Vega and VS are it. Wrex and Grunt are about as far from human as you can get. Throw in the fact that they needed a soldier character who was guaranteed to be alive and their only real option was to create a new human soldier.

Thus Vega.

like Jack, Jacob, Miranda, Zaeed, Kasumi?

All could be dead.  As I said, they also needed a soldier who was guaranteed alive, in addition to a human.

Miranda and Jacob are almost impossible to kill. I imagine the percentage of imported games with both of them dead is in the single digits.

Bioware isn't going to make a design decision to the effect of "Oh well, we only screwed 9% of the players, who cares?"

um they did with anyone who had Garrus or Tali dead and they were much easier to get killed so that's pretty much factually incorrect.

[ajm317]

ahandsomeshark wrote...

um they did with anyone who had Garrus or Tali dead and they were much easier to get killed so that's pretty much factually incorrect.

You're being dense.

The game needs:

1.  A soldier who is gauranteed alive.  (Vega)
2.  An engineer who is gauranteed alive.  (EDI)
3.  A biotic who is gauranteed alive. (Liara)

Everyone else is icing on the cake.  Garrus and Tali are nice, but you're not screwed from a gameplay standpoint if they're dead.

Modifié par ajm317, 14 avril 2012 - 01:31 .

[veramis]

James Vega must be Walters' idea of a good character.

[SilentK]

ajm317 wrote...

Bioware isn't going to make a design decision to the effect of "Oh well, we only screwed 9% of the players, who cares?"

I take it that you haven't romanced Jacob with a FemShep then...

We got screwed big time, and not in the fun way   

[TexasToast712]

 Grunt was a perfect fit for a ME3 squadmate. Instead we got Vega. Vega was cool but he ain't no Krogan. If Grunt died in ME2 then well too bad, you lose a squadmate for ME3.

Modifié par TexasToast712, 14 avril 2012 - 01:35 .

[Shaoken]

veramis wrote...

James Vega must be Walters' idea of a good character.

Well considering the fact that he is not hated by the majority of the fanbase, I'd say he was a good character.

[dreman9999]

ahandsomeshark wrote...

I like to think Vega, Cortez and Traynor were introduced because they finally realized it was weird to have more aliens than brown people in the series.

Jacob is not a good repesentative of use brown people...We need more like Anderson.:innocent:

[ajm317]

SilentK wrote...

ajm317 wrote...

Bioware isn't going to make a design decision to the effect of "Oh well, we only screwed 9% of the players, who cares?"

I take it that you haven't romanced Jacob with a FemShep then...

We got screwed big time, and not in the fun way   

I'm talking gameplay, not plot/romance.

You need one of each of the three types of characters for balanced gameplay.  You don't need Jacob to love you for that.

Besides, why would you romance Jacob?  Guy is dull as a box of rocks.

Modifié par ajm317, 14 avril 2012 - 01:36 .

[TomY90]

the reason we got Vega was that he is meant to give the perspective of new comers to the series. (unfortunately cannot say about him I only had him in the squad when he was compulsory.

[Elite Midget]

Wrex can die and he was pushed into Leadership role.

[EnerPrime]

I never played ME1, so I never much cared for Wrex and the Krogan. Wrex is nothing but a background charcter to me, and Grunt seemed to be nothing but "I like violence and eating things' 90% of the time. And I don't really find Vega boring or generic at all. He strikes me as what a younger Shepard would be like, a normal Marine who is suddenly thrown in way over his head. Honestly, I like him better than every Krogan in the game except Bakara.

[Dragoni89]

Seriously some people are arguing against having more squad makes. Vega huam soldier. so what? Brings nothing into the story. If they really wanted a human, they should have a another Asian infiltrator/biotec. Could be the guy trying to hunt down Kai leng for killing /betraying the master. You know how the asian plot lines usually go. adds to the story another mission.

[ahandsomeshark]

dreman9999 wrote...

ahandsomeshark wrote...

I like to think Vega, Cortez and Traynor were introduced because they finally realized it was weird to have more aliens than brown people in the series.

Jacob is not a good repesentative of use brown people...We need more like Anderson.:innocent:

I just wish they had had Jacob and Anderson randomely throw in slang in their speech, so I wouldn't forget they were ethnic. it was super helpful with Vega.

[ahandsomeshark]

Dragoni89 wrote...

Seriously some people are arguing against having more squad makes. Vega huam soldier. so what? Brings nothing into the story. If they really wanted a human, they should have a another Asian infiltrator/biotec. Could be the guy trying to hunt down Kai leng for killing /betraying the master. You know how the asian plot lines usually go. adds to the story another mission.

I would have killed for a thane like character (biotic+ long range weapons)